I channel

[Melchior]

Originally Posted by themaster

Understand from my perspective.. Melchior.. there's nothing wrong with "limitation" if you know it's choice..

And if it's not by choice, is it wrong then?

Originally Posted by themaster

I have already admitted as much.. still I will listen to a reasonable argument..

Just that you will never agree to a reasonable argument if your EGS disagrees with it even if you cannot provide a reasonable counter argument besides what came from your EGS.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by pc99

Magic mirror – is it possible you have some annoying beliefs you’re trying to push on others?

Certainly.. and what about you pc99 what's your motivation to post?

Originally Posted by pc99

Magic mirror – you’re seeing joelr as being the aggressor on the playground. Trying to make him fit that role won’t make it so. Why do you think you need him to fill that role?

I don't need him to fill that role.. I'm just describing what I see?

And what are you seeing pc99?

Originally Posted by pc99

Magic mirror – commonly referred to as a strawman argument. You’re trying to misrepresent joelr. Perhaps we should look deeper at this anger & frustration you see.

If this strawman argument exists you should at least link to a wiki?

Cause I never heard of it..

Misrepresent.. how I can misrepresent joelr? I am merely telling him how I see him.. that's not misrepresentation.. that is just my opinion or perspective.. is there something wrong with that?

Originally Posted by pc99

Magic mirror – whom is the complainer?

You tell me.. it's your argument?

Originally Posted by pc99

Magic mirror – Would one call this comment facetious or sarcastic? How does this reflect your current life?

Who can say.. is not joelr me? and I joelr..? yes, I think so.. so therefore his qualities may also be my qualities

Originally Posted by pc99

Magic mirror

What are you really saying about you hear pc99.. let's forget about joelr.. what is it your saying??

Hmm.. ???

Are you saying..

Magic mirror is wrong?

Look at your own ♥♥♥♥♥? lol

I'm just saying.. what's that underlying motivation? Why seek to post and share?

See I always ask these questions.. I know my motivation.. do you know yours? That is after all what all my questions are about.. what is joelr's motivation.. and what is yours?

Originally Posted by pc99

Magic mirror – this is a demonstration of devaluing a person. They are replaceable. Unimportant. Almost like an extra in a film. .

No that's your judgment..

My comment was a demonstration about how "limited" thinking is everywhere.. your neighbor, college professor, mailman.. you can find skeptical thinking everywhere.. and that's what I said..

I think you said "the master you judged us all unequal" and I just corrected to you on what I said..

BTW thanks for proving my point.. "limited thinking is everywhere"

[themaster]

Originally Posted by Melchior

And if it's not by choice, is it wrong then?

Nope but it could be described as "limited"

Originally Posted by Melchior

Just that you will never agree to a reasonable argument if your EGS disagrees with it even if you cannot provide a reasonable counter argument besides what came from your EGS.

I've never been presented with a argument that activated my EGS in disagreement

[themaster]

Originally Posted by pc99

Magic mirror – this is a demonstration of devaluing a person. They are replaceable. Unimportant. Almost like an extra in a film.

Originally Posted by themaster

No that's your judgment..

My comment was a demonstration about how "limited" thinking is everywhere.. your neighbor, college professor, mailman.. you can find skeptical thinking everywhere.. and that's what I said..

I think you said "the master you judged us all unequal" and I just corrected to you on what I said..

BTW thanks for proving my point.. "limited thinking is everywhere"

Let me re-clarify this argument.. cause my brain wants too

What I'm really saying is.. you can't go up to a person on the street and say "death is a illusion" and expect anything but a negative reaction..

Would joelr, react like this?? probably not.. he is more "new agey" then a man on the street..

But my point was skepticism is everywhere and in every form.. if you don't believe me, go up to 10 random people and say "death is a illusion" we become re-integrated with ourselves or "lack is a illusion" there's no such thing as no money..

And watch the anger on some people's faces that you talk to as you combat them on their beliefs.. it wouldn't be everybody but it would be most everybody

[Melchior]

Originally Posted by themaster

Nope but it could be described as "limited"

I would recommend you reexamine if the chosen limitations you have are still as effective.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by themaster

You see your already helpless from my standpoint.. manifest yourself up a "apple"..

what you can't do that, instantly?

Creator god.. what has happened to your powers?? There broken?

Did you forget to get your x-men mutant gene activated?

I can imagine.. and I'm sure you can imagine.. wolfgang that there is pleasure in "helplessness" so whether you have a belief in your way that gives you negative feedback is something else entirely..

so now I see what the context was you mentioned "helpless" was in. I was taking helpless to be victim. so in your system you view helpless as not being able to manifest extraordinary things, it reads like to me.

Not manifesting grand things or having extraordinary abilities isn't something I wish to be involved with actually. I don't see not having those things as helpless. They can come if it is to be. I don't have a need to wish for it. otherwise, to wish for the grand things is... wishful thinking. I am more of the understanding that there is such a thing as "right wishing". Where it's possible to ask for that which is already given. That manifests perfectly. I don't see it terribly useful to try to figure out how to manifest an apple - when it's more likely that I'll just find one at the supermarket.

It's not "wrong" to just try to make a assessment of where you're at.. or where you want to be.. I just gave you a idea from my study/imaginings of what it is like to be fully 100% conscious and possibly still human This is where I don't agree.. beliefs aren't just BUILT into consciousness.. they are acquired.. "downloaded" if you will..

Do you really think you woke up one morning.. and just didn't like yourself cause of something you were thinking?

speak for yourself - not for me.

The reason we hate ourselves is cause we BUILT that too.. the reason were disconnected from the ONE is cause BUILT that.. the reason were forgetful and just not always so SURE of ourselves is all BUILT by us!

Not anyone else... US!

so in your system, that helplessness about not being able to manifest an apple, was built by you in some way - and then you like to call that helpless even though you admit to it being built by you.

We are playing a game.. remember "candyland" or chess.. there are RULES to play this game you DOWNLOADED/AQUIRED the rules.. the best thing going on right now is we're creating "THERE ARE NO RULES" that is the change coming into place mostly in the future..

So I'm not going to join you on the idea that BELIEFS are all your fault.. some of them are your fault.. most of them are not.. (there all your fault.. if you recognize you and everyone else are one! )

so you are not into 100% responsibility?

But anyway.. as I said the rules are breaking down.. change is coming.. it's here..

however, you are also fond of the rules (your limitations) as you posted somewhere in this thread. So if true, why the breaking down of these rules that you are fond of?

[themaster]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

so now I see what the context was you mentioned "helpless" was in. I was taking helpless to be victim. so in your system you view helpless as not being able to manifest extraordinary things, it reads like to me.

Yah, but you see "helpless" is a victim type of word it says "I have no power" it is not a word of a "empowerment"

So helpless is not a word I'd associate with seeing us.. I mean yes, many of our powers aren't accessible to us.. but they can grow.. isn't that what the "law of attraction" journey is all about?

The primary reason we're talking about "helplessness" is you made a statement of limitation as I recall.. you said it was not possible for you to view "helplessness" as a good/positive thing.. I believe that is the reason we have been focused on the word

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Not manifesting grand things or having extraordinary abilities isn't something I wish to be involved with actually.

No one said you "had to"

Of course it's my understanding to follow the path of LOA is to follow the path to more manifestation and more conscious of being conscious

Originally Posted by wolfgang

I don't see not having those things as helpless.

Neither, do I.. big surprise right?

Originally Posted by wolfgang

I don't have a need to wish for it. otherwise, to wish for the grand things is... wishful thinking.

Careful here.. now you're on the road to a "statement of limitation" a label of "wishful thinking" being limiting..

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Where it's possible to ask for that which is already given. That manifests perfectly. I don't see it terribly useful to try to figure out how to manifest an apple - when it's more likely that I'll just find one at the supermarket.

Once again it sounds a bit more like judgment then observation here..

How do you know one day you're not going to want to say "apple" and have one appear?

How do you know one day you may want to design your dream house.. and you don't need money or construction materials or laborers.. or PIECES OF PAPER saying this land is yours..

You go and choose the land and if you don't like it you redesign it.. you set up a OCEAN here and glass windows no make that polydycarbonate windows here.. and a porch here.. set up a "dolphin" pool here..

This is the path of "law of attraction" wolfgang, no joke! This is the path to becoming conscious.. this is the future I am talking about.. but it is only a step away from "today" this is my understanding..

Originally Posted by wolfgang

speak for yourself - not for me.

Are you in denial of what I'm saying?

Are you saying I validate your truth.. but this truth does not resonate?

What does this statement really mean?

[themaster]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

so in your system, that helplessness about not being able to manifest an apple, was built by you in some way - and then you like to call that helpless even though you admit to it being built by you.

I don't believe in labels wolfgang.. the second you put me in a "label" box stop.. labels are limitation.. "helpless" is once again not a word I would associate with empowerment..

Helpless.. the lack of help, the lack of empowerment, the lack of power

We consciously (I believe) built this world with a lot of limitations.. we are now re-forming it in a way to what we had in Atlantis.. we have also played out games here that are "Atlantian" like.. what I mean is.. it's no accident "hitler" came to power in the last century.. this was a replay/a redo of something we did/happened in Atlantis

There is a reason why the "united states" is a dominant power over others.. this is a recreation of something we did in Atlantis too.. in this circumstance the U.S. is Atlantis.. thus is my understanding

It is not a ME, who built this limitation it is a US! Together we all went this way.. together we did this experiment.. and together we rise up..

I heard a interesting fact the other day.. we travel this world together so that means the "lowest of the low vibrations" have to be carried up with us.. what I mean is if you have a depressed/suicidal person.. even if they don't want to.. we the people raising our vibrations up.. slam him with energy and pull him.. (slam not being a negative word in this usage ) it's just collectively as some of us push for "higher vibrations" "higher ways to be" we pull up even though lowest vibration..

In translation that just means.. he/she is a little less depressed, a little less suicidal (all the sudden)

Originally Posted by wolfgang

so you are not into 100% responsibility?

Of course I am.. what makes you think that in this statement?

We are responsible even when were not responsible.. get it?

Originally Posted by wolfgang

however, you are also fond of the rules (your limitations) as you posted somewhere in this thread. So if true, why the breaking down of these rules that you are fond of?

Simple answer is.. there in my way (I guess) to the holodeck

I will break anything and remove any limitations that keep me from the holodeck.. that's just plain and simple.. even if I like my limitations

One of those simple limitations is.. "I don't believe the apple will appear in my hand" that's what the Energy is for.. "the shift" is for one day I will not have that belief in place.. (I would say it's already waning right now.. )

Understand that not only are the rules breaking but manifestation is becoming faster.. have you seen it?

Wolfgang there is a common thing we talk about here in LOA where if you believe your dream to be true.. it will come!

Imagine your me.. and you say.. I want to be a rockstar.. according to LOA rules you just need to BE a rockstar.. treat yourself like you have a million dollar mansion and the hoes are after you!

But most of us our scared to even imagine that or pretend to be in that "reality" because we'd be seen as crazy.. and we want to "acknowledge" the real reality.. so again this is where the idea of "permission slips" comes in..

Once again my work with my teacher is "permissions slips" for change.. there something I choose to believe.. I could just as much work with a crazy "christian" preacher and if I got rid of that "crazy" judgment.. and believed him that change is coming and everyone's going to be empowered that is also a "belief" system you can use..

All change is a permission slip.. you say to me.. "I want to fly" I say you have to learn to BELIEVE the permission slips that allow your flight..

That's how you go from being homeless to a rockstar *cough* I meant flying

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by themaster

Yah, but you see "helpless" is a victim type of word it says "I have no power" it is not a word of a "empowerment"

So helpless is not a word I'd associate with seeing us.. I mean yes, many of our powers aren't accessible to us.. but they can grow.. isn't that what the "law of attraction" journey is all about?

The primary reason we're talking about "helplessness" is you made a statement of limitation as I recall.. you said it was not possible for you to view "helplessness" as a good/positive thing.. I believe that is the reason we have been focused on the word
No one said you "had to"

you started the helpless word in this:

"pleasure in helplessness" - to which I said no - my EGS would guide me away from that.

Of course it's my understanding to follow the path of LOA is to follow the path to more manifestation and more conscious of being conscious
Neither, do I.. big surprise right?
Careful here.. now you're on the road to a "statement of limitation" a label of "wishful thinking" being limiting..
Once again it sounds a bit more like judgment then observation here..

no - many people are on the "wishful thinking" version of LOA and that's why it doesn't work for them. they are wishing out of fear. not out of wholeness.

How do you know one day you're not going to want to say "apple" and have one appear?

if was useful or important enough it just might be in my reality.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by themaster

Are you in denial of what I'm saying?

Are you saying I validate your truth.. but this truth does not resonate?

What does this statement really mean?

if you make statements like "we" this and that - starts to assume what others states are. so speaking for yourself would eliminate those possible off mark assumptions.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

you started the helpless word in this:

I think we disagree on this.. your EGS would not guide you away from this.. it would via emotion tell you that there is PLEASURE in helplessness.. there is a way to appreciate from "helplessness" there is a way to be positive while also recognizing your helpless be it physically or mentally

Originally Posted by wolfgang

no - many people are on the "wishful thinking" version of LOA and that's why it doesn't work for them. they are wishing out of fear. not out of wholeness.

Well, it always works.. but yah they tend to complain if it doesn't meet their criteria/expectations

Originally Posted by wolfgang

if was useful or important enough it just might be in my reality.

I think it'd be more then "useful" I think most people will/would want it..

My teacher describes a future time scenario where that will just happen.. he says that even though people are stripped of their "limitations" which is what he says in that scenario.. he thinks people will think..

"hmm.. I hope there aren't any bad guys" bad guys instantly manifest..

"hmm.. I need me a gun" gun instantly manifests

His scenario sounds fun.. I wouldn't say it's the future! but it's possible

Originally Posted by wolfgang

if you make statements like "we" this and that - starts to assume what others states are. so speaking for yourself would eliminate those possible off mark assumptions.

Sometimes I speak of "we" as in us together or us as all part of the one

But I couldn't find a we anywhere in the statement above..

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by themaster

I think we disagree on this.. your EGS would not guide you away from this.. it would via emotion tell you that there is PLEASURE in helplessness.. there is a way to appreciate from "helplessness" there is a way to be positive while also recognizing your helpless be it physically or mentally

when I say my EGS would guide me - I mean taking into account the emotional content and taking the message to allow me to choose something else (which it looks like you say as such too). So you like to think helplessness has pleasure to it. Where helplessness, to you, means limitations in not being able to manifest an apple? and you find that pleasurable? if I imagine manifesting an apple (and then it doesn't happen because of some rules I'm operating in), to me, my EGS starts kicking in and says "that's a frustrating endeavor", "that's not pleasurable to want to manifest an apple and not getting it" - so if I listen to those feelings, my EGS, it seems to be clueing me into not actually going down that road, to not spend my energy and focus in that phatasitcal wishing/manifesting way.

Well, it always works.. but yah they tend to complain if it doesn't meet their criteria/expectations

IM doesn't work for some because they are fear based in their wishes - they don't really have a grasp of what, or rather how, they are intending. The LOA always works but a fear/lack based intention doesn't manifest the wish.

I think it'd be more then "useful" I think most people will/would want it..

it would seem like manifesting an apple would be useful, yet if we had all these powers would we need to use them? it might be more useful to have angels visit us when we are about to have a car accident then to walk through walls as a party trick.

My teacher describes a future time scenario where that will just happen.. he says that even though people are stripped of their "limitations" which is what he says in that scenario.. he thinks people will think..

"hmm.. I hope there aren't any bad guys" bad guys instantly manifest..

"hmm.. I need me a gun" gun instantly manifests

His scenario sounds fun.. I wouldn't say it's the future! but it's possible

yes I've heard this idea too.
that we are here to experience a slowed down manifesting rate because having bad mind control would create a bunch of nonsense and be chaotic or something.

Sometimes I speak of "we" as in us together or us as all part of the one

But I couldn't find a we anywhere in the statement above..

It was really in the "the reason we hate ourselves" that I would say, speak for yourself. Like "The reasons I hate myself is..." I wouldn't know if everyone else, or "we", are in that boat of hating themselves. I would say I don't hate myself. My EGS keeps telling me so!

[themaster]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

It was really in the "the reason we hate ourselves" that I would say, speak for yourself. Like "The reasons I hate myself is..." I wouldn't know if everyone else, or "we", are in that boat of hating themselves. I would say I don't hate myself. My EGS keeps telling me so!

I hate to burst your bubble.. wolfgang.. but I think we do "hate" ourselves!

What I mean is.. we didn't get this far down in vibration without building a lot of "low level vibrations" and ways of being..

There are very simple questions you can ask about why aren't we so happy?

Why don't we smile all the time?

Why don't we laugh all the time?

Why do we believe happiness has to be based on some "action" thing we are doing whether it's sex or riding a roller coaster? Why can't we be happy all the time? for no reason?

My understanding wolfgang studying with my teachers is we built a lot of "beliefs" or "limitations" in the structure of reality.. that's why these things exist today! Are they going away! (yes, they are ) but it's going to take time.. or a passive upgrade

I'm not telling you.. you hate yourself! Wolfgang.. yet, I'm also telling you that consciously.. if anything I said above applies to you (and it certainly applies to me! ) you do!

I validate your opinion and statements about yourself.. but perhaps now you can see where I'm coming from.. ehh?

Originally Posted by wolfgang

when I say my EGS would guide me - I mean taking into account the emotional content and taking the message to allow me to choose something else (which it looks like you say as such too). So you like to think helplessness has pleasure to it. Where helplessness, to you, means limitations in not being able to manifest an apple? and you find that pleasurable? if I imagine manifesting an apple (and then it doesn't happen because of some rules I'm operating in), to me, my EGS starts kicking in and says "that's a frustrating endeavor", "that's not pleasurable to want to manifest an apple and not getting it" - so if I listen to those feelings, my EGS, it seems to be clueing me into not actually going down that road, to not spend my energy and focus in that phatasitcal wishing/manifesting way.

Something doesn't click with me about this statement..

Originally Posted by wolfgang

it seems to be clueing me into not actually going down that road, to not spend my energy and focus in that phatasitcal wishing/manifesting way.

Wolfgang.. this again sounds like a judgment you made in previous statements..

It sounds like the EGO making a statement of limitation.. or let me retranslate.. "that's not possible" and not only is it not possible, don't even try! I won't bother to go there cause it's "wishy washy"

There is a big difference if you ask me between acknowledging something is possible and your capable of it.. and saying that's impossible and I'm totally incapable!

To me one is a statement of limitation.. and another is just acknowledging where you might be "vibrationally" to the other

Originally Posted by wolfgang

when I say my EGS would guide me - I mean taking into account the emotional content and taking the message to allow me to choose something else (which it looks like you say as such too). So you like to think helplessness has pleasure to it. Where helplessness, to you, means limitations in not being able to manifest an apple? and you find that pleasurable? if I imagine manifesting an apple (and then it doesn't happen because of some rules I'm operating in), to me, my EGS starts kicking in and says "that's a frustrating endeavor", "that's not pleasurable to want to manifest an apple and not getting it" - so if I listen to those feelings, my EGS, it seems to be clueing me into not actually going down that road, to not spend my energy and focus in that phatasitcal wishing/manifesting way.

One of the things that doesn't click is your almost describing the "emotional body" like it "thinks" like the EGO (mental self)

Emotional body is more a re-actor.. giving input based on circumstances

Most people have no idea why they FEEL what they FEEL.. they get emotions and often times use there EGO on them too.. this is not good.. this is bad

[themaster]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

to me, my EGS starts kicking in and says "that's a frustrating endeavor", "that's not pleasurable to want to manifest an apple and not getting it" - so if I listen to those feelings

Yah, but see these statements don't sound like EGS they sound a lot more like EGO..

See we don't really control the EGS from my standpoint.. it just provides feedback..

Let's talk about what I meant when I said "pleasure in helplessness" I actually meant bondage.. a form of sadomasochistic sex.. where some people have trained there EGO's to find fun in forms of "bondage" "being tied up" as a type of rape fantasy (something like that )

I think under this idea.. we can imagine share the idea there is "pleasure" there for some..

I can sit in this moment and say "apple manifest" (command!) so the apple doesn't appear.. to me the EGS has nothing to say about that.. (just tried it) don't really feel anything but tingling in my body!

(now I suppose if you have limited beliefs.. you might say this is silly for even trying! and get a form of "negative" feedback)

However the EGS may react to these statements.. let's try a few..

- it's all a lie there is no life after death!

- You are a beautiful radiant being, let your beauty, you shine, filling the room with love

- I am a great creator god capable of doing anything!

- I am a loser capable of doing nothing! I hate life!

Originally Posted by wolfgang

IM doesn't work for some because they are fear based in their wishes - they don't really have a grasp of what, or rather how, they are intending. The LOA always works but a fear/lack based intention doesn't manifest the wish.

I think we agree.. we just have different ways of saying it

I would also be careful about this.. what I mean is you seem to "focus" on it a bit too much.. whereas I might say "live and let live" be and let be.. that is really a statement of no resistance is it not?

Originally Posted by wolfgang

it would seem like manifesting an apple would be useful, yet if we had all these powers would we need to use them? it might be more useful to have angels visit us when we are about to have a car accident then to walk through walls as a party trick.

You realizing in a way your implying that we don't create all the time 100% right?

There is no such thing as a *accident* from my perspective wolfgang.. it's all creation.. we don't need Angels to visit us.. because to be honest were in full control of our reality all the time.. even when we have the *accident*

Do you believe that all is creation? Or is that a belief you haven't quite shared? Because the statement above hints at that..

If we all could manifest instantly.. I'm not sure we'd need "angels" help.. but according to our sci-fi writers.. we'd destroy ourselves or some such thing.. if you haven't seen the "what happens when you can manifest instantly! judgment movie" you should check out "sphere"

Originally Posted by wolfgang

yes I've heard this idea too.
that we are here to experience a slowed down manifesting rate because having bad mind control would create a bunch of nonsense and be chaotic or something.

Yes, exactly.. this is a common "fear" story" or bad story our sci-fi writers have explored many times.. check out the "outer limits" too or "twilight zone" for these type of stories..

I remember there is a movie that gives me a "negative" vibration and or book.. last time I read it.. I think I hate "the martian chronicles" a kind of sadistic look at ourselves and a recreation of how we wiped out the indians

I think, I hate it.. have EGS emotion for it because it's hammering out a judgment that the human race is a bunch of brute less killers..

Of course it isn't just fiction authors that think that way.. read one of our "history books" and those are in a way filled with "judgments" and remember what we did to the indians? Innuendo and everything else..

Remember what we did to the muslims?

History books are written on the idea of not "repeating" past mistakes.. but sometimes there a tad bit to judgmental in there trying to be "impartial" neutral telling of information..

See really what happens is.. you have joined into the "judgment system" right, wrong.. good, bad.. read the book and then kind of lean the way of the author in this is Good and that's Bad.. and that's kind of where some beliefs come from.. also remember a "history author" can channel mass held consciousness beliefs into his/her book without realizing it

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by themaster

I hate to burst your bubble.. wolfgang.. but I think we do "hate" ourselves!

What I mean is.. we didn't get this far down in vibration without building a lot of "low level vibrations" and ways of being..

isn't it limiting to see it this way? why the view of far down in vibration is hate? didn't we do this because of love (real love)?

There are very simple questions you can ask about why aren't we so happy?

Why don't we smile all the time?

Why don't we laugh all the time?

we don't laugh all the time because we get tired of being happy all the time. static happiness would not have contrast to know that one is happy.

Why do we believe happiness has to be based on some "action" thing we are doing whether it's sex or riding a roller coaster? Why can't we be happy all the time? for no reason?

we are learning how to find love from within. nothing from without will bring this happiness.

My understanding wolfgang studying with my teachers is we built a lot of "beliefs" or "limitations" in the structure of reality.. that's why these things exist today! Are they going away! (yes, they are ) but it's going to take time.. or a passive upgrade

sure rule sets on reality. morphic fields. belief packages.

I'm not telling you.. you hate yourself! Wolfgang.. yet, I'm also telling you that consciously.. if anything I said above applies to you (and it certainly applies to me! ) you do!

what a odd thing to say to someone. "you hate yourself". but yeah what you said above about being happy all the time meaning we hate ourselves is not a conclusion of mine.

I validate your opinion and statements about yourself.. but perhaps now you can see where I'm coming from.. ehh?
Something doesn't click with me about this statement..

Wolfgang.. this again sounds like a judgment you made in previous statements..

It sounds like the EGO making a statement of limitation.. or let me retranslate.. "that's not possible" and not only is it not possible, don't even try! I won't bother to go there cause it's "wishy washy"

you have retranslated words I wrote into a different meaning. you like to view it as limitation. I tend to view it as honest to the moment. I'm all for open ended results that are outside of rule sets. to manifest an apple would be that. I'm not for doing or trying to make an apple manifest for entertainment or parlor tricks and because I don't see a need to. I manifest what I need too, what I desire - it's not limitation to be in this state. apples out of thin air would not be a more expanded state.

There is a big difference if you ask me between acknowledging something is possible and your capable of it.. and saying that's impossible and I'm totally incapable!

It's not being incapable that I would say it is. It is there is a right way of asking for what is already given. It opens life up and drops conditioning. it manifests safely. you and I are already doing that. the manifestations of extraordinary kinds don't happen exactly because it is viewed as extraordinary - it would break too many rule sets and we'd go bonkers. the manifestations are safe and follow super and sub conscious rule sets that make chaos easier to be part of. The possibility of apples out of the air I acknowledge, sure why not? I'm for seeing gaps in the rule sets and finding a space of being that isn't following the rules and is more open to possibilities. that means not even being so specific to call for an apple, because that would limit the result to being an apple. when maybe something else would work better or bring wholeness or fun

To me one is a statement of limitation.. and another is just acknowledging where you might be "vibrationally" to the other

One of the things that doesn't click is your almost describing the "emotional body" like it "thinks" like the EGO (mental self)

Emotional body is more a re-actor.. giving input based on circumstances

Most people have no idea why they FEEL what they FEEL.. they get emotions and often times use there EGO on them too.. this is not good.. this is bad

EGS lesson cool. I will not think with my EGS because I can't.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by themaster

Yah, but see these statements don't sound like EGS they sound a lot more like EGO..

ego is what interprets the EGS.

See we don't really control the EGS from my standpoint.. it just provides feedback..

I know that.

I can sit in this moment and say "apple manifest" (command!) so the apple doesn't appear.. to me the EGS has nothing to say about that.. (just tried it) don't really feel anything but tingling in my body!

good. what I get is, two ways I ask for an apple. one is open ended and no reaction kicks in the EGS. If however I ask with fear or leak, the EGS kicks something up. Like why do that? however, the open ended asking or commanding is not attached to the outcome.

- it's all a lie there is no life after death!

- You are a beautiful radiant being, let your beauty, you shine, filling the room with love

- I am a great creator god capable of doing anything!

- I am a loser capable of doing nothing! I hate life!

well I would ask you what you understand about this. feelings can be kicked up based on what one's conditioning is. like a previous trauma might make one fearful of water, if they almost drowned. Does that mean their EGS is giving them feedback that water should be avoided?

There is no such thing as a *accident* from my perspective wolfgang.. it's all creation.. we don't need Angels to visit us.. because to be honest were in full control of our reality all the time.. even when we have the *accident*

then we don't need manifested out of thin air apples either!

Do you believe that all is creation? Or is that a belief you haven't quite shared? Because the statement above hints at that..

doesn't matter what I believe. to have to define what "all is creation" is already a lost cause on me.

If we all could manifest instantly.. I'm not sure we'd need "angels" help..

angels or apples out of thin air - same thing, something extraordinary. manifesting is already instant. intentional manifest probably is if we would open up enough to feel it or be it or "know" the super and sub conscious in a being way.

See really what happens is.. you have joined into the "judgment system" right, wrong.. good, bad.. read the book and then kind of lean the way of the author in this is Good and that's Bad.. and that's kind of where some beliefs come from.. also remember a "history author" can channel mass held consciousness beliefs into his/her book without realizing it

yup the belief sets are there to walk into and live out.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

isn't it limiting to see it this way? why the view of far down in vibration is hate? didn't we do this because of love (real love)?

We did this cause we were strong enough to do it.. (that's what bashar would say ) and just cause we can!

Originally Posted by wolfgang

isn't it limiting to see it this way?

Yes, if it's a judgment.. if it's a observation with a sorta/maybe/that's the way I see it.. I reserve the right to change my opinion.. then I believe it's neutral and a observation not limiting..

You are in a limited reality.. observing and feeling limitation

Originally Posted by wolfgang

why the view of far down in vibration is hate?

To be clear it's not hate.. it's not liking self! It's not loving self..

Ever notice how some of us cringe at the "LOVE" word..? alright it's just me then

Originally Posted by wolfgang

we don't laugh all the time because we get tired of being happy all the time. static happiness would not have contrast to know that one is happy.

That's a crock of crap.. that's actually a intellectual EGO based argument/belief..

Give me a break..

It's duality argument.. what your saying is.. cause there is HOT there must be cold.. I have to be miserable to experience laughter.. (now I agree that misery or unhappiness.. enhances the feeling of happiness) but let's be clear according to my teachers..

Misery is optional!

And we know misery is optional.. wolfgang.. we! some of us are smart (or intuition) enough to see a EASY path and a hard path!

We see the paths in our lives or in others lives.. and we can see easily that if they go this way it will be hard! It will be a struggle! It will be rewarding.. but there is a easier path.. there is a path of least resistance.. and that's the path without "misery" mostly

Originally Posted by wolfgang

what a odd thing to say to someone. "you hate yourself". but yeah what you said above about being happy all the time meaning we hate ourselves is not a conclusion of mine.

Perhaps you and I just had different definitions.. I didn't think I was "unhappy" I thought, I was content, happy enough.. seems like my teacher showed me I was in misery and in pain more.. that's what my 1st experience with him was like..

Because all we or I did was "heal" that away..

Originally Posted by wolfgang

you have retranslated words I wrote into a different meaning.

Yes, that's just what I do.. isn't it? Look at things from my perspective

Originally Posted by wolfgang

you like to view it as limitation.

Sounds like a judgment to me.. sounds like you put me in your EGO box..

I'm not liking to view it as limitation.. I'm simply sifting through your words and what you're saying for your unconscious beliefs.. I simply pointed one out.. if you say it's "miss-communication" or "incorrect" fine by me..

Just something you should maybe look at or be aware off.. but if you don't want to look.. don't want to be aware off.. fine..

[themaster]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

I tend to view it as honest to the moment. I'm all for open ended results that are outside of rule sets. to manifest an apple would be that. I'm not for doing or trying to make an apple manifest for entertainment or parlor tricks and because I don't see a need to. I manifest what I need too, what I desire - it's not limitation to be in this state. apples out of thin air would not be a more expanded state.

You remind me now a bit of a "enlightenment seeker" one who wants to be enlightened more than anything.. but sometimes misses the key to enlightenment cause there so focused on "being perfect" or beyond judgment (key to being "beyond judgment" is to not care what others think)

I understand your saying "instant manifestation" I don't need it and I don't see it currently enhancing me or my reality.. sure.. that's true for you..

I define limitation as "stating that anything is not possible" pretty much.. and even believing it

Quite few people will say "anything's possible" (even me ) but then backtrack and say "no anything's not possible!"

What I would say is.. like all things.. "being able to manifest a apple out of thin air" is a tool you would use.. or a "permission slip" you would use for whatever your purposes are..

The ironic thing is.. there is no difference between a "hammer" and "manifesting a apple out of thin air" there both the same thing tools or "permission slips"

Originally Posted by wolfgang

It's not being incapable that I would say it is. It is there is a right way of asking for what is already given. It opens life up and drops conditioning. it manifests safely.

Yes, exactly safety is a keyword here.. there is a lot of FEAR in our space.. that's a given..

I don't totally understand why spiritual teachers that are currently (non-physical or even physical) like bashar can't just show up here and "we" believe it.. or not go brain dead..

But one of my basic understandings is.. that energy is like on a mathematical scale if you will.. here we are at 0.. Okay if it's not 0 to 10.. on a scale of 10,000 here we are at 1,343 and it's my understanding that these teachers/beings.. are on a scale of 3,588 or 5,939 vibrationally and are energy doesn't match.. cause we can only see/be to a scale of 1,500 tops (ohh wait now we can do 1,501)

There is my very intellectual conversion of a idea I have hard time talking about.. which is vibrational range.. and how we can only ALLOW so much..

(however, make a note.. I am aware of certain ENERGY transformers.. that can step down vibration/transform it to be compatible) so that's all I know in nutshell

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by themaster

We did this cause we were strong enough to do it.. (that's what bashar would say ) and just cause we can!
Yes, if it's a judgment.. if it's a observation with a sorta/maybe/that's the way I see it.. I reserve the right to change my opinion.. then I believe it's neutral and a observation not limiting..

You are in a limited reality.. observing and feeling limitation
To be clear it's not hate.. it's not liking self! It's not loving self..

Ever notice how some of us cringe at the "LOVE" word..? alright it's just me then That's a crock of crap.. that's actually a intellectual EGO based argument/belief..

Give me a break..

It's duality argument.. what your saying is.. cause there is HOT there must be cold.. I have to be miserable to experience laughter.. (now I agree that misery or unhappiness.. enhances the feeling of happiness) but let's be clear according to my teachers..

Misery is optional!

And we know misery is optional.. wolfgang.. we! some of us are smart (or intuition) enough to see a EASY path and a hard path!

We see the paths in our lives or in others lives.. and we can see easily that if they go this way it will be hard! It will be a struggle! It will be rewarding.. but there is a easier path.. there is a path of least resistance.. and that's the path without "misery" mostly
Perhaps you and I just had different definitions.. I didn't think I was "unhappy" I thought, I was content, happy enough.. seems like my teacher showed me I was in misery and in pain more.. that's what my 1st experience with him was like..

Because all we or I did was "heal" that away.. Yes, that's just what I do.. isn't it? Look at things from my perspective
Sounds like a judgment to me.. sounds like you put me in your EGO box..

I'm not liking to view it as limitation.. I'm simply sifting through your words and what you're saying for your unconscious beliefs.. I simply pointed one out.. if you say it's "miss-communication" or "incorrect" fine by me..

Just something you should maybe look at or be aware off.. but if you don't want to look.. don't want to be aware off.. fine..

good bye themaster

[themaster]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

the manifestations of extraordinary kinds don't happen exactly because it is viewed as extraordinary

This is not exactly true.. these manifestations happen.. there just not something I'm aware that I've ever done.. consciously

They certainly (if you ask me) are representative of many miracle stories we have in our media..

On top of which I believe there are some who can make these manifestations happen on a consistent basis.. these would be called (if labeled ) magicians, shamans, healers etc.

Why do you think I wanted to become one of those?

Originally Posted by wolfgang

it would break too many rule sets and we'd go bonkers

It's not bonkers by my understanding, wolfgang.. it's actually that we wouldn't see it! That right in front of us Aliens could land.. a huge firework show would be in the sky and we'd be oblivious that's my understanding..

It's all about vibration I believe..

Originally Posted by wolfgang

the manifestations are safe and follow super and sub conscious rule sets that make chaos easier to be part of.

I don't think most people consciously manifesting "change" in their life.. often label the chaos/change they create as SAFE

But your right it does follow those guidelines.. in general

Originally Posted by wolfgang

that means not even being so specific to call for an apple, because that would limit the result to being an apple. when maybe something else would work better or bring wholeness or fun.

I think we both agree on this.. however knowing that you could create a apple with 100% belief or capability/command would transcend the "doubts" of being able to create it..

What I'm saying is your argument that focusing on something else is unnecessary.. if you already have the BELIEF or "permission slips" in place to create like it's matter-of-fact

[themaster]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

good bye themaster

cya

[joelr]

Originally Posted by themaster

Why is it wrong to "act like a child"??

What's so wrong with being a child?

Why is it wrong to "act" like a child??

Come on joelr, are you ever going to answer any of my questions..

Because children have not learned how to break free of their ego. Their goal when debating isn't to learn, it's to fool others into thinking they came out on top. Even if they use, mis-use and abuse every possible concept, including being hypocritical by doing the things they are speaking against.

I said you are acting like a child because I read you doing these things.
How you judge that is not important.

[joelr]

Originally Posted by themaster

Pretty sure I asked you that question 1 million times now..
Joelr, truth only applies to you if you let it..

I examine everything from feeling.. is this my truth is it not.. if it doesn't FEEL right.. I don't accept.. easy-peasy..

From my perspective there is no wrong.. I can call you a liar, bigamist, hater, evil bastard that killed millions of jews.. and that's not wrong!

It's only if I feel that negativity.. that I am doing a DISSERVICE to myself..

I can say all those things above and feel good.. (I do..) I can feel NEUTRAL..

I don't have to feel anger, hatred, negativity.. that is choice.. because it's "who you are" behind what you say..

Yeah, whatever.
So like I was saying, recently Angela explained pretty much this same thing to you, that when you say "you should" and similar things it's a limitation on yourself.
But since it was directed at you, you said it was NOT TRUE. Even though you use that same idea against everyone else, now it's NOT TRUE when aimed at you.

You can dish out criticism but you can't take it.

[moonrambler]

Joel, I don't think you've noticed, but themaster has left the building.

[joelr]

Originally Posted by themaster

No.. it is denial!

However.. if you recognize something as "not resonating" that's not denial.. that's just saying.. this is not my truth!

It's really more of again I think.. a 3d and 4d thing..

Again 3d being rigid, always or never! (no in-between )

And 4d being in-between! Shades of grey.. a little room to maneuver..

Right, shades of gray, room to be sketchy. Room to call someone else's actions "denial" and when you get called the same you play some ridiculous word game and accuse them of being too rigid. Attack the attacker, that's your style. It's all ego driven babble.

Originally Posted by themaster

What I mean is.. you say.. to me.. dave there is only up or down! there is nothing else!

I say to you no! Joelr, there also sideways, and scrallways, and air duct vent ways.. and loopeydoloos and high choo's!

And you just get angry and frustrated because you insist there is only up and down!

That's what again I am reminded of in this conversation.. open up joelr, live a little.. let get go of your restrictions.. let go of your RULES.. let go

Relax, peace man Back to your boxes..?? So soon?

Yup, I'm in that box where if a wanna-be metaphysics guy is mainly concerned with taking everyone else down a few notches to make himself look good then I'll call him on it.

So what proof do you have of these different directions?

Why are you telling me to let go of rules? Why not start with yourself? You are the most rigid rule enforcer I know of.

Sure you claim to be free but once you start communicating with others it's clear you have an extremely rigid system of labels and judgments.
This guy is "this", that poster is "that". This one is in a box, this one is afraid, this one is Limited, this one is closed, this one is stuck in 3D?
To label so many posters with so many labels shows the ultimate restrictions and RULES.

You have already dug yourself into this rigid position, where almost everyone else has some "problem" you have to tell them about. Often the problems are based on bastardations of good concepts. But if someone tries to help you out with a similar "problem" you might have, based on the same concepts, you'll ignore or deny?
Maybe even say "don't be rigid". Even though you were just rigid?

[elucidate]

Uh...maybe you didn't read moonramblers post joelr?

themaster was banned the other day...you're talking to yourself (though I have a feeling he may be watching)

[Laurenaus]

what did he finally say to get banned?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Laurenaus

what did he finally say to get banned?

Just the usual

Did he ever say anything but what he usually says?

[moonrambler]

Specifically, he had received warnings about making judgmental commentary about other members, and sideline comments about other members who had made it clear they didn't like this, and he was unwilling to stop.

[joelr]

Oh yeah, I missed that. Right then, carry on.