if the belief that you can change your body using though alone worked....

[993125002]

how could you explain the lack of physical change in a person with multiple personality disorder? also, someone sitting in a hospital that's on morphine would believe that their bodies are changing in unusual ways, but their beliefs don't change their physical bodies at all.

[993125002]

and for those that believe in teh power of the law of attraction or prayer, check this Self-fulfilling prophecy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by 993125002

and for those that believe in teh power of the law of attraction or prayer, check this Self-fulfilling prophecy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For me it doesn't really matter if it is LOA or self fulfilling prophecy. As long as it gives me what I want, I'm happy

[Wax Frog]

Assuming it's true that we are each in total control of our own perceptions, then someone with a hard-science view of the world must as as consequence never encounter any evidence against it. For what it's worth I have read of cases where MPD sufferers did indeed manifest physical changes.

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by 993125002

how could you explain the lack of physical change in a person with multiple personality disorder? also, someone sitting in a hospital that's on morphine would believe that their bodies are changing in unusual ways, but their beliefs don't change their physical bodies at all.

Are you looking to be convinced of the power of thought or are you just looking for confirmation of your own beliefs on the matter, which say thoughts have no effect?

You would be surprised how little a persons core beliefs change, even when on heavy narcotics.

[joelr]

Originally Posted by 993125002

how could you explain the lack of physical change in a person with multiple personality disorder? also, someone sitting in a hospital that's on morphine would believe that their bodies are changing in unusual ways, but their beliefs don't change their physical bodies at all.

No one on morphine believes their body is changing in unusual ways. Side effects are simply, a sense of well being, going higher it becomes euphoria then higher still = sleep, or if too much was used = sleep + serious lack of pulmonary function also known as "death". You might be thinking of psychotropic drugs.

The mind/body connection is not instantaneous but there is a direct link between the two. That's pretty obvious. A man who thought he was a woman could eventually release less testosterone, more estrogen, causing many physical changes.

If you had the actual thought that a ghost was standing behind you (say you thought you saw one in a mirror)your body would change. Adrenaline and all sorts of chemicals would release along with involuntary movements - yelling (to scare the adversary), fleeing, blood flow and heart rate change, pain killers, tunnel vision...

All that from a thought.

There is a mind body connection established in medical literature. Do some searching if you are interested.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by 993125002

how could you explain the lack of physical change in a person with multiple personality disorder?

Thoughts and personalities are things -- mind stuff. Things don't change the manifestation, you do.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by 993125002

how could you explain the lack of physical change in a person with multiple personality disorder?

Who says that there is a lack of physical change? There are changes. Some changes which have been documented in MPD patients include changes in:

- responses to the same medication;
- allergic sensitivities
- autonomic and endocrine function,
- EEG, VEP, and regional cerebral blood flow.
- vision (myopia, long-sightedness, color blindness).

For further details on the last point, you may wish to refer to the following scientific paper: Visual function in multiple personality disorder. [J Am Optom Assoc. 1996] - PubMed result

Pay close attention to the conclusion. The paper is suggesting to medical practitioners that:

if a person's vision keeps changing, consider the possibility that he may be suffering from MPD.

In other words, the paper has gone beyond merely trying to prove that MPD can lead to changes in vision (that is already indisputable). The paper is saying that if there are otherwise unexplained changes in vision, suspect MPD.

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Who says that there is a lack of physical change? There are changes. Some changes which have been documented in MPD patients include changes in:

- responses to the same medication;
- allergic sensitivities
- autonomic and endocrine function,
- EEG, VEP, and regional cerebral blood flow.
- vision (myopia, long-sightedness, color blindness).

For further details on the last point, you may wish to refer to the following scientific paper: Visual function in multiple personality disorder. [J Am Optom Assoc. 1996] - PubMed result

Pay close attention to the conclusion. The paper is suggesting to medical practitioners that:

if a person's vision keeps changing, consider the possibility that he may be suffering from MPD.

In other words, the paper has gone beyond merely trying to prove that MPD can lead to changes in vision (that is already indisputable). The paper is saying that if there are otherwise unexplained changes in vision, suspect MPD.

There are even instances of people who are insulin dependant diabetics in one person but not in another.

[OlderWiser]

Originally Posted by 993125002

how could you explain the lack of physical change in a person with multiple personality disorder?

As a matter of fact, due to certain circumstances in my life, I've know more than a few people with dissociative identity disorder. In fact, dissociation is a continuum, and there are different degrees of it. Full-on multiples, with time loss and completely distinct alter egos who do not communicate with each other are very rare. Most people with dissociation disorders fall somewhere more toward the middle of the continuum.

That being said, there ARE changes in many cases. There have been recorded cases of one alter ego being allergic to some substance and showing every sign of allergic reaction, and then when it switches out and another takes it place, all signs of allergy go, as well. There are visible changes in body posture (sometimes shocking changes, as there are cases where one or another alter is noticeably taller or shorter, for example). Sometimes facial features appear to change subtly but noticeably. There are also sometimes very clear changes in vocal patterns (accent, cadence, pitch, timbre, etc.). This doesn't happen in every case, certainly, but the literature on the subject is full of reports of this phemonenon.

Psychiatry generally assumes that the changes are psychosomatic, which they certainly are. Psych=mind and soma=body. It's the mind causing changes in the body.

I'm not sure how you think this applies to the usual idea of Law of Attraction, though. I think maybe you're trying to say that the mind controlling the body isn't real? Or that it doesn't mean anything? Not sure what your point is, but your premise was flawed, in any event.

[EDIT] Ah, I should have read the entire thread. I see this has already been addressed. Oh, well. The more the merrier, I guess.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by 993125002

and for those that believe in teh power of the law of attraction or prayer, check this Self-fulfilling prophecy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the other issue that beginners often struggle with. They would say: "Oh, the LOA just works by means of a self-fulfilling prophecy."

Why, yes, the LOA can and does work that way.

Or they would say: "Oh, the LOA just works by way of the placebo effect."

Indeed, yes, the LOA can and does work that way.

Or they would say: "Oh, the LOA just works by way of the reticular activating effect, whereby people end up noticing things related to what they're interested in."

Once again, yes, the LOA can and does work that way.

Another thing they might say is: "Oh, the LOA is a self-motivational tool. It inspires people to take action, and that's how they achieve their goals."

And at the risk of sounding repetitive, once again the LOA can and does work in that way.

To summarise, your thoughts simply create your reality. And the actual process, for any given intention, could happen in a huge number of different ways - including all the ways mentioned above, plus many other ways.

Some of those ways are mundane; some are commonsensical; some are commonplace; some are surprising; some are scientific; some are supernatural; some are paranormal; some are metaphysical; some are miraculous .....

And all of them happen, because your thoughts create your reality.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by OlderWiser

As a matter of fact, due to certain circumstances in my life, I've know more than a few people with dissociative identity disorder. In fact, dissociation is a continuum, and there are different degrees of it. Full-on multiples, with time loss and completely distinct alter egos who do not communicate with each other are very rare. Most people with dissociation disorders fall somewhere more toward the middle of the continuum.

That being said, there ARE changes in many cases. There have been recorded cases of one alter ego being allergic to some substance and showing every sign of allergic reaction, and then when it switches out and another takes it place, all signs of allergy go, as well. There are visible changes in body posture (sometimes shocking changes, as there are cases where one or another alter is noticeably taller or shorter, for example). Sometimes facial features appear to change subtly but noticeably. There are also sometimes very clear changes in vocal patterns (accent, cadence, pitch, timbre, etc.). This doesn't happen in every case, certainly, but the literature on the subject is full of reports of this phemonenon.

This seems very important. It's like it holds a key to eliminating disease by being able to take on a different personality, by becoming someone else.

Not dissociative identity disorder (I don't think!) but your mentioning of allergies reminded me of a conversation I had with a friend last week. She had always said she was allergic to cats. Seven years ago she got involved with a man who had two cats and she was thrilled to discover she was not allergic to these two particular cats. She decided it was because they had long hair and all the other cats she'd ever been around were short-haired. Whatever! I was just happy she'd lost her allergy to cats. Well, she's been living with this man now for five years. One of the cats has passed on and the other is extremely old, like 26. My friend said her partner will be devastated when this cat goes, but in a way it will be a relief for her because she's allergic to it. I wanted to know how she could be allergic to the cat now when she wasn't for several years.

It's possible she wasn't allergic to the cat for several years because she was in love with her boyfriend. Whether it's being in love ramping up the immune system, or being in love turning her into another personality altogether, for awhile she lost the cat allergy. Now they've been together so long and settled in and the honeymoon's over, the cat allergy is back.

I'm getting off the subject but in a way it's on the subject too.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

This is the other issue that beginners often struggle with. They would say: "Oh, the LOA just works by means of a self-fulfilling prophecy."

Why, yes, the LOA can and does work that way.

Or they would say: "Oh, the LOA just works by way of the placebo effect."

Indeed, yes, the LOA can and does work that way.

Or they would say: "Oh, the LOA just works by way of the reticular activating effect, whereby people end up noticing things related to what they're interested in."

Once again, yes, the LOA can and does work that way.

Another thing they might say is: "Oh, the LOA is a self-motivational tool. It inspires people to take action, and that's how they achieve their goals."

And at the risk of sounding repetitive, once again the LOA can and does work in that way.

LOL

I really don't understand how this point is a plus for your side. It demonstrates that the LoA is unfalsifiable, untestable, and therefore unscientific by definition. Yet you ALG repeatedly try to "prove" the LoA with scientific studies. I could say "the Force is behind everything," point to the same exact scientific studies that you cite and say, "see? The Force is real!"

But I would be wrong. If I would be wrong, then why are you not wrong?

In reality* the Law of Attraction only exists in the mind.

*Universal reality NOT your personal reality - true for everyone, not just for me.

[joelr]

What the heck is universal reality?

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by joelr

What the heck is universal reality?

That is the personal reality of SmartAlx....

[Acting Like Godot]

No doubt it is something falsifiable, testable and scientific - it's just that scientists haven't gotten round to it yet.

Just like the devil which Smart Alx believes in.

[mikethedrummer44]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

LOL

I really don't understand how this point is a plus for your side. It demonstrates that the LoA is unfalsifiable, untestable, and therefore unscientific by definition. Yet you ALG repeatedly try to "prove" the LoA with scientific studies. I could say "the Force is behind everything," point to the same exact scientific studies that you cite and say, "see? The Force is real!"

But I would be wrong. If I would be wrong, then why are you not wrong?

In reality* the Law of Attraction only exists in the mind.

*Universal reality NOT your personal reality - true for everyone, not just for me.

I could also say "the reason why we're put on Earth is to glorify God," but that would be unfalsifiable, untestable, and therefore unscientific by definition.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

Assuming it's true that we are each in total control of our own perceptions, then someone with a hard-science view of the world must as as consequence never encounter any evidence against it.

Yes ... and how do they manage to avoid encountering any evidence?

Ahh, the miraculous universe. Notice how the OP has disappeared.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

I could say "the Force is behind everything," point to the same exact scientific studies that you cite and say, "see? The Force is real!"

There was a specific question about multiple personality disorder.

I gave a specific answer to that question, and cited a scientific paper published in a peer-reviewed journal.

If you think that this has something to do with Star Wars, you may be right in your own reality.

[Arboretor]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

There was a specific question about multiple personality disorder.

I gave a specific answer to that question, and cited a scientific paper published in a peer-reviewed journal.

It was an helpful answer. I had read about such changes in MPD persons before, but this article reminded me again about the power the mind has over the body.

[Jack]

I remember that(although not clearly) a doctor said on the television that there are people(who has multiple personality disorder) whose eye color changes when they shift into their other personalities.

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by 993125002

how could you explain the lack of physical change in a person with multiple personality disorder? also, someone sitting in a hospital that's on morphine would believe that their bodies are changing in unusual ways, but their beliefs don't change their physical bodies at all.

Lol @ the author of this not knowing what he's talking about.

There are many instances of "incurable" and chronic diseases and conditions disappearing when a multiple personality patient changes personalities, and then re-appearing when the sick personality comes back.