Did anyone watch the Simpsons today?

[Desmond]

On today's episode (Bart Gets a 'Z') there was a self help book/DVD called "The Answer" which to me sounds a lot like "The Secret."

Did anybody else notice this? Discuss.

[velvet1]

I saw only half of it, but yes it said that it was called "the answer". Which I thought it was really funny, specially the trailer they made for it and it was kind of the same as the secret. I kind of got impression that the message they were trying to say is that the secret doesn't work, because the teacher shredded the book. It was something that I got while watching half of it.

[SmartAlx]

I didn't catch it but I'm definitely looking forward to it. If what you are saying is true, it confirms my love of The Simpsons. Disfunctional as they are, in the end they do teach about good wholesome family values.

Except for Lisa.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

I didn't catch it but I'm definitely looking forward to it. If what you are saying is true, it confirms my love of The Simpsons. Disfunctional as they are, in the end they do teach about good wholesome family values.

Except for Lisa.

The Simpsons and good wholesome family values, WOW! I have never thought of the two being in the same sentence before! LOL

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Gene

The Simpsons and good wholesome family values, WOW! I have never thought of the two being in the same sentence before! LOL

I was thinking the same. Where is this person coming from to see the Simpsons as positive role models? D'oh!

[Andrew Brunelle]

I saw the episode, yes. I hardly watch The Simpsons anymore, but every time I watch them I still find them entertaining. Even though they've been around for over 20 years, they still have a lot to offer.

[Betrade]

I've never watched The Simpsons and probably never will. I just can't stand to even take a quick peek at that show. It annoys me for some reason.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Gene

The Simpsons and good wholesome family values, WOW! I have never thought of the two being in the same sentence before! LOL

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I was thinking the same. Where is this person coming from to see the Simpsons as positive role models? D'oh!

They aren't Family Guy or South Park, shoot... nor King of the Hill. Now THAT show has some terrible lessons in it. But The Simpsons is generally fairly positive. Yes, there is an anti-male bias... Homer and Bart are idiots while Marge, Lisa, and Maggie are all brilliant. But in general their lifestyle is actually quite good. Both husband and wife are loving and completely devoted to each other. Both Marge and Homer have dealt with infidelity and neither was unfaithful. They repeatedly reaffirm their love for each other. And they care for their children deeply. They do a fantastic job of teaching their hellraiser of a child good values. Did you ever see the Episode where Bart kills the mother bird? How about when he gets caught shoplifting? Or when he gets the principal fired? I thought not. Plus Marge and Homer are tolerant, if not supportive, of Lisa's Vegan, Buddhist, Feminist, Bohemian lifestyle.

If you don't understand my view then you either don't watch the show or you don't know what good family values are.

*Edit*
I just saw the Episode. God bless Hulu.
Cheese! If any show exemplifies the Simpson values it's got to be this one. Bart struggles with his identity as a good person! Come on! Forget your bias towards The Secret for a minute and focus on the values in the episode. If you saw this episode you must notice how good Bart really is on the inside. He does end up doing the right thing.

[Zas]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

If you don't understand my view then you either don't watch the show or you don't know what good family values are.

This sentence is very warm/amusing to read. I feel that it sums up the general theme of your posts.

[SmartAlx]

I didn't say you had to agree with it. I said you should understand it.

[Zas]

I didn't mean to imply that you said that. Definitely though, a hope for mutual understanding is something that appeals to me as well.

[JMonkey]

I haven't read the book yet, but I certainly won't let The Simpsons (which I do enjoy) dictate whether I do or not.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I was thinking the same. Where is this person coming from to see the Simpsons as positive role models? D'oh!

Haha ...

I would be both terrified and anguished, if my children turned out to be like Bart Simpson.

I most definitely do not think that Bart is a positive role model (although I do enjoy the show for its zany humour).


Bart Simpson - a paragon of honesty, courage and good behaviour. Not.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Haha ...

I would be both terrified and anguished, if my children turned out to be like Bart Simpson.

Well lucky for you that your kids aren't like him. You are obviously not a parent like Marge and Homer.

I most definitely do not think that Bart is a positive role model (although I do enjoy the show for its zany humour).

BART is not intended to be a positive role model. Bart is an allegory of the nature of all mankind. He is an exploration of the duality of good and evil and a lesson that good triumphs. He is constantly struggling with temptation and having to deal with the consequences of his sinful tendencies. It's actually quite Christian in its nature. He always (and by extention we) learn(s) a valuable life lesson, although it's rarely spelled out "I learned something today" South Park style.

[Ace22]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

BART is not intended to be a positive role model. Bart is an allegory of the nature of all mankind. He is an exploration of the duality of good and evil and a lesson that good triumphs. He is constantly struggling with temptation and having to deal with the consequences of his sinful tendencies. It's actually quite Christian in its nature. He always (and by extention we) learn(s) a valuable life lesson, although it's rarely spelled out "I learned something today" South Park style.

Wow you stole the words write from my keyboard. BART hasn't turned out to be anything yet. If you have kids, they probably act like bart just on a smaller scale. I know people that have kids that make Bart look like an altar boy. But Bart's character is about becoming, not arriving. Isn't that what the story of life in these meat jackets is about? Becoming, not arriving?

[impaul99]

I used to watch Simpsons when it first came out.

I don't watch it anymore though...what annoys me about the show is that there is no progression. I mean Bart should be OLD by now. It's like watching Groundhog Day... 20 years later, Bart is still in elementary school.

Yet, somehow they've had 20 Halloween's and 20 Christmas's since the show started... I know, it's a cartoon, but still...

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Ace22

Isn't that what the story of life in these meat jackets is about? Becoming, not arriving?

Sure ...

But the topic is "positive role models".

I am not able to say that all meat jackets are positive role models. Everyboyd can be said to be "becoming", but not everybody is a positive role model.

[carenkh]

Who said anything about positive role models? I believe the phrase was wholesome family values, which they do, in their roundabout way, exemplify. That was something I saw years ago, when I realized that acceptance was a key part of human relationships - Marge and Homer know each other intimately and, in the end, accept and love each other.

Do I treat my kids the way their kids are treated? Nope - but the message goes deeper than that, it's not the surface-level stuff. I'm agreed with Ace22 about that. Most people understand it's a cartoon.

When my sons and I watch the show together, we laugh and laugh. That, in itself, provides value. And they've learned TONS of stuff from watching - all of the references to pop culture and historical figures have led to some really great discussions and explorations.

[Beuford]

Ooh, season 21? Nice.

[Ace22]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Sure ...

But the topic is "positive role models".

I am not able to say that all meat jackets are positive role models. Everyboyd can be said to be "becoming", but not everybody is a positive role model.

Some take longer to "get it". And some never do. Bart's character does show signs of "getting it". But then who looks at a 9 year old to be a role model?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Ace22

But then who looks at a 9 year old to be a role model?

I think it was Smart Alx (see earlier part of this discussion).

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I think it was Smart Alx (see earlier part of this discussion).

I'm sorry. I must not be remembering nor seeing correctly. Can you quote the sentence where I said that Bart is a positive role model?

[Acting Like Godot]

Oh, sorry .... I see that you endorse their "wholesome family values", except for Lisa Simpson.

[marinik]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

I didn't catch it but I'm definitely looking forward to it. If what you are saying is true, it confirms my love of The Simpsons. Disfunctional as they are, in the end they do teach about good wholesome family values.

Except for Lisa.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I was thinking the same. Where is this person coming from to see the Simpsons as positive role models? D'oh!

And thus the discussion progressed...

I am from traditional Europe where some good old values when it comes to family still exist. So Simpsons and wholesome family values are an oxymoron. Sorry but no way you betray your families trust again and again go back say I am sorry and all is OK.

Second I have 4 grown kids and a grandchild and only in some nightmare can Bart be even someone form whom "lesson to be learned". In stupidity and repetition of the same mistake over and over again....

Sorry but can't see any correlation between donuts, geed and pure lack of responsibility and values family, work.... just escapes my inteligence

[SmartAlx]

We learn lessons in essentially three ways.

Directly: "You shouldn't use a cellphone while driving or you will get into a car accident.". You hear that warning and listen.

The hard way: You use a cellphone while driving and get into an accident. You experience this event and change your behavior because of it.

By example: You know someone that got into an accident because they were using their cellphone. You hear the details about someone else learning the hard way and you change your behavior.

Learning the hard way is usually the most effective. Learning directly the least effective. Learning by example is the happy medium. Shows like The Simpsons (shoot just about all sitcoms) enable us to learn by example without having to actually know someone who suffered the lesson. They are also faaar more entertaining. I mean seriously. Have you seen Dora the Explorer? Frikkin boring!

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by marinik

Sorry but can't see any correlation between donut's, geed and pure lack of responsibility and values family, work.... just escapes my inteligence

See - you really do get what you focus on! To tie it back to the OP.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Shows like The Simpsons (shoot just about all sitcoms) enable us to learn by example without having to actually know someone who suffered the lesson.

That sounds a little like you're recommending The Simpsons because they make a good negative example.

[marinik]

Originally Posted by carenkh

See - you really do get what you focus on! To tie it back to the OP.

Sorry but I do not see that in life, on the contrary, in my string of reality the Simpsons are the absolute opposite from my life experience.

This is "lapsus mentis" if you ask me. I can't see positive family values in Simsons just because I believe in them.

[SmartAlx]

So when Bart does something bad, regrets it and spends the rest of the show making amends you don't feel the implied lesson? There is often an implied moral to the story. It's not spelled out like in South Park episodes, but it's there.

Of course South Park "morals of the stories" are often tongue in cheek anti-morals so I wouldn't consider South Park a hallmark for family values. They just include an explicitly defined moral to the story in each episode as a recurring plot device. Simpsons doesn't announce their moral and they don't always have a moral, but overall the show as a whole does teach good lessons.

[runningbird]

I completely agree with you SmartAlx. They may not (the Simpsons) nececessarily teach "family" values, but they do indeed teach lessons and practical philosophy. Plus some of the stuff they put together is simply brilliant.