Subjective Reality & spirit guides...

[JJH]

Last week I posted an open question to Erin in her forum which she didn't respond to (which is fine). So I'm posting here for anyone who believes in the Subjective Reality model and has experience with spirit guides and/or other entities.

Q1: Do you subscribe to Steve's Subjective Reality model of reality?

Q2: If so, how do you reconcile this with your contact with guides, spirits and other souls and entities in other dimentions? They seem like "individual personalities" floating around out there. Or "individual" aspects of pure-consciousness.

I find SR a fairly easy and resourseful concept to grasp, having taken personal responsibility as its major lesson. Steve's logical explanation that one can't know BEYOND A DOUBT that others have consciousness is a resonable argument (for someone like me who hasn't experienced too many paranormal encounters). However, for you personally, how do these other individual entities fit into the SR model? If indeed they do for you?

I'm personally leaning away from SR (while taking what I think are its major benefits with me!) more towards a co-creative every-individual-as-shard-of-pure-consciousness model (phew!).

For those who have experience in other dimentional communication, I'd love to hear your take! Thanks

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by JJH

Last week I posted an open question to Erin in her forum which she didn't respond to (which is fine). So I'm posting here for anyone who believes in the Subjective Reality model and has experience with spirit guides and/or other entities.

Q1: Do you subscribe to Steve's Subjective Reality model of reality?

Q2: If so, how do you reconcile this with your contact with guides, spirits and other souls and entities in other dimentions? They seem like "individual personalities" floating around out there. Or "individual" aspects of pure-consciousness.

Q1: I wouldn't say I "subscribe" to it, but I accept it, am making efforts to implement it in my life and shift my existence to it, and I think I understand it (without the need for logic or cerebral understanding of it) and to facilitate its integration into my inner life, I repeatedly listen to the True Nature of Reality and Overcoming Fear podcasts, because I just can't internalize or even register in my mind all that he says at one time and at first I was especially lost by his reasoning and logic (not because it was lacking, but because I am not very "cerebral"), and also by his computer-oriented references.

Note: I do not have firsthand experience with guides and such, but no one needs to have, it is only a question of understanding the subjective reality model. Moreover, I may have such experiences in the future if I set out to do so, but people who have this kind of experience have, first, minimally believed it was possible, and in many cases have deliberately set out to have it and done what was necessary to achieve it in each individual encounter.

Q2: There is no need to reconcile anything. If you are experiencing a contact with an entity not living on earth, in that moment, you are still creating your reality. There is nothing to reconcile, because that entity you are experiencing is still part of your own consciousness and creation.

The subjective reality model is all-encompassing and by that model, there is nothing you can experience or perceive that does not issue from your own consciousness.

That one would think that these entities in some other dimesion are not part of the experiencer's own consciousness and creation would indicate a lack in understanding of the subjective reality model and an acknowledgement that each person has their own individual consciousness, which is the specific contrary to the subjective reality model.

I don't know if you listen to the True Nature of Reality podcast (#16) and the Overcoming Fear podcast (#8), but if you listened to one or both several times, maybe you would come to understand why there is nothing to reconcile, not only for an individual experiencing contact with an "other-worldly" entity, but for any experience and perception that is had by the subject.

[JJH]

Hi Bitsy,

thanks for the response. Yes, I have read to Steve's articles and listened to the podcasts on Subjective Reality and understood them. I happen to think they are excellent, and almost all of the conclusions they point to are extremely resourceful beliefs to have. I've taken much from them. My question is not an attack. I myself have nothing to reconcile - I was asking people who believe in both SR and spirits how THEY reconcile these beliefs.

There is a universe of form, and the infinite beyond form. I'm typing this at my computer in the physical realm, and yet I am somehow connected to the All-That-Is pure consciousness beyond - Indeed, I am pure consciousness. As are you, and everyone else. Meditation puts one in touch with the Source.

But according to psychics, there seems to be an in-between realm in which spirits, souls of the dead and other entities reside. If a psychic can commune with the spirit of the deceased, surely that is an indicator to the psychic, that other human beings have an individual consciousness. Something that goes against the very central tenet that SR is built on.

I understand where you are coming from though, and sure, that could be just another interaction within the psychic's own consciousness. But in my limited experience, when one transcends the ego there is awareness, stillness and the experience is that of oneness with the infinite - meaning connection with pure consciousness - yours, mine, at that level, we are all one - no "individual separate consciousness" left...

Don't get me wrong, as I've said SR is an extremely resourceful model which I utilize to great effect every day. I was just curious how Steve and Erin reconcile this.

[Reyv]

At the absolute level, we are all one. There is one single entity which contains everything in existence. At our relative level, there appears to be separation and individuality.

I might have this wrong, but I don't think the Subjective Reality model ever specified that our planet (or even our universe for that matter) is all that exists. I believe your conflict arises from such an assumption.

Imagine instead that there may be many such layers of consciousness going down from the absolute level at which we are all one. In this view, Spirit Guides would simply be entities that reside on a higher level (relatively speaking).

Also, if you were God would you have created just this one reality? I, for one, believe our reality is just one out of a very large number of other realities.

How does this all reconcile with SR? Imagine dropping a pebble in a pond. When it hits, it sends out waves, influencing the state of the pond around it. Imagine that in the same fashion, your thoughts affect our current reality. When you drop the pebble, it only affects a very small area of the pond. Similarly, our thoughts could be localized only to our reality, so it would be fair to say that the sum of our thoughts creates our reality, and that our reality is a smaller whole in itself, sort of like a cell in the absolute whole.

[Erin Pavlina]

Spirit guides dwell within the realm of subjective reality. They are subject to the same "rules" as the rest of us. All part of the same hologram.

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by JJH

Hi Bitsy,

I understand where you are coming from though, and sure, that could be just another interaction within the psychic's own consciousness. But in my limited experience, when one transcends the ego there is awareness, stillness and the experience is that of oneness with the infinite - meaning connection with pure consciousness - yours, mine, at that level, we are all one - no "individual separate consciousness" left...

Hi JJH,

I just want to apologize if the tone in my answer gave the impression I thought your question was an attack. I didn't mean it that way. Sometimes maybe I write too formally, but only in order to appear intelligent .

So, even according to what you wrote here, I can still see that if a person does as you say and transcends their ego (or even if they don't), that anything they experience will be from their own consciousness and creation, also those entities that are not in our world...I'm not able to see a discrepancy or a problem.

In the True Nature of Reality podcast, Steve Pavlina says that all things you experience and perceive are from your own consciousness and creation, period. And that this is also true for people who do not know or believe that what they experience and perceive is a creation of their own mind/consciousness. It's confusing to me to think any other way.

Btw, I'm sorry, I'm not very familiar with these concepts or phrases like "transcending the ego." I've only been aware of subjective reality and IM for a few weeks and, as bad as it sounds, I am not good at logical thinking, so I basically shut any beginnings of logical thinking out of my mind, because the outcome usually has a bad effect on me and my life. There are some things that when I hear them, I just accept them without question, and this is one of those things.

[Shindra]

Excuse the long-windedness. I'm trying to convert to subjective reality, and I find writing long explanations a good way for me to incorporate new thoughts into understanding instead of just peripheral logical knowledge.

Originally Posted by JJH

But according to psychics, there seems to be an in-between realm in which spirits, souls of the dead and other entities reside. If a psychic can commune with the spirit of the deceased, surely that is an indicator to the psychic, that other human beings have an individual consciousness. Something that goes against the very central tenet that SR is built on.

Subjective reality says that other humans (or beings) aren't conscious. Deceased or not. "They can walk and talk and they seem to have minds, but I can't percieve their consciousness" - Steve in one of the podcasts. Talking with a spirit is no different than talking with a living.
You imagining seeing a person on the street. Like in a dream. Your are the dreamer of a street and a person. You think they have thoughts, and because of these thoughts they will say certain things. They only have the thoughts you think they do, the thoughts you project onto them, you, as consciousness, create. They say the words you think they will.
You think there are spirits. You dream there are spirits. You think they have thoughts, and that they talk to you. You think that you can percieve communication as sound. You think you can percieve communication as written words. As telepathic images, maybe. When a telepathic images pops into your mind, it is an illusion that is comes from any other individual conscious mind. The image comes from your own consciousness, as well as the illusion that there is someone else who say they sent you that image.

You might believe that you can feel another's emotions. In truth, those emotions were not felt by another and then chanelled to you. The emotions only began existing when you began feeling them, imagining them into existence.

Imagine that you had a dream. A pure one-consciousness dream, not a dream where another entity visited you in your dream - because there are no other dreamers in subjective reality.
Imagine dreaming of some random people. You made them up. They never existed. Imaginary characters you dream of. Maybe they have fish-heads and bat-wings (I give this image to reinforce that they are not real).
Imagine you then have a dream where the dead spirits of fish-head bat-wing people talk with you. You dream they say they are real, exist outside your dream, and have come to visit you in your dream. You dream they say they appear in your dream through a form of telepathy, making images of themselves in your dream, speaking through your subconscious mind.
You wake up. You are no longer dreaming about them. Now you don't think there are still some fish-head spirit people out there who can come into your dreams, influence your dreams. They only exist when you 'dream them up'.

Your consciousness can conjure up any experience it can imagine. You imagine having a body, and that there's another body, and that you can feel the first body from the inside and if the first body touches another you can feel the second from the outside through the first's nervous system. Or maybe you feel two bodies from the inside, just as you feel both a hand and a head.
You imagine having a mind, and maybe you can merge with another mind, and feel two personalities in your consciousness at once. Your consciousness is so smart. It is only limited by beliefs. It can be conscious of two Eisteins' at once. Have the thoughts of two minds. It can suddenly conjure up a feeling of experiencing both human body number 1 and a whole tree with branches and leaves from the inside. It can conjure up an experience of being the whole universe, with lots of simultaneous lives and experiences in it at once. But that universe doesn't exist when it's not conjuring it up, experiencing it, imagining it. Just like a dream scene only exists when you're conscious of it - when you wake up, those dream areas, houses and people and whatnot, are gone. They don't exist.
There are no apples in the world. Sometimes you create visions of apples in your sight-imaginings/creations. When you think you 'touch an apple', you create the experience of a feeling of something solid. So there exists an image of an apple and a fingertip-sensation of something solid. There still isn't an apple. Then maybe you imagine you experience being an apple, like you experience being a body. Then there's an apple, a real apple. Then you imagine being only a human body and the apple is no longer there, only image and sensation.
There are no spirits in the world. There is only one consciousness, and everything is projections of consciousness. There exists nothing outside of consciousness. If you're not conscious of it, it doesn't exists. No bodies, no minds, no spirits, no experiences except what you're conscious of right now.