The Beginning of the End for The Secret?

[dor]

Originally Posted by renie408

You know, I am torn. One of the things that led me to exploring the LOA and my own inner workings was The Secret. But I was...whatever enough...to recognize that it was like an appetizer and not the whole enchilada, so I started doing some research and reading and asking a lot of questions and I spent a lot of time evaluating the answers. And it has led me to the most astounding growth in my personal development that I have ever been through. So, for that, I am grateful to The Secret and glad it was made.

But then, it is so cheesy and comes off like such an informercial and the 'teachers' from The Secret are now so much more caught up in selling it than TEACHING it that I am afraid to mention it to anybody for fear they are going to label me a naive kook.

I will not be sorry to see some of the hype die down. I am sorry that people are missing out on the real benefits of learning about how our attitudes effect our lives because they are put off by the excessive commercialization of The Secret.

I felt cheated- honestly cheated when I bough joe vitale - sorry dr. joe vitale's book I was turned off by his new agey medalian and some of the things he said, but i thought, what the hell, give it go. You want to talk about selling - nearly every page, and i do not exaggerate has a plug for his website or some cross promotion.

Lets keep in mind that all of these principles have been around a long time - and some are presented in much better form in books like Think and Grow Rich -Pyscho Cybrenetics, ect.

as stated earlier, I would love to see a more academic, serious version of the secret with real dr.s real research real facts.

[renie408]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

Me too.

Where has it led you? It's led me to a huge burst in PD too. It's like striking a vein in a goldmine, and then following all the other veins which connect to it.

I have only been pursuing this for about ten weeks and at the time I started, I was pretty seriously depressed. I still feel very much like I am just starting out. I have spent most of the past ten weeks weeding through theories and opinions and hype and, honestly, crap, to figure out what MY philosophy is.

What it has led me to is a greater sense of my own creative abilities and opportunities. I feel more at peace, I feel less crushed and depressed. I feel like my life is mine to make. I feel like we can have the things we want to make our lives comfortable and safe. I am learning to meditate. I still need work there. I have a hard time shutting my brain up. I am working on unconditional love and I am working on eliminating ego-based judgements. I feel like I am a better person, a better mother, a better wife. I am more content with my life.

We have manifested small things, but I am not sure I will ever be a champion manifester of STUFF. I don't think I am 'stuff' oriented enough. I like my stuff, but I am not sure I can focus a lot of energy in attaining 'stuff'. I want enough money to be safe and comfortable and we are well on our way to having that. I want a place for me and my dogs and horses and I feel like that is going to happen, where before I didn't. And mostly I just feel like I am...up to the task? It is hard to explain. I feel like I can handle 'it' now, whatever 'it' might be. Before I think a lot of my depression was related to feelings of being unprepared or inadequate or something. I don't have that now.

[renie408]

Originally Posted by dor

I felt cheated- honestly cheated when I bough joe vitale - sorry dr. joe vitale's book I was turned off by his new agey medalian and some of the things he said, but i thought, what the hell, give it go. You want to talk about selling - nearly every page, and i do not exaggerate has a plug for his website or some cross promotion.

Lets keep in mind that all of these principles have been around a long time - and some are presented in much better form in books like Think and Grow Rich -Pyscho Cybrenetics, ect.

as stated earlier, I would love to see a more academic, serious version of the secret with real dr.s real research real facts.

I bought Vitale's book and it wasn't my cup of tea, but I didn't feel cheated. And there is plenty of information out there, you have to go look for it. If you want to understand whether or not any of the science behind some of the claims in The Secret are real, google it. I did. You learn a lot and I am not just talking about whether or not The Secret stuff is for real. I learned all kinds of cool things about the molecular bonds of water when I was checking out the Emoto stuff. I ended up thinking the Emoto stuff was not very scientifically valid, but I did learn a lot about water.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by renie408

I have only been pursuing this for about ten weeks and at the time I started, I was pretty seriously depressed. I still feel very much like I am just starting out. I have spent most of the past ten weeks weeding through theories and opinions and hype and, honestly, crap, to figure out what MY philosophy is.

I resisted watching The Secret for a couple of months because of the terribly cheesy trailer, but then finally saw in it September after a long thread about it developed on a business board I post on. Since then I have been exploring all the veins that emanate from it. One big find has been Tapping.

[dor]

Originally Posted by renie408

I bought Vitale's book and it wasn't my cup of tea, but I didn't feel cheated..

Renei I explain why I didn't like his format in my book, Joe Vitale is a scam artist, if you visit my website at www. com , you'll find that ebook is available for 2.99. Of course you may have liked it, but that's probably because you're acctracting negative energy, my ebook 'living with negative energy" can help that. and if you take the supplments by friend Dr. Fraudster sells (in the resources link at the end of my post) you'll understand what i am saying is true

[renie408]

Originally Posted by dor

Renei I explain why I didn't like his format in my book, Joe Vitale is a scam artist, if you visit my website at www. com , you'll find that ebook is available for 2.99. Of course you may have liked it, but that's probably because you're acctracting negative energy, my ebook 'living with negative energy" can help that. and if you take the supplments by friend Dr. Fraudster sells (in the resources link at the end of my post) you'll understand what i am saying is true

Ok, that was funny.

And I get your point.

[renie408]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

I resisted watching The Secret for a couple of months because of the terribly cheesy trailer, but then finally saw in it September after a long thread about it developed on a business board I post on. Since then I have been exploring all the veins that emanate from it. One big find has been Tapping.

What is 'tapping'? Are you talking about EFT? Cause I read about that and thought it was a bit far-fetched. To be dead honest, I didn't try it. But I am game for anything. If somebody I think sounds reasonable says something works, I will try it.

But before I go thumping on my forehead, you are talking about EFT, right??

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by renie408

What is 'tapping'? Are you talking about EFT? Cause I read about that and thought it was a bit far-fetched. To be dead honest, I didn't try it. But I am game for anything. If somebody I think sounds reasonable says something works, I will try it.

But before I go thumping on my forehead, you are talking about EFT, right??

The Science of Tapping - Tapping.com

[renie408]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

The Science of Tapping - Tapping.com

That's EFT, all right.

I think I will wander over to Gary Craig's site and check it out. Thanks for the info.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by renie408

That's EFT, all right.

I think I will wander over to Gary Craig's site and check it out. Thanks for the info.

Use tapping.com's free tapping videos.

[fretho]

Originally Posted by renie408

That's EFT, all right.

I think I will wander over to Gary Craig's site and check it out. Thanks for the info.

Check out the wikipedia entry on it. Apparently it works great, but tapping on an inanimate object such as a doll or using non-meridian points gets just as good of an effect.

When you think about it, all the EFT involves besides tapping is powerful enough to have a profound effect, particularly if you are in a suggestible state, which tapping something steadily for several minutes just might induce.

Not trying to discourage anyone from trying it -- I think it works great, even if it's not for the reasons they think it is.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by fretho

Check out the wikipedia entry on it. Apparently it works great, but tapping on an inanimate object such as a doll or using non-meridian points gets just as good of an effect.

When you think about it, all the EFT involves besides tapping is powerful enough to have a profound effect, particularly if you are in a suggestible state, which tapping something steadily for several minutes just might induce.

Not trying to discourage anyone from trying it -- I think it works great, even if it's not for the reasons they think it is.

Show some people that the sun's out and they will argue that it's really night.

Everything has its attackers especially when it's new.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by JHL

Thanks for your straightforward answer Paul, I appreciate that you are consistent in your beliefs about LOA. Essentially, you're saying, the little girl is 100% responsible for the attack on her person.

So as a LOA practisioner Paul, how would you counsel little girls to avoid such a fate for themselves. What type of thoughts should they desist from thinking?

And cot deaths too, there are many of them and they are particularly traumatic for parents. So how would you counsel babies to think more positively? Or do we accept that we cant reason with babies and, frankly, its pot luck that they happen to not kill themselves with their own thoughts before they can be reached by reason?

Or does LOA only 'kick-in' after a certain age?

Ok, to answer this I'll share with you a realization I had recently that I'm not going to get into TOO much as it would take too long to explain and I'd rather focus that energy into writing an article on my blog about it, but essentially you have to realize that our spirits have ego's. Meaning, you have to first believe that when we die (biological death), our spirit/soul that's left-over outside of the body has an ego even when it is outside of the body on earth. So, if you believe in the concept of re-incarnation, it's not like you have an ego full of fears as a body, and then you die and become a pure/perfect/loving spirit and then you re-incarnate as a body and are fearful again. I believe that our fears/ego stay with us throughout our lives as different bodies.

If we became perfectly enlightened spirits the second we died a biological death just because we've shed our body shell, then the secret to helping all spirits become fully enlightened would be to just devise a weapon that could kill everyone on earth in a painless-instant or some crazy thing like that. And really the most enlightened thing for a person to do once they realize the spiritual world exists would be to committ suicide, but I don't believe that solves anything because your spirit continues on with an ego.

So, I didn't fully explain it all, but just assume I'm correct above. Then that would mean that when we are born, as a baby, we already have an ego. In other words, we could have been a 80 year old woman in our previous lifetime and it's easy to accept that we had an ego then, but now that we've re-incarnated as a baby it's hard to first realize that we have an ego. I believe we do. So, the baby itself has fears from all their lifetimes and if they were afraid of water in their previous life, they will be afraid of water in this life as well, unless they overcome that fear. So, the little girl who "attracted" the rapist, possibly had a fear of that, even if that fear was subconcious. That fear is coming from her spirit which might be 10,000 years old even if the little girl is only 5 years old. Does that kind of make sense?

The reason we have a hard time believing a baby can bring on pain onto themselves is because we see a baby as being innocent. We kind of look at it like "Well, that baby didn't do anything to anyone! Why would it deserve to be abused!?" But if you believe that that babies spirit was alive before the baby was born, and maybe led thousands of lives before, then you'd see that it has brought it onto itself.

Think of it this way. Hitler commits suicide. He goes back to the spirit world and then re-incarnates as a little baby girl. At 4 years old she gets killed by someone in a drive by shooting. Does that baby girl deserve to die in your eyes? Does the "slate" get wiped between re-incarnations? Does the baby girl (really it's Hitlers spirit) deserve to live a long life full of prosperity and happyness when in the last lifetime it committed so much crime against others etc.?

So, if you believe that every baby is born without ego, without fear, with a clean slate, without the smallest ounce of negative energy in them to even worry about things like drowning or being raped or being beaten, then LOA would make no sense when babies get abused. If you believe that our fears, our ego's, our energy travels with us from lifetime to lifetime, then it's a different story.

How would I counsel the little girl? Counseling might not be what's needed at that age. I might instead try to connect with her spirit through meditation and try to help it heal so that it doesn't create such negative events in the little girls life. The little girl's suffering in this physical world is just a projection of her spirits suffering in the spiritual world. THat's what needs to be healed.

I know i'm not offering every answer, but hope this helps to offer one perspective of how you could look at it.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by impaul99

So, if you believe that every baby is born without ego, without fear, with a clean slate, without the smallest ounce of negative energy in them to even worry about things like drowning or being raped or being beaten, then LOA would make no sense when babies get abused. If you believe that our fears, our ego's, our energy travels with us from lifetime to lifetime, then it's a different story.

Nonsense. Total rubbish.

Here's why babies have terrible things happen to them. Babies are born in Original Sin and therefore deserve only suffering and hell because some teen bimbo ate the forbidden fruit 6000 years ago.

[renie408]

Originally Posted by impaul99

So, I didn't fully explain it all, but just assume I'm correct above.

And why exactly are we supposed to assume that?

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by renie408

And why exactly are we supposed to assume that?

My explanation for suffering is much more plausible.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

Nonsense. Total rubbish.

Here's why babies have terrible things happen to them. Babies are born in Original Sin and therefore deserve only suffering and hell because some teen bimbo ate the forbidden fruit 6000 years ago.

Actually, the reincarnation concept is a much more Buddhist/Hindu one than a Christian one.

Of course, if you still say: "Nonsense. Total rubbish", you are probably dismissing, in one fell swoop:

two or three major religions; lots of spiritual teachings that don't subscribe to any particular religion; a lot of research into phenomena like past-life regression hypnosis and near-death experiences etc.

I'm not telling you what to believe or not believe. I'm just pointing out the implications, when you casually dismiss, at one single go, impaul99's explanation, ""Nonsense. Total rubbish".

[renie408]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

Nonsense. Total rubbish.

Here's why babies have terrible things happen to them. Babies are born in Original Sin and therefore deserve only suffering and hell because some teen bimbo ate the forbidden fruit 6000 years ago.

I think I love you.

[renie408]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Actually, the reincarnation concept is a much more Buddhist/Hindu one than a Christian one.

Of course, if you still say: "Nonsense. Total rubbish", you are probably dismissing, in one fell swoop:

two or three major religions; lots of spiritual teachings that don't subscribe to any particular religion; a lot of research into phenomena like past-life regression hypnosis and near-death experiences etc.

I'm not telling you what to believe or not believe. I'm just pointing out the implications, when you casually dismiss, at one single go, impaul99's explanation, ""Nonsense. Total rubbish".

I don't think reincarnation is total rubbish. But I also don't think that children who are raped and murdered are 'getting what they deserve' because they earned it in an earlier life. That sounds like a way to make people accept bad things and still believe in the multiple religions you mentioned. That kind of thinking has that 'opiate of the masses' feel to it to me.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Actually, the reincarnation concept is a much more Buddhist/Hindu one than a Christian one.

Of course, if you still say: "Nonsense. Total rubbish", you are probably dismissing, in one fell swoop:

two or three major religions; lots of spiritual teachings that don't subscribe to any particular religion; a lot of research into phenomena like past-life regression hypnosis and near-death experiences etc.

I'm not telling you what to believe or not believe. I'm just pointing out the implications, when you casually dismiss, at one single go, impaul99's explanation, ""Nonsense. Total rubbish".

I am always amazed by people's need to believe that they are doomed in this life from the get-go. I refer to it as the "guilt fetish". Whether it's because of Original Sin or having been Hitler in a previous life, it's all the same fetish for self-flagellation.

I spent 12 years in a private Catholic boys' school thinking "The only thing I'm guilty of is having been born. The rest is all a blank slate."

Here's another interpretation of suffering. We are biological creatures in a physical world who are programmed to live for about 70 years. During that period both good and bad things happen to us for readily explainable reasons. Sometimes, you really just are in the wrong place at the wrong time. The scum who murdered the little girl probably stalked her for weeks until an opportunity presented itself for abduction.

I suggest that people read the thoughts of physicists on this issue. Many will tell you that what strikes them the most about the universe is its utter indifference to us.

Occam's Razor, folks. Use it.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by renie408

I think I love you.

I hope you're female.

[renie408]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

I hope you're female.

Yes, but I meant that in a spiritual kind of way.

[renie408]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

I am always amazed by people's need to believe that they are doomed in this life from the get-go. I refer to it as the "guilt fetish". Whether it's because of Original Sin or having been Hitler in a previous life, it's all the same fetish for self-flagellation.

I spent 12 years in a private Catholic boys' school thinking "The only thing I'm guilty of is having been born. The rest is all a blank slate."

Here's another interpretation of suffering. We are biological creatures in a physical world who are programmed to live for about 70 years. During that period both good and bad things happen to us for readily explainable reasons. Sometimes, you really just are in the wrong place at the wrong time. The scum who murdered the little girl probably stalked her for weeks until an opportunity presented itself for abduction.

I suggest that people read the thoughts of physicists on this issue. Many will tell you that what strikes them the most about the universe is its utter indifference to us.

Occam's Razor, folks. Use it.

Nobody wants to die. I want to really believe in some kind of 'soul energy recycling' deal. But even if I get there, I still don't think I could believe that your soul accrues credits or debits that follow you from life to life. Or that if it did, you could be killed for them before you even get a chance to 'settle your debt'. If the theory behind reincarnation is that you keep coming back til you grow enough that you don't need to anymore, how fair is it to kill you when you are a baby? How were you supposed to have grown any? Or does that 'even the score' and the next time you come back you get a chance to live longer? And how in the hell does anybody KNOW this stuff is right anyway? And why would somebody find it more easy to believe all of that than that we just live and die and Bob's your Uncle?

[Acting Like Godot]

As I have mentioned before, I am a skeptic by nature.

Thus I also did not believe in reincarnation. However, the possibility that it could be true involves several Big Questions About Existence, which I felt that I owed to myself, to investigate.

Never mind what others may or may not believe - I felt I owed a duty to myself, to answer my own questions, or at least make an attempt to do so.

Hence I personally underwent past-life regression hypnosis. In fact the hypnotherapist discouraged me. That was because I did not actually have burning issues in my present lifetime, to investigate by checking my past lives.

Nevertheless I insisted. I visited two past lives. So now, instead of merely impaul's theories, or renie408's theories, or antiventurecapital's theories about why reincarnation is or is not true, I have personal experience to rely on.

For those who aren't as skeptical and inquiring as me, you can still go some way - by seriously reading up on topics like past-life regression hypnosis and near-death experiences ....... before you commit yourself to some definite opinion in your own mind.


In the area of past-life regression hypnosis, we owe a lot to the work of a very courageous man by the name of Dr Brian Weiss. He was a highflying psychiatrist, with top qualifications from top universities, he was heading a department in a major hospital etc etc. He stumbled on past-life regression hypnosis. For years he kept his research a secret, knowing that if it were released, it would jeorpardise his career .... imagine it - the head of a department of a respectable hospital in the United States, believing in past lives!

Eventually he felt that that the potential value of his research was worth jeopardising his career for. And so he went public anyway. Brave man.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by renie408

Nobody wants to die. I want to really believe in some kind of 'soul energy recycling' deal.

We were told as kids that in the afterlife we would live for eternity, and I was overcome with sadness and nausea. Nothing should go on forever except for the big sleep. Everything will become tedious and boring after a million years or so.

The Big Sleep: that's all I want after this life.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

As I have mentioned before, I am a skeptic by nature.

Thus I also did not believe in reincarnation. However, the possibility that it could be true involves several Big Questions About Existence, which I felt that I owed to myself, to investigate.

Never mind what others may or may not believe - I felt I owed a duty to myself, to answer my own questions, or at least make an attempt to do so.

Hence I personally underwent past-life regression hypnosis. In fact the hypnotherapist discouraged me. That was because I did not actually have burning issues in my present lifetime, to investigate by checking my past lives.

Nevertheless I insisted. I visited two past lives. So now, instead of merely impaul's theories, or renie408's theories, or antiventurecapital's theories about why reincarnation is or is not true, I have personal experience to rely on.

For those who aren't as skeptical and inquiring as me, you can still go some way - by seriously reading up on topics like past-life regression hypnosis and near-death experiences ....... before you commit yourself to some definite opinion in your own mind.

Hey, a long time ago a psychic told me that I had been a valiant officer in a Roman Legion. Or was it a knight in shining armor? My memory has faded over 30 years.

However, all men were warriors and all women were princesses in their past lives.

Funny how no one was a janitor in a past life.

[DanielBrenton]

A couple of comments:

I do feel there is a "big money" attitude surrounding The Secret, and this frankly puts me off to the product line.

I recently bought the DVD, and when I went to thesecret.tv I could not find a way of purchasing the DVD without becoming a registered member. Free or not, that meant I'd have to cough up some information for them, and I feel pretty confident that if I did do this (and if I was honest about it) I'd wind up on their spam list.

I'm sorry, but I DON'T LIKE SPAM!!!!!!

So I bought it on Amazon, and found a comment form on thesecret.tv and left a note that I was put off by this.

I wasn't surprised that I didn't get a response.

The bottom line here is that this is really another packaging of very old wisdom. I remember variations of this twenty years ago, and it wouldn't surprise me if you could trace it all the way back through recorded history.

As for attracting tragedy -- I remember Ruth Montgomery making the assertion in the 1960s that we choose our parents before we incarnate. (I suspect a certain psychic medium many of us know and love would say exactly the same thing.) So how is this different than being responsible for everything that happens in our lives? How is this different from attracting tragedy?

Joe Vitale had the audacity of saying something politically incorrect in the media's arena, which is one of our world's mechanisms for helping us escape a sense of responsibility for our lives. Yes, he's going to get slammed. As Voltaire said, "we should not be disappointed when a fig tree produces figs."

[renie408]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

As I have mentioned before, I am a skeptic by nature.

Thus I also did not believe in reincarnation. However, the possibility that it could be true involves several Big Questions About Existence, which I felt that I owed to myself, to investigate.

Never mind what others may or may not believe - I felt I owed a duty to myself, to answer my own questions, or at least make an attempt to do so.

Hence I personally underwent past-life regression hypnosis. In fact the hypnotherapist discouraged me. That was because I did not actually have burning issues in my present lifetime, to investigate by checking my past lives.

Nevertheless I insisted. I visited two past lives. So now, instead of merely impaul's theories, or renie408's theories, or antiventurecapital's theories about why reincarnation is or is not true, I have personal experience to rely on.

For those who aren't as skeptical and inquiring as me, you can still go some way - by seriously reading up on topics like past-life regression hypnosis and near-death experiences ....... before you commit yourself to some definite opinion in your own mind.

But you must therefore understand how I cannot just accept Acting Like Godot's theories for why reincarnation is true, right? It is true for you because you believe in your past life regression experience. I have a friend who as been through past life regression and really felt like it did a lot for her. And while I still don't consider that evidence of the reincarnation of a complete sentient spirit, I am glad for her that she has felt a sense of relief from what she went through. My problem with past life regression is that the mind is very complex and very suggestible. I figure I could pretty easily talk myself into my prior life as a Russian peasent if I really needed to. I swear I am not discounting your experience, just explaining why I can't take your past life regression as proof of anything. I am not sure I would take my own past life regression as proof of anything.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

The Big Sleep: that's all I want after this life.

That's what Dr Elizabeth Kubler Ross wanted too. She was a doctor and psychiatrist with a list of qualifications that looks like this:

Doctor of Science, H.C., Albany Medical College, New York 1974
Doctor of Laws, University of Notre Dame, IN.,1974
Doctor of Science, Smith College 1975
Doctor of Science, Molley College, Rockville Center, NY, 1976
Doctor of Humanities, St. Mary's College, Notre Dame, IN. 1975
Doctor of Laws, Hamline University, MN. 1975
Doctor of Humane Letters, Amherst College, MA. 1975
Doctor of Humane Letters, Loyola University, IL 1975
Doctor of Humane Letters, Bard College, New York, 1977
Doctor of Humanities, Hood College, MD 1976
Doctor of Letters, Rosary College, IL. 1976
Doctor of Pedagogy, Keuka College, NY 1976
Doctor of Humane Science, University of Miami, FL 1976
Doctor of Humane Letters, Bard College, NY 1977
Doctor of Science, Weston MA., 1977
Honorary Degree, Anna Maria College, MA., 1978
Doctor of Humane Letters, Union College, New York 1978
Doctor of Humane Letters, D'Youville College, New York 1979
Doctor of Science, Fairleigh Dickinson University, 1979
Doctor of Divinity, 1996

Well, she probably got her Big Sleep. Because she had an intense mystical experience, where a non-physical being told her that this lifetime on planet earth would be her last lifetime on planet lifetime. She passed away in 2004.

[renie408]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

Hey, a long time ago a psychic told me that I had been a valiant officer in a Roman Legion. Or was it a knight in shining armor? My memory has faded over 30 years.

However, all men were warriors and all women were princesses in their past lives.

Funny how no one was a janitor in a past life.

Play nice. He didn't say what he was. For me, I cannot say he didn't have this experience or that it wasn't genuine. I can only say that I do not find his account of his experience compelling evidence for the validity of reincarnation. I still find it more plausible that we are NOT brought back as whole spiritual entities from life to life. I might buy that some form of our soul's energy goes back into the 'general pool' and is reused. But I currently to not think it would be ME that came back.