Busting Loose from the Money Game

[cylon]

Originally Posted by impaul99

Now, to answer you question. Does knowing that this is just an illusion DIMINISH the value of a talent you've worked to develop? or does it Enhance it? I think if you really think about it, it actually enhances it. What do you think?

It enhances it but I think it means I made everyone else in the world less talented so I could have the advantage. Which makes it not as real. Which.... it never was anyway. If nothing is real, then all the stuff I'm concerned about is all a moot point anyway because it was an illusion from day one.

And it enhances it because I can take it as far as I want now that it is a "legitimate skill" in the game world.

I get your WOW analogy, and when I think that it's a game, and that this very discussion we are having is like me moving up a level, that is pretty exciting.

When I think of the ramifications, yes it is pretty exciting and my heart races and everything, and I think it's extremely cool and can see how it will be literally life changing.

The only thing that concerns me is the people in my life, they are real people to me, and that's why I love them. But I'm not real anyway, so again, moot point.

I can tell I'm about to return to a period where many of my posts stop making sense for awhile....

[impaul99]

The people in your life that you love are as "real" as you want them to be.

I think a lot of times we get bummed out when we realize this world is not "real" because we think that the people in our life are going to disappear. They won't disappear unless you want them to.

You can continue to have your "fake" relationships with them for another 10, 20, 30, 50 or 100 years if you want, it's all up to you. Just as you can continue to play Warcraft with other players even though you know the game is an illusion.

In actual fact, knowing that those people are really YOU makes the relationships even MORE REAL in a way, because they will never end. You'll never stop having a relationship with yourself. This lifetime, the next, the next, ten thousand lifetimes later you will still be having relationships with those you love, because they are really just parts of you. That kind of makes those you love a PERMANENT part of your reality in a way.

Maybe the next step is to really think about the word "Real" and what it means to you. For example, what would it mean to you if The Truth was that your loved ones are "real"? What would it mean to you if The Truth was that your loved ones are just part of an illusion, as are you?

If you get clear as to the meaning behind the difference between those two things, maybe you will realize that you can get the same thing from your loved ones even if they aren't "real" as if they were "real".

Remember...consciousness (You) IS real. This "Game of Life" is the illusion. Once you realize that the ONLY thing in this "Game of Life" that you really value is the other parts of YOU (which is real), you might not be so bummed out about the illusion being an illusion.

Remind me of a joke:

A man flying a small plane crashes into the ocean and ends up stranded on a deserted island. He begins to pray to God to save him from his loneliness.

God shows up and tells the man that since he wants to end his loneliness, he can choose one person out of anyone in the world to share the island with. He can pick anyone he wants and God will make their plane crash so they end up on the same island with the man to end his loneliness and make him happy.

The man thinks about it for a while, gets excited and tells God he'd like to share the island with Angelina Jolie. God asks him "Are you sure that's who you want?" and the man says "Yes, I'm 100% sure. She's the most beautiful woman on Earth and I know if I'm the only man on the island I bet we'll end up having sex together."

God makes it so. Angelina's plane crashes, she ends up on the island with the man, and after a period of time she ends up having sex with the guy. At first he's happy, but after a few months he starts to cry and complain to God.

God appears to him and asks him "What's the matter? You've got the most beautiful woman on earth with you on this island and you're even having sex with her! Is she not beautiful?"

The man replies "No, no, she's perfect. She's beautiful and the sex is great."

God asks, "Then why are you crying? What's the matter?"

The man stops sobbing and says to God, "I can't tell any of my friends."

[Angela]

Originally Posted by cylon

It enhances it but I think it means I made everyone else in the world less talented so I could have the advantage.

And that's an illusion, too. If you are making "everyone else" less talented than "you" are so that you can feel like you have an advantage, you're still doing that Phase One practice of separating out the "cylon" avatar as more/better -- and therefore separate -- keeping the illusion of limitation in place.

It's an opportunity for breakthrough into expansion. There are no moot points!

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Angela

Here's something funny, too -- just about every time I have a client, at the moment of breakthrough (or other critical moment), some physical manifestation will occur in my environment. Once, during a client who was resolving two conflicting "parts" of herself, it was an Indian wedding procession, complete with camel, suddenly passing by my window. Another time, a client kept repeating how he wanted to drill through deep down to his limiting beliefs, and suddenly a street worker fired up his drill right outside my window. Pretty fun.

This is great stuff.

This conversation reminds me of something I've done on occasion when I have had to pry myself out of a unhealthy situation but I'm enormously attached to it -- like when I knew I needed to break up with my fiance' and move out. I've asked myself what "I" would do if suddenly "I" was taken over by some other person brand new to Earth. Like we switched places. Or what would I do if I had amnesia. Meaning I can start fresh right from this moment and can easily sweep all the attachment b.s. aside, because none of it affects me. This new person, or the person with amnesia, would be able to look at the situation with clear eyes and no attachment and make a choice.

It seems similar to the World of Warcraft analogy, being able to think more clearly about choices when you're not so attached to the game.

I wonder if this has something to do with people's stories about how they tried and tried and tried manifesting something and finally went, "I'm done trying, I give up," and 10 minutes later what they'd been wanting so much made its appearance.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

I wonder if this has something to do with people's stories about how they tried and tried and tried manifesting something and finally went, "I'm done trying, I give up," and 10 minutes later what they'd been wanting so much made its appearance.

That's TOO EASY.

Don't take away my struggle, I need it.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by cylon

That's TOO EASY.

Don't take away my struggle, I need it.

I was watching a Tony Robbins video yesterday and he said something along the lines of:

"Pain in a part of life. It's important. We want pain. It drills deep within us and makes a hole that we can either fill up with love or fear. We can't get rid of pain. It's a part of life. It will always be there.

However, suffering is optional. Suffering is the caused by the illusion of having NO power to change things, of having no control.

Suffering is optional."

This is in a video where he works with a woman who has two children with cerebral palsy, a $250,000 gambling debt, and a marriage that's falling apart, and turns her around.

I think that "Pain is inevitable but suffering is optional" part applies to all of this.

We need problems and challenges in life. But we don't need the feelings of frustration and depression associated with having challenges that we feel we have no control over.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by impaul99

We need problems

I would say even that's an illusion -- maybe the biggest one of all. Suffering equals believing your problems are really problems.

And if you believe you need problems or struggle, then you're right, you do.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Angela

I would say even that's an illusion -- maybe the biggest one of all. Suffering equals believing your problems are really problems.

And if you believe you need problems or struggle, then you're right, you do.

Anything in this illusion is based on duality. Positive/Negative, Up/Down, Left/Right, In/Out etc.

Everything has 2 sides to it.

"Negative" people mostly interpret things by looking at the negative side of everything.

"Positive" people mostly interpret things by looking at the positive side of everything.

"Realistic" people mostly interpret things by trying to gauge the "middle ground" but from experience I've found them mostly to fall near past the middle line towards the "negative" side a bit.

A "problem" is just a label. I could say that I have a problem because I have to eat lunch soon and I'm hungry. If that's how we define things, then all of life is full of problems. Even breathing can be a problem.

But, as you mentioned, it's all an illusion. The duality of everything is just an illusion. Everything is both things - positive and negative - just depending on how we interpret it. And on top of that it doesn't really even exist.

[Angela]

When you put "problem" and "challenge" together in that sentence, impaul, my feeling was that you probably think of those two things in the same way -- like a game. A Phase One player, on the other hand, or a Phase II player who forgets, would tend to see lots of problem and struggle in what is really a game she set up for herself -- something her consciousness created for fun.

A Phase I player or Phase II player who forgets might see that last word in that last sentence and go a little kittywompus! "WTF?!? My problems sure are problems, and there's nothing fun about them!!" Whereas you, the Phase II player might see a "problem," rub your hands together gleefully, and say to yourself: "Whoo-boy, lookee here what I've created! Lots of expansion available here!" (After maybe reclaiming your power from them, of course. )

(And yes, I realize my consciousness is creating that. Let's just take that as given from here on, whaddya say? Or this thread's gonna get cumbersome fast. )

[Matiasfx]

I believe that when we define something as "a problem" we are judging it and thats how we play in the phase 1 (of course it depends on your definition of problem, but be it whatever it may be, it has mostly negative connotation, but even if u see problems as a positive thing u r still judging it as positive and that is still phase 1), the idea its to go beyond that, where u can simple look at it and accept it as it is, just like an scene in movie, u can be entertain with a character struggling or with someone thriving, it doesn't really matter as long as u are entertain.

My main problem still is with the aspect of creating other people or with the idea that they dont exist as individual entities outside ourselves, but after hearing the mp3 he has on the web where he explains his dream, i think i can accept it a little more that way, but i still need to work on this.

I would love to hear about u Angela that read the book some time ago, how and if u apply the procces?

Can someone explain me in which cases we apply the mini one? It seems to me that we do it in all situations in which we know that we created that but the ones that does not cause disconfort (for those we have the process). But thats everything, if that makes sense.

Thanks
Mat

PS: This approach remainds me a lot of Ho'ponopono, where everything its part of your creation and when u dont like something that u created (we can say that when u feel disconfort) u do the work ( You said to yourself "Im sorry, i love you, thank u") and in that way it seems to me that u reclaim your power. Anyone see the similarities?

It also seems to me that facing the disconfort part of the process its really similar to the courage that Steves says we need to apply to the LOA process if we want to manifest.

A lot of pieces of the puzzle are falling into place.

[Angela]

Mat, in asking about the mini-process, what do you mean by "that's everything"? You never feel discomfort? Or you always feel discomfort around limitations? I'm not understanding what you're saying there.

[impaul99]

What he means is that if we apply The Process to things that bring discomfort, and The Mini Process for things that we know are illusions but don't bring discomfort, that implies that EVERYTHING ELSE we see would qualify for that.

You're right Mat, Ho'oponoponooopononopo (can never spell it right) is very similar if not identical. The Process is very similar. Dr. DeMartini's "The DeMartini Method of Collapsing" is very similar.

And, of course, A Course in Miracles is the same thing.

I actually kind of like the ACIM process better than "The Process". Instead of trying to collapse on everything ACIM just tells you to set aside a few 5 minutes sessions per day and say something as simple as:

"This telephone that I see does not have any meaning except that which I give it."

"This bookshelf that I see does not have any meaning except that which I give it."

and stuff like that...

By being arbitrary and just picking anything and everything, we learn to see that a floating piece of dust is just as much an illusion as a nuclear bomb or a giant mountain.

[impaul99]

Other people:

Why do we have other people in our lives? What purpose does it serve for us to have "others" manifest in our lives.

Remember that in order for the illusion to appear real, we must first make a judgement. When we judge something as "good" or "bad" or anything else, we give it power and make it more real.

However, judgements are not very powerful in and of themselves, so in order for judgements to be more powerful and to help us keep those things we judge "real" within the illusion, we create consequences.

Consequences bring power to judgements, which bring power to the illusionary objects and events.

How do people support our illusion? They represent and "hold" our habits of thoughts and beliefs and remind us of those things so that we maintain "status quo".

For example, if you choose to have beliefs like:
- the economy is bad
- there is a credit crunch
- jobs are scarce
- it's hard to make money
- we're in a depresssion
- etc.

You'll attract and surround yourself with people who reflect those exact same beliefs to you.

However, if one day you wake up and it's sunny outside and you feel good and more connected to your true/abundant self, you may for a moment start thinking that maybe things aren't that bad...maybe the world isn't as difficult as you thought, maybe things are getting better out there.

In such a case it would be way too easy to manifest events and circumstances which would fuel that forward and show you even more "good things" and more beneficial stuff and you may awaken way too quickly.

So what the people in your life do is they come into your life and "ground you" in the "status quo" of your day-to-day beliefs. All of a sudden a friend calls you and says "**** I just lost my job!" and you're once again reminded of the scarcity in the world.

So in a way, I think we manifest people and events "out there" to keep the illusion alive.

Of course if we ditch our limiting beliefs and change them, we attract a whole new set of people who then re-inforce THOSE beliefs.

[Pause]

Has anyone on here read the german translation of the book?

I would really like to get the translated version, if it is any good.
(English is not a problem, but I mostly read english books and some variety would be nice )

[Matiasfx]

Originally Posted by Angela

Mat, in asking about the mini-process, what do you mean by "that's everything"? You never feel discomfort? Or you always feel discomfort around limitations? I'm not understanding what you're saying there.

Thanks for asking Angela

I mean i do feel disconfort some times like we all do, but for what i understood in those situations we have to use "The process" and the "Mini process" its to be used when we dont feel disconfort but there is Situation limiting us.

I will quote from the book to be more specific:

"As you move into phase 2 of the human game, you will notice two scenarios unfolding related to money and finances:
1- Experiences that cause you to feel disconfort
2-Experiences that don't cause you to feel disconfort but point the way to limiting eggs in the field

When you feel dosconfort, you apply The process. When you dont feel disconfort but you see a limitation at work you apply the mini-process"

And then he gives the example that if u look at your bank account and see the amount too low and fell discofort you do the process, but if u dont feel disconfort because for example the amount its enough or big, then you do the mini.

I mean all situation will fall in one of those categories then, or we feel disconfort or we dont.....so we have to do each of them in all situations?? Thats what i mean with "Thats everything"

I mean the key point here is what he ment with "when a situation its limiting you", but i would said that looking at the bank account and see it too big its not limiting in my opinion, but i guess that with limiting he meant everything that its a part of the hologram and as a result not real, but again that seems to include everything we experience.

Know what i mean now??

Thanks again

Mat

PS: Sorry, i know that im not really good expresing my thougths in english

[Matiasfx]

Thanks Pual, It makes sense what u said about other people helping in keeping the illusion alive and more stable for us, in the book it says something about that. We create all that, so we dont realise that its a game we created for ourselves (in Phase 1).

I actually have the book "A course in miralces" but i didnt really went past chapter 7, it was a heavy read, at least for that time, i may need to take a nother look. But i think that for now i will just stay with this one, so i dont confuse the hell out of myself....lol

Paul can i ask What makes this process more special for you than the others (ACIM, De martini one, Hoponopono)? I mean maybe special its not the word but i mean for what i have read this one push u over the edge in understanding and in giving u the breakthroughs u where looking for... was becasue the aplication of the process helped you more or was just the way in which he explains everything?

thnx

Mat

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Matiasfx

Know what i mean now??

Yes, I think I do. Well, yes, it could be that everything can look like it falls into one of those two categories: either a) discomfort or b) no discomfort but limitation. You could be doing the process every minute of every day! But as you reclaim more and more power, I think you'll find that moments fall more and more into a third category: c) no discomfort, no limitation: opportunity and choice. It's a pretty delightful state to be in!

For instance, to use the example of the bank account, you may

a) look at a low balance and feel discomfort (do the process); or

b) look at a big bank account and not feel discomfort, but you notice that you have bought into the illusion that a bank account can be "big" -- as if that were the source of expansion or joy or abundance. You're feeling fine cuz you have "enough" money (Phase I thinking) and you've got a niggling feeling that you're believing your own illusion (do the mini-process); or

c) you look at your bank account and you recognize that who you are is infinite joy, abundance, and power, and you delight in your limitless creation and expansion. You recognize that whether there is $1.95 in that account or $1,950,000 in that account, it's all an illusion, a creation of your consciousness, and you can deeply appreciate the limitlessness that is Who You Are. (Feel and express appreciation.)

It takes practice, and you can notice those moments of the infinite power, joy, and abundance that is YOUR consciousness more and more, and appreciate them more and more. How's that for expansion?

And just keep reclaiming your power.

Lots of love,
Angela

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Matiasfx

Thanks Pual, It makes sense what u said about other people helping in keeping the illusion alive and more stable for us, in the book it says something about that. We create all that, so we dont realise that its a game we created for ourselves (in Phase 1).

I actually have the book "A course in miralces" but i didnt really went past chapter 7, it was a heavy read, at least for that time, i may need to take a nother look. But i think that for now i will just stay with this one, so i dont confuse the hell out of myself....lol

Paul can i ask What makes this process more special for you than the others (ACIM, De martini one, Hoponopono)? I mean maybe special its not the word but i mean for what i have read this one push u over the edge in understanding and in giving u the breakthroughs u where looking for... was becasue the aplication of the process helped you more or was just the way in which he explains everything?

thnx

Mat

Skip to the middle of the ACIM book and you'll find the "Workbook". For the actual course material.

See, the course material tells you WHY things work and HOW things are etc. I gave up on that as well. It was too deep. Instead, I just skipped to the workbook section - which is perfectly ok to do BTW - and just started doing the exercises.

I do one exercise whenever I feel like it. I don't try to do 1 per day or anything like that...just whenever I feel like it. For example, it could take 1 year to do 13 pages. You can do 1 lesson per day if you want, but they don't suggest doing it faster.

Trying to understand ACIM by reading the course is like trying to understand the inner workings of a car engine with V-TEch and Fuel Injection and Dual-Overhead Cams. Doing the lessons is like getting in the car and just driving.

I think the reason for me why this book made things click for me is that it was related to money...see I think we all have a cord that keeps us stuck in the illusion.

For example, some people create money problems, and the desire for money.

Some people create health problems and the desire for healing.

Some people create relationship problems and the desire for a loving relationship.

etc.

I think everyone uses SOMETHING to keep them in the illusion. Ho'Oponopono I think made sense to me but I saw it more like a healing thing. ACIM made sense, but it didn't really relate to money at all.

This book focused, like a laser, on money which was where I was giving away my power. I think it's been a process though, and maybe if I found this book 5 years ago it may not have the same impact.

For example, I know if I give it to some of my friends and they read it, they'll just shrug it off and say "Cool." and that's it...no breakthrough. Sometimes it's just the thing you need to push you over the edge.

If it doesn't do it for you...keep looking...you'll get there.

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by impaul99

For example, I know if I give it to some of my friends and they read it, they'll just shrug it off and say "Cool." and that's it...no breakthrough. Sometimes it's just the thing you need to push you over the edge.

If it doesn't do it for you...keep looking...you'll get there.

I take this as a response to the "why isn't everyone doing it?" challenge The whole teacher-appears-when-student-ready thing, with the teacher role not necessarily played by a flesh-and-blood presence coming into your life...

[Matiasfx]

Originally Posted by Angela

I think you'll find that moments fall more and more into a third category: c) no discomfort, no limitation: opportunity and choice. It's a pretty delightful state to be in! ......


It takes practice, and you can notice those moments of the infinite power, joy, and abundance that is YOUR consciousness more and more, and appreciate them more and more. How's that for expansion?

And just keep reclaiming your power.

Lots of love,
Angela

Thanks for the answer, i like the third category and how u explained that, i think that each of us will feel in which situations its best to do the work and reclaim our power and which ones skip and let them pass.

Have a nice weekend Angela

Mat

[Angela]

Thanks, Mat, you too.
Lots of love,
Angela

[Matiasfx]

Originally Posted by impaul99

Skip to the middle of the ACIM book and you'll find the "Workbook". For the actual course material...............

Thanks Paul, makes sence

I didnt even open the ACIM workbook because i first wanted to fisnish the "theory" but maybe i should give it a shot to the excercises as u said.

I also think this book resonates more with me because its simplicity and how he explains the "subjective reallity" aspect, and its something that was missing for me on the Hoponopono books.

Its like u said, somethings just hit you when u read them or they dont, it all depends in which stage you are in your growth proccess. I have read books a few years back and i didnt make much out of them, but when i re-read them it was like reading another different book, i guess this time i was ready and i neded to learn a few things before for that one to make sence.

Well, i hope to see this thread going and in the meanwhile i have to do a lot of thinking

Cheers

Mat

[Keena]

Originally Posted by Matiasfx

Its like u said, somethings just hit you when u read them or they dont, it all depends in which stage you are in your growth proccess. I have read books a few years back and i didnt make much out of them, but when i re-read them it was like reading another different book, i guess this time i was ready and i neded to learn a few things before for that one to make sence.

This is exactly it for me! I "KNEW" all this stuff before -some of which was integrated and some of which stayed in the realm of theoretical knowledge which "made sense" and that I accepted. But this book just clicked all those puzzle pieces together! It was a complete shift in consciousness.

I read the book 2 weeks ago, and then re-read lots of it again. And just a couple of days ago picked up Tolle's "Power of Now". It made lots of sense before - abut it's even more amazing with the Phase 2 perspective.

The "x-ray" goggles have been an amazing way to cut through the crap and see the little gems hidden within - like the LoA.

I appreciate Paul's video game analogy which made a lot of sense and how I was thinking about these concepts vs. it being a movie.

Angela, could you please expand more on your games? I have been trying to apply the BL book process in not trying to change anything in your hologram, yet your games seem to point to doing that. Does that only apply if you've already reached the BL point? Would it be ill-advised to try before reaching the BL point?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Keena

Angela, could you please expand more on your games? I have been trying to apply the BL book process in not trying to change anything in your hologram, yet your games seem to point to doing that. Does that only apply if you've already reached the BL point? Would it be ill-advised to try before reaching the BL point?

If you have an agenda -- if you're trying to fix, change, or make better something in your hologram, you're still in Phase I thinking. When you are creating for the sheer enjoyment of playing with your creations, then you're in Phase II. It's a challenge, isn't it!? It's a challenge for me. Sometimes I forget; I'll be playing a game, creating in my hologram for the fun of it, living in inspiration, appreciating, reclaiming my power, and using empowering language, and I'll just plum forget -- I'll believe that what I'm creating is real, solid, fixed, and maybe I'll worry or get stressed. What's there to do is to remind myself that my consciousness created this. It makes me laugh to notice, every time I notice!

You can't do Phase II wrong -- you can't make a mistake. But if you commit to Phase II living, living "reactively" (I would call it more like living "inspiredly" -- using the tool that you're inspired to use in each moment) -- and you have an agenda to try to improve or fix your hologram, if you have even a whiff of judgement or Phase I thinking, it simply won't work. The illusions will look, feel, and act "real" to you.

Keena, you said that my games seem to point to trying to change the hologram. How so? What are you seeing that has you say that? (And did I talk with you about my Phase II games? I don't remember doing that. Maybe I'm creating psychic connection with you! )

[cylon]

I'm about half way through now, and last night I listened to his 90 minute audio from his site, which is a good overview, and fun to listen to actually.

So, I'm watching a t.v. show, one of the parts of the show is about something I did yesterday, another part is directly lifted from this book. One of the lessons, from reading the the book last night, showed up in a sitcom. This has been happening a lot lately, I suppose I'm just thinking about it more, so it's happening more.

So I'm sitting there thinking about how you guys were mentioning something physical happening (like a noise) when you "see it"... I'm thinking "wow I'm making so much stuff happen" and then suddenly the power in my house goes off for a few minutes.

And I was thinking about my question about talent... all the people that I admire and look up to, and that I am inspired by their talent, I actually created them (along with myself)? It appears so. That would make me the most talented person in my universe.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by cylon

That would make me the most talented person in my universe.

Are you seeing the illusion of that yet?

[Matiasfx]

Originally Posted by cylon

I'm about half way through now, and last night I listened to his 90 minute audio from his site, which is a good overview, and fun to listen to actually.
.

Cylon, can u point me to that interview please? i cant seem to find it

Thnx in advance

[cylon]

Official Busting Loose Website - Resources

Towards the bottom of the page.

[Matiasfx]

Originally Posted by cylon

Official Busting Loose Website - Resources

Towards the bottom of the page.

thank you Cylon

Mat

[cylon]

Enjoy!