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| Intention-Manifestation Manifesting intentions, law of attraction, vibrational harmony, synchronicities, luck, share your intentions, practice group manifesting |
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| | #3 (permalink) | |
| Banned |
Hahaha the poor begger obviously has no concept of the Law of Attraction or how it works, it isn't just about thinknig rich or pretending and this paragraph basically sums it all up: Quote:
and Mr. Punch, don't mock what you don't understand. | |
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| | #4 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Århus , Denmark
Posts: 35
| Corection: Haven't seen any evidence for, any scientific grounding or any logical explanation instead only hyperbole, wishful thinking and moral bankrupcy... Like calling the gentleman who wrote the article "poor beggar". Nice.
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| | #5 (permalink) |
| Senior Member |
It was a heavily jaundiced view of Oprah, maybe overly so, but I thought there were some good points in the article. I believe the LOA works, but right from the start of its marketing, I got the sense that there was something amiss about trying to leverage it for personal gain. I'm still not exactly clear about why I'm uncomfortable with it, but articles like this help me to clarify my thoughts. I took away some food for thought, thanks for posting the article here. |
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| | #6 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,800
| Heheh. You're a victim of the black swan theory. You only know what you know. You don't know what you don't know. Furthermore what you don't know, you presume to be untrue. Therefore you don't even know what you presume to be untrue.
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| | #7 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 66
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Peter Birkenhead's whole argument can be summed up by this point he makes in his article. "If you wouldn't tell another person you loved her before you got to know her, why would you do that to yourself? Skipping the getting-to-know-you part has given us what we deserve: the Oprah culture." I'm sorry, but restricting your love for people until you get to know them is exactly what is wrong with society today. Not the other way around. He gets the cause and effect wrong, on this point and every other point in the piece. And he practically admits it, when he writes, ..." 'Beauty inspires.' True enough. But hasn't the lack of beauty inspired some pretty great work? And aren't there all kinds of beauty?" Birkenhead damns Oprah for telling people to love themselves and others unconditionally first and the life you want will come. And then when she "handpicks" the girls for the school she is damned again for not having enough love to see the beauty in the other "less telegenic" girls she didn't pick. Well if you want Oprah to stop sending mixed messages to the "poor, gullible" masses, Peter Birkenhead, maybe you should do the same.
__________________ How nice it is to have 10,000 people helping me get what I want 10,000 Thoughts Inspirational Thoughts |
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| | #8 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member | Quote:
I thought it was a good point by the author, however I'm keeping an open mind and would be interested to see some rationale supporting the argument that we should love everyone by default. I suspect, however, the argument will need to get into the semantics of what we really mean by "love" someone. | |
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| | #9 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
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I think there are some valid points in his article and I was put off by a lot of "the Secret" and some of the 'teachers' like joe vitale and james ray, just seem fishy and shallow to me. on the second oprah segment when Ray and Beckwith referred to "Jesus the Christ" it seemed to me a sort of pseudo intellectual gimmick. Like children using four syllable words they don't understand. And worst of all is the craven consumerist worldview at the heart of "The Secret," because it's why the book exists: "[The Secret] is like having the Universe as your catalogue. You flip through it and say, 'I'd like to have this experience and I'd like to have that product and I'd like to have a person like that.' It is you placing your order with the Universe. It's really that easy." That's from Dr. Joe Vitale, former Amway executive and contributor to "The Secret," on Oprah.com. however his cynicism limits him; " Will the heavier girls be told, as readers of "The Secret" are, that food doesn't cause weight gain -- thinking about weight gain does? Will they be told to not even look at fat people, as "The Secret" advises? because there are studies proving that the mind does contribute to weight gain or loss. |
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| | #10 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: WA State
Posts: 446
| Quote:
I shake my head in disbelief whenever people offer up a single anecdote as proof of their ability to manifest. Someone here told a story about going to see a play. Every seat had an envelope on it one of which held the winning ticket for a charity fundraiser. The story-teller won and used this single incident as proof of their manifesting powers. My reaction was that your odds of winning in a theater with only a few hundred seats are actually pretty high. Besides, if the theater was full someone had to win. Oftentimes, Stats 101 will explain why someone experienced something that they incorrectly interpreted as manifestation. Conversely, I also think that it's just as foolish to be at the other extreme and dismiss this stuff out of hand. Based on many decades of personal experimentation, I do know that my beliefs determine my outcomes. If I believe I can do it, then I can--and vice versa. Beware of the Nordic disease of ennui. Most people from the Scandanavian countries coast through life because there's not much incentive to work hard and go for the brass ring. Here in the USA there's plenty of incentive because if you don't hustle you can sink real low real fast.
__________________ www.*********************** or How I Learned to Stop Waiting for Investors and Start Building Companies | |
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| | #11 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 59
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Even though this article may be totally biased I think its pretty fair. The Secret is essentially a huge marketing project. The Law of Attraction, as stated in the Secret, would not work for anyone. Even Steve has really modified his own definition of the law, incorporating action and polarity. The Secret does not. It essentially says, "wish and you will receive." The sad part is that people are so desperate that they need this to be true, and so they truly believe it and defend it, even though they may not be realizing any of the ridiculous claims they are making. I did not see the Oprah show, I wonder whether she endorsed it or just gave it air time. She can do whatever she wants, but I find it disingenuous and revolting for anyone, including Steve, to latch onto this marketing bonanza. |
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| | #12 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: WA State
Posts: 446
| Quote:
One thing that the guests really emphasized is the need to take action. You can't just sit on your ass and visualize things into being. Perhaps they are aware that a course correction was needed?
__________________ www.*********************** or How I Learned to Stop Waiting for Investors and Start Building Companies | |
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| | #13 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 66
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I'm not defending the incentives behind The Secret or the incentives behind Oprah doing what she has done. That is there agenda, and there is no way to know what their real motives are. Are they in it for the money first, or for helping people? Who knows. I do know that I just did an article where I rank the Best Free Sites for learning about the power of thought and the law of attraction. None of the people featured on The Secret (James Ray, Bob Proctor, Lisa Nichols...) had websites that made the list. Their websites were "More Selling than Telling". You can take from that what you want. (Steve Pavlina's site however ranked among the Best of the Best.
__________________ How nice it is to have 10,000 people helping me get what I want 10,000 Thoughts Inspirational Thoughts |
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| | #14 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: WA State
Posts: 446
| Quote:
Here's another even bigger reason why you shouldn't be so dead set against people charging for their knowledge: it's human nature not to fully appreciate the things that come free. I have learned this the hard way myself. Give someone something for free and they will respond with "Gee thanks, I'll try to find some time to read it." Then they never do or they read it but never put it into practice. Conversely, if someone pays $99 or more for a course, they will eagerly await its arrival, rip it open excitedly when the UPS man delivers it, and then study it and practice it because they have made an investment in it. I agree that there is crap being sold in the marketplace but there is some good stuff too. (I never buy anything sight unseen and have just realized that I'm a great "manifester" of free samples.)
__________________ www.*********************** or How I Learned to Stop Waiting for Investors and Start Building Companies | |
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| | #15 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: WA State
Posts: 446
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It's helpful to use an analogy like software operating systems to understand the difference between the free PD stuff and the paid versions. The free stuff is like Linux while the paid stuff is like Windows. Linux might be the way to go if you have lots of time to spare on learning how it works and tweaking to it your needs. OTOH, if you are like most people, paying $150 for an OS like XP looks like a bargain because you just want to get it up and running as quickly as possible so that you can move onto your applications. While I love Steve's writings, I find that I don't have the time to read it all. Therefore, I don't understand what Steve's "unified theory of PD" is. If he put it all on CDs, sold it for $99 to $199, I'd probably buy it because then I could listen to it in the car or on walks and "get it" within a few hours.
__________________ www.*********************** or How I Learned to Stop Waiting for Investors and Start Building Companies |
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| | #16 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Northern NY!
Posts: 151
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Here's my two cents. There are going to be people who don't understand why Oprah put The Secret on her show. I believe them to be the same as my nursing professor who recently said to me how she believed Oprah to be the first to jump "on the rascist bandwagon" (negative tone of voice is inserted here). They just don't see Oprah's intentions as good or as a higher sort of service. & those who don't understand the Secret well.. it's like perspective. You see what you focus on. I'm sure there are many who surf these forums who can explain it more concisely & elegantly than I can but basically a person cannot understand physics from an elementary math level. It's just not going to happen. You need to know your 1+1's to get to the derivative of what xsquared is. I didn't get exposed to Manifestation until I was ready for it personally speaking. Up until I did I lived my life entirely sure I was the victim of some kind of circumstance & honestly, if someone had tried to force it down my throat I would've been resistant. I've seen Oprah get huge slack for her putting her reputation on the line for The Secret but it's to be expected. Not everyone's going to understand it & that's fine but I think it's too bad people pick all kinds of points to rip people apart. ::shrug:: Good thing a lot of us don't! & btw, just to add a point. Oprah appeared on Ellen DeGeneres' coming out episode apparently (I didn't watch the show) & she got huge huge criticism for doing so in supporting the gay population. I suspect people ripping Oprah on supporting The Secret is action along the same line of thought. Close-mindedness & an unwillingness to be even remotely open or entertain another person's perspective. |
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| | #18 (permalink) | |
| Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 59
| Quote:
What I honestly don't get is not why The Secret was on Oprah, but rather why The Secret was produced to begin with. It seems like a project designed with the intention of making money and not with teaching people. Even if you believe in the Law of Attraction, chances are that you don't buy the simplistic way The Secret states it. They make it seem like magic and they make it seem easy. Too easy. I think Steve countered this sort of "wish and you will receive" mentality in his post "The #1 Mistake People Make When Using the Law of Attraction" My prediction is that thousands of people will initially embrace the mentality described in The Secret. Several weeks later, when they realize the pit in their stomach is due to none of their wishes having materialized and that they have effectively been duped, they will be angry. I see this happening with many of the "you just don't get it, it works" people on this forum. | |
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| | #19 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 305
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Why are people treating the secret so harshly? Why does it have to be 'the be all and end all of LoA' for the highbrows here to take it seriously. Why aren't you here saying how 'PHP for Dummies' is just popular marketing crap because it doesn't cover advanced multi database linking! It was designed from the ground up to be popular. Rhonda was a tv producer it's to be expected. I don't see the secret as the bible of LoA but rather as an introduction to show people what is out there, and get them looking for the rest of the information. You are expecting it to be something it isn't then tearing it down because it isn't what you expect it should be. If the secret was to accurately contain everything needed to live a fulfilling LoA life it would be several weeks long. If it was to remove all of the hype and prettiness in it it would be the most boring several weeks of LoA you ever experienced. It would have been a total flop if they had made it according to many peoples 'expectations' It would have been just another of the same programs which we already have thousands of. Most of which have never made the tiniest impact on the world. Think and Grow Rich has been out for decades, why hasn't it been on oprah? or any of the other shows? Because it's tough to read. Would you guys have only been satisfied if 'the secret' was only released in a backalley of a former USSR state to guys in trenchoats, to be distributed only to those who would truly appreciate its worth? phhhht. The Secret is easy to digest, awakens people a little and shows them what is possible. Yes, most of them will go no where with it. But they were already going nowhere so what have they lost? The price of a DVD? A free viewing on You Tube? Wooo budget shattering stuff there. But if it gives just a few more people what they need to start the journey to break out of the hell of their unconciously self imposed life then I think it's worth all the flashing lights, hype and pretty colours. If it saves even just one life from misery, then it is worth it. As for the people carrying on about scientific evidence. No one has yet been able to answer my challenge yet. I want evidence of one single person who has achieved and maintained great success over an extended period WITHOUT intending it. Show me someone who 'accidently' became and remained successful without trying, or without wanting to do what it is he became successful for. I know from my own life, I have never succeeded in anything I haven't intended to.
__________________ *NEW*Rantcrunch.com Angry? Upset? Furious? - Just get it off your chest. Mami Yamazaki - A quest to get a date with a Japanese model Website Crunch - Making Website dreams happen for those who don't know how. Secret Scrolls - LoA & Life Coaching Blog |
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| | #20 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,800
| Quote:
"Christ" isn't a family name (duh). The word "Christ" simply means messiah (as foretold by the prophets of the Hebrew Scriptures). Then this little kid came along. The name given to him was "Jesus". Turns out, according to the Bible, that he was the messiah prophesied about. So he would be referred to as "Jesus the Christ", in the same descriptive way as we might say "Alexander the Great" or "Queen Elizabeth the 2nd". Over time, "Jesus the Christ" became shortened, in popular usage, to "Jesus Christ". But it's still not very uncommon to hear references to "Jesus the Christ" or "Jesus the Messiah". | |
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| | #21 (permalink) | ||
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,800
| Quote:
Quote:
The problem with Silva's methods is that they require considerable discipline. You have to be good at passive meditation; and then you have to be good at dynamic meditation, and then you have to keep at it. That requires discipline. That's why I have semi-given up on them. And that's why, I suspect, Silva never attained the kind of commercial success that "The Secret" is achieving. The difference between Silva and "The Secret" is like the difference between going to the gym for a full, intense workout, versus staying at home and doing a couple of push-ups, sit-ups and easy stretches. Both are good for your health. One is much better for your health, but takes much more work. The easy solution is easier to sell to the masses. Last edited by Acting Like Godot; 03-06-2007 at 02:54 AM. | ||
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| | #22 (permalink) | ||
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,800
| Quote:
Although LOA had apparently led to some unusual previous events in my life, it is logically possible to dismiss these events as coincidences. Strange coincidences, but mere coincidences. That's why I decided to start on a clean slate, forget all those past events and conduct my own personal experiment from scratch. Quote: Quote:
Acting Like Godot: Quick Notes include: 1. one promotion; 2. $104,000 arriving in one lump sum; 3. Four new job opportunities spontaneously coming to me (I had not actually applied for any of them, only manifested for them to come); 4. one new job (where I will be one of the youngest persons to hold the title of Director - a senior position, even though I'm crossing over to a new career area); 5. record readership at my other blog which focuses on social issues and concerns in my country. I even received an invitation to speak at a conference with some prominent academics and politicians. 6. a couple of odd synchronicities 7. kid getting promoted ahead of her class (no intervention by me, the principal recommended it herself) after I manifested the intention to raise smart kids. 8. breathtaking investment performance 9. Moved from zero exercise to running quite seriously 10. The Education Ministry contacted me, requesting for permission to include my poem in the official national syllabus for literature. Etc etc. I have to tell you that in the days before I started consciously using LOA, such things did not automatically happen in my life. Eg I most certainly have not been getting $104,000 in lump sums; job offers do not spontaneously flock to me; I do not get invited to speak at conferences with academics and politicians; my creative works do not get included into national syllabi for literature etc etc. Anyway, my experiment goes on. I am reaching out for ever more and more outlandish and ridiculously ambitious goals, and calling on LOA for help. Some of my latest goals include: - attaining professional standards in guitar playing - publishing a book by the end of the year - winning three national literary awards in a single year - becoming the top industry expert in my country - approximately doubling my financial net worth in the coming year - running 10 km under 45 minutes Etc. There are also many other little things I've been attempting to do with LOA, that I didn't blog about. For example, I had a persistent & mysterious skin irritation on my thigh for weeks - I tried various ointments and creams and they didn't work. I did a LOA on it and it healed within 2 days. I thought to myself "Mmmm ... perhaps it's only mere coincidence." I can't dismiss that possibility. Still when the coincidences keep adding up, and adding up ..... Last edited by Acting Like Godot; 03-06-2007 at 02:56 AM. | ||
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| | #24 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 39
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If a person has a positive outlook on life and works hard at his goals then what does "the secret" have anything to do with his/her successes? I'm not trying to confront any one... I do think that the message of the secret about visualization and positive outlook is a good one. It has definitely benefited me because it helped me through a lot and I'm still reaping successes at school, work and now hopefully life.... but I want to know what the difference is between gains through law of attraction and gains through hard work? Why are people willing to give credit to a "law of attraction" for their successes that they earned through their own hard work?
__________________ AllAdvantage 2.0. <-- I'm trying this out because I remember that Alladvantage 1 used to pay out quite well. yay Last edited by garg; 03-06-2007 at 03:09 AM. |
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| | #25 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,800
| Quote:
If you analyse the steps towards the successful achievement of a goal, you may see that some steps were within your control. Other steps are (apparently) not. Then you use LOA. And suddenly the "Apparently Not" steps start happening, very, very fast. It is like my intention to find my new ideal job. Of course I would eventually have looked in the newspaper, surfed the Internet for job ads etc. However, I decided to start by manifesting. Very quickly, even before I had actually done anything else or sent out a single application, the job opportunities started popping up like crazy all around me. Where is my hard work? What hard work did I do, to make these opportunities suddenly appear? None. I merely lay down on my yoga mat and visualised. It is like how I manifested the intention to speak at an international industry conference. Note - I have never spoken at any industry conference before, zero reputation. However, on 22 November, I decided that it would be a good thing for me to do so - see point 3 in this blog post. I manifested the intention. Eight days later, 31 October, the invitation arrived out of the blue. 2nd November - everything is firmed up. 22 November - I spoke. Where is my hard work? I didn't even ask anyone to give me the speaking opportunity. I only asked the universe. I'm not dissing the importance of hard work. I believe that thoughts affect reality, and that I am part of reality. My thoughts may well affect reality and lead me to do hard work. But the effect of my thoughts go far beyond merely influencing my own personal behaviour. That's LOA for you. In recent months, my life has been full of examples, non-stop. One day, I paused to ask myself, "If LOA is for real, and it's so powerful, what should I be doing with it? I really need to figure this one out." I pondered but I wasn't sure. I decided to ask LOA to send me some inspiration to find the answers. So I manifested. Guess what happened later. On that very same day. Etc etc. I stress that the examples are numerous. I'm just highlighting some, for the purposes of discussion. | |
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| | #26 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 83
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I've been watching Oprah for, well, a long time, and I know that she's talked about this stuff over and over again. The Secret is just new packaging. Oprah has talked for years about how she keeps gratitude journals, the power of positive thinking, taking responsibility, etc... I think the article is pretty harsh. On The Secret shows, Oprah featured people who've had very practical examples of how The Secret helped improve their lives. For instance, the married couple on the verge of divorce who decided to make a concerted effort to be grateful for one another, look for the good in each other, and visualize a happy marriage. That's not hocus pocus, it's what any marriage councilor worth their salt would advise. Similarly, the young woman who was fired from her job...she was very depressed about it, then watched The Secret and realized that she should be grateful. She never liked the job anyway, and getting fired allowed her to move on to other things. None of that is "ask and you shall receive." It's more "every cloud has a silver lining." I don't see what the big deal is about. |
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| | #27 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,800
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I want to emphasise that all those things I mentioned above, happened in a very short span of time. All within the space of 4 to 5 months. Very highly compressed success. It's not as if I'm plucking positive incidents from the past 10 years of my life and spinning them into a fanciful LOA story. Over a 10-year period, everybody will have some positive stories to share. Over a 4-month period, to achieve the kind of success that I've been achieving is, I think, by most people's standards, really quite phenomenal. I urge everyone to give LOA a try. You have nothing to lose. Don't waste your time with arguments like, "...There is no scientific explanation for this. There is no logical basis for that ....". Just go ahead and try. All the equipment you need to run your own tests is right there in your own head. If you cannot bring yourself to believe, then tell yourself that for a limited time, you will just allow yourself to pretend to believe. That works too. Give yourself a month. Note that I have nothing to gain by telling you all this. I'm not Oprah. I don't have a TV show. I'm not selling PD books or CDs or DVDs. Last edited by Acting Like Godot; 03-06-2007 at 04:09 AM. |
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| | #28 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: WA State
Posts: 446
| Quote:
So what is your secret to success?
__________________ www.*********************** or How I Learned to Stop Waiting for Investors and Start Building Companies | |
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| | #29 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 39
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Thanks for the reply Acting Like Godot
__________________ AllAdvantage 2.0. <-- I'm trying this out because I remember that Alladvantage 1 used to pay out quite well. yay |
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| | #30 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: WA State
Posts: 446
| Quote:
Who's right? Who's wrong? We'll never know.
__________________ www.*********************** or How I Learned to Stop Waiting for Investors and Start Building Companies | |
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