More on Karma - Part 2

[themaster]

The original "More on Karma" thread was started because of this thread..

Is there "Law of Justice" in Universe?

Now I have even more information to add.. as I found another nice karma description article.. and it bares discussion a bit..

Akashic Records on Karma > Akashic Transformations

You see when ALG was talking about karma he was talking about story's he indentified in his life that he was sure were karma.. and you know what they likely, were..

But here's the thing.. it would be unlikely for most of us to have access to spiritual information on a soul level.. and know where are karma is applied and how.. so instead of knowing.. you have to spend your time.. turn on your "ego"/analyzer and look at your day.. looking to find karma.. (same can be said true for LOA too )

So I say that ALG is creating karma in his life and is just basically choosing to opt-in.. and I just wish to advise people karma can be opted out this is part of the idea of leaving 3d..

I'd also like to say that ALG can just modify or maybe already has modified his belief/definition about this.. to not be limiting.. and as such karma in this case can just be a viewed as different definitions..

Basically what I'm saying is.. I think it's a waste of time and resources (just my opinion) to spend your day examining your life via "ego" looking for things karma related.. then indentifying them and them proofing them.. and more so if law of attraction is correct.. then you are creating more Karma experiences just by thinking about it

I claim a karma opt-out life.. if I spent my day or many of my days turning my "ego" over the situations that happen to me.. I doubt I could find one instance of where karma was happening.. because I have optioned out.. and sometimes I have to remind myself of that.. cause I have a little fear about it too

What I am really trying to say with this is?

Simple..

I believe karma is optional in your life and when allowed in your life in a certain form is limiting.. I am merely suggesting that release of this limitation has benefits for all.. (per my understanding in our long, long ago past that is a illusion it didn't use to be optional but is now.. and I suggest everyone take advantage of less limitations)

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by themaster

I claim a karma opt-out life..

What that means is that there are no consequences in your reality, whatever you think.

Therefore you can't be a LOA user.

[themaster]

I claim there is a way out ALG.. that's all I'm saying.. karma has been made optional.. it's not a lock-in system..

Opting out of karma is just like forgiving yourself.. really.. it doesn't have to be super complicated..

Really.. if you were hitler.. do you think you would do things different?

If we all create our own reality.. and we really take responsibility for it.. then we acknowledge/realize we have killed billions of people through simple actions like buying headache medicine from the supermarket.. at the same time we have brought forth billions of people/animals etc. just to support us..

If that's your consequences in action then fine.. I think one thing I can now say is unlike the previous thread.. I can let consequences be more neutral this time Rather than a negative limiting idea..

If you don't see karma as limiting.. ALG then maybe it's not.. but if you live your life on eggshells.. trying not to create negative karma.. then you're really not living your life the way it was meant to be at all.. perhaps if your lived your life in the 1800's before 4d was here.. that would be fine way to go.. but now is the time of unlimited expansion.. now is our time to wake up and change our consciousness and our ways of thinking and experiencing limitation.. now is the time where we remember our connections.. and can no longer stand in a dark corner and say.. "I'm all alone, this world is terrible" that illusion is dissolving..

And I really have to say the beliefs systems and definitions involved with the word "karma" in this reality are sometimes very limiting.. and can create a walking on eggshells experience for some out there.. even if maybe you're not one of them.

[nicbrahms]

I like to think that we create the theory of Karma, in that if we were truly of the moment and knew that we chose to come here and experience all we can, everything being neutral of course, only we put meaning on events. Then there is no good or bad karma.

Bad Karma exists cause we say certain ways of thinking and behaving create bad feedback from the universe. However, if we are the 5th dimension entities that chose to be here during this amazing time, we should be relishing each and every experience as there is nothing but experience. Good or bad be damned, thats human perspective.

Experience is experience is experience for the beauty of experience. Sometimes I can become so detached that no matter what happens I just look on with an inane grin on my face, i.e being immersed in the moment and becoming truly detached to my experience.

There is no karma, unless you decide things will have the meanings we give to them, to be truly enlightened is to know that there is only experience for the sake of experience.

Someone you love dies, thats experience.
You win the lotto, thats experience.
Your dog has a car accident, thats experience.
Your life is stagnant and thats experience.
Your told you have 6 months to live, thats experience.
You have a kid, thats experience.

You can only give a name to thoughts which bring experience to you which you decide to term bad, as bad karma.

IT IS ONLY EXPERIENCE AND WE SHOULD LEARN TO HAVE FREEDOM WITH IT AND ENJOY IT, IT IS NEUTRAL.

I think thats what Eckhart Tolle is trying to tell us, its irrelevant just experience.

Love, light and luck

Nic Brahms

[Anagogy]

I see karma as simply our spiritual itinerary of chosen lessons for a given incarnation. Those lessons being determined by the "imbalances" in a given beings soul energy. These would be imbalances restricting that souls' ability to tap into "intelligent infinity".

For example, lets say somebody incarnated in a physical body for the purpose of learning empathy.

This could involve any number of different experiences to learn this quality, but whatever experiences are necessary will continue to be attracted to a given individual until they grasp this lesson that they incarnated to learn. To me, this would be karma. It's no punishment, it's simply a quality one is trying to develop.

Now, it is certainly possible for a soul to be involved in negative acts toward others in previous lives and when that soul died, it became very aware of how its particular actions impacted other souls (you can't help but become aware of how you impacted others in the interlife). From a more broad perspective of cause and effect, this could very well create a desire within that soul to learn those lessons of empathy that would tend to prevent actions resulting in the deliberate suffering of other beings.

Thus it would incarnate in similar circumstances to the negative one it created before in order to gain a foothold in empathy. This is just one possibility of course, not to imply there aren't other ways to acquire that quality, but it seems direct experience is one of the best and most effective ways.

It appears to me, from my research of interlife hypnotic regression, that no outside force punishes souls for their negative acts in life. However, the soul itself does inflict punishment on themselves. They act as judge and jury to their own acts, the interlife being an extremely broad state of awareness where you are intimately aware of the ramifications of your actions from the previous incarnation.

The punishment is not payment, however, it is for the purpose of learning not to that again.

Originally Posted by themaster
So I say that ALG is creating karma in his life and is just basically choosing to opt-in.. and I just wish to advise people karma can be opted out this is part of the idea of leaving 3d..

I agree that Karma can be opted out, but to "opt out" in my opinion, means to resolve it and not create any more. What would you do if I told you that you can't leave 3D until you resolve it? That is what I've learned from people regressed into the interlife. That's a big part of moving out of 3rd density -- resolving your karma, which as you said:

Originally Posted by themaster
Opting out of karma is just like forgiving yourself.. really.. it doesn't have to be super complicated..

Well that's part of it, but you also have to forgive others as well. But then, what is forgiveness -- true forgiveness? To forgive, you have to return them, mentally, to the state they were before the "infringement" was incurred. Is that so easily done?

Speaking for myself, I can say that is a tall order. I think it would be egotism to say otherwise.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

Well that's part of it, but you also have to forgive others as well. But then, what is forgiveness -- true forgiveness? To forgive, you have to return them, mentally, to the state they were before the "infringement" was incurred. Is that so easily done?

Speaking for myself, I can say that is a tall order. I think it would be egotism to say otherwise.

Yes, I say it's so easily done.. we didn't design this system to be a tormentor.. really as you say we choose to be "tormented"

And where does "free will" ever leave the equation?

It's my understanding in "the shift" that giving up/releasing karma is part of that cycle.. and we can release karma from all our lifetimes.. not just this one

How can we be "Masters of Limitation" and choose to rise up with all this baggage??

I think the answer is we can't.. we each have to release this baggage and for those that won't do it consciously with a act.. energy and systems will be put in place to take care of it.. that's what I think..

If the 3rd dimension is just rigid.. action-reaction.. and we've all agreed to step up to something higher.. how else would it be done?

I'm not saying everyone will step up.. I am saying however anyone that doesn't.. going to be in those eddy's talked about..

Originally Posted by Anagogy

I think it would be egotism to say otherwise.

I think you and I can agree about one thing.. the concept of karma is all ego

Originally Posted by Anagogy

To forgive, you have to return them, mentally, to the state they were before the "infringement" was incurred. Is that so easily done?

Why does one have to return them, mentally? I don't understand that concept.. if this game is interacting with ourselves.. and it's easy enough to interact with ourselves and even sling our "mud" all over each other.. why is there a limitation to "return"? I'm not saying return isn't as easy as doing the forgiveness.. but where are these limitations and why do they have to be followed.. see to me this is EGO silliness..

When we were designing earth.. we never went out and said.. now we're going to give you knowledge of karma.. so you can act responsibly and limited..??

Our reality is shared.. yes?

And in that design, we all designed it to make allowances for each other.. which is why food can affect people in different ways.. which is why different experiences have different effects.. because we're all different configurations..

You know honestly.. I get the feeling that like some of the ideas jesus gave us and others that were taken by humans in a negative way.. from a higher perspective our take on karma is a bit laughed at.. as in we have turned it silly just as we have turned those ideas..

You see the knowledge of karma.. is saying that.. we should all be watchful in our lives and be careful what we do.. we should integrate that into brains/ego and then try and dampen the effects.. I say since 4d is already here.. you can already rise above it and opt-out..

And isn't that what ALG's story's really are.. when he looks for karma patterns he had to "ego" them out.. he also had to say.. karma I opt-in and he observed his reality for results.. I wonder if ALG.. released his karma as a experiment.. if he'd be able to then "ego" his reality and see the results were gone.. since each of us is in our own reality.. I can only make a intuitional guess

All I am really saying is.. from a higher perspective.. I don't believe we were really supposed to take the knowledge of karma.. to such huge "ego" places we've taken it too.. to me karma appears as another human screw up of advanced information and ideas.. and most people "ego'ing" it.. are putting themselves in a "ego" trap..

Just cause I wrote all this up I also went for more information..
Uriel's Message - Good Karma or Bad? > Uriel Heals

What I was looking for was karma and loa..
The Law of Attraction > Akashic Transformations

And finally the last one I found.. (short and the best)
Love from your Spiritual Heart > Uriel Heals

[TheColonel]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

I see karma as simply our spiritual itinerary of chosen lessons for a given incarnation. Those lessons being determined by the "imbalances" in a given beings soul energy. These would be imbalances restricting that souls' ability to tap into "intelligent infinity".

This is my basic belief. Karma isn't a bad thing, it's a syllabus. It's dissonance seeking resolution.

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by themaster

Why does one have to return them, mentally? I don't understand that concept.. if this game is interacting with ourselves.. and it's easy enough to interact with ourselves and even sling our "mud" all over each other.. why is there a limitation to "return"? I'm not saying return isn't as easy as doing the forgiveness.. but where are these limitations and why do they have to be followed.. see to me this is EGO silliness..

Originally Posted by themaster

When we were designing earth.. we never went out and said.. now we're going to give you knowledge of karma.. so you can act responsibly and limited..??

Originally Posted by themaster

All I am really saying is.. from a higher perspective.. I don't believe we were really supposed to take the knowledge of karma.. to such huge "ego" places we've taken it too.. to me karma appears as another human screw up of advanced information and ideas.. and most people "ego'ing" it.. are putting themselves in a "ego" trap..

You use the word "ego" alot. To be frank with you, it perplexes me somewhat. What exactly do you mean when you say "ego" this "ego" that? I mean, I know MY definition, but what exactly is it about the idea of karma that makes it "ego", and everything YOU say not ego? I'm just curious. It appears, from your usage of it, that you apply the label to anything that smacks of any kind of limitation whatsoever.

Because frankly, as I understand the word, it seems far more egotistical to assume there are NO limitations.

You seem to think limitations are inherently bad. I disagree. Limitations are necessary in order to empower creativity. Ever played a video-game where the first thing you did was type in the cheat codes? Yeah it might be fun for half an hour, but then the luster wears off. It ruins it for me, personally. It's MUCH funner and more interesting when you play the game as it was designed to be. Challenge is where it's at. When there are no limitations, there is no challenge. And no challenge makes Jack a dull boy IMO.

I can't help but look around and notice that the creator (or higher self - however you prefer look at that) placed challenges all about our reality. I think, just maybe, perhaps, there was a reason for it. But I could be wrong.

And another thing I'm very curious about with regard to your perspective:

You don't believe in karma. So, lets say somebody has homicidal tendencies, do you think they should let loose with said tendencies because their is no consequences to their action (provided they can avoid human laws)?

Or what if their homicidal tendencies are raging up to the Hitler level. Would you say they experience NO spiritual consequence for, say, exterminating approximately 6 million Jews? I mean, why not, right? There's no consequences after all.

Or why not steal? Again, no consequences. No reason not too, as long as I can get away with it.

It just feels to me, there must needs be some kind of balance to all that is. I can't bring myself to believe there are no consequences to any actions which deliberately and maliciously cause other conscious beings to suffer.

With us all being one, I feel that any pain you cause others you are really doing to yourself, and the universe reflects this truth back to us in some form or another, and it is this phenomena which constitutes "karma".

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by TheColonel

This is my basic belief. Karma isn't a bad thing, it's a syllabus. It's dissonance seeking resolution.

That's a nice and poetic way of saying it.

[nicbrahms]

My spirit guide is on a rampage today and I have to reiterate again there is no such thing as Karma unless you decide there is.

Look at the bigger picture, we are all extensions of God consciousness here to enjoy this experience. Nothing is off limits to us. We can do anything we want and your beliefs are what count if you decide you will suffer karmic consequences then you will. But someone who decides they won't will not and they will do what they want, however if their actions and thoughts don't lead them to feeling good and abundance they will not become 5th dimension when the time comes.

KARMA IS A MAN MADE THING AND WE IMPLEMENTED IT OURSELVES WITH OUR 3D THINKING.

RISE ABOVE THIS THINKING AND SEE THAT ALL EVENTS ARE NEUTRAL.

Nic Brahms

[rei]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

I see karma as simply our spiritual itinerary of chosen lessons for a given incarnation. Those lessons being determined by the "imbalances" in a given beings soul energy. These would be imbalances restricting that souls' ability to tap into "intelligent infinity".

first, themaster, thanks for starting the thread as it has brought the discussion to interesting places.

my understanding is that karma exists, it is a neutral force that is interwoven into consciousness for the purpose of maintaining balance or bringing us closer to balance - us, in the sense of an entire string of individuated incarnations. it is not meant to be good or bad, it is just providing balance based on actions and based on what our essence has decided to learn.

we can experience lessons as a result of karma without automatically attaching a good/bad label. we can be inviting this balancing force without viewing it as punishment.

whether it is limiting or punishing, whether it is good/bad, that depends on belief. but my understanding is that it does exist and works as a force in our experience whether we believe it does or not.

@Anagogy: i've been confused by themaster's use of ego before as well. i finally came to see it as using the word "ego" for concepts/actions/perspectives that might involve analytical thinking. perhaps your understanding is closer?

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by nicbrahms

My spirit guide is on a rampage today and I have to reiterate again there is no such thing as Karma unless you decide there is.

Look at the bigger picture, we are all extensions of God consciousness here to enjoy this experience. Nothing is off limits to us. We can do anything we want and your beliefs are what count if you decide you will suffer karmic consequences then you will. But someone who decides they won't will not and they will do what they want, however if their actions and thoughts don't lead them to feeling good and abundance they will not become 5th dimension when the time comes.

KARMA IS A MAN MADE THING AND WE IMPLEMENTED IT OURSELVES WITH OUR 3D THINKING.

RISE ABOVE THIS THINKING AND SEE THAT ALL EVENTS ARE NEUTRAL.

Nic Brahms

Hi Nic,

I'm gonna repeat a part from my other post because you also don't believe in karma -- I'm genuinely curious as to what your answer is:

Lets say somebody has homicidal tendencies, do you think they should let loose with said tendencies because their is no consequences to their action (provided they can avoid human laws)?

Or what if their homicidal tendencies are raging up to the Hitler level. Would you say they experience NO spiritual consequence for, say, exterminating approximately 6 million Jews? I mean, why not, right? There's no consequences after all.

Or why not steal? Again, no consequences. No reason not too, as long as I can get away with it.

What are your thoughts on these questions?

[gigij]

I don't understand how anyone can believe in the LOA and not Karma. Aren't they one and the same really? Like attracts like - what you project you get back. Seems simple to me.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by themaster

Opting out of karma is just like forgiving yourself.. really..

Not really. I see "opting out of karma" (if such a thing was even possible) as giving up all your power to create.

[Captain Drywall]

In these forums i have read people misusing the term karma and suggested they look it up. You did, very good. Keep up the study, i found your link very interesting. This word karma, has to be one of the most difficult words to understand by us westerners. I am still working on it.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Captain Drywall

Keep up the study, i found your link very interesting.

Unfortunately, I found the link to be not very accurate. I mean, based on my own understanding, of course.

This word karma, has to be one of the most difficult words to understand by us westerners. I am still working on it.

I'm not a westerner. Perhaps that's why I don't have difficulty with the word.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

You use the word "ego" alot. To be frank with you, it perplexes me somewhat. What exactly do you mean when you say "ego" this "ego" that? I mean, I know MY definition, but what exactly is it about the idea of karma that makes it "ego", and everything YOU say not ego? I'm just curious. It appears, from your usage of it, that you apply the label to anything that smacks of any kind of limitation whatsoever.

Wow, anagogy.. a real conversation

Well, isn't the "ego" the limitation of our reality.. I believe it is.. it's not bad it's just the limitation.. this existence might not be possible without it

Yah, I know you get confused with me talking about parts of self.. try and remember having studied lots of new age texts.. turns out there's thousands of parts too us.. at least some spiritual teachers refer to advanced designs we don't see.. subconscious, unconscious and the list goes on and on

Recently I was introduced to a new concept.. I was unaware of it's called the 4 aspects/selves (well, according to my teacher there's actually 10 but he's only talked about 4)

According to my teacher here's the synopsis

Emotional Self - that thing that gets you emotional
Spiritual Self - that thing that is your intuition, your gut knowing, heart feeling
Mental Self - aka.. "ego"
Physical Self - Kind of the neaderthal you..

Limitation is all around us.. it is us.. indeed I do talk about limitation a lot.. even though I like it and don't

Really it's clear to say.. and I've said it before.. I wish to change the rules..

So you were asking...

but what exactly is it about the idea of karma that makes it "ego", and everything YOU say not ego?

I can't tell you 100% I'm talking from Spiritual self.. but that seems more than likely.. you see I tell you I'm accessing my spiritual side and you say.. how do you know?? I don't know for sure.. I just feel that many times in these writings I have its spiritual.. it's that or my ego/mental has been upgraded vastly.. we do take our ego's with us in 5d you see.. but it is vastly changed.. and I have been saying lately.. I've been working on upgrading mine

It doesn't really matter what the difference is.. does it?

When I talk about karma being "ego".. I am saying that the analysis of your life through filtered eyes of looking for "karma" get's you just that.. I have always said in this thread.. the filter is optional.. and I believe the filter to be limiting.. this doesn't mean to be clear.. that ALG using a definition hasn't altered it to be off.. I just want people to know the "free'er" path, the path with more love.. (hello, emotional self )

Bare in mind when I say analysis.. I say that's "ego"

If all of us spent 199% more time listening to our hearts.. our spiritual self's.. we wouldn't be in these negative mess's/limitations that we our in.. I ain't saying there bad.. I'm always just saying there limiting.. and I offer the perspective of a different way to be..

It is my understanding that much of the limitation we experience comes through "ego" in the first place.. the entire reality bends around it.. want to fly??

Your ego says "can't not possible here.. gravity and such"

Want to bend space/time?

Your ego says "what that's impossible.. this is illogical"

Want to buy a house?

Your ego says "We need money, a girl, housemates a 401k with divested interest earning of 6%"

Want to manifest?

Your ego says "I'm in your way or sure.. through these conditions"

So, when I talk about the spiritual self.. I'm talking about that little part of you that knows the truth.. that all things are possible.. and that if you learn it.. the ego is sometimes the limitation

Originally Posted by Anagogy

Because frankly, as I understand the word, it seems far more egotistical to assume there are NO limitations."

Is it? It could be my friend.. but then again that could be a paradox.. (I haven't quite gotten the idea of paradox figured out for 4d yet)

If I remember the rules.. what was true one second ago is now true no longer..

I say the spiritual self always tells you the truth and that secret low down message.. says "anything is possible"

This is why to this day.. I believe "einstein" and the likes have just designed limitations that we have to overcome.. and that's the interesting thing about it.. at least many people/scientists have spent much of their time.. trying to prove his theory wrong or get around it.. it sounds so limiting to say we can travel to a star in 13 years or some such

[themaster]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

You seem to think limitations are inherently bad. I disagree. Limitations are necessary in order to empower creativity. Ever played a video-game where the first thing you did was type in the cheat codes? Yeah it might be fun for half an hour, but then the luster wears off. It ruins it for me, personally. It's MUCH funner and more interesting when you play the game as it was designed to be. Challenge is where it's at. When there are no limitations, there is no challenge. And no challenge makes Jack a dull boy IMO.

Indeed I have.. and I agree.. but you might remember this is a ego statement.. and a ego limitation

Just cause typing in the cheat codes here feels not good (and it can surely feel good.. every situation can be seen positively)

Doesn't mean it can't be done feeling good..

Honestly.. if you were sitting in a holodeck right now.. and before you.. you saw expressions of you in various vibrations and reflections and you were just pursuing them and saying..

Hmm.. do I want to go to the moon? or

Take a stroll on a alien shore?

Maybe.. I'd like to enact this book?

Or just lead a space armada to battle?

Maybe.. you'd like to manifest the perfect video game that has physical interactions tools for you right there.. right now?

I think from your limited perspective You'd enjoy seeing the very experiences you could instantly engage in.. maybe.. maybe not..

Let's get back to what you're saying..

Did you ever think that the game were in.. Was designed to well up or create a list of things we would like to experience later.. did you ever think all this contrast can be used to design a newer, better game for ourselves?

You may say we can't change the rules.. cause in the rules/limitations lies the challenge we came to compete.. I say we gave ourselves a out and we can go from this game to a completely new one.. all through our simple say so

It is my understanding anagogy.. that we are a graduating class of this challenge.. there will be nothing more soon.. well, now really but in our lifetimes if I understand correctly.. we are graduating this game and creating new ones.. I don't see how the challenge really is more then moving so fast from the dark/limitation to the light/unlimited..

Originally Posted by Anagogy

I can't help but look around and notice that the creator (or higher self - however you prefer look at that) placed challenges all about our reality. I think, just maybe, perhaps, there was a reason for it. But I could be wrong.

Of course there was a reason.. if everything is by design.. how could there not be?

But that doesn't preclude our "free will" and our right to choose.. we are the choosers.. this makes me think of something bashar has stated so I'll throw it in..

How You’re Designed To Operate:
•The higher self conceives.
•The physical brain receives.
•The personality/mind perceives.

So you can say.. hey, the master or david.. that's my name

How can you go after this holodeck thing?

And I say.. how else was I able to come up with it.. if it wasn't sent to me via the oversoul.. the real thinker in our lives..

Originally Posted by Anagogy

And another thing I'm very curious about with regard to your perspective:

You don't believe in karma. So, let's say somebody has homicidal tendencies, do you think they should let loose with said tendencies because there is no consequences to their action (provided they can avoid human laws)?

Ahh, yes.. or how about hell, yes!

If that is what you wish to do, go and do it.. see now your entering into human judgment.. and here your rationalizing/ego'ing that revenge/karma is the system to keep that in place.. (at least that's what it sounds like)

I'm going to tell you straight to your face

That you can kill a billion people (been there, done that) and you can still absolve the karmic consequence.. it's that easy.. we are the designers of the game and the limitation systems in place.. we bend our rules all the time..

Originally Posted by Anagogy

Or what if their homicidal tendencies are raging up to the Hitler level. Would you say they experience NO spiritual consequence for, say, exterminating approximately 6 million Jews? I mean, why not, right? There's no consequences after all.

Hitler took on some consequences is what I heard.. I believe bashar once said.. he decided to manifest up to 5-50 lives of children that wouldn't even make it to age 20.. they would be all about suffering..

How can you have judgment for hitler, anagogy? (cause that's what it reads like.. unless you're just saying this observationally)

Hitler is you! You are hitler! there is no difference.. I am hitler! You are hitler! We are the same being.. You cannot wash your hands of his experience or creation and he was a great creator (re-enacting something we'd already done).. You cannot wash your hands of the idea were all the same being..

And you can't wash your hands of your judgment if you have some.. it is automatically reflected back to you.. the judgment you send out.. by law of attraction comes right back.. (and here again I assume your judging)

I understand this reality is made of judgers.. and that's okay with me.. I ain't saying "I hate you" or you're bad.. (cause you're not.. I love you!.. There's that emotional self again ) but what I'm saying is.. there's no wrong way to be, there never was!

Originally Posted by Anagogy

Or why not steal? Again, no consequences. No reason not too, as long as I can get away with it.

Been there, done that many times

The only thing you may not be able to get away with here.. is being judged.. and then being put up in society as a example of a "bad" way to be..

Many people in 3d see a mass murderer or whatever.. and they say "bad", "evil" person.. they took that person "away from us and we'll never get them back" which is a laughable assumption at best from a higher perspective.. but we're talking about a 3d perspective here

And usually if you watch our movies etc.. You'll note that some other person still loves them.. meaning.. their mom does or their wife does or their sister does..

And we judge them and go.. "how could you love a criminal?"

But the truth is that love is a truth about who we really are.. and how we stop listening to 3d noise/limitations and be who we really are..

Originally Posted by Anagogy

It just feels to me, there must needs be some kind of balance to all that is. I can't bring myself to believe there are no consequences to any actions which deliberately and maliciously cause other conscious beings to suffer.

Suffering is choice.. it was never not a choice.. see us here in this reality?? 1/billionth to the power of our original vibration?? technically from that perspective.. were suffering..

If you feel you want and deserve karma then opt-in.. but don't think your "fair" system (which is another way of saying human judgment) actually works from a higher perspective.. it was and always will be entirely optional to each of us creator gods to a return to the loading screen

(it's my understanding before 4d was here.. karma may have not been optional.. aka 1800's and before it was at that time a rule for this limitation experience)

I mean let me say it again.. karma is massively screwed up ego idea.. that looks nothing like what we see it.. from a higher perspective.. and you just described to a tea.. one of the many ego perspectives of karma (whether on purpose or just to get me to answer.. I can't say )

Originally Posted by Anagogy

With us all being one, I feel that any pain you cause others you are really doing to yourself, and the universe reflects this truth back to us in some form or another, and it is this phenomena which constitutes "karma".

I'm telling you.. you can kill with a get out of free "karma" card.. if that makes it unfair to you.. well too bad.. that is just a limitation..

Death is easily fixable.. so easy you apparently just don't know how..

I mean when you just start judging death.. where does it stop?

What's the difference between killing a chicken, a human, a tree and a insect?

Guess what..?

There is no difference.. only the "ego"/mental self creates it.. we are the same being.. and every day your here.. you murder.. we all do.. no big deal.. if you just don't make it one

[nicbrahms]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

Hi Nic,

I'm gonna repeat a part from my other post because you also don't believe in karma -- I'm genuinely curious as to what your answer is:

Lets say somebody has homicidal tendencies, do you think they should let loose with said tendencies because their is no consequences to their action (provided they can avoid human laws)?

Or what if their homicidal tendencies are raging up to the Hitler level. Would you say they experience NO spiritual consequence for, say, exterminating approximately 6 million Jews? I mean, why not, right? There's no consequences after all.

Or why not steal? Again, no consequences. No reason not too, as long as I can get away with it.

What are your thoughts on these questions?

We are loved unconditionally by source that no matter what we do we will not suffer. It is state of mind that effects everything. If you commit an act and fear consequences then course they will come, however if you don't then you won't. There is no rule about karma, just LOA in the myriad ways it works.

We are not a sum total of our physical body, we are more the greater, broader part of us (higher self). Your higher self is the eternal being that has always been and will always be.

Any act is neutral and will not continue past this physical experience. Karma only exists if you believe in it, and it is just LOA anyway.

Flesh is immaterial and we are ascended beings, Jesus was trying to tell us this when he sacrificed his flesh on the cross to show us we need to shed our earthly garments to ascend. He then rose and adorned his heavenly garments and ascended. He did not die for our sins as the catholic church would have us believe (never made any sense anyway).

What I am trying to say that once you realise that this physical experience is exactly that, just a physical experience you realise that the eternal part of you is always ok.

Abe Hicks, Bashar, enligtened being, Budha, Masters all say it.

Also to love unconditionally is another thing, very common theme for enlightened beings. Because they see that we are more than this physical form and encourage each of us to see beyond that.

I think if someone steals and it is in their vibration then they will have someone steal from them. However, a rapist jailed here in the UK went on to win £7m in the lottery, aside from the inconvenience of spending a few years in jail he is living it up. Where is the so called Karma?

Also if we were not supposed to be able to do everything and anything we want, why doesn't our higher self stop us. We all have one, because the higher self acts in your highest good and if being a serial killer gets you off then your higher self wants you to be happy.

There is no consequences of this physical life in the spiritual, I wouldn't have come here if there were.

I am an eternal being and know that I existed eternally before this earth existence and know I will continue to exist eternally after it.

I can imagine the conversation in 5th dimension.

'I was a serial killer once, I killed you and you and you.'

'I know, pretty inventive how you did me.'

'Yeh I know, wasn't it. I got the electric chair in the end.'

'How was that?'

'lol, electric.'

So if there is no lasting damage to your entire, real, higher, broader and complete self, why do you all insist on saying there is a possibility of hurting your eternal self?

If I knew I would take the consequences and repercussions of what I had done here on Earth into my eternal life, I would never have come here. It is egotistical to think you can ever harm your eternal self with anything you do.

This physical existence will be over in a blink of an eye and when we all meet up we will talk about all this.


Bashar said it correctly when he said.

You are loved so unconditionally by Creation that you can even choose to believe that you are not loved.

Thats what you are all doing when you convince yourself of Karma and spiritual consequence, convincing yourself that you are not loved unconditionally.

I took a vow to love unconditionally, and the minute I did I felt love all around me and I accept completely I am loved unconditionally.

Probably also why I find it easier to beleive what I do. Also my spirit guide is a good source of info.

You all should get in touch with yours, it will help to understand where I am coming from.

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by themaster

I'm going to tell you straight to your face

That you can kill a billion people (been there, done that) and you can still absolve the karmic consequence.. it's that easy.. we are the designers of the game and the limitation systems in place.. we bend our rules all the time..

Wow.

I'm gonna go kill some people I don't like now then. Peace.

But seriously, I don't agree with you in the slightest here. I would rather not exist in a world where there are no guiding spiritually moral principles.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think their are consequences to our actions -- you don't. Nothing will change that.

Guess we'll have to catch up after death and/or this shift to see who was right.

Originally Posted by themaster

How can you have judgment for hitler, anagogy? (cause that's what it reads like.. unless you're just saying this observationally)

Hitler is you! You are hitler! there is no difference.. I am hitler! You are hitler! We are the same being.. You cannot wash your hands of his experience or creation and he was a great creator (re-enacting something we'd already done).. You cannot wash your hands of the idea were all the same being..

I'm sorry, but this is such an abstraction at our level of existence. I mean, I would agree with you if we were consciously experiencing the oneness. But most people aren't. Did you consciously feel and currently remember the pain inflicted on the 6 million Jews + during the holocaust?

I didn't think so. And neither did I. But the Jews certainly did, I'll wager. But the real question is, did Hitler experience it? I mean we're all one after all. If we're everything, shouldn't we experience everything?

You can't deal Hitler's blame to everyone unless you also deal everything else that went along with it (that is, the suffering of the Jews). Oneness isn't a pick and choose game. You either either are everything, or your not. The way you talk about it, it sounds like a pick and choose adventure. I don't agree with that.

There is still a consequence to the action of killing. Universal culpability can only be if we are also universally experiencing IMO. We did not universally experience the suffering of the holocaust, nor did we universally experience being Hitler, therefore my ego identity had nothing to do with the situation. Perhaps at a higher abstract god level, but that is not conscious in me, so I can't really identify with that and say that's "me". At least not yet.

Originally Posted by themaster

And you can't wash your hands of your judgment if you have some.. it is automatically reflected back to you.. the judgment you send out.. by law of attraction comes right back.. (and here again I assume your judging)

I understand this reality is made of judgers.. and that's okay with me.. I ain't saying "I hate you" or you're bad.. (cause you're not.. I love you!.. There's that emotional self again ) but what I'm saying is.. there's no wrong way to be, there never was!]

That's not even the issue. This isn't about judgment. I'm sorry you misinterpreted it that way. Karma is not about judgment and never was. It simply says what you send out, you get back. No judgment need be applied to that. It's about oneness. Since we're one, what we do to others we do to our-self. This means we experience whatever we do to others, whether it be positive or negative. It doesn't matter, again, no judgment need be applied here.

But because people are not consciously one with all that is, it gets reflected down to the ego personality. Even though the ego is a seemingly separated psychic structure, it is still a microcosmic reflection of the one. So in order to experience the actions it sent out, the actions have to return to that ego. And they do. And its called karma.

Originally Posted by themaster

Suffering is choice.. it was never not a choice.. see us here in this reality?? 1/billionth to the power of our original vibration?? technically from that perspective.. were suffering..

Again, I would say this is a new age metaphysical abstraction that has little to do with practical experience.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that suffering is NOT a choice. But in a way, it is. From my perspective, we all have power, but if somebody doesn't realize they have the power to escape a situation, they don't. They aren't consciously choosing to suffer. They are suffering because they don't know any better. The suffering was the result of ignorance.

But I can't say in all good conscience, they CHOSE their suffering, deliberately. Ask anyone, and they will emphatically tell you they didn't. So if they "chose" it, it was out of ignorance, or default, not a true "choice".

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by nicbrahms

I think if someone steals and it is in their vibration then they will have someone steal from them. However, a rapist jailed here in the UK went on to win £7m in the lottery, aside from the inconvenience of spending a few years in jail he is living it up. Where is the so called Karma?

Karma doesn't normally show up in your current life, but it can. A karmic lesson such as the one you implied above, would take place in the rapist's next life, where he would likely experience something similar -- not out of punishment, but so they get the opportunity of experiencing the fruits of their actions.

Originally Posted by nicbrahms

Also if we were not supposed to be able to do everything and anything we want, why doesn't our higher self stop us. We all have one, because the higher self acts in your highest good and if being a serial killer gets you off then your higher self wants you to be happy.

The higher self doesn't manipulate its lower self. It merely guides and informs. We have total choice in what we do, but that doesn't mean there aren't consequences.

Originally Posted by nicbrahms

There is no consequences of this physical life in the spiritual, I wouldn't have come here if there were.

Do you remember before this life? Or this just a belief of yours?

Originally Posted by nicbrahms

So if there is no lasting damage to your entire, real, higher, broader and complete self, why do you all insist on saying there is a possibility of hurting your eternal self?

I never said there was damage to your eternal self.

Negative karma is not damage, it is an energetic imbalance which necessitates certain lessons about the ultimate reality. Karma is the force that naturally takes you back to god or oneness, by presenting those consciousness lessons which raise you to that more broad state of existence.

Originally Posted by nicbrahms

I took a vow to love unconditionally, and the minute I did I felt love all around me and I accept completely I am loved unconditionally.

Probably also why I find it easier to beleive what I do. Also my spirit guide is a good source of info.

You all should get in touch with yours, it will help to understand where I am coming from.

Just out of curiosity, how do your guides communicate with you? In what form to they communicate with you and how do you know it is communication from your guides?

[nicbrahms]

I hear my guide in my head I ask questions and get replies.


Okay everyone watch this, Bashar explains it better than me.

YouTube - Bashar-So What?


Toodles, going to get tarted up for a night out.



Love you all sweet forum wallahs.

Nic Brahms

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

That's not even the issue. This isn't about judgment. I'm sorry you misinterpreted it that way. Karma is not about judgment and never was.

That is the point which I tried to explain to themaster many times, but he didn't get it.

Karma is about as judgmental as gravity - that is to say, not at all.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by themaster

It is my understanding that much of the limitation we experience comes through "ego" in the first place.. the entire reality bends around it.. want to fly??

Your ego says "can't not possible here.. gravity and such"

Want to bend space/time?

Your ego says "what that's impossible.. this is illogical"

Want to buy a house?

Your ego says "We need money, a girl, housemates a 401k with divested interest earning of 6%"

Want to manifest?

Your ego says "I'm in your way or sure.. through these conditions"

That is a very odd way to define ego .... especially because MY ego would not necessarily give such answers.

[nicbrahms]

Hi

didn't end up going out last night and I know I manifested it that way. Sometimes the thought in the morning isn't the feeling in the evening, ohhh nevermind.

Anyway I digress.

Okay I learned to get in touch with my spirit guides by silencing my mind and listening. It took a while to trust the info but then I did as it was always right. Good example is this; on the ormus manifesting forum someone asked me if I could help them find their lost engagement ring. I asked my spirit guide where this person's ring was and I got an image of wooden draws.

I posted a reply telling this girl in the states that it was in or under some wooden draws. I then received a reply saying that within 2 mins of reading my reply she ran to the first wooden draw in her house, ( of which there were 30) in which she had looked previously and opened it and her ring was sparkling up at her.

We could go into a million reasons for what and how this happens but it came down to knowledge provided by my spirit guide.

You can all hear your guide too, just quiet your mind and ask questions, the first response is the answer. It does not come from you, it is independent of your conscious thinking. I hear my guide in my head and sometimes my guide will send me external signs too.

Okay, the second thing I wanted to say was that many people seem to think that we need to learn lessons from this experience. Why? Why? Why? We are perfect eternal beings and trust me there is no lessons to be learnt here, why would we need to learn lessons here in a lower dimension to where we are actually from where we create instantly.

Sorry but it is complete nonsense to say that you can do something bad in one life and carry it over to another life, how ridiculous this sounds to me. Even if karma were real, why on earth would a new you have to pay the price of the old you? That is completely unjust and dare I say it again ridiculous (I guess I dare).

Finally, my friend I have a vague recollection previously being asked if I wanted to come here to 3d life and I jumped at the chance. I remember going through some sort of gate that made me forget everything. Unfortunately thats as far as I can recall.

Finally again, if ever there is a continuation from one life to another it is the physical form that carries it over, the conscious part of you. The eternal you doesn't give a hoot about any of that, other than to make your experience as perfect and varied as possible. Also LOA creates whatever you think, if you think you will take crap from this experience into your next experience then of course you will. LOA transcends life experiences, after all it is your superconscious, higher self that activates it in your reality and that is a continous, unchangeable part of you. (Millions of things I could go into here).

There are so many variables here, too numerous to go into, my mind boggles.

I can tell you this though, I have been working on channeling of late, and after I wrote my last thread I realised a lot of things I wrote were coming from me but not of me until after I read them.

I have been feeling a lot of pressure on my mind lately and I am pretty sure the downloads of information from other entities is taking place in dribs and drabs and they seem to spill forth when making a point.

I am working on becoming a channeller like Bashar as the entities that channel through him are amazing.

Anyway I hope you all checked out the link I provided.

Toodles for now you lovely people.


Nic Brahms

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by nicbrahms

Sorry but it is complete nonsense to say that you can do something bad in one life and carry it over to another life, how ridiculous this sounds to me.

That's a common misunderstanding of karma.

Somehow people think that karma has a lot to do with reincarnation. Actually it is the other way around - reincarnation has a lot to do with karma. Karma has a little to do with reincarnation, and a lot to do with everything else.

Karma is just something that is happening all the time. It's what you create with your thoughts - every day, every hour, every minute. Then one fine day, you "die". Karma goes on operating, that is all, the same as it had been operating all the days when you were "alive".

As for "good" and "bad" karma, well those are just adjectives. You can also think humorous thoughts, and thereby create a funny reality. You can think blue feathers, and thereby manifest blue feathers. You can think good, bad, amoral, sexy, colourful, sad, angry, poetic, artistic, mechanical, chaotic. organised, innovative, boring thoughts, and thereby create realities which are good, bad, amoral, sexy, colourful, sad, angry, poetic, artistic, mechanical, chaotic. organised, innovative or boring. That's karma.

[Wax Frog]

karma and IM are, in part, interchangeable terms then?

[rei]

Nic,

congrats on your work to be a channeler. that's exciting! are you working on full body (trance) channeling or conscious channeling? at any rate, this is something we have in common... Ra, Thoth, and others on transition to higher vibrational Earth reality | Lightworkers.org, Archangel Raphael, Ra and other divine beings send a call for service on Planet Earth | Lightworkers.org.

i hope the work comes through with great clarity, and i hope you may become better than i am at instantly separating what is truly guide-speak from what is an idea that starts within my own mind. (that's something i can do, but when the message comes through in words and not the feeling-language i'm naturally better with, it's often more difficult.)

[nicbrahms]

Originally Posted by rei

Nic,

congrats on your work to be a channeler. that's exciting! are you working on full body (trance) channeling or conscious channeling? at any rate, this is something we have in common... Ra, Thoth, and others on transition to higher vibrational Earth reality | Lightworkers.org, Archangel Raphael, Ra and other divine beings send a call for service on Planet Earth | Lightworkers.org.

i hope the work comes through with great clarity, and i hope you may become better than i am at instantly separating what is truly guide-speak from what is an idea that starts within my own mind. (that's something i can do, but when the message comes through in words and not the feeling-language i'm naturally better with, it's often more difficult.)

Thank you my dear, I am working on conscious channelling.


Love and light

Nic

[wolfgang]

after reading all that I'm feeling like saying there is no escape from being what is here and right now. it is given what is. but when that is totally accepted, surrendered to, absolutely without judgment or need to say it's limiting and state that karma is my enemy - then you are free and unlimited and totally karma free (or not concerned with what karma is doing to cause you to be stressed or suffering).

acceptance and surrender is to what is - is what is liberating.

it is counterintuitive in a way but it's the only way to set yourself free. and be unhindered by karma. if you fight karma and say you can opt out of it - then you are more bound by it, I'd say. It seems kind of egotistical, to me, to say you can opt out of karma by saying all this is something we can change because you are a powerful individual. that is not my experience so far. everything that has awed me or felt powerful or opened up my life is beyond me and not me and not personal and transcends the need to have a self that claims the experience. letting go of self also unlocks the karma to the self, in a way. liberation is when the self isn't there to be subject to what is. accepting what is liberates the self. not accepting (which, to me seems like this anti karma idea) is an ego strong hold, ironically.

far be all this from my experience, just saying what my perspective is. too often it seems there's a feeling of escaping what is which never liberates. wanting to escape is what creates the feeling of not being liberated and stuck in karma's muck.

and yeah - killing is not harmonious. be a good steward of "life" as best as you feel. just because there's an idea that says this is an illusion and there aren't really people that are "alive" is no license to be stupid and reckless about life process.

Buddha and Jesus both were very into peace, yeah? awakened ones are also into not harming what is going on and look for peaceful ways as much as possible. it's not a judgment - it's a harmony or ease or natural way of being.

how can you say it doesn't matter if you are a destructive force in this plane and also say you have gained some insight into spiritual matters - doesn't compute to me that way at all.... just saying. sure transcendence can show one that duality doesn't exist - and that there is no good or bad way to go about life - but it seems transcending duality brings harmony not disharmony. imo.