Do you manifest what you fear?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by garentee

Show me a farmer or fisherman who did not work hard and was successful...

That won't happen. Your belief is very strong and does not permit such evidence to appear in your reality.

There are also salesmen, sportsmen, chefs, entrepreneurs, artists, actors, journalists, engineers, lawyers and doctors who share your belief, about their own occupations.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

That won't happen. Your belief is very strong and does not permit such evidence to appear in your reality.

There are also salesmen, sportsmen, chefs, entrepreneurs, artists, actors, journalists, engineers, lawyers and doctors who share your belief, about their own occupations.

What it really comes down to is that I love hard work. I find great satisfaction in doing something really difficult and succeeding at it.....I abhor taking the easy way out. Usually that in my mind makes for shoddy workmanship and does not make as good an end product. I really really hate laziness. Slackers need not apply..

[Acting Like Godot]

That's your perspective (meaning - that's your way to look at reality).

Other perspectives are possible, and other people do have other perspectives. For example:

"The important thing is to work smarter, not work harder."

"Work is not everything. Family time is more important."

"My current methods of doing housework are ineffective. I can get more done, more easily, if only I used a [vacuum cleaner]/[dishwasher]/[dryer]/[steam iron]/[microwave oven]."

""My current methods of farming are ineffective. I can get more done, more easily, if only I used [better tools]/[modern technology], or moved to another region with better soil."

Etc

[themaster]

Originally Posted by garentee

What it really comes down to is that I love hard work. I find great satisfaction in doing something really difficult and succeeding at it.....I abhor taking the easy way out. Usually that in my mind makes for shoddy workmanship and does not make as good an end product. I really really hate laziness. Slackers need not apply..

This is fine and okay for your reality, way of doing things.. I know people like you but the idea is don't INVALIDATE other ideas or ways of doing things..

Okay statements of limitations or making a distinct difference when there is none in your statement as you asked for..

Do I have something against coparate types rather than MOm and pop types? Absolutely..

Statement of invalidation.. you are saying your methods are that much better.. it is a negative judgment.. might I suggest Neutral or Positive.. let's see here

Neutral
- Their methods work and produces results

Positive
- Each of us has our own way of doing things.. I do not feel lack, jealousy if they make more money about it.. or don't get as personal as I do..

Mistreatment of Animals and the workers and the soil. Yup I sure do have a BIG fat problem with agribusiness.

Statement of morality.. you are saying there is a right and wrong way to treat animals.. if animals happily come forth for a experience, how can there be any wrong way?

Let's see if I can provide neutral and positive perspectives

Neutral
- I know those big farms are just there to make money and give animals limited experience but we can't feed everybody without it (maybe not the best )

Positive
- To each their own.. I think if business is good for those mass-feed farms.. business ought to be even better for me Cause I care about my animals

If I support it I am giving money to those that wish me out of business...

Statement of limitation.. you support it anyway by giving it thought.. in fact the more thought/action you give it the more successful they become..

This is the negative action of LOA or the counter-balance.. by supporting a belief that you have to Manipulate the world through your dollars you believe that this is power.. you have more power in one single thought then even 1 million euro's

Google Percy Schmeiser if you want a small picture of a very ugly faction of agriculture.

What's so ugly about it?

If all of us are the same being, person, animal, plant.. how can we be ugly? that is a viewpoint chosen perspective.. I instead say it's beautiful, magnanimous, glorious, lovely ? (notice my careful choice of words )

Originally Posted by garentee

Its not as if what is going on in the agribusiness world does not affect YOU... If you eat and you buy your food at the super market I would highly suggest doing research PRONTO to find out whats going on in your food supply. You can say that it is illusion, but tell that to farmers who have been sued for doing what they have for years... You can say its illusion, well tell that to The mistreated farm workers and employees in slaughterhouses and meat packing plants. No.. this is real its ugly and it affects you.

This is projection.. this is saying the "problem" is everyone's.. my teacher says (and maybe you don't care) it's very common for all of us when we don't UNDERSTAND something to project it on the world..

This statement of limitation says "I have no power over the world" but our "dollars" do have power.. do some RESEARCH, Take up a Cause, Write a Congressman/Lord?, Create a action committee

I say you have plenty of power and if you do ANY OF THE ABOVE you create more of what you're so trying to destroy.. I will not say that you are not correct, but I will say that this is a UNIVERSE of CHOICE.. everyone who wants to be here.. be it Ant, Plant, Vegetable, Person, David Duchovny is choosing to be here by CHOICE.. there is no forced, no lack, no nothing.. there is ideas of "force" and "no choice" and "lack" but these are the illusions in the game

Putting food on your table requires a lot of hard work and effort and there is no way around it. Sorry there is no convincing me other wise...

I told you before I don't invalidate your truth.. if you say this is truth.. I validate it.. I only say I see another way, I see brighter possibility.. where you see a dark cloud.. I see the sun peeking through

A field hand is NOT a farmer. A field hand works as a field hand on a farm. Much the same way a dishwasher cannot be called a chef.. Apples and oranges.

Your definition is hard core.. I mean makes you wonder how farm food ever get's to market without the feed grain, the manufacturer, the can goods, the trucking people and the person to put it on the super market shelves?

Bottom line is anybody that has the balls to work the land for a living is a farmer... I do have expectations though that it be in a safe and healthy manner for the consumer. Please understand that when you buy food produced in the manner that is practiced by larger farm/ food producers, that it is deleterious to many many people and larger communities and the ecological balance...

I will not argue with you about the idea that our food may contain "Toxins" but so were clear we have beautiful body's that can cure any disease and toxin's even if delivered in our food supply can be filtered cleaned out.. we could be eating 30 day no refrigerated meat and still live healthy.. yes, I really believe that..

The food that you buy at the supermarket is based on bad science and a lot suffering to get that food on your table. Do the research. I am not kidding here...Did we as a country manifest this system of food production?

Regardless of what you say every statement here reads of limitation and lack.. you are so hardcore into your own knowledge of things and expertise.. you just don't see the lack.. to open you up to it would likely require finding new farming information you would validate such as science journals.. I don't have the time or patience to do that for you.. sorry

I am definitely not convinced. Read the unsettling of America by Wendell Berry. I could go on for hours.. and probably have gone on for long enough...

Every statement says.. doubt, defeatism, lack.. I mean really reading it should I be thinking.. omg! how are we all not dead now?? this is serious shiznit.. we could all be eating E-coli and getting intestinal tract cancer??

I hope you can understand that I am not necessarily doing this to be a pain in the arse rather that I am very very passionate about what I do and it incenses me to no end what is goiong on in the food supply.. I am not going to change my stance that farming is hard work ...

but I do understand your points... I just happen to think that without having the experience doing this type of work it is impossible for you to make a statement that says farming is easy... not only is the work demanding, the making of a living doing farming is exceedingly challenging... Perhaps in all of your allowing you could allow for the possibility that I am correct and farming is hard....I probably would not do it if it were easy.

And here you've gone from LACK to Neutral.. I appreciate your changing the text and reaching for understanding

I'm glad you like hard work and farming.. but just so you know regardless of your exact definitions I still tell you there are farmers out there that just smoke pot all day, just rake in doe all day and go on vacation.. the point isn't how you do it or define the work/idea the point is if your happy.. and if I were a farmer (and yah never know I could be one day) I would be seeking happiness and ease those are my lifestyle choices.. they don't necessarily work for everyone

(and I think you and I can agree that our definition of farmers is highly different)

[garentee]

***Pontification Alert***
OK I see your points. to retort to just a few ... underneath it all I do not give a lot of thought to the corporate types of farmers. I am pretty crusty about them and their practices because I have a problem with their methodology. I accept that they exist and do acknowledge quite publicly that I think they are necessary for our food supply for now..Accepting them is definitely not the same as approval and I see no need to approve of what they do. I feel we have gotten badly off track by allowing them this amount of power.. Yeah I am angry about it. Anger about things like this can be channeled into something very creative and positive. There is nothing very positive about agribusiness. It is a very destructive force. Stubborn am I.
I do not see the fact that putting food on the table requires a lot of work as being a dark cloud.. You said that. I really enjoy the challenge and the amount of grit and determination it takes to do it. I love a challenge. I love to work my arse off. From my experience that is a positive thing. I am a pretty firey person and my work ethic and attitudes show this. I have a ton of energy and I need to expend it... thus my career choices.(was a chef before this) Furthermore I live in an environment where there are many cloudy days.. and I love cloudy rainy weather and wicked cold and heavy snows. I go crazy if it is sunny for too long. I see beauty in all weather.
Percy Schmeiser is a farmer who was sued by a larger agricultural company because he saved his seeds which had been cross pollinated by some gmo seeds from a neighboring farm. The company has a policy that requires any farmer that has their seeds or has had their fields cross pollinated not to save their seeds.. sort of like demanding their business.. as they have patented this particular strain of seed... They "own" all the properties of the seeds including the pollen. I wish I were making this up.It is totally legal too. Seems not very American if you ask me...So yeah I would say this IS ugly.
You say to take action. I DO... every time I step on my farm. I would agree with you if I were an arm chair farmer and crying foul about agribusiness, but I am not. I am doing the work. I am the farmer. I am taking more action then any petition could ever impart. My actions are far stronger than thoughts or words because they are a direct result of my beliefs of what I want to live as a life that I love. Every time I go to my farm (which is every day) it is taking action.
My definition of farming is hard core.. I am hardcore. I excel at what I do and have high standards. Quite simply I walk the walk and talk the talk. I recognize that there does need to be others in the food supply to help with the task of putting food on the table...I choose to ignore those people all together because the middle man does the least and reaps the most. I do without the middle man. I order the seeds, seed,plant,care for, and pick package/process and deliver..... I do have help from time to time, but I can run this operation all by myself and quite often do. My produce commands high prices and I get those prices....
I am not saying or it is not my intention to convey the message that we should all be sick or dying etc I am just saying there are a LOT of bad practices that need not be there. The reasons they exist are rather insidious and generally based on greed.If you were interested I can give a few examples of places to look to see what I am talking about. I see the whole picture.. the obstacles and the opportunities.. I CERTAINLY do not feel at all defeated, nor do I feel that the future is bleak in the least. Rather I see an awful lot of room for improvement and opportunity for a safer and better food supply. In my opinion and that is all most of this has been or can be,The food from the larger scale farms is garbage.. I eat a lot of fresh vegetables(picked less than 24 hours ago) and high quality meats. I want the others that share this planet to have that opportunity.. agribusiness does NOT meet that criteria. You say that the human body has the ability to clean itself out.. I do agree with that..Why though subject it to those toxins and poisons in the first place? Sorry but that is what is in your food at the supermarket. There is no need to farm using poisons or mistreatment of animals.. NONE. We advanced for 10,000 years without those, why start now? Why are we killing ecosystems by spraying our fields with toxins? How is that even good or spiritual? Farming using the natural soil amendments, and using biological pest and disease controls is more sound for an ecosystem than using petroleum based fertilizers and killing non targeted insects(which may be beneficial) using DDT and god knows what else... The solution for everything lies in nature. It means though more labor is needed to exact that solution. Weeding with herbecides kills soil micro organisms as well as the weeds. these are the laws of unintended consequences.. my take on that is that it ignores the soils as living organisms. Since the choices are to spray toxins and pollutants or to use tractors for weeding or hoes or hand weeding...all of them take time and energy and labor...What I am saying is that it takes a lot of hours to feed people.. There is no way around it. Why live a spiritual existence if one is going to take short cuts that undermine the overall health of oneself, community and the ecosystem. Live as if the soil matters, because it does. There are a lot of components to healthy soils that we require in order for us to be here in the first place. Without good soil we have no way of insuring healthy communities.... It is far too complex for me to go any further, but if you really want to get a good picture of what I am saying do some research about soils and how they relate to everything in your reality. There is way more important activity going on in the soils than any thought ever had. There is a whole other world in there that we are dependent on for our survival. Not just us, but all of the animals and vegetative matter.
Wow.. Ok I am done with the pontification... I want to thank you for stimulating my mind and soul to bring this forth.

[themaster]

Yes, I very much like your neutral tone If you are not aware many entrepreneurs are working on the idea of making farming less toxic.. if they don't fix it the geneticist's will..

But I would agree with you that if one wanted to take control and not rely on super markets etc. if one lives in a more urban environment they can run their own vegetable garden or go crazy and create a "greenhouse" no?

My parents used to raise chickens way back in the day.. it ain't impossible

Originally Posted by garentee

Wow.. Ok I am done with the pontification... I want to thank you for stimulating my mind and soul to bring this forth.

Your very welcome.. it has been very stimulating for us both