If a child is abused, does that mean the child intended it in some way?

[ppulve]

Huh? I'll admit I'm new to I/M having just read The Law of Attraction (Hicks).
However, I seemed to gather that your thoughts cannot manifest anything but for yourself.

But when I read this:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...of-attraction/

I'm at a bit of a loss - so my daughter has Leukemia - no one would intend that for themselves or for someone else.

Help me understand the Law of Attraction in this sort of health based question.
Am I missing something.

Thanks.

[Michelle]

It is possible that your daughter wants to learn something that the illness can help teach her. So, she may have wished it for herself before she was born.

I wish you and your daughter all the best.

[Akashic_Librarian]

Its a touchy subject and there are three real possiblities in this situation:

A) The Law of Attraction is BS and in fact everything is down to random chance.

B) Your daughter's spirit intended this for her, if (God forbid I hope it doesn't happen to you) she were to pass away then it may be her spirit simply wanting a taste of what life in the physical is like. If she lives then she will have experienced something she needed to.

C) Subjective Reality: Basically, your daughter doesn't have intentions and YOU gave her this illness through fear or some other belief. Perhaps you hold a belief that children sometimes do get sick, and it COULD happen to your daughter, so it did?

You have to analyize your own beliefs and feelings and decide for yourself.

My Love is with your Daughter and your family and You.

[Lil Chris]

ppulve,
Have you read the science of getting rich...? I reccommend the whole thing but there may be information in chapter 4 that will interest you...

The Science of Getting Rich - Wikisource

Here is a small excerpt...

There is no labor from which most people shrink as they do from that of sustained and consecutive thought; it is the hardest work in the world. This is especially true when truth is contrary to appearances. Every appearance in the visible world tends to produce a corresponding form in the mind which observes it; and this can only be prevented by holding the thought of the TRUTH.
To look upon the appearance of disease will produce the form of disease in your own mind, and ultimately in your body, unless you hold the thought of the truth, which is that there is no disease; it is only an appearance, and the reality is health.
To look upon the appearances of poverty will produce corresponding forms in your own mind, unless you hold to the truth that there is no poverty; there is only abundance.
To think health when surrounded by the appearances of disease, or to think riches when in the midst of appearances of poverty, requires power; but he who acquires this power becomes a MASTER MIND. He can conquer fate; he can have what he wants.
END EXCERPT

So, reguardless of what you currently see (in your daughter)... Your daughter is healthy, you and your daughter should dwell upon that and only that, your daughter is healthy...

[Logicseeker]

Yours and your daughter's consciousness is the same.
Therefore, according to the LoA it is yours AND your daughter's fault that she is sick. Even if she was raped it would still collectively be yours and your daughter's (and everyone else's) fault. This is all pretty clear if you read the article carefully.

Enjoy!

[Lychee]

LoA isn't the only law working in the universe...there is a greater power which is orchestrating the events that occur in our lives.

[Narz]

Originally Posted by Logicseeker

Yours and your daughter's consciousness is the same.
Therefore, according to the LoA it is yours AND your daughter's fault that she is sick. Even if she was raped it would still collectively be yours and your daughter's (and everyone else's) fault. This is all pretty clear if you read the article carefully.

Enjoy!

So we all should be put in jail for rape then?

Why jail rapists at all, just let 'em run free, after all if a woman is abused it's her own fault, right? What's with all this blame stuff, lets all just go camping together and if some little kids get groped and others get stories told to them, well then obviously that's what was meant to me.

[ethereal]

The problem with all theories and laws and constructs is that they can never fully describe reality. By its nature, they can only be mental patterns superimposed upon reality and taken to be it. There was this one quote that said, "All the human brains in the galaxy cannot fully describe the reality of a single fly." LOA is an example of this -- it's a useful model at times, but we must remember that "the map is not the territory."

Our world as we know it is only the physical manifestation of a greater spiritual dimension. You can compare it to being only able to see the visible spectrum of light, when there are radio and x-ray and infrared and ultraviolet frequencies existing and at work that we cannot see. Thus, in religious/spiritual teachings we are told to surrender everything to God. We know that we do not know, and that there must be a reason for everything, and so we trust and have faith in that greater principle.

I highly recommend looking into Dr. Hawkins' work as he has finally found an objective way to confirm spiritual truths. Some of them are that karma as a principle does exist and that people are born under the best possible karmic circumstances to undo negative karma or earn positive karma. In that case, it becomes easier to accept the suffering of others as their way of repaying negative debt and giving up the lesser for the greater. We wouldn't want to prevent them from doing so, right?

What I've described are karmically destined illnesses (which leukemia seems like). For ones that were caused by negative belief systems (what LOA/I-M describes), they can be healed when those negative belief systems are corrected and transcended.

[Logicseeker]

Originally Posted by Narz

So we all should be put in jail for rape then?

Why jail rapists at all, just let 'em run free, after all if a woman is abused it's her own fault, right? What's with all this blame stuff, lets all just go camping together and if some little kids get groped and others get stories told to them, well then obviously that's what was meant to me.

Hello, Narz. I myself think that the LoA is just empty words. I don't believe in it.
I was just helping with Pavlina's article and what he implicitly was writing. I don't really have much to with it on a personal level.

[Narz]

Originally Posted by Logicseeker

Hello, Narz. I myself think that the LoA is just empty words. I don't believe in it.
I was just helping with Pavlina's article and what he implicitly was writing. I don't really have much to with it on a personal level.

You have everything to do with it. You have everything to do with everything. You killed Jesus! And Kenny! You bastard!

[TheFlyingMan]

This is my take on the LoA and young children - I don't think any of them intend to be abused, but it's what they focus on predominantly.

Say a 10 year old kid - at the age of 4, something happened to make her afraid of disease (maybe she heard a story from a friend, maybe she saw a movie, maybe the neighbour died of something), and it's her dominant thought for a long time and it hits her after a few years.

Or maybe its a seed that they planted a long time ago and since they've never counter-acted the bad seed with some good thoughts, it manifested. Just a single thought, perhaps, can manifest something unless it's counteracted by a good thought.

I used to wonder where AIDS came from - if the people who first got AIDS never heard of AIDS, how did they manifest it? Most likely they weren't thinking of AIDS, but they were thinking of death or disease, and AIDS was what they got.

It's similar to the way good things manifest. Like how a lot of teachers say don't specify HOW you want your gifts to manifest, the universe will take care of the HOW. They say it's better to intend a million dollars, then to intend a million dollars via one specific source. So, even though they don't intend disease or abuse, they might be focused on unhappiness, and thats what the universe gave them.

[mtrimpe]

I can only speak for myself. I have always been a physically troubled child.

At the age of 5 I contracted Perthes disease, which is when a vein in the hip dies off and isn't properly replaced, so the hip-joint begins to die off as well.
At the age of 7 I developed very severe Asthma.
At the age of 15 I got hit by a car going at 35mph while biking from school to home.

In retrospect I believe I intended all these things to happen. Each one of these events made me so much stronger. I beat all of them in a nearly miraculous fashion.

The Perthes disease leaves almost all of its sufferers unable to walk properly. If you have ever seen someone walking across the street with a really bad 'wobble ' in their walk, the chances are they had Perthes disease. Miraculously though I am now not able to just walk properly, I can even run and the only remnant is slightly reduced mobility in my right hip.

The Asthma left me incapacitated for several years, hardly being able to sleep. At some point when the doctor prescribed me my 6th medicine to take daily I told my mom I wanted to quit taking the medicine. She allowed me to stop and a few weeks later I was cured of the Asthma almost completely. I now even smoke

The car accident is the first one where I can truly see where my intending it came into place. I realize now that I put myself through all these ordeals to challenge myself. I always felt like life was too easy for me, that there weren't enough challenges, that the pace the world had set for me was simply too slow. Before I was hit by that car I was trying to do two years of high-school in one, but it was made almost impossible by the school. I was constantly looking for a challenge in my life, something that would truly be tough to deal with.

And then one day I got hit by that car, had my body almost destroyed, damaged my brain making me lose my ability to organize my thoughts and from one day to the next I had an incredibly tough challenge to face. Not only did I have to repair my body, I had to catch up on half a year of school-work, while at the same time the accident caused me brain-damage which made it very hard for me to organize my thoughts (I had been the 'super-intelligent' type kid before that).

So yes, I intended that car accident. I was looking for a challenge. I'm learning now to create somewhat more constructive challenges for myself instead of destructive ones, but I did get what I wanted.

[mtrimpe]

Originally Posted by Narz

Why jail rapists at all, just let 'em run free, after all if a woman is abused it's her own fault, right? What's with all this blame stuff, lets all just go camping together and if some little kids get groped and others get stories told to them, well then obviously that's what was meant to me.

If you have a tendency to harm yourself (say smoking) do you let it persist or are you going to do something about it? Do you blame it on 'a part of your brain'? Do you imprison that part of your brain? Or do you take control as a whole person and fix it?

[themaster]

Based on the theories you can have smoking not harm you at all or be negative..

It's also intresting to note that a French woman who was a life smoker made it to the age of what 107 or so? I think she might have made guiness but not sure..

The intresting thing about LOA and child molestation is it's not wrong.. I always look at it like this.. in this fair and just system.. is Hitler hanging out in hell?(christian adoption.. since my family claims to be 'christians') And the answer is no.. It would not be fair for Hitler to be revenged upon.. Meaning in a fair and just system there is no revenge or anger or hurting.. infact all that stuff as we know just gets more.. and becomes a endless cycle unless stopped.

[Narz]

Originally Posted by mtrimpe

If you have a tendency to harm yourself (say smoking) do you let it persist or are you going to do something about it? Do you blame it on 'a part of your brain'? Do you imprison that part of your brain? Or do you take control as a whole person and fix it?

The take control part, that's what I try to do anyway.

How does that relate to this conversation though?

[mtrimpe]

Originally Posted by Narz

How does that relate to this conversation though?

If you accept that we are all one consciousness, then there is essentially no difference between 'the part of you that smokes' and 'a person who rapes'. It's simply a part of the collective consciousness that is behaving in a destructive way.

As to IM and LoA in children, I believe that until the child learns to take control over it's own mind he or she usually is a vessel for the intentions of those who provide it with mental nourishment, whether it be the parents, the television or the school. So until a child learns to take control over it's intentions, it's intentions are simply the result of the dominant thoughts of its caretakers.

[Narz]

Originally Posted by mtrimpe

If you accept that we are all one consciousness,

I don't. It's pretty obvious to me we all all separate consciousnesses. At least this time around anyway (we may all be connected but obviously we don't all think and feel the same things).

Originally Posted by mtrimpe

then there is essentially no difference between 'the part of you that smokes' and 'a person who rapes'. It's simply a part of the collective consciousness that is behaving in a destructive way.

You've lost me there.

Originally Posted by mtrimpe

As to IM and LoA in children, I believe that until the child learns to take control over it's own mind he or she usually is a vessel for the intentions of those who provide it with mental nourishment, whether it be the parents, the television or the school. So until a child learns to take control over it's intentions, it's intentions are simply the result of the dominant thoughts of its caretakers.

So you believe in the child as blank slate theory. I disagree.

[Andrew Brunelle]

I believe suffering is inevitable in life, unless you find a way to transcend it, which is something we all work towards. It is how we deal with this suffering that shapes us as a person. I suffered with a brain tumor in my adolesence and I am more thankful for that experience than anything else. I needed that to happen to me. It is something you only understand if you have had a similar experience, but suffering is a part of life, and looking at it from the right perspective will allow you to see this.

[Dani]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

I believe suffering is inevitable in life, unless you find a way to transcend it, which is something we all work towards. It is how we deal with this suffering that shapes us as a person.

And that is the perfect way to ensure that you have suffering in your life! By intending that suffering is inevitable.

The problem with the 'did the children intend it?' argument is that we have no way of knowing what is before life on earth.

Different theories/channelled works/religions present many different views of life before life (as opposed to after death) or ignore it altogether.

LoA is not a religion as such, but merely a way of describing a universal law.

A child's predicament could be caused by a few different factors.

1. There is infact a life before life, and the child accepted the early death/illness before coming into the world
2. The child's condition is a direct result of the parent's intentions.
3. The childs conditions is a result of the parent's intentions affecting/guiding the child's intentions

1. Can't be proven or disproven, and it isn't really practical to wonder about it.
2. Would mean that the parent's or even the environment were the ones that inadvertently brought this upon the child. Beliefs such as 'children are nothing but trouble', 'My family has a history of x disease' , 'I feel like I am useless, I wish I had some way to feel important and needed' , 'There are a lot of chemicals in the world and environment and these are bad for our health' , 'Life is so unfair'. I could list thousands of beliefs and intentions that could bring about this situation without specifically asking for leukemia, or to be abused.

I think a more important question you should be asking though, is not 'why did this happen?' but 'how can we solve it?'.

The longer you worry about your child's condition, the worse you will make it. Either directly by your intentions affecting her, or indirectly by your attitude towards her convincing her she is weak helpless and dying. Then her own beliefs from that doing the rest.

The more you intend and focus upon them being a healthy child however, and help them feel like a healthy child, the more chance they have of recovery.

When I was young I was a very sick child. My mother told me this a lot. I was often going to the doctors at least once a month, and for a couple of years at least once a week.

Once I left home, and stopped telling myself I was sick, and was not being told I was sick all the time. I almost miraculously became healthy. I haven't been to the doctor in at least 10 years, except for checkups when going overseas or for jobs.

I am not sure if you do this already or not, but when you see your daughter, be happy, talk to her about how much fun she is going to have when she is better, try to get as much detail in it as possible.

Ask her to imagine what she will do and to describe it to you, then keep asking her more questions to make her fill in the details. e.g. who else is there, what are you wearing, what time of day, what will you eat etc.

Do your best not to talk about her being sick, try not to say things like 'you can't do that dear you are a sick girl' try to find ways to do what she wants to do without putting too much stress on her instead of trying to protect her.

[ppulve]

Thanks to all for your words and help in understanding.

I do have to apologize (and it's so clear to see my errors in thinking) to all for stating my original question the way I did.

My daughter finished her treatments for Leukemia in January so she currently does not have the disease and is in full remission.

You know since I've been reading about LoA and searching websites, I've questioned my own thoughts so much - I guess that's a good thing but for so long I've been negative - and it takes practice to remind myself to stay concious of my thoughts.

But when you're a "newbie" and you struggle with change you tend to doubt what you believe - and ask yourself is "this right" or is "that right" or is this really being positive. It's all so confusing.

So many of you seem to be vets at this and that's great and I appreciate your words of wisdom but it's still confusing because everyone has different opinions and/or beliefs. I'm in the process of finding what works for me.

Anyway, again my original post was posted out of frustration and not understanding what seemed to be a contradiction in what I've read and initially that was "you can't effect someone elses experience by your thoughts" which was contrary to what I read on this website and contrary to what many of you are saying.

How could one not have an inherent sense of guilt if they in fact thought negatively (without understanding) and gave their daughter a disease. I know that's just one belief and many of you say she might have chosen it herself.

I just am searching for the way to have her stay healthy without constantly questioning whether I'm thinking the right way.

Thanks again to all and I shall continue to watch these threads for your understanding and wisdom.

[Dani]

Why feel guilty?

You were doing the best you could with what you knew. There is nothing to feel guilty about. To feel guilty will just soil the future with the taint from the past.

I am glad she is in remission btw.

If you want to improve your chances for the future, be grateful for the present. It is the single best way to manifest a nicer life.

Stop feeling guilty about the past and worrying about the future and be grateful she is in remission, getting healthy and still with you.

It sometimes helps to write a list of all the good things to remind you what you have to be grateful for.

Write it out, laminate it, and put it on the wall somewhere you will see it every day. Do that for a few weeks and I guarantee things will look better for you.

[renie408]

I will help you with positive energy for your daughter's continued good health. Please know that you have all my good wishes, positive intentions and heartfelt support. I am so glad to hear that she is in remission. Work on your positive energy and enjoy your life. Do not waste one minute in regret or guilt. You are a good parent who loves their child. It is understandable to feel responsible. And being positive really IS hard! I never really thought of myself as a negative person until I started trying to focus on being positive. You really start to realize how many negative thoughts go through your brain in a day.

Anyway, congratulations on your daughter's remission and keep your chin up.

[themaster]

There are only 2 known quantifiers that I know off for allowed abuse.. both come from Abraham-hicks which is what I'm studying at the moment

1. If a person is living in default (means just letting come what is)

2. Effected by a vibration, namely the parents..

(unfortunately couldn't find you a quote as a source.. )