If you don't believe in the Law of Attraction, does it still work?

[smartile]

It seems that there are two different trains of thought on this topic. You either believe in the Law of Attraction or you don't. And if you don't believe it, does it still work? Thoughts?

Steve

[Angela]

What a handsome fellow you are, Steve!

Yes. My experience and observation is that even if you don't believe in it or distinguish it, the tendency to get what you focus on, and what you vibrate in resonance with, still operates.

[codenamesmiley]

Originally Posted by smartile

It seems that there are two different trains of thought on this topic. You either believe in the Law of Attraction or you don't. And if you don't believe it, does it still work? Thoughts?

Steve

If a bear shits in the woods and you are not there to witness it...do you think it still smells? Or, attracts flies?

[danas]

Originally Posted by smartile

It seems that there are two different trains of thought on this topic. You either believe in the Law of Attraction or you don't. And if you don't believe it, does it still work? Thoughts?

Steve

Does gravity work even if you dont believe it?
Same with LOA. Whatever you focus on will eventually manifest in some way in your reality. Good or Bad
thats my experience anyway, So might as well focus on stuff that makes you feel good

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by codenamesmiley

If a bear shits in the woods and you are not there to witness it...do you think it still smells? Or, attracts flies?

My, how pithy! lol!

[Andrew Brunelle]

When you believe it doesn't work, you are using the LOA against itself, negating it. You are creating a world where it doesn't work because you believe it doesn't work. So, yes, it works, but if you believe it doesn't work, you will see no evidence of it working in your reality, and if you do, you'll discount it as something else.

[2achieveyourgoals]

Yes, the law of attraction works, whether we believe in it or not. There is no doubt about it...

[Solipsist]

As I equate the LoA with karma, I'd have to say that yes, whether your intentions are clear or not, whether you believe it or not, and whether you like it or not, what you put out will come back to you.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by smartile

It seems that there are two different trains of thought on this topic. You either believe in the Law of Attraction or you don't. And if you don't believe it, does it still work? Thoughts?

Steve

There is no "Law of" anything. But you can create one if you wish and pretend it's how things work.

Originally Posted by danas

Whatever you focus on will eventually manifest in some way in your reality.

Exactly.... what you focus on determines your experience, not the thoughts in your head. Those are two very different things.

[jacare]

No matter what you do, you are continuously creating results.

Belief systems create thoughts, and thoughts create actions, and actions create results.

Anybody can do anything, but can they consistently get themselves to follow through on actions that bring the results they want?

[Silenced140]

Yea it will be working but if you don't believe it exists then you won't notice anything.

[smartile]

Originally Posted by Angela

What a handsome fellow you are, Steve!

Yes. My experience and observation is that even if you don't believe in it or distinguish it, the tendency to get what you focus on, and what you vibrate in resonance with, still operates.

Hey Angela - thank you for your contribution and comment

Steve

[smartile]

Originally Posted by Silenced140

Yea it will be working but if you don't believe it exists then you won't notice anything.

Interesting. What do you mean by "you won't notice anything"?

Steve

[smartile]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

When you believe it doesn't work, you are using the LOA against itself, negating it. You are creating a world where it doesn't work because you believe it doesn't work. So, yes, it works, but if you believe it doesn't work, you will see no evidence of it working in your reality, and if you do, you'll discount it as something else.

Hey Andrew,

So what I think you're saying is that it works no matter if we believe in it or not AND it's to our benefit to believe in it?

Steve

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by smartile

it works no matter if we believe in it or not AND it's to our benefit to believe in it?

Yes.

It is to your benefit to believe it, because once you believe it, you are likely to start to examine your mind - your own thoughts, beliefs, attitudes etc - and to constantly reach for healthier and more positive thoughts.

If you didn't believe it, you wouldn't necessarily appreciate the value of such exercises, or appreciate them that much.

Of course, you will also stand to benefit from the LOA, if you DIDN'T believe in the LOA, but due to whatever influences were strong in your life (eg your parents, teachers, friends etc), you had absorbed various positive beliefs and held them deeply.

Eg beliefs that "Everything always work out fine in the end"; "I am a good person worthy of love", "I am talented and capable"; "Life is wonderful and enjoyable" etc etc.

Because these beliefs will constantly exert an influence on your reality, and make it so.

[smartile]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Yes.

It is to your benefit to believe it, because once you believe it, you are likely to start to examine your mind - your own thoughts, beliefs, attitudes etc - and to constantly reach for healthier and more positive thoughts.

If you didn't believe it, you wouldn't necessarily appreciate the value of such exercises, or appreciate them that much.

Of course, you will also stand to benefit from the LOA, if you DIDN'T believe in the LOA, but due to whatever influences were strong in your life (eg your parents, teachers, friends etc), you had absorbed various positive beliefs and held them deeply.

Eg beliefs that "Everything always work out fine in the end"; "I am a good person worthy of love", "I am talented and capable"; "Life is wonderful and enjoyable" etc etc.

Because these beliefs will constantly exert an influence on your reality, and make it so.

Well put Acting Like Godot.

So what you're saying is that it doesn't really matter if we believe in the Law of Attraction or not; what's more important and more helpful is that we believe in something that empowers us (ie. it always works out in the end)

...and like you said, if we don't share those/or similar types of positive beliefs it helps if we believe in something like the Law of Attraction - because it gets us to re-examine our current beliefs and constantly appreciate a more positive thought or feeling.

I like it

Steve

[sundance]

Originally Posted by Dharma

There is no "Law of" anything. But you can create one if you wish and pretend it's how things work.



Exactly.... what you focus on determines your experience, not the thoughts in your head. Those are two very different things.

This is so Zen.

But I don't understand the difference between what you focus on and the thoughts in your head? Anyone care to elaborate?

[themaster]

Originally Posted by sundance

But I don't understand the difference between what you focus on and the thoughts in your head? Anyone care to elaborate?

Okay.. "thoughts in the head" and difference between "what you focus on?

Thoughts in your head come from a lot of places.. (that seems to be the crux of your question) my understanding is they come from all over.. but let's go ahead and make a list of different you's *cough* voices that activate in your heads..

- Parents/lovers/others in physical reality.. (connections made by telepathy and chakra's)
- Plain old basic telepathy.. you can be standing next to someone or talking to them or miles away.. and pick up and receive there message.. however you may be unaware it was "telepathy" and think it was a thought
- The unconscious which is on average over 80% unaware on every human on the planet.. the unconscious can create thoughts.. and re-create beliefs through LOA
- Other you's from the multi-verse
- Part of your soul group etc.
- Inner Self
- Guides, Angels and good friends of yours in non-physical
- Beings who you make contact with or channel.. (whether you know it or not)
- And my understanding is (and I don't totally know how it all works) there is a EGO framework for our reality.. which is what all our EGO's are tapped into.. this is how you EGO knows how to operate.. and generate thoughts (more like ramblings.. )
- I'm sure there's more so.. don't consider this a "all be it" list

The fundamental description of our reality by "new age" teaching leads to many, many labels of how our bodies and minds work.. including the conscious, subconscious and unconscious

Good enough or you want more?

I think "what you focus on" speaks for itself.. it's what you focus on.. as you raise your awareness too it.. you will see more to/of it.. for it is "what you focus on" you can't help but see and attract more of it.. whether you have conscious awareness and label that a "attraction" is more about your mindset

[sundance]

Originally Posted by themaster

Okay.. "thoughts in the head" and difference between "what you focus on?

Thoughts in your head come from a lot of places.. (that seems to be the crux of your question) my understanding is they come from all over.. but let's go ahead and make a list of different you's *cough* voices that activate in your heads..

- Parents/lovers/others in physical reality.. (connections made by telepathy and chakra's)
- Plain old basic telepathy.. you can be standing next to someone or talking to them or miles away.. and pick up and receive there message.. however you may be unaware it was "telepathy" and think it was a thought
- The unconscious which is on average over 80% unaware on every human on the planet.. the unconscious can create thoughts.. and re-create beliefs through LOA
- Other you's from the multi-verse
- Part of your soul group etc.
- Inner Self
- Guides, Angels and good friends of yours in non-physical
- Beings who you make contact with or channel.. (whether you know it or not)
- And my understanding is (and I don't totally know how it all works) there is a EGO framework for our reality.. which is what all our EGO's are tapped into.. this is how you EGO knows how to operate.. and generate thoughts (more like ramblings.. )
- I'm sure there's more so.. don't consider this a "all be it" list

The fundamental description of our reality by "new age" teaching leads to many, many labels of how our bodies and minds work.. including the conscious, subconscious and unconscious

Good enough or you want more?

I think "what you focus on" speaks for itself.. it's what you focus on.. as you raise your awareness too it.. you will see more to/of it.. for it is "what you focus on" you can't help but see and attract more of it.. whether you have conscious awareness and label that a "attraction" is more about your mindset

Thank you themaster!

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by sundance

This is so Zen.

But I don't understand the difference between what you focus on and the thoughts in your head? Anyone care to elaborate?

I would offer a somewhat different slant on this question. It is one that Dharma would probably not agree with, but it is my honest perspective on the concept.

And it's this: There is no difference. The difference is semantics.

What you focus on, *ARE* your thoughts.

You see, that is what a thought is: a cognitive object that you have deliberately, or perhaps even inadvertently, placed your attention on.

We could talk all about different sorts and levels and planes of "you" but in my humble opinion, it is not helpful, as it just increases the perception of "many-ness" and apparent separation.

The bottom line is this: YOU are consciousness. What you are aware of, are your THOUGHTS.

What you focus on, you become more aware of. Not just in some mental sense, though, that is certainly true too. But when you realize that *EVERYTHING* is consciousness or thought, you start to see how what you focus on becomes closer to you in terms of consciousness. In physical space, distance is normally measured in terms of how much physically measurable space is between you and whatever you point of reference is. In consciousness, distance is measured in terms of how similar your consciousness is to your point of reference or measurement. It's less like physical distance and more like "frequency".

Consciousness that is on a similar frequency will become aware of that other consciousness, be that consciousness something that we define as "physical" or consciousness that we define as "non-physical".

And "belief" is just "thought" that has been thought so many times that it has become "grooved" into your consciousness as a habitual vibrational offering. This means you go to that thought by default whenever you broach the referenced subject that is the object of the belief. It is a focus that you have become very "used to" or familiar with.

You could even think of it as your psychological comfort zone. And because you have traveled that avenue of awareness or thought so many times, it has become very easy to travel that road. It takes effort or energy to travel other roads. This is why you can't normally immediately think yourself into the reality of being a billionaire from a state of absolute poverty. The vibrational gap is too big. You normally have to gradually shift your thoughts away from their normal pattern to a different configuration in order to affect any real change.

Hope that helps with the question, Sundance.

[Jersey]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

And "belief" is just "thought" that has been thought so many times that it has become "grooved" into your consciousness as a habitual vibrational offering. This means you go to that thought by default whenever you broach the referenced subject that is the object of the belief. It is a focus that you have become very "used to" or familiar with.

Hope that helps with the question, Sundance.

This is such a good way to phrase this...."grooved into your consciousness". Now my question is how to "ungroove"?? I have heard two schools of thought on this: (1) work your way through the thoughts, so that you really do not belief thoughts that are not for your highest good and (2) think positive thoughts when these negative grooved thoughts creep into your head...kind of just pushing them down (but not solving them).

So what are the thoughts on that? Work through them or push them down?

[themaster]

Originally Posted by Jersey

This is such a good way to phrase this...."grooved into your consciousness". Now my question is how to "ungroove"?? I have heard two schools of thought on this: (1) work your way through the thoughts, so that you really do not belief thoughts that are not for your highest good and (2) think positive thoughts when these negative grooved thoughts creep into your head...kind of just pushing them down (but not solving them).

So what are the thoughts on that? Work through them or push them down?

You are aware of what I recommend right..?? I recommending healing it away I think EGO'ing it just takes too much EFFORT

[sundance]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

I would offer a somewhat different slant on this question. It is one that Dharma would probably not agree with, but it is my honest perspective on the concept.

And it's this: There is no difference. The difference is semantics.

What you focus on, *ARE* your thoughts.

You see, that is what a thought is: a cognitive object that you have deliberately, or perhaps even inadvertently, placed your attention on.

We could talk all about different sorts and levels and planes of "you" but in my humble opinion, it is not helpful, as it just increases the perception of "many-ness" and apparent separation.

The bottom line is this: YOU are consciousness. What you are aware of, are your THOUGHTS.

What you focus on, you become more aware of. Not just in some mental sense, though, that is certainly true too. But when you realize that *EVERYTHING* is consciousness or thought, you start to see how what you focus on becomes closer to you in terms of consciousness. In physical space, distance is normally measured in terms of how much physically measurable space is between you and whatever you point of reference is. In consciousness, distance is measured in terms of how similar your consciousness is to your point of reference or measurement. It's less like physical distance and more like "frequency".

Consciousness that is on a similar frequency will become aware of that other consciousness, be that consciousness something that we define as "physical" or consciousness that we define as "non-physical".

And "belief" is just "thought" that has been thought so many times that it has become "grooved" into your consciousness as a habitual vibrational offering. This means you go to that thought by default whenever you broach the referenced subject that is the object of the belief. It is a focus that you have become very "used to" or familiar with.

You could even think of it as your psychological comfort zone. And because you have traveled that avenue of awareness or thought so many times, it has become very easy to travel that road. It takes effort or energy to travel other roads. This is why you can't normally immediately think yourself into the reality of being a billionaire from a state of absolute poverty. The vibrational gap is too big. You normally have to gradually shift your thoughts away from their normal pattern to a different configuration in order to affect any real change.

Hope that helps with the question, Sundance.

Thank you for sharing, Anagogy! That definitely helped.

Does this come from the Seth material? Any books you'd recommend on this topic?

Thanks!

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by sundance

Thank you for sharing, Anagogy! That definitely helped.

Does this come from the Seth material? Any books you'd recommend on this topic?

Thanks!

Indirectly, yes, I'm sure much of what I related is reflected in the Seth material. It is also reflected in the Abraham material, and various other new age/old age teachings.

I would definitely recommend "Ask and it is Given" by Jerry and Esther Hicks. The Seth books are also very very good. You can't go wrong with Dolores Cannon's books (in particular, the Convoluted universe series). "A Course in Miracles" is a great resource, and also the "Ra material."

There are many others, but there are some starting places.

[pyrogen]

Originally Posted by smartile

It seems that there are two different trains of thought on this topic. You either believe in the Law of Attraction or you don't. And if you don't believe it, does it still work? Thoughts?

Steve

It's going on all around you whether you believe in it or not. The matter is whether or not you're choosing to take an active role in this. But chances are, you're attracting plenty of stuff without calling it LOA or blaming any mystical/supernatural agency.

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Jersey

This is such a good way to phrase this...."grooved into your consciousness". Now my question is how to "ungroove"?? I have heard two schools of thought on this: (1) work your way through the thoughts, so that you really do not belief thoughts that are not for your highest good and (2) think positive thoughts when these negative grooved thoughts creep into your head...kind of just pushing them down (but not solving them).

So what are the thoughts on that? Work through them or push them down?

Well, from my perspective they are really the same thing. The negative beliefs, which are really just thoughts that you have thought ALOT, are just habits of vibration. They are roads you frequently go down. Thinking a different thought is like going down a different road. So by thinking positive thoughts, you are solving the problem as far as getting into a state of alignment is concerned.

The only issue with going down a different road is you don't get to use that road (thought) anymore. At least, not without throwing yourself out of alignment again.

Let me explain it in a slightly different way: there are no such thing as objectively "positive" or objectively "negative" thoughts. It is all just perception. The perceptual interpretation determines your vibrational countenance, or alignment with the Source inside you.

So another way of saying it is it is not the roads fault you aren't going down it smoothly. You are you, and the road is the road. And while its true you can always just go down a different road (one that agrees with you better) and find your alignment that way -- you might have greater freedom by adapting yourself to the road you previously had problems going down.

This would mean taking a subject you had problems with, and tweaking your thoughts about it till they felt better. It would be a form of belief bridging.

So say you were prone to stress about something in your life, like your love life for example. You thoughts on that subject are causing you to separate from the Source inside you. This is obvious from the feeling of stress that is produced when you think about this subject. Now, you could get yourself into alignment by distraction (i.e. petting your cat, watching a good movie, enjoying a sunset), but it may be more to your advantage to find out what, specifically, you are focused on about your love life which is restricting your access to inner being guidance, and then tweak your thoughts relative to the subject until you notice a visceral feeling of emotional relief.

The emotional relief would indicate that your perception (belief) was coming into alignment with your desires.

[sundance]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

Indirectly, yes, I'm sure much of what I related is reflected in the Seth material. It is also reflected in the Abraham material, and various other new age/old age teachings.

I would definitely recommend "Ask and it is Given" by Jerry and Esther Hicks. The Seth books are also very very good. You can't go wrong with Dolores Cannon's books (in particular, the Convoluted universe series). "A Course in Miracles" is a great resource, and also the "Ra material."

There are many others, but there are some starting places.

Thank you for your lovely recommendations, Anagogy! Great to discover Dolores Cannon thanks to you