PATHS - Unbelievable Results

[Angela]

uh-oh, the BS Police is back on the beat! I'd like to point out that the strident detractors are people who haven't tried PATHS. I would give more weight to the opinion of folks I respect who have actually used the product than to the "I'm Right! (but ignorant) Patrol"

[dor]

How much is 'Paths" ...34.95 a month....tell you what, I have a similar system, i will provide you with modules for 29.95 a month. Its scientifically formulated and i have a stack of studies backing it up


Subliminal Self-Help Tapes:
An Example of Self-Help Snake Oil

Subliminal Self-Help Tapes & The Illusory Placebo Effect

In fact, only one reliable effect of subliminal tapes has ever been demonstrated, and it is not the effect that marketers of these tapes promise. It is an effect that author and psychologist Anthony Pratkanis, an expert on subliminal phenomena, has called the illusory placebo effect.

To understand this effect, let’s consider one of the studies conducted by Pratkanis and his colleagues. They recruited people interested in subliminal techniques, and before the study began, each participant was given several tests of self-esteem and memory. Participants were then given subliminal tapes designed to improve either self-esteem or memory, but with a twist. Half of the participants received tapes that were correctly labeled, but the other half were given mislabeled tapes – some received self-esteem enhancers that were labeled as memory improvers, while others received memory improvement tapes that were labeled as self-esteem enhancers. Everyone was given instructions on how to use the tapes, and each participant was called weekly with encouragement to continue listening to the tapes. Five weeks later, the self-esteem and memory of all participants were measured again.

Consistent with other studies, these tapes did not deliver the benefits their manufacturers had promised, as there was no significant improvement in self-esteem or memory. Although the tapes themselves had no effect, the labels did. Those who listened to tapes labeled as self-esteem enhancers believed their self-esteem had improved (in fact, self-esteem remained stable); similarly, those who listened to tapes labeled as memory enhancers believed their memory had improved (in fact, their memories had not improved). This is the illusory placebo effect. Like a placebo, the tapes had an effect only because the users expected them to have an effect, but the effect was illusory, not real. Just as 19th century snake oils containing laudanum made people feel better without providing the promised medical benefits, so do today’s subliminal self-help and self-improvement tapes.

Despite numerous studies demonstrating that subliminal tapes are worthless, people continue buying them in large numbers. The problem is that manufacturers of these products have become experts at deceptive marketing, and they conveniently ignore the carefully-conducted studies demonstrating the ineffectiveness of the tapes. As Anthony Pratkanis put it,

“Tape company representatives are likely to provide you with a rather lengthy list of ‘studies’ demonstrating their claims. Don’t be fooled. The studies on these lists fall into two camps – those done by the tape companies and for which full writeups are often not available, and those that have titles that sound as if they apply to subliminal influence, but really don’t.”
Subliminal Tapes: Self-Help Snake Oil (A Scientific Perspective)

froms "paths's website:
Rapid Data Transfer Protocol
(R.D.T.)

A tremendous breakthrough in the area of subconscious life enhancement, R.D.T. or Rapid Data Transfer allows high speed communication with the human subconscious.

Specialists who attempt to develop self-help systems, and behavioral enhancement solutions have long underestimated the hyper retention and sorting capabilities of the subconscious mind. While the effectiveness of subliminal suggestion is well documented, R.D.T capable technologies are light years ahead, actually having the ability to enhance a person by delivering millions of instructions to their subconscious in short periods of time. The result is a safe and selectable system that features enhancements controlled by the end user on both a conscious and subconscious level.



like i said, junk science. I am just amazed that people part with their money so easily.

[Angela]

And be sure to tune in again for the next exciting article from the I'm So Right (and Ignorant) Patrol! coming soon!

[searstower]

Originally Posted by dor

I am just amazed that people part with their money so easily.

I'm amazed that some people are so tight with their money.

[KevinESM]

Angela and searstower,

The challenge with such a long thread is that it takes quite a bit of time to read through it all and absorb all the information.

I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt to Byron, Dan and Dor. Their comments make perfect sense given their paradigms.

They have probably not read the entire thread and do not realize that their comments are addressing the color of the grass when what is actually being discussed is the color of leaves on a particular tree.

That is ok.

It does not hurt anyone.

Everyone goes about their research and assimilation of new paradigms in a different manner, with different reactions as old paradigms are challenged.

Have Fun, Be Happy!



Kevin

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

Would you tell me, either in number or in the form of a percentage,

1. how many of your customers have permanently stopped using your product?

2. how many of your customers have not stopped using it/continue to use it (possibly with intervals)?

Hi Lucia,

It is impossible for us to know who permanently stopped or not because some are signing back up with the new pricing.

However, around 25% of the customers on the old pricing did not renew ongoing and virtually every single one had an issue paying $200/month and that is why they quit..some quit after 1 month some quit after 4,5,6 or more months..out of a few thousand customers, we only had about 10 refund requests so I think that speaks highly of PATHS. Out of the ones who did not renew ongoing on the old prices.

After dropping the renewal to $34.95/month, last I checked in my back office over 50% who expired are now renewing so that makes it around 85% retention rate so far and that number is slowly climbing.

[dor]

Is there any peer reviewed research to back this up? In fact, is there anything to back up the claims made here?

Rather than ''testimonials' how about posting some peer reviewed research? If you're so confident in the product, how about offering 5 30 day trials to five uses on this forum whom are respected and trusted and they could post their results. If they were sucessful it would mean 10X the number of subscribers and they would probably keep subscribing so its win win.

That would solve this matter once and for all.

[Angela]

OR .... you might notice that there are several existing posters here who have purchased the product and are posting their results in this and another dedicated thread, some of whom have signed up because they were inspired by results posted in this very thread! Others who have decided not to bother.

And one or two who have posted insulting, self-righteous pedantic diatribes, without ever having tried the product!

PATHS never advertised here. It was brought up as an option by a respected and trusted subscriber to this forum.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by dor

Is there any peer reviewed research to back this up? In fact, is there anything to back up the claims made here?

Rather than ''testimonials' how about posting some peer reviewed research? If you're so confident in the product, how about offering 5 30 day trials to five uses on this forum whom are respected and trusted and they could post their results. If they were sucessful it would mean 10X the number of subscribers and they would probably keep subscribing so its win win.

That would solve this matter once and for all.

Or you can just buy it, test it, and get a refund if it doesn't work for you.

That's what I'm doing.

[mkidd]

Aaron,

To build on what Bitsy asked, I would like to know if after using the product for a length of time are the messages fairly "permanent" for lack of a better way of putting it? Is it different depending on the module?

For example, for something physiological like a depression or insulin module, does it train your body to continue to produce serotonin or insulin on an ongoing basis even after stopping as long as you stay on for a long enough initial "training" period?

Or if you are doing one which is encouraging self confidence and healthier eating choices, have people found that these good habits continue after stopping?

Thank, mk

[kevs]

Paul, I saw on the other thread that you purchased 2 modules. I know that the guarantee only covers 1 module. Will they still refund you for the one module even if you purchased two? I am on four modules, but I didn't realize the guarantee was only for one module until after I made my purchase. I hope that if I don't see any results after 30 days, I will at least be refunded for the one module. I emailed them saying I hadn't seen any results after a week; they wrote me back saying it's different for everyone, but there was no mention of adjusting my modules.

To be honest, I'm a little disappointed so far. I read somewhere, I think in this thread, that watching PATHS for 3 minutes is like doing affirmations 24/7 for a month, and that the brain is receiving "millions" of instructions. If it were so powerful, and I've watched everyday for 8 days, it seems I would have felt some changes by now. I am going to remain patient and hopeful for right now, but I am going to email the company now for clarification on the guarantee.

mkidd, if you go the website product page, just click on "full description" of whatever module you want to learn about. At the bottom of the description, there should be a "Recommended Duration of Use", and it will tell you how long each of the modules are designed to be used. Some would have to constantly be used, such as Defying Gravity, but others, such as Effective Goal Setting and Achievement, can be discontinued after 60-90 days. At least that's how I read it.

[Grace.Haeusler]

Hi Dan.Linehan

"If PATHS is a valid product, which is highly questionable, considering the "cheers" and "peanut gallery style" followings of an obviously negative and highly sarcastic post like artichokes, but, if it is a valid product, and if the goal of the business were to benefit as many people as possible as KevinESM suggests, I would think that the product would either be free, or it would be very cheap."


Would you please contact Gucci, Donna Karan, Karl Lagerfeld, Calvin Klein, Hugo Boss, etc and ask them to give their products away for free, or at least for a cheap price. I know many people would really appreciate getting these products for free, and I am sure these companies would still continue to produce High quality products with Little or no profit If they did so!

I personally don't feel the Paths monthly price of $34.95 is expensive, and the initial set up fee is a one time fee. I am used to paying top dollar for excellent workmanship and great service!!

I have gotten so much more out of the 13 modules I am now on (one being a custom Platinum module which is $195.00 per month) than what I am currently paying. After my first 4 modules I knew I was getting more in use value than I was giving in cash value!! My life is Absolutely Fabulous. where as before Paths it was just Good.

Nothing is free in this world, you get what you pay for!

"Give every individual more in use value than you take from them in cash value-then you are adding to the life of the world by every business transaction." Wallace D. Wattles The Science of Getting Rich. pg 61

I read this book in 2002, Rhonda Byrne read it and created the movie "The Secret"

[KevinESM]

Hi All!

I just added this quote to my profile at another site. Thought I would post it here as it seems particularly relevant.

“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”

- Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 - 1860)

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Grace.Haeusler

Hi Dan.Linehan
Would you please contact Gucci, Donna Karan, Karl Lagerfeld, Calvin Klein, Hugo Boss, etc and ask them to give their products away for free, or at least for a cheap price.

Grace, I think your post puts things in a good perspective. I'm not sure anyone would claim that the name brand apparel you mention is for the greatest good of all.

Thanks for clearing that up.


@ Angela
My offer is only intended to provide a more efficient distribution means, nothing more. Multi-level Marketing is generally considered a poor way to do business, as it tends to artificially inflate the price of its products.

[Byron]

Originally Posted by KevinESM

I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt to Byron, Dan and Dor. Their comments make perfect sense given their paradigms.

They have probably not read the entire thread and do not realize that their comments are addressing the color of the grass when what is actually being discussed is the color of leaves on a particular tree.

Pardon me? I think you misunderstand. I am a paying subscriber to this product, and have a question about the efficacy of the way these messages are relayed in the program.

Whether you are a Paths promoter or not, to write off public questions from customers as criticism, without even addressing the issue, is quite discourteous.

I am willing to suspend jugement on this product based on the marketing scheme, purchasing setup, and even the motives of the unnamed creators, while narrowly focusing on the product itself for a period. If you have a valid product here, such questions should not be so difficult to answer.

[V'ger]

I too would like to know more of the science behind the product; that's just the way I am. Hey, the only fiction in my bookcase you'll find is:

1. A couple of Internet marketing plans.
2. A couple of Real Estate marketing plans.
3. The Hayes BMW 525i repair manual.
4. I can't say because I'm still afraid I'll be struck by a bolt of lightning. Sorry Jamie, that's just the way it is.

I've got to say that various aspects of the sales info seemed like nonsense to me. I'm not at all sure that I get behind Aaron's diagram, Joe Cells, Orgone Generators or CyberShaman. Yes, I'm putting them all in the same basket (in my mind), but I'm still processing the info, so gimme salt here, OK? I'd be one happy guy if Joe Cells did work and were viable. Leaning strongly towards the left brain, you gotta show me, let me dink with it, research it, then I'll be on board. Sounds like a lotta fun, really.

Still, I've been willing to experiment. I got some of the first (MLM marketed) subliminals and gave 'em a shot. Can't say I really noticed much. Still have some in the shrink wrap. 'Nuff said.

So along comes PATHS and another online sales letter that I've seen so many times that I've started picking them apart as a hobby. The sales letter didn't impress me so much. Then I start looking at what kind of results folks are getting. Well, they could be shills, I say. They could be reeling from the placebo effect (everybody got pretty excited about those subliminal tapes too). They could be excited about a new chance to socialize about the "New Age Woo-Woo Club". Lejos Afuera, man (hey, has anybody succesfully translated "Far Out" into Spanish? Oh, never mind...).

Nevertheless, based on the posts, I decided to try it. Haven't finished a week yet, but it seems to have an effect like nothing else I've used. It looks like I'm a quick responder, but that could be a blessing or a curse, based on today's experience. Could it be from some other factor? Sure. Could I be on Placebo Row? Sure. Jury's still out.

Did I buy a big pile of BS? Mammal, please....


John H.

[Grace.Haeusler]

Hi Dan,

Putting things in perspective is essential! The High quality brand names I mention is to mirror the High Quality product I Have discovered Paths to be!!

K mart has it's place, but I have not found the same level of gratitude in buying cheap clothes or getting them for free from Good will, as I have in buying High quality exquisitely tailored apparel, Have you?

I hope I have cleared things up further for you Dan. Now concerning Paths let's just be friends and agree to disagree.

[Grace.Haeusler]

V'Ger,

Di me, de donde eres? Como es que tu sabes hablar español? Tu eres un chico muy agradables!!


Con mucho caridad, Grace

[dor]

Originally Posted by Grace.Haeusler

Would you please contact Gucci, Donna Karan, Karl Lagerfeld, Calvin Klein, Hugo Boss, etc and ask them to give their products away for free, or at least for a cheap price. I know many people would really appreciate getting these products for free, and I am sure these companies would still continue to produce High quality products with Little or no profit If they did so! )

Umm Gucci isn't making claims that their handbags will make you lose weight...and frankly, a tee shirt with the name calvin klein is of the same quality and made in the same factory as many a generic tee shirt sold for half the price...so you analogy isn't only faulty but actually reinforces what I was saying...

and, in addition we're not asking the paths people to give away all their products, just 5 subscriptions to 5 objective forum members. and, as i said, if the product actually worked then their endorsements would probably result in 10fold that number of newsubscribers. that's a better ROA than a google ad.

on the other hand if the maker of this produc won't submit to peer reviewed research or even offer the product to testers than it sounds like someone with a bomb movie- someone who makes a great film can't wait to give away tickets to revewers, because he knows good reviews willl encourage more filmgoers, the maker of a bomb tries to concentrate on advertising and keeping the movie out of critics hands...with 'paths' i think we have a case of the latter

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Grace.Haeusler

Hi Dan,

K mart has it's place, but I have not found the same level of gratitude in buying cheap clothes or getting them for free from Good will, as I have in buying High quality exquisitely tailored apparel, Have you?

Hey Grace,

Well, for dress clothes I usually end up finding deals like this. The shirts are Italian, so they are well made and all that stuff, and they come with matching silk ties for about $10 a piece. And I have some nice slacks to go along with 'em, but I don't dress up all that often.

Otherwise, I'm pretty happy in jeans and a $2 goodwill t-shirt. I have about sixty or so shirts and maybe twenty pairs of jeans that came to me through shopping at goodwill over the past few years, and they are all nice and fit great, so my wardrobe is pretty well set for the next few years.

I think the gratitude comes from just being happy with my wardrobe when so many other people always seem so desperate to improve theirs, or to keep up with the latest fashions.

Hey this post is #11 on page 11! Cheers!

[Rin]

You are not a woman!

I love spending my hard (well, not so hard) -earned cash on nice things for myself, and that includes both clothing and self-improvement products. I do it for me. 'Cos I'm worth it, even if others don't agree.

[KevinESM]

The social climate of this conversation is very uncomfortable for me.

I profusely apologize to anyone I offended, or who I was discourteous to. That was not my intention.

I will probably continue looking at this thread, but will restrict my future comments (if any) to only facts that I am personally cognizant of.



Kevin

[dor]

notice how many of the paths cheerleaders are recent subscribers with less than a dozen posts?

V'ger V'ger is online now
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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V'ger is on a distinguished road

Grace.Haeusler Grace.Haeusler is online now
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Location: Belleair Florida
Posts: 17

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[Grace.Haeusler]

Hey Dan

If you can find a product like Paths for for free or for $10 bucks that gives you the same results, message me! For now I will happily pay only $34.95 for top of the line!!

[shant121]

Originally Posted by dor

Is there any peer reviewed research to back this up? In fact, is there anything to back up the claims made here?

Rather than ''testimonials' how about posting some peer reviewed research? If you're so confident in the product, how about offering 5 30 day trials to five uses on this forum whom are respected and trusted and they could post their results. If they were sucessful it would mean 10X the number of subscribers and they would probably keep subscribing so its win win.

That would solve this matter once and for all.

WHAT?? I presume you read Steve or Erin or both blogs. And there are enough things discussed which have no "peer" reviews or no explanations in 'western science', which is limited in its scope.

If they offer a trial to 5 people on this forum, who decides who is respectable and trusted? come again? I would like to try it out myself rather than depend on 5 people on an online forum.

[V'ger]

Grace -

Tuve que utilizar BabelFish y mi memoria para entender su contestación, así que usted sabe.....

Soy de Los Ángeles y de español estudiado en las escuelas públicas. No obstante, yo saben probablemente más sobre Cheech y Chong que hago sobre español.

Así pues, una cosa sucedió y el siguiente y ahora vivo en el noroeste pacífico.

Y por eso, de su ciudad de hermana diagonal, le agradezco por sus palabras buenas y soy muy agradecido para usted también.

Note el bueno -

Juan de Laguna

[dor]

Originally Posted by shant121

WHAT?? I presume you read Steve or Erin or both blogs. And there are enough things discussed which have no "peer" reviews or no explanations in 'western science', which is limited in its scope.

If they offer a trial to 5 people on this forum, who decides who is respectable and trusted? come again? I would like to try it out myself rather than depend on 5 people on an online forum.

which 5 people? Steve, and a moderator, and three people by poll vote

as for research - PATHs has made plenty of claims and is charging quite a bit of money for its program. I would expect some sort of research backing it up - something more than questionable testimonials from people in the MLM pipeline

[Grace.Haeusler]

Hi Dor,

If sitting in one place (this forum) makes one a wise man, then congratulations you are then very wise. If making over 500 posts on a forum no matter what the content then again my congratulations for being a very wise person. I am certain though that you Joining this forum On Jan 12 2007 does not make you an expert on Paths.

I joined this Forum on March 15th 2007 and posted only 19 times to date, all concerning Paths. I feel the sincere need to share my experience here because of The Colonel and Paths, I started Paths on Jan 3rd 2007 so I have been on Paths longer than you have been on this Forum!

I not only have experience with paths personally, but so does my 16 year old son and my 7 year old daughter.

You may have been on this Forum longer than I have, but I have an intimate knowledge of Paths that you can not deny.

A wise man would seek to understand before being understood.

[Grace.Haeusler]

V'Ger'

Ha mi me encanta las peliculas de cheech y chong! Ya yo se por que nos ostros le gusta Carlos Mencia también! LOL Yo soy de Florida, y se hablar español de niña por me madre que nació en Puerto Rico. Me Abuelo fue de Alemán. Gracias por hablar en español con migo. Me gusta practicar!

Adiós por ahora, me voy a dormir!

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Grace.Haeusler

Hey Dan

If you can find a product like Paths for for free or for $10 bucks that gives you the same results, message me! For now I will happily pay only $34.95 for top of the line!!

Hey Grace,

I'm just not too keen on hunting around for subliminal products like PATHS. As Steve has said, "I've listened to many subliminal audio programs over the years, and I can't say any have had much value."

I might try Paraliminals though.

Personally, I already have enough monthly bills already without adding new PATHS for expenditures.