Is action an illusion ?

[kenny r]

we can, and do, and it is nice.

nic, I knew you would chose deluded!

[RomanHD]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

What you need to understand that according to quantum physics, the inserted explanation is probably wrong. For actually, quantum physics, at the very least, does suggest that:

- you're mostly empty space, rapidly blinking in and out of existence

- you're composed of the same sub-atomic particles as the rest of the universe

- those sub-atomic particles can communicate and interact with each other faster than the speed of light

- something happening in your bedroom can immediately affect something happening on the other side of the country, or planet, or for that matter, the solar system

- consciousness may indeed be required to create matter

- things that can happen in the future can indeed determine the things that happened in the past

- quantum physics does have macroscopic effects (ie the events at the subatomic level can indeed affect much, much larger systems)

- there are different dimensions and alternate realities

I agree with most of this, but I would like to see evidence for the bold bit. Also, there MIGHT be different dimensions and alternate realities - we can't say for sure that there are. Or can we?

[RomanHD]

Originally Posted by nicbrahms

And thank you, the rest of you beautiful people for coming to my defense in my absence, actually I was away burping out another universe. Well I didn't say I wasn't busy.

Keep the faith people, the rapture is coming and I know who I am taking. Just kidding, you can all come except Romanhd and mikej can push the bus with us in it. Its a long way boys so get your energy built up and pack spare underpants, you know what the effort of pushing can do.

Muah!

So the strategy now is: "confuse them so they leave"?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by RomanHD

I agree with most of this, but I would like to see evidence for the bold bit.

Some examples.

How Noise Can Help Quantum Entanglement: Scientific American

Everywhere in a Flash: The Quantum Physics of Photosynthesis | Wired Science | Wired.com

Quantum Entanglement Visible to the Naked Eye | Wired Science | Wired.com

Also, there MIGHT be different dimensions and alternate realities - we can't say for sure that there are. Or can we?

Basically, there is a certain well-known experiment in quantum physics. To explain it, quantum physicists have come up with about half a dozen different theories.

One of them is known as the Many Worlds Interpretation, by Hugh Everitt, which says that reality keeps splitting again and again into different dimensions and alternate realities.

All the other theories yield a very strange picture of reality too, one which tells you that the skeptics' usual description of reality is just wrong.

[RomanHD]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Quantum Entanglement Visible to the Naked Eye | Wired Science | Wired.com

Originally Posted by Wired

After attempting to entangle the superconducting circuits, Martinis and his team measured the directions of the currents 34.1 million times. When one current flowed clockwise (measured as a 0), the team found, the other flowed counterclockwise (measured as a 1) with very high probability. So the two were linked in a way that only quantum mechanics could explain.

Very high probability? I thought than it should be more like 100% than very high probability...

Anyway, thanks for the interesting links, ALG. Hope we're not getting too off-topic here.

[nowgirl]

Originally Posted by RomanHD

So, if a pedestrian jumps in front of your car while you're cruising at 60 MPH, will the action of braking be a thought?

It will be thought and action. Essentially there is no difference between the two, except that naming them makes it so.

It seems to me that the issue here comes into compartmentalization. People (the ego specifically---look I just compartmentalized the compartmentalization!) like to compartmentalize things, like thoughts and actions and speech into their neat little boxes, the same way we either like to or just need to see ourselves as separate. Even once you begin to understand you're not actually separate and that thoughts/actions/speech aren't actually separate, it's hard to REALLY believe that (at least I think so; kudos to anyone who can truly, truly do it -- and then, I guess that'd be kudos to me too because separation is an illusion). Anyway, that's all like a zen koan. The way to truth lies through paradox because we've created a paradox to keep up the illusions of things like action, which add all the struggle and all the perceived "fun" to the world. Neither is more real and neither exists without the other.

Now, theoretically, you can try to completely overthrow all of this. That's what I think folks like Buddha meant by true enlightenment. If you could really accomplish things like truly getting anatta on a spiritual level, for instance and step away from the self and the table and the idea that actions and thoughts exist at all, as anything that can be named in words, then you probably would have to "elevate" to something else, because all of this would simply seem pointless. And it wouldn't be fun either. It would be peaceful, maybe, but it doesn't sound terribly amusing to most people. This illusion would have lost its capacity to inflict both suffering AND joy.

But, you can also theoretically try something else---and that's to take the path of joy and least resistance. That means to choose your own thoughts/speech/actions that WORK for you and bring you joy, rather than suffering. This does not eliminate suffering in the world, nor elevate you to the point beyond its grasp. It just makes it pointless. Once you really believe that suffering is pointless, you choose not to suffer. I think that's what most manifesting is about. Just my thought personally.

Thought is Action, and Action is Thought. The idea that they are separate is precisely the same as the idea that people are separate---it is needless human compartmentalization that serves to create our own illusion (or hologram) of the universe. We feel the need to put sequence to it and names to it because that's what we do. It's what gives us meaning in this realm. There's nothing right or wrong about it (nothing even true, really; just the way I see it). The only question that I think matters is whether or not what you believe works for you. I've never seen engaging in skepticism (about anything) actively work for anyone. That's not to say I'm never skeptical about anything (I suppose believing is just being skeptical about disbelief, in some way), but I don't like to dwell there, because it doesn't develop any fun or happiness for me. That said, skeptics are fantastic for affirming believers.

Anyway, this was a very long way of saying: Everything is the same thing, and everything separates into distinct compartmental illusions so we can act it out and have ourselves some fun or pain. Our choice. (Not sure if that made any sense, but it just kind of poured out. Very interesting prior discussion y'all had.)