The chicken and the egg

[lightdancing]

Hi All,

Do any of you who have observed the LOA in your lives ever wonder about which came first - the energy which creates manifestion or the intention to manifest?

I ask because time has never seemed completely linear to me. At times, the present and what appears to be the future do not seem separate to me.
I can "know" ahead of time things that are going to happen. This has happened so often that even my husband, who was an absolute disbeliever, now takes this capacity for granted.

It makes me suspect that the conditions for future events are already in place now, but they are not visible through the usual 5 senses.

I was once into LOA, but it got to the point to where I felt I really wasn't the one manifesting. I used to joke to a friend that, if I am drawn to do any process of manifesting, it was because the energy that creates the manifestation was already here, and my motions were just part of that energy. And when I performed the process, that I was just going along for the ride.

What do you think?

[SmartAlx]

So you basically have no free will.

[lightdancing]

Thanks for your reply.

I think that is a key point, SmartAlx.

But I don't see what I am describing as a helpless, confined and trapped thing. Instead, there is more of a flowing, everything-is-interconnected sense.

I am looking at this...freedom of choice - how vast or limited is it?

[lightdancing]

So say you have the desire to manifest something. Did you put the desire there?

Can you turn the desire to manifest off?

If you did turn the desire off, would it be because of the desire to not manifest was stronger?

And if that is the case, did you put the desire or lack of interest there?

Or did you just act out the desire or lack of interest?

[Zas]

A lot of people talk about manifesting as "going with the flow." To me, it feels like desires started even before this part of me became this physical thing. I mean, with friends born into abusive situations or with hereditary disorders, it feels like there's like some deeper pattern at work if I'm humoring the concept of others being just as "real" as me.

It feels like there's something "deeper" to me than just the surface I experienced as a hardcore dogmatic atheist. But I don't know if that deeper thing is like a deeper me unit among all non-physical force or if it's like a deeper force equally shared by everyone and everything.

Maybe I'll learn when I die, maybe not, heh.

[lightdancing]

Originally Posted by Zas

A lot of people talk about manifesting as "going with the flow." To me, it feels like desires started even before this part of me became this physical thing. I mean, with friends born into abusive situations or with hereditary disorders, it feels like there's like some deeper pattern at work if I'm humoring the concept of others being just as "real" as me.

lol yes, there's that.

It's interesting to hear that manifesting is often described as "going with the flow."

Originally Posted by Zas

It feels like there's something "deeper" to me than just the surface I experienced as a hardcore dogmatic atheist. But I don't know if that deeper thing is like a deeper me unit among all non-physical force or if it's like a deeper force equally shared by everyone and everything..

Maybe I'll learn when I die, maybe not, heh.

Exactly, lol.

Interesting that you were a hardcore dogmatic atheist. I was brought in a religious Catholic environment. Maybe you know of the type, where you are taught to be afraid of hell should you not have faith? .

Thanks for your observations, Zas. This is fun

[Wax Frog]

Sometimes I have almost scared myself trying to figure out where my thoughts come from. I mean, if I "decide" to have a thought, that decision itself is still a thought from beyond "me". If I assume that each thought is generated by the ones that precede it, in some fashion I cannot percieve, I am still stuck on the problem of where the first thought came from.

To put it a different way, but still inadequately, I cannot think of a pink elephant until I think of a pink elephant; but if I can't think of a pink elephant before I think of a pink elephant, please tell me how I can think of a pink elephant at all!!!! Alternatively, if linear time is illusory, then 1) what was the genesis of the pink elephant thought template and 2) how is the trick of partitioning this original pink elephant template from all the other templates managed?

Oh, my brain hurts sometimes...

[themaster]

Originally Posted by lightdancing

It makes me suspect that the conditions for future events are already in place now, but they are not visible through the usual 5 senses.

I was once into LOA, but it got to the point to where I felt I really wasn't the one manifesting. I used to joke to a friend that, if I am drawn to do any process of manifesting, it was because the energy that creates the manifestation was already here, and my motions were just part of that energy. And when I performed the process, that I was just going along for the ride.

Well, it's my understanding time is a illusion.. what does that mean.. translate?

It means everything is going on right now.. birth, death, future, past etc.

Your joke to your friend sounds much like the truth.. all manifestation can be shall we say instant or planned for it's perfect timing in the linear framework.. it's nice that your able to tap in and know what you're planning.. good for you

[lightdancing]

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

Oh, my brain hurts sometimes...

LOL! Hi Wax Frog.

I hear ya. I used to do that a lot and my brain would hurt too, lol. Sometimes I still ponder, like now, but it's more just the mind going out for a walk and exercising, enjoying the brisk breeze, and keeping the gears greased. - Because it can and because that's what it does.

And there is also the joy of connecting with members of the forum.

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

Sometimes I have almost scared myself trying to figure out where my thoughts come from. I mean, if I "decide" to have a thought, that decision itself is still a thought from beyond "me".

Yeah, I think sometimes there is a part in me that says "What?? you mean I am not in control?" lol. Control is a nice idea...How real is it?

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

I mean, if I "decide" to have a thought, that decision itself is still a thought from beyond "me". If I assume that each thought is generated by the ones that precede it, in some fashion I cannot percieve, I am still stuck on the problem of where the first thought came from. ....

To put it a different way, but still inadequately, I cannot think of a pink elephant until I think of a pink elephant; but if I can't think of a pink elephant before I think of a pink elephant, please tell me how I can think of a pink elephant at all!!!!

LOL. Our minds work in very similar ways, Wax Frog.

Thanks for the reply.

[lightdancing]

Hello, TheMaster . Thanks for reply.

As can be seen, my mind comes up with many questions. And I hope the questions I ask don't make anyone feel "put on the spot". I am just asking the same questions I would ask of myself. If any questions don't work for you, please just ignore them .

Originally Posted by themaster

Well, it's my understanding time is a illusion.. what does that mean.. translate?

It means everything is going on right now.. birth, death, future, past etc.

Does that idea make sense to you? And does it need to make sense to you? By that, I mean, is it something you can accept on faith or feeling?

If it does make sense to you, can you see direct evidence in your life that this is the case?

If so, can you give exampes?

Thanks.

[themaster]

I'm assuming here the subject is "time is a illusion, all things are going on right now"

Does that idea make sense to you?

Yes, in a way

And does it need to make sense to you?

Nope

By that, I mean, is it something you can accept on faith or feeling?

Uhuh

If it does make sense to you, can you see direct evidence in your life that this is the case?

Yes

If so, can you give exampes?

Examples of what exactly.. examples that work for me and my understandings or examples that work for all understanding.. and examples of what?

I mean your questions are very general and not very specific.. I get the feeling you're talking about something else.. because the subject is not very clear to me..

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by lightdancing

LOL. Our minds work in very similar ways, Wax Frog. Thanks for the reply.

Ah, finally! One of my own kind I look forward to further exchanges, and seeing what goodies you can extract from the 'lay-gurus' here...

[lightdancing]

Hi TheMaster,

Now I have a clearer picture of how you are seeing this, thank you. And that is, although this idea is not understandable, you feel comfortable in accepting it on faith and/or feeling.

Originally Posted by themaster

If so, can you give exampes?

Examples of what exactly.. examples that work for me and my understandings or examples that work for all understanding.. and examples of what?

I mean your questions are very general and not very specific.. I get the feeling you're talking about something else.. because the subject is not very clear to me..

I'm glad you asked for clarification, TheMaster. Let's see if I can make this clearer - often a challenge for me lol.

Say I have the belief that people see things differently. The evidence I see in my life includes the encounters I have with people. My husband and I sometimes see politics differently for instance. And the differences between the viewpoints of members in each political party are glaringly obvious on TV political talk shows. If anyone disagreed with my stated belief above, that is evidence right there that people see things differently lol.

Originally Posted by themaster

It means everything is going on right now.. birth, death, future, past etc

I take this idea to mean that everything is happening simultaneously. If that's not correct, please clarify. In case my understanding correct, I'll proceed as if it is. If it isn't we'll start anew .

Originally Posted by themaster

can you see direct evidence in your life that this is the case?

Yes

Can you write about the examples you have seen directly occuring in your life where the future and the past, beginnings and ends, are all happening simultaneously?

[lightdancing]

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

Ah, finally! One of my own kind

Lol, yes. That's how I felt too - instant recognition.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by lightdancing

Can you write about the examples you have seen directly occuring in your life where the future and the past, beginnings and ends, are all happening simultaneously?

Nope, I have no examples to give..

I only have a "knowing" of what is the truth..

I currently only have the conscious ability to change the world through the thing/illusion we call "linear time" how most of us use LOA.. I've seen manifestations in 3-5 minutes but that's the best I've seen that I can remember

Originally Posted by lightdancing

I take this idea to mean that everything is happening simultaneously. If that's not correct, please clarify. In case my understanding correct, I'll proceed as if it is. If it isn't we'll start anew .

This is correct.. my teacher has a idea called the "Prime Radiant" if that would help you understand.. it is more a idea of the fundamentals of us as individuals and us as the one

Originally Posted by lightdancing

Say I have the belief that people see things differently. The evidence I see in my life includes the encounters I have with people. My husband and I sometimes see politics differently for instance. And the differences between the viewpoints of members in each political party are glaringly obvious on TV political talk shows. If anyone disagreed with my stated belief above, that is evidence right there that people see things differently lol.

Yes, we do but at the core any issue (according to my teacher) can be brought down to a level of full understanding.. mostly people arguing on our TV about politics would mostly be arguing about "fear" based ideas or "fear sells" to stay elected yes?

There is a idea out there called "The power of the illusion and the illusion of power" I can explain some of this if you are interested?

[lightdancing]

Originally Posted by themaster

There is a idea out there called "The power of the illusion and the illusion of power" I can explain some of this if you are interested?

I like that! I can see it in my life.

Any time there is emotional resistance, the foundation of that resistance is based on the conviction that the resistance itself should be enough to stop what is being resisted, which, when I look at it, is pretty silly lol (the illusion of power).

And I've noticed that emotional resistance has nothing to do with what is being resisted. Instead, the resistance is based on a mental story about a thing or situation, and this mental story happens to be mistaken for the truth. (the power of illusion.)

Is this something similar to what you are seeing in the idea "The power of illusion and the illusion of power"?

If I am on the wrong track here, please describe the track this idea addresses and add on as necessary .

I am particularly interested in how this idea applies to LOA. So if you can show how they are interconnected, that would be great!

Originally Posted by themaster

Nope, I have no examples to give..

I only have a "knowing" of what is the truth..

I currently only have the conscious ability to change the world through the thing/illusion we call "linear time" how most of us use LOA.. I've seen manifestations in 3-5 minutes but that's the best I've seen that I can remember

Gotcha.

And I've seen simultaneous coincidences in my life, which is what used to "hurt my brain" as Wax Frog said, lol.

Originally Posted by themaster

mostly people arguing on our TV about politics would mostly be arguing about "fear" based ideas or "fear sells" to stay elected yes?

Yes, it seems what you describe is based on fear.

Originally Posted by lightdancing

Say I have the belief that people see things differently

Originally Posted by themaster

Yes, we do but at the core any issue (according to my teacher) can be brought down to a level of full understanding..

If that is true, can your teacher explain in a fully understandable way, the core issue of everything happening simultaneously?

My thinking, which may be wrong, is that LOA is based on cause and affect. There must be a cause (manifesting) and an affect (manifestation).
The cause happens first, the effect happens aftwards.

If my understanding is correct, and if everything happens simultaneously as you believe, how does the LOA fit in?

Thanks, LaMaster.

[rei]

i have sometimes wondered, when i energize a potential and it unfolds in my experience - did i really manifest it through intention, or did i have like a precognitive moment, knowing or tapping into the way that 'future' moment was going to unfold?

the last time this happened (about a week ago, linearly speaking ), i was expecting a package and i expressed the intention for the UPS truck to appear before the end of that day's shift. i did this right before i went to walk my dog, and as soon as i got to the end of the street i heard, then saw, the UPS truck. did i make it happen, or did i tap into that reality that was already on its way?

lightdancing, is this an aspect of your question?

[Landi Star]

Originally Posted by rei

i have sometimes wondered, when i energize a potential and it unfolds in my experience - did i really manifest it through intention, or did i have like a precognitive moment, knowing or tapping into the way that 'future' moment was going to unfold?

the last time this happened (about a week ago, linearly speaking ), i was expecting a package and i expressed the intention for the UPS truck to appear before the end of that day's shift. i did this right before i went to walk my dog, and as soon as i got to the end of the street i heard, then saw, the UPS truck. did i make it happen, or did i tap into that reality that was already on its way?

--
For a long time that didn’t matter to me (esp if it’s a good thing that manifests), though I’ve always strongly favored the intention-manifestation explanation. Now I choose to NOT believe in the psychic-“precognition” explanation. This is the most empowering stance in my view.

For example, if I have a negative thought about a situation’s outcome (and the negative feeling that comes with it), instead of thinking that I might be “pre-cognizing” something, I take responsibility for the thought or image I’m conjuring, brush it off, and take responsibility for getting back to my positive intention, or intending the good outcome I want.

-

[lightdancing]

Hi Rei Thanks for chiming in.

Originally Posted by rei

i have sometimes wondered, when i energize a potential and it unfolds in my experience - did i really manifest it through intention, or did i have like a precognitive moment, knowing or tapping into the way that 'future' moment was going to unfold?

the last time this happened (about a week ago, linearly speaking ), i was expecting a package and i expressed the intention for the UPS truck to appear before the end of that day's shift. i did this right before i went to walk my dog, and as soon as i got to the end of the street i heard, then saw, the UPS truck. did i make it happen, or did i tap into that reality that was already on its way?

lightdancing, is this an aspect of your question?

Yes, exactly.

For instance, at one point in my life through what appeared to be totally unrelated circumstances, it became totally clear in every ounce of my being that what I really wanted in life was someone to share my life with. That was all.

And coincidentally there was my husband-to-be. It was unmistakeable. The list goes on...but you get the point.

I wasn't intentionally doing any LOA practices. I didn't even know about them at the time. And after I started practicing lol, I ended up with the same wonderings you are expressing very clearly.

[lightdancing]

Greetings Landi Star

Originally Posted by Landi Star

For a long time that didn’t matter to me (esp if it’s a good thing that manifests), though I’ve always strongly favored the intention-manifestation explanation. Now I choose to NOT believe in the psychic-“precognition” explanation. This is the most empowering stance in my view.

For example, if I have a negative thought about a situation’s outcome (and the negative feeling that comes with it), instead of thinking that I might be “pre-cognizing” something, I take responsibility for the thought or image I’m conjuring, brush it off, and take responsibility for getting back to my positive intention, or intending the good outcome I want.

Looking at a situation deeply and openly as you have done can be very helpful in deciding what works for us. Kudos to you for finding what works for you.

And the continuation of that open looking in the moment is beautiful to me -
which makes it fun lol. The looking is its own balance.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Landi Star

--
For a long time that didn’t matter to me (esp if it’s a good thing that manifests), though I’ve always strongly favored the intention-manifestation explanation. Now I choose to NOT believe in the psychic-“precognition” explanation. This is the most empowering stance in my view.

For example, if I have a negative thought about a situation’s outcome (and the negative feeling that comes with it), instead of thinking that I might be “pre-cognizing” something, I take responsibility for the thought or image I’m conjuring, brush it off, and take responsibility for getting back to my positive intention, or intending the good outcome I want.

-

Landi, it ultimately doesn't matter to me either. the outcome is more important - at least in this case - than knowing with certainty whether i made it happen or knew it would happen.

yes, regarding the negative thoughts, i do think it is possible to ... correct the waveform. i do believe we can change what is 'meant' to happen with a strong enough intention (though... not always... i believe the things important for soul lessons will come to us one way or another). but i do think i have had these 'precog' things with the negative ones too.

example... i was leaving my then-town of residence to meet family for christmas. shortly after i got on the interstate, i had a split-second gut feeling related to my apartment. it was not fully formed enough to create an intention or a potential. and it came out of nowhere (i am not the type to regularly think toward worst-case-scenarios, so this was out of character for me). i was behind schedule so i just kept going. when i returned to my then-town of residence, i discovered an acquaintance had broken into my apartment and ransacked it over the holidays. (i didn't know who did it at that point, but the person ended up in jail later.) did this happen because i made it happen, or did i tap into the future? since there was nothing more specific than a feeling related to leaving that town, i don't think i made this happen. i think it was basically a premonition.

Originally Posted by lightdancing

Hi Rei Thanks for chiming in.

Yes, exactly.

For instance, at one point in my life through what appeared to be totally unrelated circumstances, it became totally clear in every ounce of my being that what I really wanted in life was someone to share my life with. That was all.

And coincidentally there was my husband-to-be. It was unmistakeable. The list goes on...but you get the point.

I wasn't intentionally doing any LOA practices. I didn't even know about them at the time. And after I started practicing lol, I ended up with the same wonderings you are expressing very clearly.

you're welcome lightdancing.
i think this is basically an academic question, more for your own curiosity than anything else. my own opinion is that it really doesn't matter whether we make it happen or tap into the potential that's on its way already. i like how LOA work teaches us to focus our thoughts on what we would actually want to happen. either way, it's a gift. precognition is a gift, and being able to use a cosmic law to attract what we want is a blessing too.

so my point is, i am not sure you really *need* to know which thing is happening. instead, express gratitude for the things you like and the universe will send more of it to you!

with practice, i think we can tell the difference too. i think some things happen because of intention, others we tap into. i can't really explain how they are different, but i think they are.

p.s. just so we are all clear, including the universe, the example i provided has already happened, is completely over, and has reached a full and lasting resolution. and so it is.

[lightdancing]

Originally Posted by rei

you're welcome lightdancing.
i think this is basically an academic question, more for your own curiosity.

Exactly lol. It is for the fun of hearing input from everyone who practices the LOA and who found this thread interesting enough to reply to. I'm interested in seeing what you see and what keeps you involved. .

And it was great fun encountering people who had the same thoughts I have had.

And when members here offer to answer my questions or to help me understand something offered that I find confusing, such as how 2 apparently contradictory ideas dovetail - the law of attraction which implies time intervals between happenings, and the idea that TheMaster has provided us - EHS (shortcut for everything happening simulateously ) I'm tickled pink.

Originally Posted by rei

my own opinion is that it really doesn't matter whether we make it happen or tap into the potential that's on its way already. i like how LOA work teaches us to focus our thoughts on what we would actually want to happen. either way, it's a gift. precognition is a gift, and being able to use a cosmic law to attract what we want is a blessing too.

so my point is, i am not sure you really *need* to know which thing is happening. instead, express gratitude for the things you like and the universe will send more of it to you!

with practice, i think we can tell the difference too. i think some things happen because of intention, others we tap into. i can't really explain how they are different, but i think they are.

p.s. just so we are all clear, including the universe, the example i provided has already happened, is completely over, and has reached a full and lasting resolution. and so it is.

Very clear, Rei. Thanks so much for offering what you see.

Landi Star and you have referred to precognition which got me thinking again... In addition to finding out more about the LOA, I was also questioning if precognition exists. I don't know that it does, at least in the way I used to think about it.

[Landi Star]

--
rei… thanks for your reply and your (and lightdancing’s) insightful thoughts. I haven’t had time to read everything in this thread (I’m soo busy!), but for now, here (below) is a little something I wrote earlier in response to something lightdancing wrote earlier.

Originally Posted by lightdancing

...And I've noticed that emotional resistance has nothing to do with what is being resisted. Instead, the resistance is based on a mental story about a thing or situation, and this mental story happens to be mistaken for the truth. (the power of illusion.)

It’s all about the stories we tell ourselves and how we feel when we tell them! If a story (or an interpretation of an event) doesn’t feel good or feels “non-beneficial” to you or the other, then it’s probably best to let it go or revise it.

The more “stories” we tell ourselves that feel good and jibe with our preferred future, or the outcomes we want in situations, the more likely things will go our way!

.

[rei]

Originally Posted by lightdancing

Exactly lol. It is for the fun of hearing input from everyone who practices the LOA and who found this thread interesting enough to reply to. I'm interested in seeing what you see and what keeps you involved. .

And it was great fun encountering people who had the same thoughts I have had.

And when members here offer to answer my questions or to help me understand something offered that I find confusing, such as how 2 apparently contradictory ideas dovetail - the law of attraction which implies time intervals between happenings, and the idea that TheMaster has provided us - EHS (shortcut for everything happening simulateously ) I'm tickled pink.

Very clear, Rei. Thanks so much for offering what you see.

Landi Star and you have referred to precognition which got me thinking again... In addition to finding out more about the LOA, I was also questioning if precognition exists. I don't know that it does, at least in the way I used to think about it.

i also believe all things happen simultaneously from another level. linear time is a collective illusion, constructed to assign more order to the flow of our experiences here. but ultimately it is not real. 'past lives' are occurring at the same moment of any 'future' experience (this example only makes sense if you believe in multiple incarnations, which i personally find more logical than the 'one shot' view, plus i am aware of some incarnations that happened for my spirit in another version of 'now' - it is all 'now'.)

you are welcome, happy to contribute ideas that might seem useful, even if it is mainly for curiosity.

about precognition... i think anything is possible. humans have only recently (at least in Western culture) tapped into the potential of consciousness. eastern ideas have acknowledged this for some time, but in the west it is still a young concept.

things that can't be explained rationally happen every linear day. i believe things like precognition and psychic ability are accessible to all of us. it is a matter of whether we choose to acknowledge those potentials. that doesn't mean it is possible or impossible, it's one or the other based on our beliefs. our natural state is one of limitlessness and expansion, each human develops ideas (which become beliefs) that either support this truth or clash with it. we have amazing power as co-creators of our experience, with all that power, to me it is only logical that we can tap into abilities that can't be rationally understood. even a skeptic can be precognitive, if the skeptic releases the associated limiting beliefs. this is how i see things anyway.

many of these gifts can't be 'proven' empirically because that is not how things work. it's like trying to pin down the identity of an ultimate source for all that exists. such things are not meant to satisfy the burden of proof, because it doesn't need to be proved. it's there, it happens, but it is up to us, with our free will, to acknowledge it or not. besides, i also believe the brain dies with the physical form (unless we achieve physical immortality, which i do believe is within the realm of possibility)... but the energetic heart is eternal. the physical heart is discarded, not the energetic one. the energetic heart doesn't need proof.

ok, started to ramble. that's where i stand on these things... i would imagine discarding the possibility of precognition is an unnecessary limitation on your true nature.

[lightdancing]

Originally Posted by Landi Star

--
rei… thanks for your reply and your (and lightdancing’s) insightful thoughts. I haven’t had time to read everything in this thread (I’m soo busy!), but for now, here (below) is a little something I wrote earlier in response to something lightdancing wrote earlier.



It’s all about the stories we tell ourselves and how we feel when we tell them! If a story (or an interpretation of an event) doesn’t feel good or feels “non-beneficial” to you or the other, then it’s probably best to let it go or revise it.

The more “stories” we tell ourselves that feel good and jibe with our preferred future, or the outcomes we want in situations, the more likely things will go our way!

.

That seems to describe the essence of the LOA philosophy very concisely for me. Thank you Landi Star. I'll take this understanding with me.

[lightdancing]

I enjoyed your "ramblings" thoroughly, Rei.

Originally Posted by rei

i also believe all things happen simultaneously from another level. linear time is a collective illusion, constructed to assign more order to the flow of our experiences here. but ultimately it is not real. 'past lives' are occurring at the same moment of any 'future' experience (this example only makes sense if you believe in multiple incarnations, which i personally find more logical than the 'one shot' view, plus i am aware of some incarnations that happened for my spirit in another version of 'now' - it is all 'now'.)

Gotcha. Thanks for explaining how you can see the idea of EHS co-existing with linear time.

Originally Posted by rei

about precognition... i think anything is possible. humans have only recently (at least in Western culture) tapped into the potential of consciousness. eastern ideas have acknowledged this for some time, but in the west it is still a young concept.

things that can't be explained rationally happen every linear day. i believe things like precognition and psychic ability are accessible to all of us. it is a matter of whether we choose to acknowledge those potentials. that doesn't mean it is possible or impossible, it's one or the other based on our beliefs. our natural state is one of limitlessness and expansion, each human develops ideas (which become beliefs) that either support this truth or clash with it. we have amazing power as co-creators of our experience, with all that power, to me it is only logical that we can tap into abilities that can't be rationally understood. even a skeptic can be precognitive, if the skeptic releases the associated limiting beliefs. this is how i see things anyway.

many of these gifts can't be 'proven' empirically because that is not how things work. it's like trying to pin down the identity of an ultimate source for all that exists. such things are not meant to satisfy the burden of proof, because it doesn't need to be proved. it's there, it happens, but it is up to us, with our free will, to acknowledge it or not. besides, i also believe the brain dies with the physical form (unless we achieve physical immortality, which i do believe is within the realm of possibility)... but the energetic heart is eternal. the physical heart is discarded, not the energetic one. the energetic heart doesn't need proof.

ok, started to ramble. that's where i stand on these things... i would imagine discarding the possibility of precognition is an unnecessary limitation on your true nature.

I see.

I used to look at precognition as seeing something in the future. Now I just see it as being aware of something in the present.

Like if you have a cactus in your backyard, the roots of which travel underground and shoot up again as new cactuses in various places.

If you can't see the roots, you won't know where the second cactus is going to pop up.

But if you can see the roots travel horizontally underground and turn upward until they are just below the ground's surface, you can accurately point out where the next cactus shoot will arise.

I can't know that that is true. It just reflects more accurately how I currently see things.

[rei]

Originally Posted by lightdancing

I enjoyed your "ramblings" thoroughly, Rei.

Gotcha. Thanks for explaining how you can see the idea of EHS co-existing with linear time.

I see.

I used to look at precognition as seeing something in the future. Now I just see it as being aware of something in the present.

Like if you have a cactus in your backyard, the roots of which travel underground and shoot up again as new cactuses in various places.

If you can't see the roots, you won't know where the second cactus is going to pop up.

But if you can see the roots travel horizontally underground and turn upward until they are just below the ground's surface, you can accurately point out where the next cactus shoot will arise.

I can't know that that is true. It just reflects more accurately how I currently see things.

i really like your explanation for precognition lightdancing. 'precognition' isn't even a good word for it, because that implies a future. when really, as you say, it is awareness of a moment that we are attracting to us.

this has been such an interesting discussion, thanks to all for the opportunity

[lightdancing]

Thank you SmartAlx, Zas, Wax Frog, TheMaster, Landi Star, and Rei for giving me your input.

I feel very satisfied with all the replies I got. Am moving on now as this inquiry was more about discovery than about setting up camp.

I've had a beautiful experience here inquiring into your beliefs and hearing you graciously share them. I love your energy.

Take care and happy manifesting.

Love

[Landi Star]

.
Thank you for your replies to my posts and all you’ve shared here. Funny thing, I had not noticed your first reply [quoted below] to my first post in this thread untill now!

Originally Posted by lightdancing

Greetings Landi Star

Looking at a situation deeply and openly as you have done can be very helpful in deciding what works for us. Kudos to you for finding what works for you.

And the continuation of that open looking in the moment is beautiful to me -
which makes it fun lol. The looking is its own balance.

That’s an important point… Finding out what works for us… what resonates with our unique beings… what brings us peace, joy, fulfillment and helps us create the life we want.

I admire that you are exploring deeply with an open mind, and are so welcoming and receptive to everyone’s sharing.

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[themaster]

Originally Posted by lightdancing

I like that! I can see it in my life.

Any time there is emotional resistance, the foundation of that resistance is based on the conviction that the resistance itself should be enough to stop what is being resisted, which, when I look at it, is pretty silly lol (the illusion of power).

And I've noticed that emotional resistance has nothing to do with what is being resisted. Instead, the resistance is based on a mental story about a thing or situation, and this mental story happens to be mistaken for the truth. (the power of illusion.)

Is this something similar to what you are seeing in the idea "The power of illusion and the illusion of power"?

If I am on the wrong track here, please describe the track this idea addresses and add on as necessary .

I am particularly interested in how this idea applies to LOA. So if you can show how they are interconnected, that would be great!

You may have it right.. I don't typically think of the idea of illusion of power with internal things.. I usually think of it.. with the idea of our world and it's structure.. I will put my teachers words in here so you can see what you think about it..

Understand that your communication type and mine are not exactly compatible.. so you make it hard for me to answer in basics.. the language I'm into.. I just have a hard time with some philosophy concepts or concepts that sound more like they are making the understanding of REALITY.. COMPLEX for I like to keep it simple!

Originally Posted by lightdancing

If that is true, can your teacher explain in a fully understandable way, the core issue of everything happening simultaneously?

My thinking, which may be wrong, is that LOA is based on cause and effect. There must be a cause (manifesting) and an affect (manifestation).
The cause happens first, the effect happens aftwards.

If my understanding is correct, and if everything happens simultaneously as you believe, how does the LOA fit in?

Thanks, LaMaster.

Everything you want is created instantaneously.. but in this reality we constructed; we created the illusion of time/space or linear time.. so the idea is we don't get what we want instantaneously, we have to wait for our illusion of time to bring it to us

If we can however short circuit these rules.. then they need not apply and there is a short circuit process too

You would say that the short circuit had been applied when a person fell 900 story's and lived or should have been crushed by that wall/building but was found alive and restored Basically I would call almost anything we label a miracle (depends on the labeler ) a short circuit..

These are the 4 rules of all realities (not just this one.. perhaps it will help)
1. You exist.
2. The all are the 1, the 1 is the all.
3. What you put out is what you get back. <--- Also called law of attraction
4. Everything changes except the first 3 laws.