LOA is a "religion"

[annie]

This is definitely not going to be a well thought out post....but I'm really struggling with the whole LOA/The Secret thing.

First let me say that I'm a Law of Attraction coach....have been for 5 years, long before The Secret mainstreamed LOA.

But here's my struggle.....Until a year ago, I sort of thought that people could use LOA as solely a tool for personal development....a way to improve their lives and get the things out of it that they wanted.(better job, family-life, material possession, $ etc)

But now it's SOOOO much deeper than that. I will admit even the first 2 times I saw The Secret, I still viewed it as a door to PD....but now as an LOA coach people assume that I'm not religious, but rather "spiritual". Most people find when I tell them I'm actually very religious, somehow they find that a contradiction.

So now, I'm starting to conclude (especially I felt it reinforced by impaul's post on the beginning of the end of The Secret) that LOA is actually a type of a religion.

And why I say that is because I have read with intensity for 2 months now as many threads on the Law of Attraction as I could. I have watched with disbelief in the last month the critics coming out of the woodwork. I was asked to be a keynote at a womens retreat and they asked what I thought about taking down The Secret advertisement because they felt it was anti-religious and didn't go with the beliefs of the women attending.

(Like I said, this isn't well thought out...just a ramble because of the confusion I'm in right now. Interestingly enough, The Secret was a HUGE boom for my business and now it's viewed a little more critical and Frankly....I haven't done ANYTHING different.

So.....any comments??

BTW, I'm Christian and I suppose that the re-incarnation thing is a bit odd although my beliefs do include an eternal or never ending spirit (as in....we didn't start "at birth" but our spirits are very old indeed)

[renie408]

I don't think that the LOA in and of itself is a religion. I think that people are hardwired to like the 'feel' of religion and they will worship just about anything, especially something that makes them feel good, in control and like they could have anything they want.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by annie

BTW, I'm Christian

I'm not. However I browse through Christianity-related books every now and then, and I have definitely come across Christian books which discuss the topic of the "power of prayer" from a very IM-sounding perspective.

In other words, I do not think that LOA (or the version as explained by, say, Steve Pavlina) is incompatible with Christianity (or any other religion). You are a Christian, so feel free to go on praying to Jesus, but while praying, do try these LOA suggestions:

(a) be calm, clear and focused

(b) believe deeply that what you ask for, will be given. It's called "faith".

(c) visualise

(d) pray with deepfelt emotions. Abraham-Hicks suggests love & joy as the best emotions. Jesus did too, as I recall.

(e) expect miracles. Don't worry about the "how", just focus on the desired outcome.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by renie408

I think that people are hardwired to like the 'feel' of religion and they will worship just about anything, especially something that makes them feel good, in control and like they could have anything they want.

There's some fundamental point I disagree with here .... I think this is it - organised religion often does not make people feel good. Rather - it makes them feel bad; bad that they are sinners; bad that they have desires; bad that they are to be punished by being sent to hell if they don't repent; bad that they are gay; bad that they aren't devoting themselves to God's purpose etc etc.

[renie408]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

There's some fundamental point I disagree with here .... I think this is it - organised religion often does not make people feel good. Rather - it makes them feel bad; bad that they are sinners; bad that they have desires; bad that they are to be punished by being sent to hell if they don't repent; bad that they are gay; bad that they aren't devoting themselves to God's purpose etc etc.

I didn't say it felt good, I said that people like the feel of it. Most people hang onto their bad feelings for dear life. For whatever reason, they like the feel of feeling bad.

[renie408]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I'm not. However I browse through Christianity-related books every now and then, and I have definitely come across Christian books which discuss the topic of the "power of prayer" from a very IM-sounding perspective.

In other words, I do not think that LOA (or the version as explained by, say, Steve Pavlina) is incompatible with Christianity (or any other religion). You are a Christian, so feel free to go on praying to Jesus, but while praying, do try these LOA suggestions:

(a) be calm, clear and focused

(b) believe deeply that what you ask for, will be given. It's called "faith".

(c) visualise

(d) pray with deepfelt emotions. Abraham-Hicks suggests love & joy as the best emotions. Jesus did too, as I recall.

(e) expect miracles. Don't worry about the "how", just focus on the desired outcome.

Yep. I don't think it is so much that the LOA is a religion as it is that religion is compatible with the LOA.

This might be one of those 'chicken or the egg' things, though.

[annie]

Well, if it's not a religion (and I'm not totally convinced) it sure has a lot of similarities

1) people are drawn to it because it feels right/good and yet there are plenty of critics that find all the holes in it
2) It is centered around your thoughts and the principle of free will (I'm sure this is debatable and yet that rings true for my religion)
3) Discussions of both LOA and religion can lead to discussion about "purpose" etc

How about discounting "the how"....very similar to how some religions discount works in complete favor of "faith" whereas other religions involves works (or actions...LOA)

Oh....and in the religious community...The Secret is taking a HUGE hit as the latest tool of Satan to get us to take God out of everything.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by annie

Oh....and in the religious community...The Secret is taking a HUGE hit as the latest tool of Satan to get us to take God out of everything.

Watch this.

[renie408]

Originally Posted by annie

Well, if it's not a religion (and I'm not totally convinced) it sure has a lot of similarities

1) people are drawn to it because it feels right/good and yet there are plenty of critics that find all the holes in it
2) It is centered around your thoughts and the principle of free will (I'm sure this is debatable and yet that rings true for my religion)
3) Discussions of both LOA and religion can lead to discussion about "purpose" etc

How about discounting "the how"....very similar to how some religions discount works in complete favor of "faith" whereas other religions involves works (or actions...LOA)

Oh....and in the religious community...The Secret is taking a HUGE hit as the latest tool of Satan to get us to take God out of everything.

Actually, I checked the definition of 'religion' and the way certain people pursue the LOA probably would qualify as a 'religion'. But I don't think that it has to be religious. I think you can take a secular approach to the LOA and simply regard it as a kind of universal law like gravity.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by renie408

I didn't say it felt good, I said that people like the feel of it. Most people hang onto their bad feelings for dear life. For whatever reason, they like the feel of feeling bad.

Because the bad they can really feel and the good is not such a strong sensation.

Originally Posted by annie

Oh....and in the religious community...The Secret is taking a HUGE hit as the latest tool of Satan to get us to take God out of everything.

Well it does take God out of everything. Creation is now a recipe, where did the essence go? There's no feminine flow really. The religious people are saying its a tool of satan for other reasons, but I can see what the 'universe' is trying to convey by their statement.

LOA and The Secret are a good start, it is not the final chapter though.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Dharma

Well it does take God out of everything.

Well that really depends on your perspective. One could just as well take the view that LOA puts God back into everything.

In fact, I'm kinda inclined to the view that Jesus was a pretty awesome IM'er.

[Paul C]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Well that really depends on your perspective. One could just as well take the view that LOA puts God back into everything.

In fact, I'm kinda inclined to the view that Jesus was a pretty awesome IM'er.

I Agree. Considering that there is no true separation. Unless of course one was to believe that god is a separate entity that exercises bias.

[Yev]

Let me state my bias up-front. I am not a Christian.

I don't think that LoA/"The Secret" qualifies fully as a religion, but it certainly has some features of a religion. It very much faith based. Just like the bible, if you believe it, then it makes sense. Science works the other way around - if it makes sense then you believe it.

Even though I do not see it as a religion, in my understanding it would be un-Christian. Christianity specifically forbids sorcery and spirit communication. I think there is a strong link between "The Secret" and both sorcery and spirit communication. In the same way, using a Ouija Board is not a religion, but it is very un-Christian.

Although ALG and others have made a comparison with Jesus as the uber IM'er I don't think that would go down well with the Christian fundamentalists. Christians would say that you can have all the things that "The Secret" promises, but you should direct your prayers to God via Jesus and not use a short circuit direct to The Universe.

If I were a Christian I suspect that I would have even more of a problem with LoA/"The Secret" than I do already.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Yev

Christianity specifically forbids sorcery and spirit communication.

So you Christians out there better knock off that lighting of candles for peoples' souls and praying to saints. And quit reading your horoscope, for heaven's sake!

[Rocket Surgery]

Originally Posted by annie

The Secret is taking a HUGE hit as the latest tool of Satan to get us to take God out of everything.

Ah, yes....

Where would Christianity be without Satan?
What a convenient character he is to keep control
over all the sheeple.

They are like the ignorant parent -- too lazy to learn
how to positively communicate with children, he
conjures up a fictional bogeyman to terrorize the child
into submission to authority.

Thanks for all the nightmares, Father. Hark, is that YOUR voice
I hear, telling me to murder all those who would disagree with me?

~ RS

[themaster]

You’re not the only one to call it a religion.. to me it is a religion based on Abraham-hicks teachings which talk about life after death..

Obviously though since reality is subjective.. others may not feel it is a religion..

To me though this is the only religion I've ever seen that may make a lick of sense.. that's why I find it so interesting..

If it were not classified as a religion then I was call it a mind re-programming based on concepts by Steve Pinker (psychologist not LOA practioner for those wanting to know.)

Also since I'm making a argument for LOA or IM as a religion let me also point out one other piece of evidence I know..

The Jesus religion has what I believe is called sects.. you have christianity, Judaism, mormons, catholics (hell if I know.. 1,000 sects goes here)

The same can be said for LOA and IM teachers.. if there is a core to this religion (based on my research which is.. limited to not a long term study) it starts with Seth, Abraham-Hicks and a guy who wrote a book 1900's - 1940's (that's where my knowledge ends).

This religion like others.. has sects.. those sects if you will break off and teach it without the "Life after death" taught I believe by Seth and Abraham-hicks. They teach their methods.. to me this is just a small piece of evidence again confirming religion.. you have various teachers, teaching various methods.. and sometimes skipping what is the true teachings (if there is a true teaching)

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Yev

It very much faith based. Just like the bible, if you believe it, then it makes sense. Science works the other way around - if it makes sense then you believe it.

That depends on (1) which religion you're talking about, and (2) which attitude you take towards LOA.

Buddha said in effect, "Don't believe any of my teachings, unless you test it with your own experience, and personally find them to be true."

I take the same approach with LOA. It need not be "faith-based". You can deliberately experiment and test it, as I have been (and still am) doing.

Even though I do not see it as a religion, in my understanding it would be un-Christian. Christianity specifically forbids sorcery and spirit communication. I think there is a strong link between "The Secret" and both sorcery and spirit communication. In the same way, using a Ouija Board is not a religion, but it is very un-Christian.

Actually I see lots of LOA/IM principles in the Bible. "Ask and it shall be given", "Faith can move mountains" etc.

Although ALG and others have made a comparison with Jesus as the uber IM'er I don't think that would go down well with the Christian fundamentalists. Christians would say that you can have all the things that "The Secret" promises, but you should direct your prayers to God via Jesus and not use a short circuit direct to The Universe.

True. But by this definition, Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, Jainism etc would also be un-Christian, so LOA may be in esteemed company.

Anyway, I have been trying to help Annie reconcile her issues. My suggestion is that she worship as a Christian, but try putting some IM/LOA into her worship. Eg visualise, emotionalise when praying to Jesus; articulate your prayer in positive terms. That can't be "un-Christian", surely.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by themaster

You’re not the only one to call it a religion.. to me it is a religion based on Abraham-hicks teachings which talk about life after death..

But you see, LOA doesn't come from Abraham-Hicks. The application of LOA also does not depend on Abraham-Hicks.

Brian Tracy, for example, discusses LOA in a completely secular, non-spiritual, un-mystical way. He just says, "Visualise .... Spend time alone ... Turn your issues over to your subsconscious .... Attack your limiting beliefs .... and you will attract the events, opportunities etc into your life at exactly the right time that you need them".

No mention of God, spirits, non-physical beings, reincarnation, supernatural forces etc.

[renie408]

Originally Posted by Dharma

Because the bad they can really feel and the good is not such a strong sensation.

I don't think so. I think that the ego requires the bad to maintain the illusion of separateness it craves. I think that is why people identify so strongly with 'bad' things. I have been listening to Eckhart Tolle and he describes the egos need for separation as being so strong that it will cling even to bad feelings to maintain it.

[annie]

Originally Posted by themaster

The Jesus religion has what I believe is called sects.. you have christianity, Judaism, mormons, catholics (hell if I know.. 1,000 sects goes here)

The same can be said for LOA and IM teachers.. if there is a core to this religion (based on my research which is.. limited to not a long term study) it starts with Seth, Abraham-Hicks and a guy who wrote a book 1900's - 1940's (that's where my knowledge ends).

This religion like others.. has sects.. those sects if you will break off and teach it without the "Life after death" taught I believe by Seth and Abraham-hicks. They teach their methods.. to me this is just a small piece of evidence again confirming religion.. you have various teachers, teaching various methods.. and sometimes skipping what is the true teachings (if there is a true teaching)

yes, this is what I'm coming to find. Like religion, there are many different faces or ways that people interpret LOA. There just may be 1 true "religion"....the way it really is (TRUTH) and there may be just 1 way LOA really works............but people have their own experience, their own opinions, their own definitions.

I haven't even participated much in my own thread because arguing LOA feels the same as arguing religion....what's the point?

But the discussions are definitely food for thought. I've learned from them. I've learned what others have experience and how they perceive things which always adds to the experience.

Just a few more thoughts are far as LOA and religion goes...

LOA is compatible with Christianity if it's viewed as something similar to faith. And that's exactly how I view the LOA...a tool to control my thoughts, to help me set goals and achieve them to better my life!

LOA is not compatible with Christianity when it's definition includes that God has no will. That He is non-existent in your life, doesn't matter, doesn't care etc.

I came to the conclusion years ago that God and Universal Laws live side-by-side. Either He created these Universal Laws or they have co-existed in the eternities together and He lives by them also. I absolutely don't believe that there is a God that micro-manages us.

I'm just certain there is a way that these things all work together that is well beyond our understanding.

[renie408]

But isn't it more accurate to say that the LOA has been co-opted by PEOPLE who want it to be a religion? The actual LOA is just the theory that like attracts like...period. It's the PEOPLE who have turned it into a religion. Just like Buddhism. I have heard many Buddhists say that Buddhism is more accurately a philosophy and not a religion. But still there are people who WANT it to be a religion. The LOA has been 'religious-ified', but the theory itself is not religious.