Subjective Reality Confusion !!

[Light Reality]

Hey everyone. I've recently been looking into the law of attraction and have ALWAYS been a believer (to some extent) of positive thoughts attract positive things.


But, I want to ask a question only to people who believe in subjective reality.


First of all, if I am the only one who is conscious you are all just a manifestation of my consciousness, right? So I created you? Lol that's obviously not true.

But why would I choose (consciously or sub-consciously) for the poverty of millions of people in Africa and other places??????

Thanks

[cylon]

I would think if subjective reality is true, only you have the answer to that question.

[Wax Frog]

If we're all One, I sometimes wonder if this One decided to create and immerse in every possible kind and extreme of human experience. The question then would become 'why'...

[cylon]

I had a dream last night where I was flying around in a space ship like in a video game. Why would I create that?

Why create anything?

[Light Reality]

Answering my questions directly would be more of a help, I don't get the heavy philosophical thoughts yet as I havn't done much research on this entirety.

[cylon]

I don't have the answers for why you would create starving people in Africa.
Subjective reality means you created it, so the answer would have to come from you. Short answer is, I don't know.

The best I can do is make an analogy to a dream, since subjective reality (in my opinion) works the same way. When you have a dream, all sorts of weird things happen, some good, some bad, some funny, some tragic. I don't know WHY we create those things in our dreams, but we do. Maybe there's no "reason", they exist in our minds simply because they exist in our minds.

I wouldn't suggest putting your mind on people starving though. A lot of people who start with this stuff get sidetracked because they put all their focus on the pain and suffering of others, which only increases the awareness of those things in their lives.

A more effective question might be "why have I created so many people on earth who are happy and healthy and who live their lives to the fullest?"

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Light Reality

Hey everyone. I've recently been looking into the law of attraction and have ALWAYS been a believer (to some extent) of positive thoughts attract positive things.


But, I want to ask a question only to people who believe in subjective reality.


First of all, if I am the only one who is conscious you are all just a manifestation of my consciousness, right? So I created you? Lol that's obviously not true.

Well, I can understand your confusion. But you're looking at it from the wrong angle from my perspective. You did not create all that. And by "you" I mean the personality your consciously perceive yourself to be. That is merely one reflection of the "real you" which contains everything in existence.

It is not that you alone are real, and everyone else is a hollow projection of your ego. They are all equally as real as your ego. But all egos are a portion of Source, or God. Everyone is equally "real", and also, equally "unreal".

Originally Posted by Light Reality

But why would I choose (consciously or sub-consciously) for the poverty of millions of people in Africa and other places??????

Again, your ego did not choose that. Other egos seemingly chose that. They are having their experiences, you are having yours. However, both of your experiences are part of a larger being's experience (which is the REAL you btw). The god level, in other words.

Reality is subjective to the REAL you. There is nothing objective, or external, to an unbounded essence like consciousness. The small portion you consciously identify with is also subjectively having experiences of its own being. There is a kind of "pseudo-objective" reality created by the consensus observation of all egos present in a given reality. But it is still given its reality by the observation of consciousness.

What you experience is your conscious reality. All realities are enfolded in Source -- even the ones you consider to be "imaginary".

The negative experiences exist, to highlight the positive experiences. How could you truly understand or know what light was without experiencing the absence of it? Duality is all about contrast. The contrast increases our awareness.

[Light Reality]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

Well, I can understand your confusion. But you're looking at it from the wrong angle from my perspective. You did not create all that. And by "you" I mean the personality your consciously perceive yourself to be. That is merely one reflection of the "real you" which contains everything in existence.

It is not that you alone are real, and everyone else is a hollow projection of your ego. They are all equally as real as your ego. But all egos are a portion of Source, or God. Everyone is equally "real", and also, equally "unreal".



Again, your ego did not choose that. Other egos seemingly chose that. They are having their experiences, you are having yours. However, both of your experiences are part of a larger being's experience (which is the REAL you btw). The god level, in other words.

Reality is subjective to the REAL you. There is nothing objective, or external, to an unbounded essence like consciousness. The small portion you consciously identify with is also subjectively having experiences of its own being. There is a kind of "pseudo-objective" reality created by the consensus observation of all egos present in a given reality. But it is still given its reality by the observation of consciousness.

What you experience is your conscious reality. All realities are enfolded in Source -- even the ones you consider to be "imaginary".

The negative experiences exist, to highlight the positive experiences. How could you truly understand or know what light was without experiencing the absence of it? Duality is all about contrast. The contrast increases our awareness.

Ok, thank you for your insight, well my insight haha no.. I don't know.

Please tell me how you choose to manifest your reality different from the countless drones out there (I say countless drones right now because of my current situation as a university student, I sometimes feel I am the only one that's alive) But then again the countless drones all have their own lives and stories, they just havn't tapped into them true selves?

It makes more sense when you say everyone is not just a projection of my thoughts. Because that would mean I control them, which clearly isn't true.
But that also means reality is subjective to the individual right?

So if it's subjective to me, I should be able to bend the laws of physics " There is no spoon"

Can you? Can anyone?



P.s I still don't get the poverty thing in regards to subjectiveness.... who would choose to live that way?? They are their own selves so why must they suffer so?

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Light Reality

Ok, thank you for your insight, well my insight haha no.. I don't know.

Please tell me how you choose to manifest your reality different from the countless drones out there (I say countless drones right now because of my current situation as a university student, I sometimes feel I am the only one that's alive) But then again the countless drones all have their own lives and stories, they just havn't tapped into them true selves?

Well, some of them have. Your alignment (or lack thereof) with the higher (and more encompassing) reality can be viscerally felt within you in the form of emotions.

When you feel GREAT, you are tapped in and turned on to the connection with your source. This means you not offering contradictory thoughts in relation to your desires. When you feel really down in the dumps, it means you have separated yourself (by what you CHOSE to focus on) from your inner source of love, wisdom, and power.

So you see, its just matter of focusing on the positive rather than the negative. The only thing that stops anyone from doing anything is their own beliefs, desires, thoughts, and intent. When those all congruent, reality manifests.

Originally Posted by Light Reality

It makes more sense when you say everyone is not just a projection of my thoughts. Because that would mean I control them, which clearly isn't true.
But that also means reality is subjective to the individual right?

So if it's subjective to me, I should be able to bend the laws of physics " There is no spoon"

Can you? Can anyone?

I've seen and experienced some strange things (that I don't care to discuss at this time). But yes, the law of physics are amenable to change given the right circumstances. What we call "objective reality" is really a "consensus reality". At a very deep layer of our being, we all agree that such and such exists, and so it does.

The closer you get to your original being, which is the Source level we spoke of earlier, the more power and influence you have over a given consensus reality.

Originally Posted by Light Reality

P.s I still don't get the poverty thing in regards to subjectiveness.... who would choose to live that way?? They are their own selves so why must they suffer so?

Have you not experienced negative things in your own life?

Why did YOU choose that? [questioning stare ]

You see, most are not aware of what they really are. They don't realize they have a choice. If one is not aware of choice, then one does not HAVE a choice, for all rights and reasonable purposes.

You only have free will to the extent that you are aware that you do. All suffering is the result of ignorance. But don't use the idea of "suffering" to disconnect your from your Higher Self.

From Source's perspective, ALL things are positive -- even the things YOU have come to believe are negative. This takes a while to really grok and understand.

It's all just a cosmic game, anyhow. Consciousness puts itself to sleep so that it can enjoy the delicious process of reawakening again. To know that which it is, it must know that which it is not.

You couldn't experience the sensation of growth if you didn't first experience the sensation of ignorance. You inherently know everything, so the illusion was necessary.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Light Reality

P.s I still don't get the poverty thing in regards to subjectiveness.... who would choose to live that way?? They are their own selves so why must they suffer so?

"They" are aspects of your consciousness. So is the "person" you normally think yourself to be. Like the characters in a dream, or the avatars in a game. So the answer to your question is: YOU choose it. That's why they must suffer so. Your consciousness, that is, not the aspect you normally think yourself as limited to be -- the person called "Light Reality."

So in what way are you living poverty and suffering? Resolve that and watch poverty and suffering in "others" resolve, too, just like looking in the mirror.

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by Light Reality

Answering my questions directly would be more of a help, I don't get the heavy philosophical thoughts yet as I havn't done much research on this entirety.

If there were a clear, direct answer to the question you posed, I think we'd have it already.

[Light Reality]

Originally Posted by Angela

"They" are aspects of your consciousness. So is the "person" you normally think yourself to be. Like the characters in a dream, or the avatars in a game. So the answer to your question is: YOU choose it. That's why they must suffer so. Your consciousness, that is, not the aspect you normally think yourself as limited to be -- the person called "Light Reality."

So in what way are you living poverty and suffering? Resolve that and watch poverty and suffering in "others" resolve, too, just like looking in the mirror.

But that would mean they don't have their own consciousness and I govern everyones lives, which blatantly isn't true.

[newmark]

There is both objective reality and subjective reality. True objective reality is most likely unattainable, although as we become more conscious we move closer to this.

Every person has their own subjective reality. You don't control them. But with practice you may be able to control yourself, your own subjective reality. The idea of subjective reality is a tool to control your life more.

[newmark]

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

If there were a clear, direct answer to the question you posed, I think we'd have it already.

This is the clearest answer!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Light Reality

But that would mean they don't have their own consciousness and I govern everyones lives, which blatantly isn't true.

If you believe that, you're not using the perspective of subjective reality.

From the perspective you're using, each person has their own separate consciousness. In subjective reality, there is only One consciousness, of which the person you normally think of as you ("Light Reality") is an aspect, and so is "Angela" and so are all the other aspects of One Consciousness.

[Light Reality]

Originally Posted by Angela

If you believe that, you're not using the perspective of subjective reality.

From the perspective you're using, each person has their own separate consciousness. In subjective reality, there is only One consciousness, of which the person you normally think of as you ("Light Reality") is an aspect, and so is "Angela" and so are all the other aspects of One Consciousness.

Well yeah, I'm wanting to find out more about subjective reality.

It's not possible though, we all have different thoughts, lives, ideas, dreams. One person doesn't govern the lives of others, if that were so I wouldn't choose there to be any poverty.

Or I wouldn't choose 'manifest' a guy to get beaten up and mugged on the streets one night.

Different people being 'aspects' of ONE consciousness I sort of understand. But everyone being separate is just something that is unavoidable. My personal consciousness (which everyone has, call them thoughts or not) won't effect the lives of someone half way across the world.

Unless there's some universal attraction, which I also get.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Light Reality

Well yeah, I'm wanting to find out more about subjective reality.

Steve has written a few articles that will *tell* you more about subjective reality, and you could read "Busting Loose from the Money Game" to read more about subjective reality.

You can know a lot about subjective reality without ever shifting your perspective, if you want to. If you want to shift your perspective, however, I'd start by letting go, temporarily, of believing your thoughts are The Truth. Believing your thoughts are objectively true is an excellent way to keep yourself firmly rooted in your current perspective.

Don't worry; you can always have your old perspective back, if you want it.

If you'd like to practice moving freely among perspectives, loosen up your perspective-shifting muscles, try the Spinning Ballerina.

[Light Reality]

Originally Posted by Angela

Steve has written a few articles that will *tell* you more about subjective reality, and you could read "Busting Loose from the Money Game" to read more about subjective reality.

You can know a lot about subjective reality without ever shifting your perspective, if you want to. If you want to shift your perspective, however, I'd start by letting go, temporarily, of believing your thoughts are The Truth. Believing your thoughts are objectively true is an excellent way to keep yourself firmly rooted in your current perspective.

Don't worry; you can always have your old perspective back, if you want it.

If you'd like to practice moving freely among perspectives, loosen up your perspective-shifting muscles, try the Spinning Ballerina.

You're right It will come with experience no doubt.

My perspective was shifted a while ago thankfully hahah. Out of the mist so to speak, now I've been thrown back in ... I don't belong in uni.. anyhow yeah after a while I could make the ballerina turn at will within a second. Cool stuff.

Thanks for your support.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Light Reality

... after a while I could make the ballerina turn at will within a second. Cool stuff.

Great, with that fluid mind, you might now want to read this article.

You're not making the ballerina turn at will within a second, you're making your perspective shift at will within a second.

[Cochonette]

I have a very "clear" and simple explanation for subjective reality, and this is what I tell everyone when I start talking about it: You can't comprehend anything outside of comprehension, can't be conscious of anything outside of consciousness, can't experience anything outside of experience. Both "subjects" and "objects" are ways of comprehending, we are conscious of them insofar as we may even call them "subjects" and "objects," and they are aspects of our experience. Okay, I normally don't even explain as much as that. But it means that reality as you comprehend/experience/are aware of it is subjective, and that is the only reality you will ever know and therefore the only reality that matters as far as you are concerned. Once you become conscious of it, it concerns you. It is part of your consciousness.

My question to you is: why would any other reality matter? Should a beetle care about something it will never, ever in any way whatsoever comprehend or even be aware of? Should you?

The ambiguity only comes when you start thinking of your consciousness, and therefore your reality, as something outside of you. The very concept of reality is created by you. There is no point of neutrality in the universe which we may call totally objective reality, for the moment we call it something it is subjective, it is projecting from our subjectivity, our vantage point. This is similar to Einstein's theory of relativity.

Basically, it just means that thoughts are our only way of knowing reality. If it is not a thought, it is not known.

[cylon]

Well, I'll say it again... every night when you dream you interact with all sorts of people who appear to have their own lives and their own motivations. In the dream, you experience them as "real" people. And sometimes you experience bad stuff in those dreams too. Stuff you would never actually "want" to experience.

Every night we experience a world full of people with lives of their own, sometimes the interactions are good, sometimes not. Sometimes the events are good, sometimes not. Yet, the entire dream world is our unique creation. The dream world IS subjective reality.

If we have this ability when we "sleep", is it such a bizarre idea that it could extend to the world we experience while "awake"?

The model for comprehending subjective reality is already there. Next time you wake up from a dream, take a moment to consider the vast worlds you created while sleeping.

[Light Reality]

Originally Posted by cylon

Well, I'll say it again... every night when you dream you interact with all sorts of people who appear to have their own lives and their own motivations. In the dream, you experience them as "real" people. And sometimes you experience bad stuff in those dreams too. Stuff you would never actually "want" to experience.

Every night we experience a world full of people with lives of their own, sometimes the interactions are good, sometimes not. Sometimes the events are good, sometimes not. Yet, the entire dream world is our unique creation. The dream world IS subjective reality.

If we have this ability when we "sleep", is it such a bizarre idea that it could extend to the world we experience while "awake"?

The model for comprehending subjective reality is already there. Next time you wake up from a dream, take a moment to consider the vast worlds you created while sleeping.

I understand that. I'm a big fan of lucid dreaming and have been doing it for years, occasionally.

The DREAM world is subjective yes.. so you're telling me you can do whatever you want in your waking life like in a lucid dream and control your environment and defy the laws of gravity?

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Light Reality

The DREAM world is subjective yes.. so you're telling me you can do whatever you want in your waking life like in a lucid dream and control your environment and defy the laws of gravity?

I haven't had any personal experience of defying the "laws" of gravity, and don't really have the desire to. Is that really all you took away from my post?

I was originally commenting on your worry that you would create starving people in Africa. My point was that in your dreams you create such things all the time. Yet we don't torture ourselves wondering why it happened. We say "it's a dream" and that's usually the end of it.

May I ask you how you came to be interested in Subjective Reality, and the Law of Attraction?

In order to learn about something, you must be open to understand it. In several of your posts I see "not possible" "blatantly untrue" come up repeatedly. You seem to be coming at this from the standpoint that you already don't want to believe it.

[Mounds]

Hi LightReality,

Unfortunately, I am not a believer in subjective reality. But one thing I can tell you is that you did not manifest starving people in Africa. Nor did you manifest child molestation on reserves in Canada, genocide in Bosnia, the attacks on the World Trade Center, ect.
I agree that it's not good to focus on the negative but it's also important to realize that it is happening to real people. It might be happening to "those people" or "over there" but it is happening.
I know I come off strongly in these posts and let me explain. My wife is from Bosnia and fled the war, leaving everything (friends, family, her home)
behind. Subjective reality and intention-manifestation is great if your not the one starving in Africa or getting shot at in war.

-Tim

[cylon]

Everything that happens to another happens to you. Everything. Because in subjective reality, you are everything in existence. It's not like there is this weird dream world, and you are the only real human being, walking around it. You're just as much as an illusion as the other people are. No one is actually "real". The only thing that is real is the awareness underneath all of that, which is the one awareness that creates everything.

For people first learning about SR, I would go over Steve's articles on SR again, because you want to get past the concept of solipsism (ego creates reality), which is the perspective many assume is SR (consciousness creates reality).

Here's an article on that very topic to get you started:

Subjective Reality Simplified

[Light Reality]

cyclon I don't mean to be so close minded to SR lol. In fact I'm a very open minded person, which is the reason I made this topic to find out more from more than 1 person.

I became interested in it.. I don't know a point but always have been. I'm 20 now maybe since I was 16 ish.. I just knew there was more to the day to day living of the everyday person, which wasn't the nicest environment to be in sometimes living in a grubby city.


The above poster pretty much summed up my views and wanting to understanding more on SR.

"I agree that it's not good to focus on the negative but it's also important to realize that it is happening to real people. It might be happening to "those people" or "over there" but it is happening."

As I said in my original post I understand the law of attraction but when these negative things are happening to REAL people in my reality and yours I find it hard to accept this is due to the manifestation of my consciousness.

[cylon]

Have you read any books on LOA or anything like that? I'm just curious how you found yourself here on our humble IM forum.

I never even heard of SR until I had been here a long time, it's not covered in any of the LOA material I've read. Stuff like it, but nothing that says "subjective reality".

Originally Posted by Light Reality

but when these negative things are happening to REAL people in my reality and yours I find it hard to accept this is due to the manifestation of my consciousness.

Why are you so sure they are REAL people? Why did you put it in uppercase like that? Seems to me this topic is causing you a lot of frustration.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Light Reality

As I said in my original post I understand the law of attraction but when these negative things are happening to REAL people in my reality and yours I find it hard to accept this is due to the manifestation of my consciousness.

Your consciousness is not "Light reality", it is the Self (all-that-is, God, ...). Realize that that Self is larger than your mind could ever imagine and is choosing these experiences to have. There is no polarity (good/bad/right/wrong) in Self. Everything is as it is. It is not wrong to be poor and starving. It is as it is and it is all Self.

How to deal with this? How to make change in the reflection of Self? Angela told you:

Originally Posted by Angela

So in what way are you living poverty and suffering? Resolve that and watch poverty and suffering in "others" resolve, too, just like looking in the mirror.

[Mounds]

Originally Posted by cylon

Why are you so sure they are REAL people? Why did you put it in uppercase like that? Seems to me this topic is causing you a lot of frustration.

This is a very frustrating topic for me. It also saddens and hurts me. I find it very unsympathetic towards people who have experienced drastic circumstances in life.
I once witnessed a drunk woman give birth to a FAS baby. That baby will never have a chance at a normal life, if this individual survived the night. I never found out.
My sister is special needs and is treated differently (in a negative way) because of it. Who manifested that?
Additionally, talk to a social worker about the atrocities they deal with sometime. You'd be shocked.
Unfortunately, none of these people can wish away their problems, no matter how hard they try. I'm sure Anne Frank hoped and hoped and hoped that the Nazi's would go away (that is if she wasn't a fabrication). Some of them get lucky and move into better circumstances (my wife for example). Others don't (special needs people, fetal alcohol syndrome babies).
Anyhow, that's my story.

[cylon]

I'm aware you have a distaste for this topic. However, no one is asking you to believe it.

I respect your right to have different beliefs about how life works than me. Can you bring yourself to do the same?