How much skill does it take to manifest your intentions?

[SmartAlx]

Do you really think that crying makes a baby feel better?

ALG, the point that I am making is that manifesting your intentions reliably takes some... effort... nooo... effort is too strong of a word. But I hope you know what I mean.... manifesting your intentions reliably is not automatic. And the more you practice at it the more reliable your manifestations become. Isn't that true? Or you do just not want to agree with me, ever?

[aelle]

Your answers are extremely interesting, guys. Maybe you can help me with something. I understand that taking responsibility and being at cause is a major part of growth and IM, but I have a hard time conciling it with some of my life events - I'm specifically thinking abuse, as a child in particular. No matter how I try to look at it, I cannot wrap my head around the idea that I could be responsible for being raped when I wasn't yet able to talk. Input?

[themaster]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Do you really think that crying makes a baby feel better?

Uhuh..

Originally Posted by aelle

Your answers are extremely interesting, guys. Maybe you can help me with something. I understand that taking responsibility and being at cause is a major part of growth and IM, but I have a hard time conciling it with some of my life events - I'm specifically thinking abuse, as a child in particular. No matter how I try to look at it, I cannot wrap my head around the idea that I could be responsible for being raped when I wasn't yet able to talk. Input?

Everything is choice.. however your welcome to think otherwise.. That's what this reality is for

It's my understanding that I have a big ego.. it's also my understanding that it's not our job to think.. that is another's job.. does that help?

I will try one more time with your question.. understand that from the perspective before you came forth to physical.. you came forth happily and allowingly for things to happen in certain ways.. rape implies judgment.. judgment implies that there's a certain way to be and behave.. understand that from the perspective you came from these limitations/ideas were not in play and would seem well, silly

I would suggest in all real terms that you not look in the past because that is a illusion.. we may carry it with us.. but it's already over and done with that person/baby is not you anymore.. and only by implying your continuity to them do you imply that individual is you.. you have already changed who are since then a billion times over.. there not you.. so I suggest in all sincerity you drop ideas that are not you..

There is a simple saying on our planet which is in essence all I'm saying anyway "There is no used crying over spilt milk" yet the truth is many of humans.. love to cry all day and play the victim card day in and day out.. no one is a victim, everything is choice, take back your power by taking responsibility for your reality forgive yourself because that's who you're really holding back anyway...

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

There is a difference between not being good at something and being bad at something.

What I'm telling you is if it was left alone, it would function correctly. Just like with the hot stove and the hand that is placed there. Your natural instinct is to pull your hand away when you touch something damaging.

Intentional manifestation is the same way, if we didn't unlearn that natural part of it, we would normally focus away from the detrimental thoughts and more towards that which would keep us happy.

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

But learning to control the LoA consciously isn't exactly the same thing. You may not be born bad at it, but you aren't born good at it either. No one is born with the ability to consciously control the LoA. If that were the case then babies would never cry.

Nobody controls the LoA, it controls you and everyone else, absolutely. It's not like it goes away if you aren't consciously utilizing it. It's like gravity, you don't wake up and say, "Oh I think I will utilize the force of gravity today, so I don't float away."

And I would disagree that no one is born with the ability to work with the LoA. It is like free will, everyone is born with it, but to varying degrees which is a factor of how AWARE of choice you are. Intentional manifestation is the same way, it is a factor of how aware of your thoughts you are. You have the choice to choose what you think. This is the law of attraction.

Originally Posted by aelle

Your answers are extremely interesting, guys. Maybe you can help me with something. I understand that taking responsibility and being at cause is a major part of growth and IM, but I have a hard time conciling it with some of my life events - I'm specifically thinking abuse, as a child in particular. No matter how I try to look at it, I cannot wrap my head around the idea that I could be responsible for being raped when I wasn't yet able to talk. Input?

You believe that a child is not capable of offering negative vibration? Children are thinking the moment they are born. If something occurs that causes that child to feel fear and then they focus on it, you can expect a negative reality to enter that child's experience. The fact that the child does not understand what rape is is of no consequence as to WHAT is drawn into that child's experience of reality. An experience will always be drawn that reflects, and perpetuates, the fear present in the child.

But just because the thoughts of the child generated the experience, doesn't mean the child is to blame. No one would deliberately put themselves through emotional hell. Thus, ignorance is to blame. Knowledge is the antidote to ignorance.

Knowledge protects from every form of negativity in existence.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

But I hope you know what I mean.... manifesting your intentions reliably is not automatic. And the more you practice at it the more reliable your manifestations become. Isn't that true?

I think that is true, but your description over-simplifies the very wide range of intentions and practices that human beings can have.

I see people as practising all the time, whether they know it or not.

For example, a teacher may tell the students to check their maths homework to avoid making careless mistakes. Students who follow the advice and check their homework are practising an attitude of carefulness, which in turn creates a certain kind of reality.

Or perhaps you have a colleague who is very hot-tempered. After a few run-ins, you develop your own strategy to deal with him. Eg "When talking to John, I need to be cool and calm myself", or "I need to be more assertive, so that he understands he can't push me around".

Whatever strategy you choose, you probably rehearse it a couple of times in your mind, and you spend time thinking about it. In other words, you're practising too.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I think that is true, but your description over-simplifies the very wide range of intentions and practices that human beings can have.

I see people as practising all the time, whether they know it or not...

For example, a teacher may tell the students to check their maths homework... .

...Or perhaps you have a colleague who is very hot-tempered. After a few run-ins, you develop your own strategy to deal with him...

...Whatever strategy you choose, you probably rehearse it a couple of times in your mind, and you spend time thinking about it. In other words, you're practising too.

But that's just strategy. It's different than meditating on your desire for half an hour each day. And it's different than putting a note on your bathroom mirror that says "I will find love" thinking the note itself will bring love. Whatever metaphysical LoA method you use to manifest your intentions, it's not the same thing.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

But that's just strategy. It's different than meditating on your desire for half an hour each day.

As I said, there are many different practices.

I want to give more examples. Consider a team of rugby players or soccer players. Before the match begins, they get together in a circle, and do a "huddle" or a "group hug". They whisper some secret, positive words to each other - "Let's do it!"; "Go for it!"; "We're damned good at this, we've trained hard, we can beat them!" etc - and they conclude with a loud cheer.

This is magick. That is a ritual. This is actually a magickal ritual designed to create teamwork, confidence, victory etc. This is structurally similar to a group of witches who form a magickal circle and cast a spell for a common intention.

You don't realise it, because you don't understand what magick is. You don't see that people are making magick all the time, through all their daily deeds, words and actions. The vast majority of those people themselves do not know that they are performing magick.

But if you actually read a book about magick, you WILL understand that this is all magick. Magick is all around us. Even the global practice of making a wish before blowing out the candles on your birthday cake is a magickal ritual (it stems from Wiccan candle magick).

And of course, there are more powerful and less powerful ways of making magick. There are more technical methods, and less technical methods. There are more effective and less effective methods.

Your example - "meditating on your desire for half an hour" - is simply ONE method of making magick, which is employed by people who KNOW that they are making magick, and set out to do it in a more systematic, focused and effective way.

But everyone makes magick.

Some people are inherently more powerful magicians than others, even if they do not know that they are magicians. What kind of person is naturally a more powerful magician? Some examples:

1. A person with strong determination
2. A person with intense emotions
3. A person who has a habit of concentrating deeply
4. A person who is highly focused on his goals
5. A person who is very clear about his intentions
6. A person who is very talented in any mode of self-expression (eg speaking, writing, music, art)

Now whenever a person practises anything in his life, which helps him to achieve, cultivate or develop any of those attributes, he is practising the LOA.

For example, you may work towards instilling habits of determination and discipline in yourself. Or you may motivate yourself to be focused on your goals. Or you may seek to acquire brilliant public speaking skills like Obama, able to rouse and motivate your audience with the way you express your ideas.

In all cases, you may be said to be practising the LOA.

Now you understand why some people are so powerful in shaping reality, even though they (presumably) know nothing about LOA or magick. They are powerful, natural creators.

Because they passionately believe whatever it is that they believe; because they are determined to achieve whatever it is that they wish to achieve; because their thoughts are free from distractions ....

their magick grows more and more powerful, and the universe bends itself to send the corresponding events, circumstances, resources, opportunities etc into their lives.

[SmartAlx]

Well then, if magick and the LoA take credit for every method we use to improve ourselves and stay positive (including Christian prayer) then there is no argument that one can say against it is there?

Except that we disagree that those things ARE magick and the LoA. You say they are magickal methods, but I disagree.

I could say that everything we do and say exists in one of Zeus's dreams. Of course, if you will permit me to predict what you will say, your natural response would be that I am welcome to believe whatever I want to believe and if it works for me then that's fine.

Would I be off track in guessing that might be one of your responses?

But 2 things. Just because I believe it doesn't make it true. And another thing, it being true for me and not true for anyone else doesn't allow my belief system to be what I think it is, a UNIVERSAL belief system. And the belief that each of us has an individual belief system that doesn't fit for anyone else also doesn't allow for yours to be a universal belief system either. Yet you are acting as if magick and the LoA are universal.

It's as if you feel that there is an overarching belief system that says each of us has a unique individual belief system and you won't accept anyone saying that this is not true. Oh you'll say they have a right to believe it (and I would agree with you) but your overarching belief over all belief systems still holds sway. You don't accept the idea that you might be wrong and the LoA and magick are bupkis. Just because someone believes something, that doesn't make their belief system true.

Believing does not create reality, contrary to popular opinion here. Belief is a response to a perception of reality. Belief is the effect, not the cause. If belief creates reality then every answer to any question about the LoA HAS to be "if that's your belief."

Do I have to meditate every day? "If that's your belief."

Is it okay if I don't meditate every day? "If that's your belief."

If I put a piece of paper with the number 8 written on it inside my wallet, will I get money? "If that's your belief."

Does 11:11 mean anything? "If that's your belief."

Will I find all if the answers to life's questions on this forum. "If that's your belief."

Can I come up with the answers on my own? "If that's your belief."

If all of that is true, then what good is this forum? Can't Steve just put up a sign on the front page in big fat red letters that says "believe what you want" and save us all the trouble of interracting on this forum?

"If that's your belief." LOL

Surely we get something more. "If that's your belief."

See? It gets pretty ridiculous. Kind of like a kid asking "why" to all of your answers. But that is the attitude you experts seem to have.

"If that's your belief."

Stop it Alex.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Except that we disagree that those things ARE magick and the LoA. You say they are magickal methods, but I disagree.

You only disagree, because you do not know what magick is. Or rather your idea of magick is drawn from your own sources and experiences.

And since you have never really looked into the topic with any depth, your sources and experiences are naturally quite shallow and limited in these aspects.

I could say that everything we do and say exists in one of Zeus's dreams.

And I could ask you what is the basis for you saying that.

And if you could actually give a proper reply, explaining your conceptual framework, offering your evidence, perhaps by quoting experts, or books, or web sites, I might even agree with you.

However, I suspect that you wouldn't be able to.

In fact, that is why you are yourself unconvinced about your very own Zeus theory. Right?

--------------------------------------

On the other hand, if you ask me, "Why do you say what you say about magick?", then I would reply:

"Well, don't take it from me. Why not do your own investigations, on what the topic is all about? For example, why not start by finding out the word magick means?."

Next I might invite you to read a book and check the meaning, or google and check the meaning of the word "magick". And after you check 10 or 12 different sources, then you would realise that there is a pretty standard definition of what magick is.

It simply means "the science and art of causing change in conformity with the will".

And once you think a bit further, you'll realise that all day long, everyone is doing magick. Every time a person has an intention (no matter how mundane and ordinary), and every time he seeks to cause change in line with his intention, that's magick. The person may or may not know it, but it's magick all the same.

And the more he approaches his own intention with a scientific / artistic outlook, the more skilful and conscious a magician he becomes. "Science" simply implying logic; research; technique; empirical evidence; underlying discernible principles; the existence of a system. While "art" connotes imagination; beauty; self-expression; special skills; emotion; inner vision; creativity.

That's pretty much it.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

If all of that is true, then what good is this forum?

LOL, it invites you to investigate your own thoughts and beliefs, of course.

[Acting Like Godot]

Just to recap the original question:

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Seems that practicing and learning techniques and gaining knowledge about the craft of I-M are the main focus points of this forum. This means that success with I-M is largely dependent on your skill. Am I right?

"Skill", you say .....

Sounds a bit like the "science and art" part of the definition.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

It simply means "the science and art of causing change in conformity with the will".

I think you left out a word: just.

It simply means "the science and art of causing change in conformity with JUST the will".

Sure there are tools (rituals, spells, etc.) but they are used to clarify and highlight the will itself.

This definition I absolutely do not support and I think it's pretty clear that "all day long, everyone is" NOT "doing magick," because they do not believe that the will alone is enough.

Again I say, just because your definition includes everything does not mean that it is true. I could say that everyone uses midiclorians when they do anything because without midiclorians we wouldn't even have the power to pick objects up since 99.9999% of the volume of an atom is a vaccuum and the atoms in my hand should pass right by the atoms of the apple I'm trying to pick up. I could say that midiclorians make it possible to pick the atoms of the apple because the midiclorians bind our atoms together. I could say it, but it wouldn't be true.

Just because one belief system describes the laws of the universe, it doesn't mean that everyone is using that belief system. That would ONLY be true if the belief system was correct and universal. No one has yet proven that magick is true and universal, and they never will. There might be circumstantial evidence that the activities of the proponents of magick do result in the desired outcomes, but the actual mechanics behind those outcomes have not been proven. A Christian believes that Satan causes those outcomes. So the Christian could say that everyone who knowingly uses magick then is in league with the devil. Does that belief make it true? No it doesn't. And neither the belief that my will alone is enough to affect reality. I have to act in concert with my will. I can't just sit on the couch to get rich. I have to make it happen.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

LOL, it invites you to investigate your own thoughts and beliefs, of course.

Well, wouldn't the phrase "BELIEVE WHAT YOU WILL" in giant bold red letters do the same thing?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Well, wouldn't the phrase "BELIEVE WHAT YOU WILL" in giant bold red letters do the same thing?

Not really.

There are many less-conscious people like yourself, who regard a belief as a response to reality, rather than a creation of reality itself.

It's a very human kind of response, and the Buddha has basically alluded to it as "ignorance of the true nature of reality".

An ignorance he explains as the cause of greed, anger, hate etc and ultimately of all the bad stuff in the universe.

You see, when you falsely see yourself as "here", and reality as "out there", disconnected and separate from yourself, that's when you start forming beliefs such as "I am vulnerable"; "The world is a dangerous place"; "Others are out to get me".

This builds up to beliefs that for the sake of your own survival, you need to defend yourself; attack others; accumulate resources etc and gives you an excuse to be unkind to others - because "others" are not "you".

Of course, we all suffer this kind of delusion to a greater or lesser extent. If we did not, we would be like Jesus or Buddha, overflowing with love and compassion for others, because we see that really, there ARE no others, and that we are all interconnected and together.

However, the less you are able to examine, challenge, pick and choose your own beliefs, the more you suffer from the delusion.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

This definition I absolutely do not support

Well, that does not surprise me.

After all, whether you accept the idea or not, depends on your own notions about magick.

And well, this is not an area where you have examined with any depth.

Your understanding of the topic would therefore be correspondingly shallow.

[SmartAlx]

So you are telling me that my beliefs are wrong.

[Acting Like Godot]

Heheh.

Actually it is you who has said that my belief is wrong. And what is your reason for saying so?

It is that my belief perfectly explains everything; cannot be refuted; and coherently accounts for every phenomena or occurrence you can think of.

According to you, it is therefore wrong.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

So you are telling me that my beliefs are wrong.

So what? And more interesting: what if it is true?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

I can't just sit on the couch to get rich. I have to make it happen.

I do sit on the couch and get rich.

I'm sorry that it doesn't work like that for you.

Two weeks ago, I sat on my couch and meditated. I asked for money. I said, "How nice it would be, if it were not just a few hundred, or a few thousand dollars. But something really, really big." I had no idea where the money would come from.

One week ago, a property agent showed up out of the blue, knocking on my door (he spoke to my wife - I was away). He said that he had a very interested buyer. My wife said, "We are not planning to sell at this time", but the agent was very persuasive, and finally my wife let him in, and allowed him to look around our place.

The next day, the property agent returned with a married couple, who came to view the place. They liked it very much.

Last night, the property agent came back again. He brought not only the same married couple, but three other families, all quite interested in the apartment. Tension started building up between the 4 families ... and well, let me put it this way, it looks like that there is a price bidding war for my apartment now.

I didn't do anything much last evening. I just went on sitting on the couch, chatting with my visitors and answering their questions. The price range that they are offering will enable me to make a profit of something in the region of $250,000.

I refuse to stop sitting on my couch. It's fun.

[cylon]

But how is that possible when everyone keeps saying "you can't sit on your couch and get rich"? People come by here all the time and flat out tell you that what you describe is impossible. Why won't you listen to them?

[Acting Like Godot]

Heheh, you know why.

To me, my personal, actual experiences must surely outweigh those other people's theories of the universe, especially when it's clear they have not rigorously examined their own theories at all.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Well, that does not surprise me.

After all, whether you accept the idea or not, depends on your own notions about magick.

And well, this is not an area where you have examined with any depth.

Your understanding of the topic would therefore be correspondingly shallow.

That's not what I asked.

So you are telling me that my beliefs are wrong.

Yes or no?

[Acting Like Godot]

You see, it's not a "yes or no" question.

It is, to you. But to me, it's not. The "correct" answer to the question depends simply on the asker's perspective. If the asker's perspective changes, then the "correct" answer also changes.

Nobel Prize-winning physicist David Bohm has examined these sorts of issues using fairly simple, understandable illustrations, to explore much deeper aspects of reality.

For example, Bohm notes that a circular disc, placed on a flat surface, never looks perfectly round, except when you view it directly from top-down. From ALL other angles, it appears oval, elliptical or simply like a flat line.

Why then should we describe the disc as round?

-------------

Thus there can be many right answers, depending on the perspectives chosen.

However, there ARE also wrong answers, for EACH perspective chosen. That part - you're not seeing yet.

[Acting Like Godot]

Latest news, hot off the press.

The agent just called. One couple has put their offer on the table - $568,000. I bought the place some years ago at $330,000, so this represents a profit of $235,000.

The outstanding amount of my mortgage is about $190,000. So if I sell at $568,000 and pay off the mortgage in full, I get $378,000 in hard cash.

I then have to move out and rent a place for about 18 months. By then, my other house, which I manifested last December and bought in March, and which is currently under construction, should be ready.

Question is whether I want to let my apartment go at $568,000, or whether I can get an even better price. Ahh, I love my kind of problems.

[cylon]

Money is a good thing. I think it deserves to have positive feelings about it. Maybe I'll start treating it like a friend.

Congrats ALG.

[velvet1]

Some people are not aware that the soul also makes plans when we come here. So, when a person says 'how come someone gets rape, when they didn't manifest it?'. The soul made the plan/arrangements for a learning purpose. Now, the ego on the other hand can also manifest money/wealth/and material. We have the will to choose what we want, but the soul also made its plan.

I know for sure that some people have an easier time, manifesting things. For other it takes time/practice until they master it. It takes time/dedication until you see the results.

I have an easier time, healing my body and also other people. I manifest any body ache or body problems to go away and it does. I don't know how, but I just know that I have that ability.

[velvet1]

Originally Posted by cylon

But how is that possible when everyone keeps saying "you can't sit on your couch and get rich"? People come by here all the time and flat out tell you that what you describe is impossible. Why won't you listen to them?

Because we are made to believe that you have to work really hard to find money or get money. When in reality we don't and if you sit on the couch people consider you lazy. If you believe that you can get anything without stepping out of your house, you can. When it comes to others, they might contradict your beliefs.

[Acting Like Godot]

More news, hot off the press.

Agent called again. Because we had not accepted immediately, the same couple has upped their offer, from $568,000 to $575,000. I think they're afraid we might sell to the other interested buyers.

The couple do say that this is their final offer. We have asked them for more time to think about it.

[Acting Like Godot]

I just checked a government website. It gives the prices of property transactions around the country. There is a search engine which allows you to specify parameters.

The price now being offered for my apartment is higher than the highest price actually transacted this year, for apartments of roughly the same size, in my neighbourhood.

[Acting Like Godot]

Ugh ... This is tough. I wasn't planning on moving so soon.

I need to meditate on this one.

Back to the couch.