Intention Manifestation or Just Wishful Thinking

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Cptn Willard

First, I have to say that I did *not* actually touch my hand either. I am only saying that science can explain it, and that no magic is needed.

No magic is needed either to explain what happened when you did not move your hand. The output of the processing in your brain (which is essentially chemistry and electricity) was that no electrical signal was to be sent to your muscles.

Yes but do I have FREE WILL to either move my hand or not move my hand. And if I do have free will, at the point where I make the decision TO move my hand what exactly causes the electrical impulses to appear to move my hand? Where are these electrical impulses while I'm deciding to move my hand? In some form of electrical impulse buffer? And even if so, when I decide not to move my hand and instead remain motionless, where do these electrical impulses go?

At some point, conscious thought has to be converted into physical form in terms of electricity of some sort. Where does that electricity come from a millisecond before it is released by the thought?

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Markus74

I've heard the podcast, I've read his explanations and I'm still convinced that the theory of Subjective Reality is bogus, flawed and illogical. Not to say offensive. And the fact that you cannot disprove something doesn't make it true. It doesn't even make it probable. Or can you disprove invisible unicorns on Mars?

If the LoA or SR were real then free will cannot exist.

If LoA or SR are real then nothing BUT free will exists. The reason why you think SR takes away free will is because you think that there is more then one consciousness and therefore there could be a conflict. For example, you could walk up to a person and using LoA manifest that that person likes you. However, your conflict is that you think that this would mean that you are taking away that other person's free will to NOT like you. In this way of understanding, you are correct, free will goes out the window for everyone except you the person using LoA.

The solution to this paradox is to realize that nobody else exists in your reality except yourself as a consciousness. Everyone else out there is just a projection you create exactly the same way you do when you are dreaming. For example if you have a dream and in that dream there are 3 bullies who want to beat you up but suddenly you realize this is just a dream so you magically make a Katana sword appear and you chase them away with it, there was no free will taken away from the bullies because the bullies don't have a consciousness in your dream, only you do, they are just projections.

In fact, the bullies are just like parts of your psyche projected outwards that you experience in your dream/nightmare, but they don't really have thoughts or consciousness even though it is damn convincing looking that they do. They act and behave just like the people you see in this world.

LoA and SR work because 100% of everything in your life is made up by you at a subconscious level. It's not like you try to manifest something and then the universe tries to find a best possible scenario to partially satisfy your needs while at the same time trying not to screw up anyone elses needs that might be in conflict with yours. It works in a way that you are getting 100% of everything you are manifesting because YOU are the only consciousness there is. Nobody else exists.

This is much better explained in the book "The Disappearance of the Universe" than I can in here.

[Acting Like Godot]

By the way, Markus74, did you ever think of it this way?

You have nothing to lose, if you try LOA and it doesn't work.

You have so much to gain, if you tried LOA and it worked out.

So why don't you try it out? Just for fun?

Your response is going to be: "Oh if I tried it out, and it didn't work, you guys will just say I didn't believe it enough."

My response to that is - none of us (not me, anyway) is here to prove that you're wrong and I'm right and win a bet or a prize for being clever or anything like that. Frankly, I don't really care that much about your life. If LOA doesn't work for you, well, it's really just too bad for you, I feel a little sorry, but hey we all have to move on and do our own things.

LOA works great for me, I'm here on this forum to share my experience so that others can learn from me, and I can learn more from others too. That's really all there is to it.

Who knows? Maybe LOA really doesn't work for some people. Maybe it's something genetic or whatever. Fish, gorillas and birds have brains but I don't think they can manifest much - if you think like a fish, gorilla or a bird, you'd probably have difficulties too.

But LOA definitely seems to work for quite a lot of people, apart from me! So even if our understanding of LOA is wrong in some aspects, that really would not seem like a disaster to me. If I can manifest wealth, health, happiness, success etc etc for myself and my loved ones, why not. If I can use LOA for even greather things than that, then why not. If IM'ers, by sharing experiences and exchanging tips, can do IM more effectively, then why not?

And if LOA is a hoax, why, we'll all surely realise this soon enough, won't we? And we'll give up after all. So what's the problem?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Markus74

And you still haven't explained the LoA regarding children getting raped or people getting born in chaotic countries. Or did I miss your answer on that?

I would explain it in great detail to you, but there's a lot to type. Anyway, it would just be my view.

My answer would revolve around karma. Before you get all excited and say, "hogwash", you have to understand what karma is. To understand it goes beyond just reading one or two posts in an Internet forum.

Steve Pavlina, by the way, does not subscribe to the karma explanation. Instead he offers the "Subjective Reality" explanation. One problem with the "subjective reality" explanation is that if I die, the world, including you, should cease to exist. However, I believe that after I die, that is, after and my physical body has crumbled to dust, many of you will still be walking around on planet earth.

I had a lot of theoretical issues with karma too. Then I decided to have an open mind and try past-life regression hypnosis. Unlike most other people, I went for the hypnosis not to investigate any burning personal issue, but merely to investigate the possibility of past lives.

That experience was ........ Well, basically I became fully convinced of the karma concept.

Of course, one can always say that I was hallucinating or delusional under the hypnosis. There's no pleasing skeptics. Even if they died and went to heaven, they would say, "I am probably just hallucinating due to the hospital drugs."

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by impaul99

If LoA or SR are real then nothing BUT free will exists. The reason why you think SR takes away free will is because you think that there is more then one consciousness and therefore there could be a conflict.

I've not seen evidence that there is only one consciousness.

For example, you could walk up to a person and using LoA manifest that that person likes you.

And that works at everytime?
Does it also work if you want a person to love, and not just like, you?

The solution to this paradox is to realize that nobody else exists in your reality except yourself as a consciousness. Everyone else out there is just a projection you create exactly the same way you do when you are dreaming.

As I've said. I've seen no indication or evidence to support that theory. MAybe you can fill me in?

For example if you have a dream and in that dream there are 3 bullies who want to beat you up but suddenly you realize this is just a dream so you magically make a Katana sword appear and you chase them away with it, there was no free will taken away from the bullies because the bullies don't have a consciousness in your dream, only you do, they are just projections.

With the subtle difference that you an't just magically invoke a Katana sword. Or maybe you can? I'd like to see that!

LoA and SR work because 100% of everything in your life is made up by you at a subconscious level.

Then why isn't their world peace? Why is there still hunger? Why can't people fly? Why don't amputated people grow their limbs back? Why can't children kill their rapists by sheer will and intention? etc

It works in a way that you are getting 100% of everything you are manifesting because YOU are the only consciousness there is. Nobody else exists.

So if I'm the only consciousness then who are YOU? If you're a figment of my imagination then you don't exist and can't even apply the LoA or whatever.

And so if I'm reading about people that get killed or raped that's because I wanted to read this? But since only I exist, why should I care about other people in the first place? They're just products of my imagination. They don't really exist, they don't really feel.

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

And if LOA is a hoax, why, we'll all surely realise this soon enough, won't we? And we'll give up after all. So what's the problem?

1. The problem is that a lot of people will blame themselves when the LoA doesn't work. Because the only possible element of failure in that hole theory is the human applying it!!!

2. People will blame themselves when bad things happen to them. I lost my job! That was because I subconsciously wanted it! I got raped! That was because I subconsciously wanted it!

3. Because it doesn't explain injustice in the world.

4. It may, and probably does, work though in the lines of positive thinking. But that's a big shot from 'I CAN MANIFEST ANYTHING IF I JUST BELIEVE IT'.

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Steve Pavlina, by the way, does not subscribe to the karma explanation. Instead he offers the "Subjective Reality" explanation. One problem with the "subjective reality" explanation is that if I die, the world, including you, should cease to exist. However, I believe that after I die, that is, after and my physical body has crumbled to dust, many of you will still be walking around on planet earth.

Why do you think that? You can't know? It may well collapse. Why do you exclude that possiblity? If you're the only consciousness then this would be the logical consequence. Afraid to go the whole way?

That experience was ........ Well, basically I became fully convinced of the karma concept.

I've heard different explanations for these experiences. But who knows. Maybe reincarnations is possible. I can't exclude it.

Of course, one can always say that I was hallucinating or delusional under the hypnosis. There's no pleasing skeptics. Even if they died and went to heaven, they would say, "I am probably just hallucinating due to the hospital drugs."

That's why I'm curious as to what happens after we've died, lol.

[Acting Like Godot]

I will tell you about free will then. This is mainly based on my personal meditation experience.

When you meditate, you explore different levels of your consciousness. This is an experiential process. To fully appreciate what I am saying, you have to do it yourself.

Eventually through meditation, you will understand the meaning of free will, or conscious choice. You will realise that while human beings can have free will, most of the time they do not have it.

Most of the time, we operate from conditioned responses. Our minds are very chaotic. Our thoughts drift everywhere. We have very little control over our thinking processes - just how little, we do not know, until we begin to meditate.

To give you a simple example, a very basic meditation exercise is simply to concentrate on your breath. Think of nothing, just focus on your breath, observe the sensation of breathing, as air passes through your nostrils etc. That's it. Do that for 7 consecutive breaths.

Sounds simple? Go try it. As a beginner, you probably cannot do it for even 7 consecutive breaths, without your thoughts drifting to something quite random. Like what you want to eat for lunch tomorrow, and what your ex-girlfriend is doing now, or which team is going to the World Cup finals.

Go try it. Really. Try it now.

And for your next seven breaths, don't think of a pink elephant.







See? You can't even, for seven breaths, not think of a pink elephant.

You now realise that you don't control your thoughts. Your thoughts control you. And your thoughts go wherever you please, and you don't even know it. (That may be why students sometimes look at their textbooks for half an hour and suddenly find, to their surprise, that they are still on the same page).

When you have so little control over your thoughts, do you really think that you have free will? Conscious choice?

Of course not.

Most of the time, you do not even know what you are thinking. Your will was not free. Your choice was not conscious.

Free will can be cultivated. Conscious choice can be cultivated. It is not easy. If it were easy, people wouldn't have problems, say, quitting smoking (simply choose not to put a cigarette in your mouth). People would choose not to be afraid of heights/water/public speaking/ {_insert phobia}. People would choose not to be annoyed by annoying posters on the Internet. People would choose to stop doing things that they already know at the time of doing that they are going to regret later (which is a lot of things).

Etc etc.

Even in IM theory, there is a lot to be said about this. We know that people have many subconscious beliefs about many things. In other words, they do not even know what they are thinking. If you do not even know what you are thinking, how could you be really said to have free will?

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

You will realise that while human beings can have free will, most of the time they do not have it.

Most of the time, we operate from conditioned responses. Our minds are very chaotic. Our thoughts drift everywhere. We have very little control over our thinking processes - just how little, we do not know, until we begin to meditate.

I actually totally agree with you on this point.

But it's a big shot from there to the LoA or SR. If they were right it would mean we could influence other people's decision even though they're not aware we even exist (attracting somebody etc). That's the most bogus part of the theory. Unless of course we accept the highly speculative, flawed, and potentially dangerous theory of only ONE consciousness ...

To give you a simple example, a very basic meditation exercise is simply to concentrate on your breath. Think of nothing, just focus on your breath, observe the sensation of breathing, as air passes through your nostrils etc. That's it. Do that for 7 consecutive breaths.

Sounds simple? Go try it. As a beginner, you probably cannot do it for even 7 consecutive breaths, without your thoughts drifting to something quite random. Like what you want to eat for lunch tomorrow, and what your ex-girlfriend is doing now, or which team is going to the World Cup finals.

Go try it. Really. Try it now.

Actually I've tried this before. I meditate (more or less) regularly. And the pink elephant is a classic, hehe.

[Acting Like Godot]

To tell you the truth, some very traditional meditation teachers know of IM, but advise against it. They would not want to teach it to their students. The reason is that it impedes long-term spiritual development. For example, students may get distracted by using IM to create material luxuries and riches for themselves, instead of concentrating on their spiritual development.

Since you already know something about meditation, I will share with you a perspective on why many meditation schools (especially Buddhism) place emphasis on meditating on feelings of love, kindness, compassion etc. From an IM perspective, since the meditator is focused on love, kindness, compassion etc, the meditator is actually manifesting love, kindness, compassion etc. And these are the only things that matter ultimately.

If you are a meditator, doing thise usual kinds of meditation, you know what will happen next. You become calmer, happier, kinder, less stressed. Your relationships with people around you improve. You treat them with more love and compassion. What is happening is that through meditation, you are manifesting love, compassion etc into your life.

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

For example, students may get distracted by using IM to create material luxuries and riches for themselves, instead of concentrating on their spiritual development.

I'm still waiting for examples of this that do not include thinking and working hard ... because if they include thinking and working then the LoA is not needed.

Most rich people got rich because they worked their asses off. At least at first.

Except for frauds and criminals of course.

[Frans]

Originally Posted by Markus74

I've not seen evidence that there is only one consciousness.

You might re-read this:

Originally Posted by impaul99

if you have a dream and in that dream there are 3 bullies who want to beat you up but suddenly you realize this is just a dream so you magically make a Katana sword appear and you chase them away with it, there was no free will taken away from the bullies because the bullies don't have a consciousness in your dream, only you do, they are just projections.

In fact, the bullies are just like parts of your psyche projected outwards that you experience in your dream/nightmare, but they don't really have thoughts or consciousness even though it is damn convincing looking that they do. They act and behave just like the people you see in this world.

AFAIK, nobody can prove whether subjective reality exists or not, so that's not the point here.

Subjective reality is based on the only certainty I have and that is: "I exist".
Nobody can deny that I exist ("cogito, ergo sum").
Think about it, and you must admit that there are no other certainties.

If you reject subjective reality, you believe something that is not based on a certain fact.

Instead of thinking about the consciousness of other people, it might be a good idea to search for an explanation for your own existence.

[Wreck]

Originally Posted by Markus74

I'm still waiting for examples of this that do not include thinking and working hard ... because if they include thinking and working then the LoA is not needed.

The LoA, simply put, is "like attracts like." If one were to lay around and not think and not work then the LoA, if true, would bring more not thinking and not working. Or am I missing the boat?

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Frans

AFAIK, nobody can prove whether subjective reality exists or not, so that's not the point here.

But dreams are definitely different from the real world, from when you're awake. In the real world Katanas don't appear just like that.

If you reject subjective reality, you believe something that is not based on a certain fact.

I don't reject subjective reality since reality is objective for everyone of us. But I reject Subjective Reality claiming that only I exist. And I'm talking to myself or a figment of my imagination when I'm talking to you here. That makes no sense and there's no evidence to say that you don't exist as an independent being and consciousness.

Instead of thinking about the consciousness of other people, it might be a good idea to search for an explanation for your own existence.

What's that supposed to mean?

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Wreck

The LoA, simply put, is "like attracts like." If one were to lay around and not think and not work then the LoA, if true, would bring more not thinking and not working. Or am I missing the boat?

Of course it's more probable that you get what you want if you're active. Since things do not tend to just appear from thin air. Although LoA tend to claim this.

And if it's your actions that get you things, then what's the LoA good for? The problem with the LoA is that it claims TOO MUCH. If the theory wouldn't insist that ANYTHING is possible, then it wouldn't be so bogus and magic-like.

[Wreck]

Originally Posted by Markus74

And if it's your actions that get you things, then what's the LoA good for? The problem with the LoA is that it claims TOO MUCH. If the theory wouldn't insist that ANYTHING is possible, then it wouldn't be so bogus and magic-like.

I think it's that the LoA is about how your actions (and thinking being an action) get you things.

When riding a motorcycle and taking a turn at high speed, you need to look where you want to go, not where you don't want to go - because you'll end up going where you look. Same is true in auto racing. If you start sliding, your tendency is to look where you're headed, not where you want to go. Chances are that you'll panic, lock the brakes, not be able to turn, and skid right into the tire wall or tree. This is not unlike how the LoA works. By learning how it works and how to apply the principles correctly, you learn where to look and where not to look.

The idea behind believing anything is possible is so that you don't place limits on your thinking. If no one believed that flying was possible, then we wouldn't have airplanes. Or to use my above example, to believe it's possible to look in any direction you like.

And I do agree with you, people tend to go overboard with this stuff.

[Markus74]

And if this LoA works it works on all levels, right?

So I'm here because somebody intended me to manifest here?

[Wreck]

Originally Posted by Markus74

So I'm here because somebody intended me to manifest here?

I would imagine that would be your parents.

[Wreck]

Seriously though, I personally don't believe that reality is truly subjective. And I don't think you have to believe that it is in order to accept the LoA as being a true universal law. However, I do believe that subjective reality is an extremely useful tool through which to view the world.

Part of basic philosophy is that the only thing you can truly know is that you exist. "I think therefore I am." I don't believe that this means that just because there is no emphatic proof, that there aren't other individuals "thinking" and "aming."

My belief is that there is one Universal Mind, one great "I think therefore I am." And that we are all individual manifestations of a great intention. And that we are all one with this Universal Mind. This is where we get our power to create our own intentions (free will), beyond merely acting out conditioned responses.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Markus74

I've not seen evidence that there is only one consciousness.

In fact, the only real evidence you have seen is that there is only one consciousness. You have no way to prove that anyone else around you has the same kind of conscious thinking going on in their minds that you do. They could all just be dream-like projections. After all, when you have a dream you totally believe everyone around you is real, yet they are not, until you wake up.

You have, thus far, chosen to believe the people around you have a conscious thinking process going on in their heads, but you can't prove it. You can only prove that you are conscious to yourself. Even if you're not ready to accept that there is only you based on this way of thinking, you at least have to admit the possibility. If you admit it is possible that this life is exactly like your dreams, where you totally accept there is no other consciousnesses, you can begin to explore that possibility for ways to prove to yourself that this is true. When you are ready for that, the proof will appear.

Another way for me to explain this is to ask you, what would happen if you took a child and from the time they are able to talk and communicate and understand things as their parent you taught them that when they go to sleep, the people they see in their dreams are other people who are also sleeping entering their dreams. So when the child dreams of his grandma, it is because his grandma is in bed sleeping and dreaming of him and thus they are sharing a dream. Therefore, if the child, for example was dreaming and he saw his uncle in the dream and in the dream he broke his uncles vase, the vase wasn't real but his uncle was real inside that dream and saw him break his vase. Then next time the child sees his uncle he might say "I am sorry I broke your vase last night, uncle", the uncle would say "Oh it's ok, but don't let it happen again!". If a group of parents/friends decided to do that to their kid, then the kid would grow up thinking that the people in their dreams have a conscious thinking process. In fact, if you did that for 18 years, the kid would be CONVINCED that this is so and it would hard for him to accept that none of the people in their dreams are really conscious, that they are just projections.

In fact, the only reason you accept that the people in your dreams DON'T have a consciousness, is because society tells you so. It is the same in the waking world. You have no proof in either case.

How would you prove, inside your dream, that the people have no consciousness, without waking up?

And that works at everytime?
Does it also work if you want a person to love, and not just like, you?

Like, love, hate, admire, etc. are all possible. The degree of difficulty is directly proportional to your belief about the issue. If for example you have always found it easy to make friends and you believe that "People like me." it is very easy for you to believe that a stranger will like you, male or female, so you make friends easily, manifesting that. If you believe that you are a horrible person, and nobody likes you, nobody understands you, everyone is mean, you will manifest people around you exactly like that.

With the subtle difference that you can't just magically invoke a Katana sword. Or maybe you can? I'd like to see that!

Sure I could if I wanted to believe in the ability to materialize objects like that out of thin air, however it would screw up this version of reality I'm enjoying right now.

On another note, have you ever tried lucid dreaming? I've done lucid dreaming where I wake up in my dream and I know it's just a dream, yet I *still* am not able to materialize something like a sword out of thin air. I can wake up if I want to at that point, I can participate in the dream, and I have been able to make myself fly, but I haven't been able to materialize objects yet. Isn't it curious that even in a dream, where you KNOW everything is fake, we are still not able to do everything we want? Something to think about.

Then why isn't their world peace? Why is there still hunger? Why can't people fly? Why don't amputated people grow their limbs back? Why can't children kill their rapists by sheer will and intention? etc

Firstly, there is no war, hunger, rapists, amputees, etc. There is only your projection that they exist. Why would you create such stuff? <--- That is the question you should really be focusing on.

I can't answer for you why you create such things, but here are some questions that might stimulate your thinkig process:

- If amputee's could grow back limbs, how much value would you place on your own limbs?

- If the whole world was at peace and everyone out there was super nice to eachother, and everything was perfect out there, would you feel better or worse about your inner conflicts? How would you feel about your own family, siblings, and any friends you currenty fight with about stuff if everyone out there was super peaceful? How would you feel about a discussion such as this one we're having where we somewhat disagree on things, if the rest of the world was totally peaceful and agreeing on everything. Relatively speaking THIS conversation we're having on this server would be the equivelant of a WAR if everything else besides it was perfectly harmonious. Doesn't the projection of a war "out there" where people are killing eachother and doing horrible things make this conversation seem peaceful in comparison? Doesn't it make you feel less guilty having a disagreeable conversaion on here knowing that this is nothing compared to the wars "out there"?

So if I'm the only consciousness then who are YOU? If you're a figment of my imagination then you don't exist and can't even apply the LoA or whatever.

You are almost correct, except it is you who is not real. You are a figment of my imagination. An echo of my past when I was skeptical about this LoA thing just like you are now. I am really just having this discussion with myself.

And so if I'm reading about people that get killed or raped that's because I wanted to read this? But since only I exist, why should I care about other people in the first place? They're just products of my imagination. They don't really exist, they don't really feel.

Now you're starting to ask the proper questions. WHY create this projected reality if you are the only one that exists?

Ever have a really screwed up dream where really screwed up crap happens? Like you're walking to school in your dream and all of a sudden you see a guy on a horse ride by and then some airplanes fly by and there is children running around and then you see your friend from grade 3 and then there is a car accident etc. and then you wake up and think to yourself "What the heck was THAT all about? Why would I have such a screwed up dream?"

To REALLY get the answers to these questions, I highly recommend a book called "The Disappearance of the Universe" and the second part "Your Immortal Reality". They explain this in detail.

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Wreck

Seriously though, I personally don't believe that reality is truly subjective. And I don't think you have to believe that it is in order to accept the LoA as being a true universal law. However, I do believe that subjective reality is an extremely useful tool through which to view the world.

Especially if you live in a rich western world, typing this on a PC and eating chips at the same time ... We really have manifested the right kind of stuff! Unlike those Africans who are dying of hunger. Somebody tell them about the LoA. And quick!

My belief is that there is one Universal Mind, one great "I think therefore I am." And that we are all individual manifestations of a great intention. And that we are all one with this Universal Mind. This is where we get our power to create our own intentions (free will), beyond merely acting out conditioned responses.

Lucky us that the one Universal Mind didn't manifest us getting gassed in Ausschwitz!

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by impaul99

You have, thus far, chosen to believe the people around you have a conscious thinking process going on in their heads, but you can't prove it.

So what? Does that make them robots or holograms?

If you admit it is possible that this life is exactly like your dreams, where you totally accept there is no other consciousnesses, you can begin to explore that possibility for ways to prove to yourself that this is true.

This would mean descending into madness. Why would I want to do that?

When you are ready for that, the proof will appear.

Like what?

If a group of parents/friends decided to do that to their kid, then the kid would grow up thinking that the people in their dreams have a conscious thinking process. In fact, if you did that for 18 years, the kid would be CONVINCED that this is so and it would hard for him to accept that none of the people in their dreams are really conscious, that they are just projections.

Why would they lie to the child? And they couldn't uphold this charade indefinitely anyway. Sooner or later the truth would come out.

In fact, the only reason you accept that the people in your dreams DON'T have a consciousness, is because society tells you so. It is the same in the waking world. You have no proof in either case.

Wrong, the people in my dreams don't have a consciousness. If they had those some people would know in the real life what happened to them in my dreams. Which they don't. So they weren't really in my dreams.

How would you prove, inside your dream, that the people have no consciousness, without waking up?

You can't compare the dream world to the real world. The events and people in the dream world are behaving totally different than in the real world, etc.

If for example you have always found it easy to make friends and you believe that "People like me." it is very easy for you to believe that a stranger will like you, male or female, so you make friends easily, manifesting that.

But that's not magic. There's no LoA involved (at least not in your magical way of thinking). It's obvious that people are attracted to people that feel good about themselves, that are open, funny, welcoming, etc.

If you believe that you are a horrible person, and nobody likes you, nobody understands you, everyone is mean, you will manifest people around you exactly like that.

Wrong, people will react to your behavior. You will not magically manifest them in that way.

Sure I could if I wanted to believe in the ability to materialize objects like that out of thin air, however it would screw up this version of reality I'm enjoying right now.

LOL. What a lame excuse.

Firstly, there is no war, hunger, rapists, amputees, etc. There is only your projection that they exist. Why would you create such stuff? <--- That is the question you should really be focusing on.

That's so ridiculous but ok, I'll play along. If there is no war, hunger, rapists or amputees and if I created this stuff then how comes you know what these things are? But, wait, wait, you're just my imagination, right?

- If amputee's could grow back limbs, how much value would you place on your own limbs?

So what? You can fix your teeth if you break them. Why not regrow your limbs if you lose them?

- If the whole world was at peace and everyone out there was super nice to each other, and everything was perfect out there, would you feel better or worse about your inner conflicts?

My inner conflicts (assuming I had them) are not related to world peace.

Doesn't the projection of a war "out there" where people are killing each other and doing horrible things make this conversation seem peaceful in comparison? Doesn't it make you feel less guilty having a disagreeable conversation on here knowing that this is nothing compared to the wars "out there"?

I don't feel guilty. Why should I? I just pity the ones who got born into wars.

You are almost correct, except it is you who is not real. You are a figment of my imagination. An echo of my past when I was skeptical about this LoA thing just like you are now. I am really just having this discussion with myself.

LOL, if you really believe that you should have a little chat with your shrink I guess And if I'm your old-self then tell me what my/your favorite icecream is.

Ever have a really screwed up dream where really screwed up crap happens? Like you're walking to school in your dream and all of a sudden you see a guy on a horse ride by and then some airplanes fly by and there is children running around and then you see your friend from grade 3 and then there is a car accident etc. and then you wake up and think to yourself "What the heck was THAT all about? Why would I have such a screwed up dream?"

Because the brain messed up filing memories.

To REALLY get the answers to these questions, I highly recommend a book called "The Disappearance of the Universe" and the second part "Your Immortal Reality". They explain this in detail.

Thank you very much. But since I'm your old self and since you've already read the book, I won't waste my time with it again.

[Wreck]

Originally Posted by Markus74

Especially if you live in a rich western world, typing this on a PC and eating chips at the same time ... We really have manifested the right kind of stuff! Unlike those Africans who are dying of hunger. Somebody tell them about the LoA. And quick!

Actually, those of us who live in a rich western world typing and eating chips are, in fact, quite lucky for such a country to have been intended and manifested by our founding fathers. Unfortunately, much of it is taken for granted.

And yes, those who live in poverty need to be told about the LoA.

Originally Posted by Markus74

Lucky us that the one Universal Mind didn't manifest us getting gassed in Ausschwitz!

Humanity is a manifestation of the Universal Mind. Its humanity's free will that allows us to be as horrible or as great as we choose to be.

And yes, I am VERY thankful to have been born when and where I was.

[Cptn Willard]

Originally Posted by impaul99

Yes but do I have FREE WILL to either move my hand or not move my hand. And if I do have free will, at the point where I make the decision TO move my hand what exactly causes the electrical impulses to appear to move my hand?

What happens when you are making a decision is that some electrons go one way in your brain cells instead of another way. That is what a decision is.

And even if so, when I decide not to move my hand and instead remain motionless, where do these electrical impulses go?

They die in your brain, or are re-used, and you move on to your next thought.

At some point, conscious thought has to be converted into physical form in terms of electricity of some sort.

A conscious thought *is* electricity (as well as chemistry). It does not have to be converted.

Where does that electricity come from a millisecond before it is released by the thought?

A millisecond before your thought, this electricity is probably somewhere in the unconscious part of your brain, the part which actually creates the thought.

You can learn a lot about yourself by knowing the basics of neurosciences, and its links to psychology. Give it a try!

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Wreck

Actually, those of us who live in a rich western world typing and eating chips are, in fact, quite lucky for such a country to have been intended and manifested by our founding fathers. Unfortunately, much of it is taken for granted.

So our ancestors all applied the LoA? Except for the American-Indians. Looks like they intended to get overrun and brought to the brink of extinction. Silly Indians! Why would they intent and manifest their own misery?

And yes, those who live in poverty need to be told about the LoA.

So why don't you go to Africa and teach them? Or are you too selfish for that?

Humanity is a manifestation of the Universal Mind. Its humanity's free will that allows us to be as horrible or as great as we choose to be.

Free will? What free will? Do we have free will? Prove it to me.

And yes, I am VERY thankful to have been born when and where I was.

Yeah, lucky you! And me, for that matter. I wouldn't have wanted to get born in a shabby hut and having to fight as a child soldier. But wait, those children are responsible for that, right? They manifested the wars they were fighting in?

[Wreck]

Plato's Cave

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Wreck

Plato's Cave

So? What do you want to illustrate with it?

[Wreck]

Originally Posted by Markus74

So our ancestors all applied the LoA?

I don't know that you would say "applied." You don't apply the law of gravity, it just works.

Originally Posted by Markus74

Free will? What free will? Do we have free will? Prove it to me.

I'll leave it to you to prove that we don't.

Originally Posted by Markus74

I wouldn't have wanted to get born in a shabby hut and having to fight as a child soldier. But wait, those children are responsible for that, right? They manifested the wars they were fighting in?

I already told you I wasn't a proponent of SR. However, someone had to have manifested the wars in which they're fighting. No reason these warrior children couldn't intend peace.

[Wreck]

Originally Posted by Markus74

So? What do you want to illustrate with it?

I just think it's an interesting story that relates to our perception of reality. It was kind of a random post.

[dorothy hanna]

Really good posts here. Acting Like Godot, you do such an impressive job of explaining the LOA, and examples of how it works. Your future is bright. You will do really well for yourself, and others, as well, what you write, so many will understand, and move closer to being a 10, and further away from being a 1.
The force is working within you.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Markus74

I'm still waiting for examples of this that do not include thinking and working hard ... because if they include thinking and working then the LoA is not needed.

Well if you'd like an example, you can read my blog about my recent salary increase in October.

Basically I manifested the intention, then I adjusted something in my methodology. Within a few days, headhunters started calling me to consider new, and very attractive, job opportunities elsewhere. (These were all cold calls, they came to me, I didn't go to them).

Next, due to a remarkable chain of events (or LOA), these confidential discussions became known to my bosses.

They panicked at the thought that I might be leaving. They called my organisation's HQ in Europe. They beat their heads against Global Finance and Global HR; because basically this is not the time of year to hand out salary increases or pormotion - it's against company policies.

But anyway my bosses successfully broke all the policies (LOA at work, I think) and gave me an 82% salary increase with immediate effect; even though they could not officially promote me until Feb 2007.

Basically I didn't do anything much. I manifested an intention. I had three telephone discussions with two headhunters (not more than 1 hour in total). The universe did the rest, and the salary increase came. I'm rolling in cash now.