Does the Law of Attraction really work?

[Shokoya]

I know it does...how about you?

[MacFly]

people who act like they're so confident about LoA always make me smile. thoughts and visualization have no power in themselves.

I do have experiences with LoA where it really seemed to work, but it's certanly not an ultimate/complete law.

If you'd be really sure about LoA, you wouldn't be on a forum trying to convince everybody, you'd be out enjoying life.

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by MacFly

people who act like they're so confident about LoA always make me smile. thoughts and visualization have no power in themselves.

I do have experiences with LoA where it really seemed to work, but it's certanly not an ultimate/complete law.

If you'd be really sure about LoA, you wouldn't be on a forum trying to convince everybody, you'd be out enjoying life.

My word you're a brave man saying that in here- stand by for the blasting!!!

[MacFly]

the more angry responses I get, the more we'll know I'm right

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by MacFly

the more angry responses I get, the more we'll know I'm right

Of course- but the LOA followers won't see it that way! I'm sitting on the fence in this never ending debate. It's the only place to sit- you can't enter into meaningful discussions with the LOA crowd as to whether it really works since the final conclusion they offer is that "You just have to try it and believe it". Normally takes around 5 hours to end up at that point though!

[MacFly]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

Of course- but the LOA followers won't see it that way! I'm sitting on the fence in this never ending debate. It's the only place to sit- you can't enter into meaningful discussions with the LOA crowd as to whether it really works since the final conclusion they offer is that "You just have to try it and believe it". Normally takes around 5 hours to end up at that point though!

but they're constantly using joker cards. they explain a ficitonal law with itself. it's a logical failure.

they always say that I'm against LoA or something, but I'm simply open to my experiences. When something fails, I see it as a fail, but also a chance to advance. But I won't say it worked when it failed.

when you touch something that people see as a part of themselves, they act like animals. they'll say even the dumbest things in the world just to defend a part of themselves. they made LoA a part of their mindmade selves.

[Acting Like Godot]

You haven't solved your hair loss problem yet, MacFly?

You shouldn't allow it to make you so bitter - WHETHER the LOA is true or not. It is foolish to be so angry about a hair problem. You allow your unhappy thoughts about your own hair to affect your own life.

[MacFly]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

You haven't solved your hair loss problem yet, MacFly?

You shouldn't allow it to make you so bitter - WHETHER the LOA is true or not. It is foolish to be so angry about a hair problem. You allow your unhappy thoughts about your own hair to affect your own life.

[escapeplan]

What I don't get ALG is why you attract so many doubters into your world. I mean, you can't get them to change their views so why attract them in the first place?

You've spent hours on these forums but wouldn't a guy with your intelligence, articulation and LOA abilities be of greater use to the world doing anything other than debating with doubters? Just curious...

[MacFly]

I still can be convinced. ALG might think that I have a lot of pain and jealousy in me because I tried so hard for so long, and I'm kind of angry because of it.

but I'm still open. It's just I can't be convinced with joker cards.

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by MacFly

I still can be convinced. ALG might think that I have a lot of pain and jealousy in me because I tried so hard for so long, and I'm kind of angry because of it.

but I'm still open. It's just I can't be convinced with joker cards.

Yes you, like I can still be convinced but the bottom line is what the LOA's will say- you have to try it and believe in it.

You've already said you don't believe in their arguments- they have no alternatives to offer!

[gigij]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

Yes you, like I can still be convinced but the bottom line is what the LOA's will say- you have to try it and believe in it.

You've already said you don't believe in their arguments- they have no alternatives to offer!

Perhaps no one cares whether you believe it or not.

[MacFly]

Originally Posted by gigij

Perhaps no one cares whether you believe it or not.

anger alert

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by gigij

Perhaps no one cares whether you believe it or not.

Unhelpful and unnecessary. Nothing I stated was provactive. Maybe you could expand on the point of your post.

[gigij]

Originally Posted by MacFly

anger alert

Really? You see that as anger?

No - I just wonder why people keep coming on here and demanding that they be convinced of something they really don't seem to want to believe anyway.

Why not just forget it and move on?

[gigij]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

Unhelpful and unnecessary. Nothing I stated was provactive. Maybe you could expand on the point of your post.

Why do think it's my job to help you? Are you unable to help yourself?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

you have to try it and believe in it.

You still haven't understood this point, huh.

You don't have to believe in the LOA for it to work. You do need to hold the appropriate thoughts or beliefs, about your goals.

Take for example hypnosis, which is a form of LOA.

People don't have to believe in hypnosis, in order to be hypnotised. All they need is to BE hypnotised. The necessary messages are planted in their subconscious or unconscious mind, and then the desired effect will occur.

Simple example is this man, who feels no pain when undergoing major hand surgery in a UK hospital, without any painkillers.

Hypnotist 'put himself into trance for surgery' - Telegraph

Another example are these patients, whose broken bones heal faster, because they've been given hypnotic suggestions that the bones will heal faster.

Harvard Gazette: Hypnosis helps healing

Same for patients with intestinal bowel syndrome; eczema; phobias; addiction to smoking, alcohol; undergoing childbirth etc.

Patients don't necessarily have to believe in hypnosis, or even know what it is supposed to be about. As long as they place themselves under the conditions to be hypnotised, and are hypnotised, the necessary messages can be planted in the mind, and the desired change in reality begins to occur.

[gigij]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

You still haven't understood this point, huh.

You don't have to believe in the LOA for it to work. You do need to hold the appropriate thoughts or beliefs, about your goals.

Take for example hypnosis, which is a form of LOA.

People don't have to believe in hypnosis, in order to be hypnotised. All they need is to BE hypnotised. The necessary messages are planted in their subconscious or unconscious mind, and then the desired effect will occur.

Simple example is this man, who feels no pain when undergoing major hand surgery in a UK hospital, without any painkillers.

Hypnotist 'put himself into trance for surgery' - Telegraph

Another example are these patients, whose broken bones heal faster, because they've been given hypnotic suggestions that the bones will heal faster.

Harvard Gazette: Hypnosis helps healing

Same for patients with intestinal bowel syndrome; eczema; phobias; addiction to smoking, alcohol; undergoing childbirth etc.

Patients don't necessarily have to believe in hypnosis, or even know what it is supposed to be about. As long as they place themselves under the conditions to be hypnotised, and are hypnotised, the necessary messages can be planted in the mind, and the desired change in reality begins to occur.

Why do you bother ALG? Don't you ever get tired of this? You must have infinite patience ....

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by gigij

Really? You see that as anger?

No - I just wonder why people keep coming on here and demanding that they be convinced of something they really don't seem to want to believe anyway.

Why not just forget it and move on?

Gigij,

It is very much the right of people on this forum to question beliefs in the same way Steve questions religion and various other beliefs. It's a PD forum and as I've said numerous times, if the LOA is true it is the most significant thing we can all try and master.

However PD should focus on what's working well for a majority of people. IT might, just might be the case that LOA followers are deluded, or it may be they are right. Either ways it's in the interests of PD to assess, analyse and not be closed minded just because some peope feel they shouldn't have to justify their ideas.

[escapeplan]

ALG,

I understand the point perfectly- but your whole argument is based on the unproven fact that LOA is real and always operating

[gigij]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

Unhelpful and unnecessary. Nothing I stated was provactive. Maybe you could expand on the point of your post.

My point is that the information available is extensive - on this forum and elsewhere. You ask questions and get answers but it is never enough. You need to be CONVINCED. But how can anyone convince you by posting on a forum? It's impossible - and therefore LOA is bunk.
Your not the first.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

Unhelpful and unnecessary. Nothing I stated was provactive. Maybe you could expand on the point of your post.

See, it's no different from any other part of the forum. Say "Personal Effectiveness" or "Health & Fitness".

You go there and you ask, "How do I manage my time effectively?" or "How do I lose weight?".

People will give you some tips and advice, answer your questions, engage in some discussion with you etc.

But ultimately, whether you believe them or don't believe them, or are willing to try their suggestions or not, it's not their problem.

Even if you do learn to manage your time better or even if you do succeed in losing weight, they don't stand to gain anything directly for themselves.

So they really don't care that much about whether you believe their views or not. It's unlikely that they would find anything to be angry about.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

ALG,

I understand the point perfectly- but your whole argument is based on the unproven fact that LOA is real and always operating

Well then, don't believe it.

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by gigij

My point is that the information available is extensive - on this forum and elsewhere. You ask questions and get answers but it is never enough. You need to be CONVINCED. But how can anyone convince you by posting on a forum? It's impossible - and therefore LOA is bunk.
Your not the first.

If you'd read my responses to macfly, you'd see that was exactly what I was saying.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

ALG,

I understand the point perfectly- but your whole argument is based on the unproven fact that LOA is real and always operating

Unproven for whom? I proved it for myself.

What convinced me to try it was the realization that the action-reaction view of the world (as opposed to the intention-manifestation one) was actually the dogmatic one.

The hypothesis is that your beliefs affect your environment. Experiment: adopt successively action-reaction and intention-manifestation beliefs. If you see the exact same result in both cases, you have proven that the world obeys to an action reaction type of law. If you see differences that cannot be explained by accidents or a confirmation bias, you have proven that the world obeys to LOA.

The problem is that many people try to prove or disprove it without considering the hypothesis outside their comfort zone... stepping out of the Action Reaction belief for the time of the experiment. It makes me think of the scientists a few centuries ago who tried to explain dinosaur fossils without accepting to step outside of a litteral biblical view of the world...

[MacFly]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

You don't have to believe in the LOA for it to work. You do need to hold the appropriate thoughts or beliefs, about your goals.

wow. I haven't heard it explained in that way thank you.

[escapeplan]

[QUOTE=aelle;470253] If you see differences that cannot be explained by accidents or a confirmation bias, you have proven that the world obeys to LOA.QUOTE]

Can you give an example of a situation you've experienced that fulfils this requirement?

[aelle]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

Can you give an example of a situation you've experienced that fulfils this requirement?

For 6 months I held the intention that I could easily make it to work on time. My flatmate, who worked in the same building as me, was convinced she would always be late. She left daily an hour before me while I left just 15 min before work started. We were living in a South East Asian capital where traffic is reknown for being awful. We both took taxis. She almost systematically arrived later than me to work, and I was never late.

The probability of this being all random chance is low enough for this to be proof, IMO.

This was my starting point. I have had many confirmations after this one, both in my experience and those of friends, who sometimes used it voluntarily, sometimes not. I have a friend who believes that for some reason her life in Japan is golden and indeed, since she moved there, she has received only fantastic and extremely unlikely opportunities. She did not know about LOA.

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by aelle

For 6 months I held the intention that I could easily make it to work on time. My flatmate, who worked in the same building as me, was convinced she would always be late. She left daily an hour before me while I left just 15 min before work started. We were living in a South East Asian capital where traffic is reknown for being awful. We both took taxis. She almost systematically arrived later than me to work, and I was never late.

The probability of this being all random chance is low enough for this to be proof, IMO.

I see. Thank you.

[Shokoya]

Originally Posted by MacFly

people who act like they're so confident about LoA always make me smile.

Glad to hear that. You might want to get rid of 'act' and replace the statement with 'are confident'.

Originally Posted by MacFly

you wouldn't be on a forum trying to convince everybody,.

Read the post again - you will see it's a statement of personal truth followed by an open ended question. No attempt to 'convince' anyone going on there buddy. That's just your perception - which judging by your other posts - seems to be based on past experience of similar questions.