Intention Manifestation or Just Wishful Thinking

[Acting Like Godot]

Thank you, Hanna, you're very kind.

LOA makes me feel humble and proud, all at the same time. Humble, because I sense that there is this truly awesome and amazing ... Force ... at work, throughout the universe.

And so proud, because I am actually a part of it. I cannot help but be a part of it. Just by thinking, I become a part of it.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Markus74

So what? Does that make them robots or holograms?

This would mean descending into madness. Why would I want to do that?

Like what?

Why would they lie to the child? And they couldn't uphold this charade indefinitely anyway. Sooner or later the truth would come out.

Wrong, the people in my dreams don't have a consciousness. If they had those some people would know in the real life what happened to them in my dreams. Which they don't. So they weren't really in my dreams.

You can't compare the dream world to the real world. The events and people in the dream world are behaving totally different than in the real world, etc.

But that's not magic. There's no LoA involved (at least not in your magical way of thinking). It's obvious that people are attracted to people that feel good about themselves, that are open, funny, welcoming, etc.

Wrong, people will react to your behavior. You will not magically manifest them in that way.

LOL. What a lame excuse.

That's so ridiculous but ok, I'll play along. If there is no war, hunger, rapists or amputees and if I created this stuff then how comes you know what these things are? But, wait, wait, you're just my imagination, right?

So what? You can fix your teeth if you break them. Why not regrow your limbs if you lose them?

My inner conflicts (assuming I had them) are not related to world peace.

I don't feel guilty. Why should I? I just pity the ones who got born into wars.

LOL, if you really believe that you should have a little chat with your shrink I guess And if I'm your old-self then tell me what my/your favorite icecream is.

Because the brain messed up filing memories.

Thank you very much. But since I'm your old self and since you've already read the book, I won't waste my time with it again.

I am sitting here trying to think about what I could possibly do to convince you that LoA is real and that it works and I just realized that just like my old self, nothing anyone could say could prove it to me, therefore the only way I think you'll be convinced of it is if you actually get to the point in your life where you've tried other methods and they don't work and you decide to take LoA for a spin just to see if it works and it actually starts working for you.

If I went back in time and talked to myself 5 years ago and tried to convince myself that LoA exists I wouldn't believe myself either. It is something that can only be believed by direct experience. The only question then is whether or not you are ready to try it out or not. It took me a good solid 3 years of workoholism and frustration to realize that "success" isn't achievable by pushing your way through to it. As soon as I embraced LoA, my life very quickly changed for the better and I've been using it to manifest success ever since. Maybe you're right, maybe this is just all a dellusion I've convinced myself of, but my life right now is a lot more fun than it was before and it's not like it's one of those things where I'm still broke and overworked and just decided to make myself feel good about it.

All I know is that since I tried LoA I've been able to get results. I haven't been working more than before, I've been working less. I haven't been trying harder, I've been more lazy. I haven't been making less money, I've been making way more money. My relationships haven't been getting worse, they've been getting better. I have more free time. All of this happened since I've embraced LoA. The few friends of mine who have also embraced LoA have had success, while others who haven't are still 'stuck' in the same rat-rate they were in before.

There's really nothing else I can say to you except that there is no cost for you to try LoA for yourself. I am not trying to sell you a product for $49.99 that will make your life better. I don't get paid for making LoA work. I have nothing to lose or gain if you try LoA or not. I am simply just trying to point out the fact that you will never know whether LoA works or not until you try it out for yourself. No amount of convincing on a forum will make you believe it works and no amount of skepticism from you will make me believe it doesn't. The only difference between me and you is that I tried it and found it working and you're still at the point where you're trying to analyze it logically before you try it out. I know where you're coming from though, as I do the same kind of thing all the time. One of my former bosses used to call it "Analysis Paralysis". It's where you sit there and analyze everything and think you're getting somewhere but you don't actually do anything or try anything or experience anything for yourself.

Best of luck!

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Markus74

The problem with the LoA is that it claims TOO MUCH. If the theory wouldn't insist that ANYTHING is possible, then it wouldn't be so bogus and magic-like.

I already told you. If you feel that it claims too much, then don't ask for so much. Ask for only as much as you can make yourself believe could be possible.

As the results take place, as you witness them happening in your very own life, your capacity to believe will expand. Of course it will. The evidence is appearing right before your eyes. And the more your capacity to believe expands, the more you will be able to create.

That's why I myself am not manifesting world peace, or enlightenment, or an end to global warming.

Yet.

You see, right now I don't think I could do it. My capacity to believe has not developed to that stage. For the same reason, I am unable to manifest the flying ketchup monster.

But I have been able to manifest other lesser things; much, much lesser than world peace definitely, but sufficient to amaze myself at a personal level. And the more I manifest, the more I feel able to manifest, and I have been manifesting bigger and bigger things.

In other words, I'm gradually pushing my limits with LOA. So far, I find that the real limits on LOA are my ability to believe, but I'm pushing that everyday too.

Yesterday, career success. Today, money. Tomorrow, more love in my life. Next year, who knows? Maybe world peace.

Or maybe the flying ketchup monster.

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

That's why I myself am not manifesting world peace, or enlightenment, or an end to global warming.

That's because you, nor anybody else, could manifest that just like that.

You see, right now I don't think I could do it. My capacity to believe has not developed to that stage.

And I bet you never will because it's impossible and there's no evidence at all that it would be possible.

But I have been able to manifest other lesser things; much, much lesser than world peace definitely, but sufficient to amaze myself at a personal level.

Again I'd bet that these lesser things could all be explained rationally, by your actions and by simple, statistically-backed, coincidences.

And the more I manifest, the more I feel able to manifest, and I have been manifesting bigger and bigger things.

Like what? And how long until world peace then? Or aren't you interested in world peace?

In other words, I'm gradually pushing my limits with LOA. So far, I find that the real limits on LOA are my ability to believe, but I'm pushing that everyday too.

Hope to see you on CNN one day, flying through the air with new wings or something along that line!

Yesterday, career success. Today, money. Tomorrow, more love in my life. Next year, who knows? Maybe world peace.

The LoA is just one more motivational strategy. And as such it probably works indeed. But the whole magical stuff is non-sense and unproven. But people like to believe in magic, so it's no surprise that they claim it works. Whether it's the LoA, angels, fairies, prayers and the like.

[ReallyGoodIdeas]

Hi All,

We seemed to have manifested ourselves a sceptic here! I'm invoking Steve's comments from earlier this week.

Markus74 - You might be right!

Joy to you whatever you choose to believe!
Hazel

[Acting Like Godot]

I keep asking you - Markus, why are you so scared of trying it out?

Is it because of this:

even if plenty of good things happen in your life, there still can't be any scientific proof that LOA caused these things, and therefore the experiment would still be pointless?

Let me allay your fears then. If that happens, what's the harm? At that time, you could jolly well just sit back and enjoy all those good things. You could still say, "Okay, experiment over, and I still choose to disbelieve LOA because none of these good things can be scientifically proven to have been created by LOA."

So your safe, logical, conventional worldview will still be preserved, won't it?

Let's say that LOA is just a "motivational strategy", as you put it. Well, since so many people say that this "motivational strategy" has done wonders for them, why don't you just try it out? At the end of it, you could still tell yourself, "Oh, there's no magic to it, it's just a motivational strategy, albeit a very good one." And once again, your safe, logical, conventional worldview would still be preserved, won't it?

So why don't you just try it out?

There seems to be nothing much to lose, and potentially so much to gain. For example, you might end up learning a very useful "motivational strategy".

You are such a logical, rational person. Go through my reasoning above. Tell me why you shouldn't follow my suggestion as outlined above.

Ahhhh. I know why.

You. Are. Afraid.

... that you might discover a very strange new universe.

Chicken.

[Acting Like Godot]

There are many people, by the way, who try to manifest world peace. Happens all the time. Example:

A Prayer For World Peace - St. Catherine of Siena Church, Portsmouth, NH

Buddhist Temples for World Peace

May Peace Prevail On Earth

This one is a toughie, though. Car park lots, job opportunities, conference speaking opportunities, money ... those are a lot simpler.

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I keep asking you - Markus, why are you so scared of trying it out?

I'm not scared. I tried it but it didn't work. Yeah, I know, it was because I didn't believe enough, yada yada ... That's actually BS since at the time I was very open to it. But, for example, my parking lots didn't free up more than before.

And what I truly hate about this theory, or what I think is so sick about it, is that it would mean that people attract their own pain. It would mean that women and children have attracted their rapists, amputees have attracted their amputations, parents that lose a child have attracted this, etc. That's sick in my view. Although the LoA at first glance is intriguing and motivational I think it gets disgusting if you follow the logical consequences through.

As for world peace: people are praying for that since the beginning of wars I guess and yet world peace hasn't been achieved. How could it? It would mean that magic works and people can be remote-controlled, their desires be influenced, etc.

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by ReallyGoodIdeas

We seemed to have manifested ourselves a sceptic here! I'm invoking Steve's comments from earlier this week.

Halleuja! It worked then

So tell me, how wanted me to manifest here?

[Frans]

Originally Posted by Markus74

So tell me, how wanted me to manifest here?

I did!

Your interventions here not only help me to better formulate my thoughts, but as English is not my native language, I'm also obliged to find the correct words to translate my thoughts in English.
Thank you very much for participating in these discussions.

PS. I mean that!

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Frans

I did!

Your interventions here not only help me to better formulate my thoughts, but as English is not my native language, I'm also obliged to find the correct words to translate my thoughts in English.
Thank you very much for participating in these discussions.

PS. I mean that!

Oh, my! So am I your personal robot now?

But seriously, participating in online forums helps me improving my english too. And sometimes you can even learn something

[Frans]

Well, I'm 55 and I'm still learning every day.

[Paul C]

Originally Posted by Markus74

I'm not scared. I tried it but it didn't work. Yeah, I know, it was because I didn't believe enough, yada yada ... That's actually BS since at the time I was very open to it. But, for example, my parking lots didn't free up more than before.

What could be said about that? Practice, yes, that'll do. Don't expect to master something so quickly.

Originally Posted by Markus74

And what I truly hate about this theory, or what I think is so sick about it, is that it would mean that people attract their own pain.

A large amount of the human population attract their own pain, or should I say, the ego attracts the pain. I say this because people more often then not identify themselves as their mind, hence, their ego(s). Although, ultimately, there isn't seperation in consiousness. The ego hungers pain (more often, emotional pain), because without it, it cannot continue to exists as controller.

This is explained very indepth in the book "The Power of Now" As I'm sure that many of us have already read, or at least heard of.

Originally Posted by Markus74

It would mean that women and children have attracted their rapists, amputees have attracted their amputations, parents that lose a child have attracted this, etc. That's sick in my view. Although the LoA at first glance is intriguing and motivational I think it gets disgusting if you follow the logical consequences through.

From a 'normal'/common human perspective this does appear quite sick, but, continueing such logical consequences, these disasters may also lead to the individual in question having a major realization of ones existance. Or, such things had to happen for something very important and impacting to follow afterwards. When we detach ourselves emotionally from these circumstances for a moment of reflection, we often see the bigger picture (and of course, it's far more easier to be an observer of the situation than to be the one experiencing it first-hand).

Originally Posted by Markus74

As for world peace: people are praying for that since the beginning of wars I guess and yet world peace hasn't been achieved. How could it?

This is making many assumptions. What might have happened if no-one ever prayed for world peace up to this point? Would we be experiencing less, or more global strife at this moment? An ant considers a hill the biggest thing he ever saw, if he had not yet seen the scale of a mountain. It's all perspective.

Originally Posted by Markus74

It would mean that magic works and people can be remote-controlled, their desires be influenced, etc.

I'm not aware of how magic might work. But then again, magic is a label applied to something that someone thinks they know anything about. And as such, the same goes for reality. It would be arrogant to think, that you, Markus, would be in any position to draw the line at what could be a function of reality, and what is not. Although, the mind is more than welcome to desperately try and understand something far beyond its own capacity.

P.S. I find your posts to be very entertaining Markus(as well as the counter-posts).

Meaningful experiences to you all.

[Ati]

Beautiful thread evolved and evolving here

I really wish I had the time to read all these threads every day!

I so agree that putting this idea into experience is key, just like anything else. It's really low risk to just put together an intention having to do with every day life, practicing that intention, and seeing what comes of it. Discipline to suspend if not cancel negative thinking that would potentially affect the process is also key.

I so agree hold off on world peace, a million dollars or other things which already seem out of reach. Hold off on things like "a parking place right now" or other things which might bring negativity if they didn't go your way right now. Instead, go for something that you feel could happen, just isn't as much as you'd like right now for you. Aim low for now just so you can watch the process. But aim positive--aim at things like healthy, joyful interactions, improving relationships, healthy habits and so on, hey we are only human, those things can look "out of reach" too, can't they?

Certainly if a person just wants to intellectualize, they and others might get something from this. But if a person really wants to look into this, I think a real time effort to put it into practice in a low risk, benign manner is key to understanding what there is to look into.

Then, after a bit of experience and confidence, go for the big stuff, with some intermediate stuff in between

So much of this seems based on our ability to recognize what is happening around us. If you don't see the parking place, or the opportunity to move forward on something, or the person smiling at you, well then for you it's as if those things weren't there. I think that the LoA and IM are particularly useful to help us recognize good and useful things around us, among other things.

all best,

Ati

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Markus74

I'm not scared. I tried it but it didn't work. Yeah, I know, it was because I didn't believe enough, yada yada ... That's actually BS since at the time I was very open to it. But, for example, my parking lots didn't free up more than before.

Well, at least you tried. And I do feel sorry that it doesn't seem to work for you. If you have sincerely tried, and it doesn't work for you, then I think that is a much more persuasive point than all these "logical" arguments that you have been trying to raise.

And what I truly hate about this theory, or what I think is so sick about it, is that it would mean that people attract their own pain. It would mean that women and children have attracted their rapists, amputees have attracted their amputations, parents that lose a child have attracted this, etc. That's sick in my view. Although the LoA at first glance is intriguing and motivational I think it gets disgusting if you follow the logical consequences through.

I've said it before - there is a detailed explanation for this.

AND anyway, as I have also pointed out to you before, the fact that any theory is "sick" (or for that matter, "intriguing" and/or "motivational") does not mean it is true or untrue.

Eg suppose there is a Theory of XYZ. If it is true, it is true. If it is untrue, it is untrue.

Whether it is "sick" or "not sick" or "intriguing" or "boring" or "motivational" or "discouraging" - if it is true, it is true, and if it is not true, it is not true.

On a separate note, and on a completely secular and non-supernatural basis, you may want to read Mihaly Csikzentmihalyi's happiness research in his book "Flow". Some points would probably startle you. For example, he has research which show how people who have permanently lost two legs in an accident rate their happiness. Nine months after the accident, many of them rate themselves as no happier and no sadder than they were, before the accident occurred.

If you read the book, you may make some surprising discoveries about what happiness really means. Then you may also make some related discoveries about what suffering is, and what it is not.

In some other happiness studies, you find results that show that a poverty & disaster-stricken country like Bangladesh actually has the highest percentage of people in the world who rate themselves as "very happy". In another study, it is discovered that the average Masai herdsman in Kenya is happier than the average US citizen, even though the external conditions of his life seem to be so much harsher.

Research like the above may challenge some of your notions of what suffering, and happiness really mean.

As for world peace: people are praying for that since the beginning of wars I guess and yet world peace hasn't been achieved. How could it? It would mean that magic works and people can be remote-controlled, their desires be influenced, etc.

Leaving LOA aside, there are many illogical points in your post.

Let's define "world peace" as a day, no, a two-week period, no, how a three-month period in human history, when no two countries are at war with each other, and there are no major civil wars. Is this possible?

Of course. You can be an atheist, and also disbelieve in LOA, and still think that this is possible. In fact, although I'm no historian, I would not be surprised if there have been three-month periods in human history when no wars were happening.

So if it really happened (or happened again), would it necessarily show that magic does or does not work and/or that people can or cannot be remote-controlled? I don't think so.

[bgmark13]

yes world peace sounds good...only the russians are coming...


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