Ego, Manifest NOW & Peace! HELP NEEDED!

[The Coronet]

Dear Forum,

Im really confused on some concepts that seem to make sense, yet sort of contradict each other! I would love some help on this if anyone has a suggestion.

Ive read a few books by Eckhart Tolley, the power of now, a new earth etc.

He says that to end suffering we have to live in the now, be fully present and egoless (which you are when you are so involved in the present.)

Secondly according to the secret

To manifest something we have to feel like we have whatever we want now first of all, then it will be drawn to us.

However the very process of manifesting requires us to be considering a future goal. All goal setting requires us to not be fully present cause I am thinking about how I want my future to be. If I truely follow the power of now, I will never set any goals. In fact I would probably stop doing anything because i would just stare into space observing without any judgement quite happily , peacefully observing my body rotting away and i eventually dieing of starvation. It is only future desires and listening to the demands of my body that cause me to move.

I thought about manifesting 'peace in my now' Surely the best thing I could manifest! If I really do this, I will not care to manifest anything because I will be at peace regardles of what I have and dont have. (and in a way isnt the secret saying you have to have this first before you can manifest anything?)

However according to manifesting rules, I should be more specific, (chose what will bring me this peace?) and also chose a date for this to occur. BUt nothing can really occur anytime other than NOW so that in itself is an illusion.

Lastly if Im to be honest what drives me to all these goals is it really ego? For example Id like to be a great breakdancer, but a large part of that is for the element of how cool it would look in front of other people. Does this desire ultimately cause me suffering because....

1. its assuimng that there is an objective reality, or at least that there is separation 2. I am my ego, 3 attention will bring me happiness I dont already have? 4. im doing something for myself????

I suppose what Im asking is this, should i give up on all my goals, forget about all future commitments and just fully commit to being present, or should I keep striving for all my dreams basically meaning that I am not fully present at all and being driven by an ego that wants things! Even if Im doing it to help others, that is also assuming that there are others, that need my help and that something has to happen in the future for us to all be better off! Or is there another solution that is in harmony with all these ideas?.

Sorry if my explanation is a bad, I hope it makes sense!

Thanks again for all your help and kindness

Caz

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by The Coronet

Dear Forum,

Im really confused on some concepts that seem to make sense, yet sort of contradict each other! I would love some help on this if anyone has a suggestion.

Ah, certainly.

Ive read a few books by Eckhart Tolley, the power of now, a new earth etc.

He says that to end suffering we have to live in the now, be fully present and egoless (which you are when you are so involved in the present.)

You have to understand that Eckhart Tolle is teaching a higher kind of spiritual truth. He's attempting to lay down a path to enlightenment.

Whereas Rhonda's "The Secret" is teaching you how to get that job; quit that smoking habit; earn more money; attract your lover; manifest your parking lot etc.

The above isn't meant to exalt Eckhart and diss Rhonda. They simply don't share the same purposes.

Secondly according to the secret

To manifest something we have to feel like we have whatever we want now first of all, then it will be drawn to us.

However the very process of manifesting requires us to be considering a future goal. All goal setting requires us to not be fully present cause I am thinking about how I want my future to be. If I truely follow the power of now, I will never set any goals.

This is an incorrect understanding. Tolle himself does not say that you need not plan for the future ("calendar time" - IIRC, that's the term he uses). What he says is that when you sit down to plan for the future, focus fully on your planning - that's how to be in the now.

In fact I would probably stop doing anything because i would just stare into space observing without any judgement quite happily , peacefully observing my body rotting away and i eventually dieing of starvation. It is only future desires and listening to the demands of my body that cause me to move.

It may be helpful for you to consider Deepak Chopra's phraseology. He talks about intention and attention. The attention should be in the now, but the intention goes to the future.

To put it less abstractly, suppose your intention is to win a gold medal in the 2008 Olympics. Your attention, however, should be in the now. For example, what can you do, now, to fulfil your intention? If you are training, now, then focus fully on your training. Be in the now.

I thought about manifesting 'peace in my now' Surely the best thing I could manifest! If I really do this, I will not care to manifest anything because I will be at peace regardles of what I have and dont have. (and in a way isnt the secret saying you have to have this first before you can manifest anything?)

Actually, analytical meditation in the Buddhist tradition is all about manifesting peace, love etc in the now. You may wish to google to find out more about this.

However according to manifesting rules, I should be more specific, (chose what will bring me this peace?) and also chose a date for this to occur.

You may be getting up mixed here.

Conventional goal-setting advice (ie no LOA) always tell you to fix a deadline, choose a date etc.

LOA/IM philosophies, however, differ on this point. For example, Abraham-Hicks, AFAIK, does not say that it's important to attach a deadline.

BUt nothing can really occur anytime other than NOW so that in itself is an illusion.

Then think of it as you manipulating the NOW into a form that you want.

Lastly if Im to be honest what drives me to all these goals is it really ego?

That depends on your goal.

For example Id like to be a great breakdancer, but a large part of that is for the element of how cool it would look in front of other people. Does this desire ultimately cause me suffering because....

1. its assuimng that there is an objective reality, or at least that there is separation 2. I am my ego, 3 attention will bring me happiness I dont already have? 4. im doing something for myself????

Consider two different philosophies.

In the Buddhist scheme of things, desire leads to suffering. This is because of the inherent tendency of the human mind to attach. We attach to the objects of our desire, failing to see that everything is impermanent, and everything we have must inevitably change and fall away in time.

In the Abraham-Hicks scheme of thing, desire leads to creation. We desire things, we think about them, and by the LOA, we create them. Furthermore we will always have new desires, therefore creation never stops. The meaning of it all is ultimately creation for its own sake, and creation is joyous.

Choose your preferred philosophy.

I suppose what Im asking is this, should i give up on all my goals, forget about all future commitments and just fully commit to being present, or should I keep striving for all my dreams basically meaning that I am not fully present at all and being driven by an ego that wants things!

Refer to earlier comment about intention and attention.

In practical terms, this is what you can do. Set your goals. Eg goals to be achieved in 5 years time, 1 year's time, in six months' time, by next month. Having set your goals, work towards them. When you work, focus on being present in the here & now.

Eg you wish to be a millionaire by 2010. Having set that goal, be in the now. What can you do now, to make that intention come true? Whatever it is, focus on that task fully, now.

If you have set goals in every major area of your life, eg family; career; finances; health; personal development; social contribution; hobbies; spiritual growth; relationships; etc, then in every moment of your waking life, there's probably something you can do towards one of these goals. Focus on that something. Be fully present in the now, when you do it.

Good luck.

[Margaret]

I think that the message is, set the goal then enjoy the journey towards it. If you read Thich Nhat Han, he believes in living in the Now, being fully present, and yet he came to the US during the VietNam war to plead with Congress to stop bombing Viet Nam. Obviously he had a goal while living in the present moment. I dont see anything really at odds here. We often take something simple and make it complicated.

[The Coronet]

What an awesome answer, thank you so much.

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

This is an incorrect understanding. Tolle himself does not say that you need not plan for the future ("calendar time" - IIRC, that's the term he uses). What he says is that when you sit down to plan for the future, focus fully on your planning - that's how to be in the now.

Its been a while since I read the Power of Now and now that you mention it I do remember him talking about calender time. Its a funny thing when you think about it, you cant not be in the Now its impossible but I suppose its all a matter of where you put your focus. Dreaming about a wonderful future is a nice experince to be having Now and if we didnt have the illusion of time, we could never experience this.

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

LOA/IM philosophies, however, differ on this point. For example, Abraham-Hicks, AFAIK, does not say that it's important to attach a deadline.

I will look into this further thanks!

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

In the Buddhist scheme of things, desire leads to suffering. This is because of the inherent tendency of the human mind to attach. We attach to the objects of our desire, failing to see that everything is impermanent, and everything we have must inevitably change and fall away in time.

In the Abraham-Hicks scheme of thing, desire leads to creation. We desire things, we think about them, and by the LOA, we create them. Furthermore we will always have new desires, therefore creation never stops. The meaning of it all is ultimately creation for its own sake, and creation is joyous.

Yes thats interesting because if the LOA really can means we can manifest ANYTHING then we could end suffering and keep our egos intact. We could just keep manifesting everything the ego wanted, all the things, recognition, eternal youth etc. Probably after a while it would get bored and give up!

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

In practical terms, this is what you can do. Set your goals. Eg goals to be achieved in 5 years time, 1 year's time, in six months' time, by next month. Having set your goals, work towards them. When you work, focus on being present in the here & now.

Eg you wish to be a millionaire by 2010. Having set that goal, be in the now. What can you do now, to make that intention come true? Whatever it is, focus on that task fully, now.

If you have set goals in every major area of your life, eg family; career; finances; health; personal development; social contribution; hobbies; spiritual growth; relationships; etc, then in every moment of your waking life, there's probably something you can do towards one of these goals. Focus on that something. Be fully present in the now, when you do it.

Great advice, thank you. It occured to me that actually all we ever need to do is Trust that everything will manifest for the greater good of all. Thats it, nothing else is needed.

Thanks for the comment margaret...I guess the only confusion is this...why set the goal in the first place, if everything we have and need is here now?

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by The Coronet

However the very process of manifesting requires us to be considering a future goal. All goal setting requires us to not be fully present cause I am thinking about how I want my future to be. If I truely follow the power of now, I will never set any goals. In fact I would probably stop doing anything because i would just stare into space observing without any judgement quite happily , peacefully observing my body rotting away and i eventually dieing of starvation. It is only future desires and listening to the demands of my body that cause me to move.

I too had this same problem understanding Tolle. After about a year of research I found that he got the concept of "Living in the Now" from a book called "A Course in Miracles" (ACIM). The problem is that while ACIM teaches that concept along with many many others, The Power of Now just teaches one concept. Therefore, it is, by itself, incomplete. It is because it's incomplete that it confuses people like you and me. ACIM teaches a whole bunch of stuff, and every person gets different lessons from it. Eckhart obviously needed that one lesson for his life, so he feels it is so profound. Others will need other lessons.

The way I look at Eckhart's lesson is to be present as much as possible in what we are doing NOW. It doesn't mean that what we are doing NOW has to be about the present moment. For example, I could choose to sit with family members and share stories from the past, or I could sit down and work on designing my FUTURE HOUSE with an architect. Whatever I am doing I should be present in the NOW while doing it. In other words, my thinking mind should be focused on the task at hand in front of me, while doing it. If you ever get the chance to watch the movie "THe Way of the Peaceful Warrior" go for it. It teaches the concept in visual terms in an awesome way.

Secondly, just because you are focused in the NOW doesn't mean you can't multitask. For example you could be sharing stories with family (in the NOW), and then the phone rings so you answer it and talk to the person on the phone (in the NOW) and then come back and talk to your family again (in the NOW).

What you DON'T want to do is be sitting there while your family is sharing stories of the past and you just sit there like a lump thinking about work, what files you forgot to file, what customers you didn't call back, how you did horrible at the bowling alley last night, what a short dress the waitress at the restaurant was wearing etc. not being present with your family. That's what most people do nowadays which is why Eckharts message is so profound for most. It always seems like when they are at home, they are thinking about work, and when they are at work they are thinking about home etc.

In my martial arts training I was training with a friend and my Sensei came by and asked my friend to demonstrate a technique we've been practicing for a few years now. My friend did it. My Sensei then said "Ok, that's great, now I want you to do it again, but this time clear your mind and stop thinking about what happened at work today." So them my friend did that technique again and it was WAAAAAAYYY smoother. I hardly ever think about anything else while I train, but I guess others do and it puts them at a disadvantage and opens them up to possible injury. Be PRESENT is probably the mantra that I would use myself, rather than be IN THE NOW.

BTW, if you're interested in the Course in Miracles, I would strongly suggest reading "The Disappearance of the Universe" first, as it's an intro into ACIM and ACIM is super hard to read by itself if you don't understand the premise behind it. That is why so few actually read it, even though quite a few own it. In my opinion it's just as hard to read as the Bible, and almost as long too. I've only read probably about 10% of it so far, and it's been drastically changing my life for the better. Every few pages teaches a concept just as powerful as the whole "Power of Now" concept Eckhart teaches.

Anyway, just thought I'd share my views on The Power of Now. Also, I'll say that his second book (The Earth one) was WAY better for me. Made way more sense.

[Acting Like Godot]

The problem is that while ACIM teaches that concept along with many many others, The Power of Now just teaches one concept. Therefore, it is, by itself, incomplete.

Aha. The thing is, Osho also teaches plenty, plenty of different ideas, but has in effect said that the one that matters most is being present in the now. It is the path to enlightenment.

[judge45]

The problem with now.

Now is real, the only real thing you have, so what you see now is what you'll get now. To change now, the answer lies in acceptance and creative observation.

Acceptance. You can't deny what you're getting because you created it. Every second of every day you're creating it. Accept that everything is of your creation, that you are the creator and you will empower yourself to realise that you can change now.

Creative observation. While you cannot deny what you're creating as every thought is an instruction or intention to create, you can change your thoughts about now and therefore change the instructions which in turn change the program (your reality/now)

The real secret lies in accepting that everything in your life is of your creation. This is truly the only way to exist as any other ways robs you of responsibility and that robs you of power.

Try this.

Change something small, change the way you look at it (creative observation) and notice the change.

Recently I've started to give my wife more hugs (I'm not a huggy person, but I thought our realtiaonship could be better) now I notice she's giving me more hugs and our relationship is getting better and I actually enjoy hugs now

My observation was one of no hugs and a non hugging relationship. I creatively saw the observation differently, I saw me giving my wife hugs and getting hugs back, that made me make the effort (I started hugging more) and the now has changed.

I don't know if that's a good analogy, but that's how you change the now of your reality.

Try it will something simple. Look at something small in your life right now that you would like to have differently. Don't make it big, like a million dollars by next Tuesday, start small.

Look at how it is now and use creative observation to change how you see it now and then it will change.

You can only change your life now, by accepting that you've created it (take full responsibility) and look at it in the way you want it to be (creative observation) and remember that observation is thought, when you look at now, you are actually creating it in that same moment.

HTH

Jeff

PS Much of this I learned from Steve in his podcast The True Nature of Reality I suggest you listen to it.

In subjective reality I actually learned it from myself and not Steve, but that's another can of worms

[renie408]

Originally Posted by impaul99

In my martial arts training I was training with a friend and my Sensei came by and asked my friend to demonstrate a technique we've been practicing for a few years now. My friend did it. My Sensei then said "Ok, that's great, now I want you to do it again, but this time clear your mind and stop thinking about what happened at work today." So them my friend did that technique again and it was WAAAAAAYYY smoother. I hardly ever think about anything else while I train, but I guess others do and it puts them at a disadvantage and opens them up to possible injury. Be PRESENT is probably the mantra that I would use myself, rather than be IN THE NOW.

I have had this experience over and over again in training horses. If I had a dollar for every time I had told a student that they have to 'ride the step they are in', I wouldn't need to manifest anything, I could just pay for it! I have been listening to Eckhart Tolle all weekend and it hit me that the reason is that horses live right NOW. They are not worrying about the past or stressing about the future. If you are not in the current moment, you will not be able to get the results you want from them. I have heard many great masters in riding say that riding and martial arts are similar. I wonder if the similarity lies in needing to be in the now.

What I tell myself is, "Right here, right now". That is how I am trying to orient myself to the now. I have been very struck by the things that Tolle said about ego and the part it plays in our lives and relationships. It is something I need to work on above all others. I have lived 'in my head' all my life and always been so PROUD of my intellectual prowess, not recognizing that a lot of the pain and sadness in my life stemmed from that very ego based thinking. It is humbling and HARD to have these kinds of revelations and to make changes based on them. But I am so glad that I started reading Tolle.

(for now, I think I am going to stick with Tolle. I am having a hard enough time adjusting as it is!)

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by renie408

I have been listening to Eckhart Tolle all weekend and it hit me that the reason is that horses live right NOW.

Cats.

Cats are the masters of now.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Cats.

Cats are the masters of now.

Except when they're planning to pounce, LOL.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by renie408

I have had this experience over and over again in training horses. If I had a dollar for every time I had told a student that they have to 'ride the step they are in', I wouldn't need to manifest anything, I could just pay for it! I have been listening to Eckhart Tolle all weekend and it hit me that the reason is that horses live right NOW. They are not worrying about the past or stressing about the future. If you are not in the current moment, you will not be able to get the results you want from them. I have heard many great masters in riding say that riding and martial arts are similar. I wonder if the similarity lies in needing to be in the now.

What I tell myself is, "Right here, right now". That is how I am trying to orient myself to the now. I have been very struck by the things that Tolle said about ego and the part it plays in our lives and relationships. It is something I need to work on above all others. I have lived 'in my head' all my life and always been so PROUD of my intellectual prowess, not recognizing that a lot of the pain and sadness in my life stemmed from that very ego based thinking. It is humbling and HARD to have these kinds of revelations and to make changes based on them. But I am so glad that I started reading Tolle.

(for now, I think I am going to stick with Tolle. I am having a hard enough time adjusting as it is!)

Yeah, the intellect is a blessing/curse all at the same time. If you're getting value out of Tolle, stick with it. It just means the lesson is resonating with you at your current level of vibration. At some point when the message no longer resonates, don't be afraid to look elsewhere.

[renie408]

Originally Posted by impaul99

Yeah, the intellect is a blessing/curse all at the same time. If you're getting value out of Tolle, stick with it. It just means the lesson is resonating with you at your current level of vibration. At some point when the message no longer resonates, don't be afraid to look elsewhere.

I am sure I will. I started this growth spurt a few months ago by getting interested in the LOA and I/M. I quickly shot through that and into other things. I am happy I learned about the LOA, but I really feel that it is presented so simplistically most of the time. It is viewed as a tool to get STUFF. Not that I have anything against stuff, but the more I read and learn, but more I am thinking that you have to have ALL of the tools in the box to really manifest. Tolle mentions manifesting as a sort of sidebar to enlightenment, but he definitely mentions that the more you are able to hold yourself in the now and the more you rid yourself of your ego attachment, the more you will manifest positive things into your life. This makes the most sense to me. I think that is why you have to understand WHY you want the money and the car and the relationship. If you want them to complete you, I think you will have a hard time manifesting them because what you REALLY want is completion; the stuff just represents that. I realized that what I really want is safety and security. Money represents that for me.

Anyway, sorry to have gotten so long, but I have found this to be an interesting and convoluted journey.

[The Coronet]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts, this is really helpful!

Impaul thats great advice and makes a lot of sense! I have dipped into the Course and always found it filled with wisdom!

Originally Posted by impaul99

BTW, if you're interested in the Course in Miracles, I would strongly suggest reading "The Disappearance of the Universe" first, as it's an intro into ACIM and ACIM is super hard to read by itself if you don't understand the premise behind it. .

Yep like you said I couldnt quite summon up the energy to read the whole of ACIM it is so long, I will definitely look into this book, thanks!

Originally Posted by judge45

The problem with now.
Creative observation. While you cannot deny what you're creating as every thought is an instruction or intention to create, you can change your thoughts about now and therefore change the instructions which in turn change the program (your reality/now)

The real secret lies in accepting that everything in your life is of your creation. This is truly the only way to exist as any other ways robs you of responsibility and that robs you of power.

The problem I always had with this, is that the very process of doing this implies you want something different...I suppose however it doesnt mean that your not happy with the NOW, I guess it just means you are directing the future course of NOW...so its kind of like you are getting aligned...but then in reality have we not always been aligned to the life we should be leading?

I feel like Im more on my true path than I have ever been, but that in the past I was all over the place and way off. However isnt that really an illusion? The reality is if i hadnt had had all those various NOW experiences I wouldnt be here NOW, appreciating how wonderful NOW really is...(woooe get your head around that!)

Originally Posted by renie408

What I tell myself is, "Right here, right now". That is how I am trying to orient myself to the now. I have been very struck by the things that Tolle said about ego and the part it plays in our lives and relationships. It is something I need to work on above all others. I have lived 'in my head' all my life and always been so PROUD of my intellectual prowess, not recognizing that a lot of the pain and sadness in my life stemmed from that very ego based thinking. It is humbling and HARD to have these kinds of revelations and to make changes based on them. But I am so glad that I started reading Tolle.

(for now, I think I am going to stick with Tolle. I am having a hard enough time adjusting as it is!)

Ok I think I have figured this out to keep me happy anyway...

My ego, my desires and the path my life has taken are all as they are supposed to be in order that I can become enlightened.

My path to enlightment is as so because in order to experience life I have had to believe in the illusion of seperation, time and the experience of not having and therefore wanting! This process of truth gradually unfolding itself to me is beyond beautiful and in itself is the most amazing experience.

So I am grateful to my ego because it drives me and has been the reason for my relentless searching. In the process of going out and giving it what it wants I am learning something far deeper. The law of attraction is such a miraculous law because in order to get what I want, I must first be in that state that the thing I think I want, would I believe give me! What a cool trick the universe has played on us! Now I learn that I am in control of my state, that the thing I want is not the thing that gives it to me that emotion, feeling or state. Not only that, I must feel it now, therefore I need nothing and I have everything.

I think ive just had some sort of epiphany...i feel lost for words, life is amazing isnt it :-)