The Beginning of the End for The Secret?

[JPX]

Some of the panelists from The Secret were on Larry King Live tonight. I was looking forward to another LKL filled with positive energy, but was surprised to see a very negative tone developing throughout the entire show.

The phone calls and the emails Larry fielded live were mostly from people doubting the concept of the Law of Attraction, asking questions and throwing shots about 9/11, Katrina, and illness.

- James Ray was asked how come his seminar is so expensive. He was visibly shocked and caught off-guard by the question.

- John Assaraf was asked if he is a neuroscientist or qualified to be discussing the human brain.

- Lisa Nichols said that 100% of lottery winners end up worse off financially than before winning the loterry. That is obviously not true. Studies have found that a large percentage of lottery winners blow their money and end up back in debt, but it's not 100%. That comment took some credibility away from her.

- Joe Vitale said that Jessica Lunsford, the little girl who was raped and killed in Florida, attracted that to herself (a very controversial subject of course), and then mentioned that there are "more secrets" that will be revealed in the sequel to The Secret. Larry King was not very impressed with that, and it made the entire Secret sound even more commercial than it really is.

- Dr. Robi Ludwick tried to be very politically correct about it, but sounded very skeptical about the entire concept.

There is obviously an enormous backlash going on against The Secret, and I don't think tonight's LKL helped the cause. I think tonight was the night that many people said "screw this" and are going back to their old ways.

And that is a true shame. I believe in the Law of Attraction because I'm living it and seeing amazing results in my own life, and I liked The Secret, but I think the Law of Attraction is so wildly misunderstood that it's getting a bad rap.

And of course, the way the movie and book have been comercialized, and the way some of the "teachers" commercialize their own products and services, hasn't helped convert the skeptics.

The Secret, and unfortunately the Law of Attraction, took a brutal beating tonight on Larry King Live. I think The Secret (movie and book) had it coming, but the LoA needs to be studied more before it can be applied effectively.

So I hate to be so negative about something that is supposed to be so positive, but the writing is on the wall. Stick a fork in it. The Secret is done.

[Athena]

eeee did anyone tape this!!??


I too agree that the principles in LoA have some truth to them, but are presented way too extreme and polarized to be completely true.


I am surprised no one can see yet, that principles of LoA are balanced with other forces in the universe.

[Acting Like Godot]

You never really expected everyone to believe this, did you?

All in good time. Everyone who comes to it, comes in their own way. Some come through prayer, some come through meditation, some come through "positive thinking", some come through their understanding of karma, or quantum physics, or hypnosis, or psychology.

Others will come through "The Secret" or "Abraham Hicks" or "Wayne Dywer", or the "Higher Power" for Alcoholics Anonymous.

Whatever or whoever.

Those who come, will come. Those who won't, won't.

[Volunteer]

Vitale was a moron tonight on the show IMHO. To suggest that this little girl "attracted" this tragedy is idiotic.

[Elenny]

I also saw the show and was very disappointed by the negativity, but like I've said since the moment I watched "The Secret", 90% of the people who watch it will either not believe it, or will try it and give up within a couple of weeks. It's just the way we're programmed.

The folks on "The Secret" should also share some of the blame. Rhonda Byrne is now a millionaire, and the rest of them have also benefited greatly from the success of the movie, to the point where their official title is now "Secret Teacher" and not whatever they were before.

To reduce the power of the law of attraction to simply calling it "The Secret" is disgusting in my humble opinion.

A lot of those people who were turned off by the way "The Secret" was portrayed tonight, will go to Barnes & Noble or Amazon.com tomorrow and buy the next big thing that's going to make them a millionaire or cure their illnesses or bring the love of their life right to their front door.

These are the people who are always looking for the $19.95 quick-fix, but are not willing to invest anything else into it. Like Dr. Ludwick said tonight, "whatever works for you".

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by Volunteer

Vitale was a moron tonight on the show IMHO. To suggest that this little girl "attracted" this tragedy is idiotic.

"Dr." Vitale is definitely the "weak link" here. He's the one that says "Want $25K in unexpected income within 30 days? Just ask for it." I think that one scene turns off a lot of people.

One of the problems many of them have is that they call themselves "Doctor". They are not doctors. Not M.D.s. Not Ph.D.s. Skeptics can have a field day revealing that their doctorates are from diploma mills. Dr. John Gray got busted over this a few years ago.

Lesson: If you don't have a real doctorate or M.D., don't call yourself a "doctor".

[dor]

Originally Posted by Elenny

I also saw the show and was very disappointed by the negativity, but like I've said since the moment I watched "The Secret", 90% of the people who watch it will either not believe it, or will try it and give up within a couple of weeks. It's just the way we're programmed.

i believe:
our minds are much, much much more powerful than we believe
there is more - far more - out there than what we know at the moment .....
I believe in the power of visualization and that the mind - (if you can even pinpoint what that is - its not just in the brain) functions outside the 5 senses in addition to them.

All that said, I was put off by the hokeyness, the inaccurate statements, and some of the presenters - i'll use ray as an example - were just quoting quotes of quotes and really didn't know what they were talking about.

I think the secret brings a great message but its also got flaws, like most of us. the inaccurate statements opened it up for ridicule especially when the presenters claimed that 'science proves' a postive thought is a hundred times more power than a negative thought - or they call themselves 'dr' and their 'doctrate' is from a diploma mill (Vitale).

Canfield was the only credible person on there, maybe wolfe as well....but even he has disclaimed some of it.

when anything spirtual crosses the line over into science they immediately demand scrutny.

if a priest says - you're sick pray to God to heal - all fine and good

If he says, science proves prayer heals -if he's going to invoke scientific authority than he is subject to review.

that is the line that I make between science and spirituality the secret crosses it.

[Antiventurecapital]

I'm a pretty pragmatic person with a healthy dose of skepticism who has still gotten a lot out of The Secret. It showed me that I have a choice as to what I can think about (i.e., good stuff or bad). It also gave me the EGS which a fantastic tool. It also showed me that like most people I was really thinking most of the time about what I don't want. In addition, it made me get a gratitude rock and start my visualization again on a daily basis.

For all this I am deeply grateful.

However, I could have done without all the fake doctors, Joe Vitale, and the Feng Shui woman (groan). This stuff made me avoid telling others about the film.

Originally Posted by JPX

- Lisa Nichols said that 100% of lottery winners end up worse off financially than before winning the loterry. That is obviously not true. Studies have found that a large percentage of lottery winners blow their money and end up back in debt, but it's not 100%. That comment took some credibility away from her.

Lottery winners who were good at managing their money before winning do well with their windfall. They invest it, save it, and donate portions to good causes.

Conversely, the losers who can't manage their money always blow their winnings away. There was a recent story in the media about some fool who won about 230 million dollars a few years ago and was now filing for bankruptcy. I kid you not.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

There was a recent story in a media about some fool who won about 230 million dollars a few years ago and was now filing for bankruptcy. I kid you not.

Don't forget Mike Tyson. Elton John. Michael Jackson. Etc.

[Savage]

This is what happens when you start getting your polarities crossed.

[dor]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Don't forget Mike Tyson. Elton John. Michael Jackson. Etc.

if you spend $10.00 foolishly what's to keep you from spending 10 million likewise?

I have always said that if any private company aggresively marketed lotteries the way state governments do they'd be thrown in jail - and lets not forget the absurd fine print on those 100 million jackpots - paid out over x years- blah blah -considering that a great number and in some states the majority - of ticket buyers are on public assistance it's outright criminal


Nearly one-third of lottery winners become bankrupt.

“The CFP Board made an offer to the National Association of State and
Provincial Lotteries to provide the organization's members with
information to distribute to winners. The Investment News article
highlighted the lack of financial guidance many winners receive from
state lottery agencies; estimates show that nearly one-third of
lottery winners become bankrupt.”
Source: Certified Financial Planner Board of Standards, Inc
http://www.cfp-board.org/bulletin.html

[Antiventurecapital]

Tomorrow morning I will receive an email with a link to where I can see the show online. It will be interesting.

[Akashic_Librarian]

I am with Joe Vitale here.

Everything in your life you have attracted. I respect him for that forwardness.

If you can't see that. IF you just want to take the good and leave the bad hidden, then fine, but you won't get anywhere. If you honestly believe The Secret, The LoA, the Law of Vibration whatever you want to call it, is rubbish. Then fine. Be my guest. But those who do believe it really don't want to hear you moan about it every other post. Do you think you will get us to change our mind because of your opinions? I know from experience it works. I have had bad things happen in my life, not so bad as rape or murder or anything, but I have had bad things. And I am fully aware that I brought them into my life and I am ok with that!

If you don't want to take responsibilty get the hell of this forum, because this is for intelligent people, people who are willing to accept everything and then change it. Not put the bad things down to random chance!

And as a final thought why are you so anti-LoA, have you tried it? Have you Done it all correctly and failed numerous times? Or are you just clouded by stupid, socially conditioned prenotions about something? Think about it.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I am with Joe Vitale here.

Everything in your life you have attracted. I respect him for that forwardness.

If you can't see that. IF you just want to take the good and leave the bad hidden, then fine, but you won't get anywhere. If you honestly believe The Secret, The LoA, the Law of Vibration whatever you want to call it, is rubbish. Then fine. Be my guest. But those who do believe it really don't want to hear you moan about it every other post. Do you think you will get us to change our mind because of your opinions? I know from experience it works. I have had bad things happen in my life, not so bad as rape or murder or anything, but I have had bad things. And I am fully aware that I brought them into my life and I am ok with that!

If you don't want to take responsibilty get the hell of this forum, because this is for intelligent people, people who are willing to accept everything and then change it. Not put the bad things down to random chance!

And as a final thought why are you so anti-LoA, have you tried it? Have you Done it all correctly and failed numerous times? Or are you just clouded by stupid, socially conditioned prenotions about something? Think about it.

How about a clue as to who you are talking to?

Originally Posted by Volunteer

Vitale was a moron tonight on the show IMHO. To suggest that this little girl "attracted" this tragedy is idiotic.

People are so terrified of life that they need to cling to notions that they have total control over everything that happens to them. To admit otherwise is simply too frightening for them. At bottom it's a form of immaturity.

Personally, I think LoA is a great game to be played by fully functioning adults. But it's really dumb to try to use it to explain why a young girl is raped and murdered or another child is born with Down Syndrome or some other serious disability.

[JHL]

Originally Posted by Volunteer

Vitale was a moron tonight on the show IMHO. To suggest that this little girl "attracted" this tragedy is idiotic.

Volunteer, I dont understand. Isnt this precisely how LOA works? We attract what happens to us?

Or are you suggestiong that there is a force in addition to LOA that is operating as well? What else could have brought that tragedy upon her, if not herself?

I am with Joe Vitale here.

Everything in your life you have attracted.

So was Joe Vitale right, but just being insensitive? Or was he wrong about the LOA being responsible for the little girls tragic event?

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by JHL

Volunteer, I dont understand. Isnt this precisely how LOA works? We attract what happens to us?

Or are you suggestiong that there is a force in addition to LOA that is operating as well? What else could have brought that tragedy upon her, if not herself?



So was Joe Vitale right, but just being insensitive? Or was he wrong about the LOA being responsible for the little girls tragic event?

This is so unbelievably ************ed up, that I hope you are trolling us.

No one in their right mind could seriously suggest that a child attracted rape and murder.

I was watching a talk by Ken Wilbur last week where he called this New Age guilt fetish an absurdity. It's hard not to agree with him.

We need to avoid both extremes as the truth probably lies in the middle: we have more control than we often like to admit but are well short of being gods.

[Athena]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

We need to avoid both extremes as the truth probably lies in the middle: we have more control than we often like to admit but are well short of being gods.

YES!!!!!

We need to see the balance of forces that go on in any event and in any person's life, between the universe, nature, people, individual consciousness, mass consciousness, etc. Someone needs to put it together and give it a name and get it out there. LoA and The Secret is a step in the right direction away from religious teachings that God has all the power, and in giving more power to each person, but there is definitely a balance of forces here that is currently not showing in either extreme.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

People are so terrified of life that they need to cling to notions that they have total control over everything that happens to them. To admit otherwise is simply too frightening for them. At bottom it's a form of immaturity.

This is also why so many adults want to believe that the next life is more important than this one and that they will get to spend an eternity lounging about on a puffy cloud listening to angels playing harps.

Originally Posted by Athena

YES!!!!!

We need to see the balance of forces that go on in any event and in any person's life, between the universe, nature, people, individual consciousness, mass consciousness, etc. Someone needs to put it together and give it a name and get it out there. LoA and The Secret is a step in the right direction away from religious teachings that God has all the power, and in giving more power to each person, but there is definitely a balance of forces here that is currently not showing in either extreme.

I like Rhonda Byrnes and respect what she's done, but I roll my eyes when she says that you "don't have to grow old." Come again? She obviously a woman in her mid-fifties who is getting old. Hell, I'm getting old too despite climbing a mountain for 90 minutes today.

We are not gods.

[Akashic_Librarian]

You see, just by thinking you have no control, you don't!

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

You see, just by thinking you have no control, you don't!

Okay, you prove us wrong by, say, pulling a real life Dorian Gray.

Stop the aging process with your mind. Live forever. Then offer a seminar on how to become an immortal like the Highlander.

[JHL]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

This is so unbelievably ************ed up, that I hope you are trolling us.

No one in their right mind could seriously suggest that a child attracted rape and murder.

I was watching a talk by Ken Wilbur last week where he called this New Age guilt fetish an absurdity. It's hard not to agree with him.

We need to avoid both extremes as the truth probably lies in the middle: we have more control than we often like to admit but are well short of being gods.

No one in their right mind? But AVC, isnt this precisely what LOA believers believe in? Surely the fact that it was a little girl and the fact that it was a horrible, horrible event does not change how the law works? The law does not defer to our sense of morality, does it?

My personal beliefs are aligned with those of Ken Wilbur, who you mention above. I believe we are all co-creators. We can control what we do, but not the outcome thereof. That is in the hands of God/Universe, and all outcomes are governed by this higher wisdom which we cannot always understand. Our task in this life is to do our best, to be sure, but in choosing how we respond to what happens to us in life - this is what defines us.

I think the reason why LOA practicsioners leap to the defense of their art so vehemently is because it they havent reconciled what they believe about it fully without themselves. And concerning the case raised above with the little girl, its no wonder. Contradictions abound.

If the LOA was really the truth they understood it to be, nobody would feel the least bit inclined to defend it. Thats why the truth is such a wonderful, liberating thing to embrace - it needs no defense.

The LOA, apparently, requires a helluva lot.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

This is what happens when you start getting your polarities crossed.

Could you explain what you mean by this?

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

"Dr." Vitale is definitely the "weak link" here. He's the one that says "Want $25K in unexpected income within 30 days? Just ask for it." I think that one scene turns off a lot of people.

I think I'm probably the only guy on this whole forum who's actually bought Vitale's stuff from his website and I have to admit it's pretty awesome. He's actually totally not like what people describe him as. I believe that quote in the Secret was taken out of context or something because he totally talks about taking action in his actual products and he doesn't try to make it sound like you just sit around and do nothing.

The little girl rape thing has already been discussed on this forum countless times. True LOA believers believe we attract EVERYTHING. Steve's Subjective Reality model also believes the same thing. In other words Steve admits that in his subjective reality he CREATED Hitler, 9/11 etc. Or more accurately speaking, *I* created Steve, Hitler, 9/11, and you.

But these topics have already been discussed before

Even thought I feel the utmost sympathy for the little girl they are talking about I for one am not disappointed by Joe Vitale saying that he believes that little girl attracted that. It doesn't mean he's insensitive, it doesn't mean he's trying to be hurtful to the little girl (he didn't rape her), it simply means he truly believes in LoA 100% which means he has to accept that people attract everything. When a person wins $1M he attracted that, and when a person loses $1M he also attracted that too. When good things happen to people it's because they attract them, when bad things happen to people it's because they attract them as well. THat's just the concept of LoA. LoA doesn't have an age limit as to when you start to use it, so it's not like the little girl didn't have access to LoA at her age until she turns 18 or something, so if one was to believe in LoA and say that a 40 year old woman attracted a rape, then you have to say the same about a little girl. Also, LoA doesn't have some form of rule set where things like money and cars and toys CAN be attracted, but things like rape can't. If it actually exists, it has to work for everything.

Probably a better way to look at it is to take some of the emotionally charged aspect out of the discussion and ask yourself if you believe that if a farmer sitting in his living room drinking a glass of milk got hit by a meteor, did he attract that? If you think "Of course he didn't!" then you don't truly believe in LOA. If you truly believe in LoA, you have to believe that we attract EVERYTHING, including a meteor hitting you in the head.

[JHL]

Originally Posted by impaul99

Even thought I feel the utmost sympathy for the little girl they are talking about I for one am not disappointed by Joe Vitale saying that he believes that little girl attracted that. It doesn't mean he's insensitive, it doesn't mean he's trying to be hurtful to the little girl (he didn't rape her), it simply means he truly believes in LoA 100% which means he has to accept that people attract everything...

LoA doesn't have an age limit as to when you start to use it, so it's not like the little girl didn't have access to LoA at her age until she turns 18 or something, so if one was to believe in LoA and say that a 40 year old woman attracted a rape, then you have to say the same about a little girl.

Thanks for your straightforward answer Paul, I appreciate that you are consistent in your beliefs about LOA. Essentially, you're saying, the little girl is 100% responsible for the attack on her person.

So as a LOA practisioner Paul, how would you counsel little girls to avoid such a fate for themselves. What type of thoughts should they desist from thinking?

And cot deaths too, there are many of them and they are particularly traumatic for parents. So how would you counsel babies to think more positively? Or do we accept that we cant reason with babies and, frankly, its pot luck that they happen to not kill themselves with their own thoughts before they can be reached by reason?

Or does LOA only 'kick-in' after a certain age?

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by JHL

And cot deaths too, there are many of them and they are particularly traumatic for parents. So how would you counsel babies to think more positively? Or do we accept that we cant reason with babies and, frankly, its pot luck that they happen to not kill themselves with their own thoughts before they can be reached by reason?

Do babies think? What were your thoughts when you were a baby? How do we know that babies have thoughts?

[JHL]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

Do babies think? What were your thoughts when you were a baby? How do we know that babies have thoughts?

Very good questions Bitsy. But based on the principles of LOA something they are doing is attracting cot death to themselves. I'm rather hoping a LOA practisioner is going to tell us what.

[Dharma]

Please look at the bigger picture.

The Secret is a device which has sprung from the unconscious to introduce the masses to the concept of creating their own reality.

As for it being accurate, the first 10 minutes of The Secret will make any student of manifestation barf and roll on the floor in agony. But viewed in the light of, "oh, I get it, I'm introducing this concept to the unconscious parts of myself.... even though it is full of holes, it will support me to where I'm going. It is just the first step."

[dor]

Originally Posted by Dharma

Please look at the bigger picture.

The Secret is a device which has sprung from the unconscious to introduce the masses to the concept of creating their own reality.

As for it being accurate, the first 10 minutes of The Secret will make any student of manifestation barf and roll on the floor in agony. But viewed in the light of, "oh, I get it, I'm introducing this concept to the unconscious parts of myself.... even though it is full of holes, it will support me to where I'm going. It is just the first step."

it could turn a lot of people off as well.

I think the examples of the 12 year old girl are just awful I don't believe she 'attracted it' however i will say this - one of the most lucrative industries in america is victim hood- suing for 'emotional trauma' saying you are of this or that race so deserve this or that compensation because this or that happened to you or your ancestors- you get the picture....so there are some very very powerful forces around that don't want people to stop feeling victims -

anyway I would like to see is a secret for smart people or a secret for skeptics - that talked about these principles with REAL dr.s, and cited real facts, also a study of people using visulization principles would be neat - not in a cheesy reality show format - that's why i like reading people like acting lik godot's blog -a real person -not trying to sell you something - applying this stuff.

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by JHL

Very good questions Bitsy. But based on the principles of LOA something they are doing is attracting cot death to themselves. I'm rather hoping a LOA practisioner is going to tell us what.

I think it's all just speculation. People don't really know this, do they? As I see on these forums, if someone does answer, there will follow five more replies giving different approaches and answers and then my mind just shuts down, I forget the whole topic, I go back to what I do understand and to applying that in my life.

I think it is just best to take what you can apply to your own life and let go of over-analyzing and over-thinking everything. I don't have to know if a theoretical baby attracted its death or not, or if it was the parents who attracted it, or if a young girl attracts a rape. God knows these things and the truth of them is what it is. Maybe I'll know it some day, maybe I won't. In the meantime, I just work through my own life by my own understanding at the pace I can manage while not "throwing the baby out with the bath water" (sorry, no pun intended ) if there are things I don't understand.

[Beautiful Future]

Of course babies think - and they'll tell you they can too, at 120 decibels when they think they're hungry, wet or tired. I don't believe they think about much more than the stuff that makes them physically uncomfortable though. Their thoughts grow and change with what they learn, the longer they've been around, just like the rest of us.

'The Secret' has loads of value, but it makes me cringe when one of it's 'teachers' responds to a question with an answer that's quite clearly ridiculous to anyone who gave it any thought for more than two seconds strung together, or an answer that they have no means of backing up. I'd have the greatest respect for the teacher who actually admitted 'I don't know', perhaps going on to say that given the evidence we do have so far and the obvious power and potential of the LOA, then it's going to be well worth finding out. Even 'I don't know - I'll attract the answer!' would sit with me better.

I think that we're on the right path with the LOA and will see amazing leaps with what we produce as a result of the power that's inside of us and always has been, but if we take what the presenters of The Secret say as gospel, then we're just giving our personal power away to somebody else.