LoA and subjective reality are mutually exclusive

[Narz]

Just a friendly PSA.

If LoA is a concrete objective universal law that operates whether you believe in it, know about it, or not than the idea of subjective reality is horse manure.

Personally I don't believe in either (LoA being a "law" or subjective reality).

Just pointing out you have to choose one or another (or further distance yourself from logic and rationality).

Cheers,
Narz

[jacmac1]

Just pointing out you have to choose one or another (or further distance yourself from logic and rationality).

This made me smile. I've always admired wit!

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Narz

If LoA is a concrete objective universal law that operates whether you believe in it, know about it, or not than the idea of subjective reality is horse manure.

I like to think otherwise. LoA operates in the subjective reality framework. Your vibe is connected to all there is and shows up through your senses.

There's a duality of consciousness being all one and each individual having a seperate ego/objective experience.

I like the analogy that we egos are like particles and the universe is one big wave connecting everything. And both the particle and wave nature exist, in some similar fashion to how light behaves and is observed.

[Steve Pavlina]

The LoA is a rather natural extension of subjective reality; they essentially go hand in hand. I remember writing about that in an article last year.

[Narz]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

The LoA is a rather natural extension of subjective reality; they essentially go hand in hand. I remember writing about that in an article last year.

Doesn't make sense. A "subjective reality" can have no laws (any kind of universal law that the subjects of have no say in is by definition not subjective).

But if you find your article let me know and I'll check it out.

[absvan]

I know that Steve talks about this in the podcast "the true nature of reality". When you understand what he speaks, probably you will have a better understanding.

[Narz]

Originally Posted by absvan

I know that Steve talks about this in the podcast "the true nature of reality". When you understand what he speaks, probably you will have a better understanding.

A better understanding of what he thinks I suppose.

I'll check it out.

Though I admit, I think it's a bit amusing and presumptuous to claim to fully understand "the true nature of reality" (I certainly don't, I don't even know how a semiconductor works).

[Narz]

Steve says absurd funny.

I'm 15 minutes thru so far. His theory at this point is that life is a big simulation, kind of like a Holodeck in Star Trek. hmmm

He's worrying too much about the question of why... why is he tied to think particular body... who cares? It is.

His voice is a bit high pitched for my taste, I don't know if I can listen to all 67 minutes of this.

He seems to have an issue with random. Ok, now he's saying because he finds something strange (the idea of a random universe) it probably is wrong. That's not a very logic step. It is the exact same view a bigot might take of homosexuality - "I find it strange, therefore it is wrong" (as for me personally, I find the idea of anal-intercourse between two men disgusting but by no means to I think it's wrong). Ok, back to listening now.

"Giant collection of unprovable assumptions", sounds good.

At 26:39 now. He talks about life is a big simulation & there is only one consciousness (his, I guess) and that his body is just a tool he uses to navigate thru reality (like a character in a video game he explains it). He goes on to say that his body and mind are the only thing he can directly control but he can indirect control the outside thru LoA (unprovable).

"Physical reality is the sum total of every intention" (unprovable but ok, he's entitled to his beliefs). "There is no perception without creation" (what about people in vegetative states who cannot interface with the world but still can think?).

Now he's say LoA doesn't work right away because we're paying attention to the now, if we stopped paying attention to the physical world we could change things more rapidly I guess. This is similar to the belief many children have that "If I close my eyes, you can't see me!".

"There's only one consciousness here & it's mine (or yours)". (31:10) I think Steve's gone off the deep end.

No one thinks but you. Hmm.

Continuing to listen, at 45:23 now. According to Steve, it's all about beliefs and everyone is God and we create even the laws of physics, etc.

46:00, this is getting interesting now. He's saying even if he's wrong and completely deluded, that having his beliefs are superior to having any other beliefs even if others are more accurate.

That is the crux of it and my main issue with this whole thing. It is basically saying, "Why bother to learn when it's all make believe and we can bend the laws of psychics, gravity, etc. if we really want to (I guess no one's wanted it bad enough). Sounds harmless enough, well maybe, until you think about a Heaven's Gate type situation or someone who decides to believe feeding nothing but cardboard to their son or daughter is healthy. Then physical reality steps in, proves them wrong and their dependents (or those gullible enough to listen) suffer for it (which I suppose doesn't bother the consciousness of the one who misled or malnourished them simply because they don't believe in any consciousness but their own so their own kid, a stapler, same difference.

Ok, pressing play again...

At 48:00 he says "most importantly, more accurate" in regards to his beliefs, this contradicts what he says earlier. "As my consciousness becomes more positive, I attract more positive people into my life..." hmm, maybe the realist types get bored and move on. Anyway, how does that statement account for me?

"Motivated to act because I enjoy the unfolding process". Me too, but I don't need LoA for that. I can enjoy the universe without pretending I control the weather.

"Creative observation", I like that part.

I agree with the bloggers Steve talks about who agree with some of what he says and think he's totally deluded in other parts. After all, I'm here, right?

All in all Steve is interesting. You got to hand it to him. Here I am at two in the morning posting on his forum, getting his name in the search engines. I should go to sleep so I suppose but I don't feel much like doing it (despite how tired I am).

Anyway, that was fun, not at all wasted (I played Settlers of Catan and posted in a couple other threads while listening). Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.

[Narz]

So, no one wants to address this issue?

In a subjective universe there can be no laws. You could have the "fun idea of attraction" but not the 'law of attraction" in a subjective universe.

The word law (or right or wrong or logic) have no place in a subjective reality.

[Narz]

I guess no one wants to address this. Oh well.

[judge45]

I've come to realise that while SR/OR are all very interesting, Steve is out on a self opinionated limb with his version of SR and that's fine, it's an interesting read, but it's just opinion.

True SR means you are God and can do anything, but you first have to accept what you've done before you can fly or manifest money instantly.

There is a part of me that thinks SR could be the real deal, but I don't think I want to ge there. Being God-like would make it real dull real fast. Where is the enjoyment of instantly manifesting everything.

After listening to the podcast several times the thing that I did find the most interesting is CO (creative observation) or COM (creative observation of the moment)

Past and future don't exist, so it's pointless referencing them, all we have is the present moment. So if you don't like the present moment you have to change it using COM. That is a fancy way of saying you must accept what is, be even grateful for it and use that moment to change the moment.

Accept you've got $100 in the bank, but creatively see $1M.

Steve also says that a massive shift in observation will induce a massive shift in reality, which it does. If you want to move to a new place, you first must observe yourself doing it. You just don't wake up there.

Another thing I like about the podcast is the analogy of coding. Consciousness (you) are the programmer and reality is the program, thoughts are the instructions, but every thought is an instruction.

That's why some of the program is crap, because you are writing some crap code as well as some good stuff.

So by accepting the reality (program) as it is and using COM (creative observation of the moment)in a consistant and massive way, (writing new code/instructions/thoughts) you should see a massive shift in the reality (new program)

For me SR/OR become meaningless after awhile, but the truth (for me) that present moment awareness and what I can do with that is where the power lies, that's inspiring.

Kooky

Jeff

[tomn8er]

There is a part of me that thinks SR could be the real deal, but I don't think I want to ge there. Being God-like would make it real dull real fast. Where is the enjoyment of instantly manifesting everything.

Honestly, are you really worried about achieving godhood in your life-time? Relax, it's not gonna happen.

that present moment awareness and what I can do with that is where the power lies, that's inspiring.

totally agree with you on this one. I also don't see things eye to eye with Steve on his version of subjective reality, but I have to admit it does sound incredibly empowering.

Right now I'm sort of sitting on the fence between objectivity and subjectivity.
I do believe that we are all interconnected (perhaps infinitely, who can say?) and can therefore achieve some pretty miraculous feats (just read Michael Talbot's "The Holographic Universe" for some mind-blowing examples).
But I don't agree, or don't want to agree, with Steve's idea that life is like a simulation. This description makes it sound too trivial or devoid of meaning.

My stance at the moment is that, following that subjective reality is essentially true, other people are merely different aspects of one universal consciousness, just as you are. Like cells in a body, we are all separate yet inherently connected in a way.

Can't say for sure, but I think that this is more or less the idea that Steve was getting at in his podcasts. It would also help explain why we aren't godlike and can't manifest our intentions instantly. When I first listened to them, most of what he said blew right over my head. I couldn't figure out how we could be the only conscious person, and everyone else is just a projection of our own consciousness. But when I looked at it from the viewpoint of there being a universal consciousness, one which I personally am only tapped into a limited portion of, as is everyone else, it made a whole lot more sense to me logically. Well anyway, that's my two cents worth on that.