Still Skeptical

[intj123]

I'm still a little skeptical about IM. I mean, I can think of one thing I could of possibly manifested but I don't know really. Also is there such thing as a person who believes in fate and IM at the same time? they seem contradictory. Can you have fate and free will at the same time?

I dunno if it's all real maybe I should test it? What should I try to manifest hmmm....

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by intj123

Also is there such thing as a person who believes in fate and IM at the same time? they seem contradictory. Can you have fate and free will at the same time?

Sure .... In magickal schools, this is referred to as the concept of True Will.

To put it simply, there are many, many different things you can do in your own life, but there are also a few Big Things which you cannot run away from. These are also the things that are "fated".

[intj123]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Sure .... In magickal schools, this is referred to as the concept of True Will.

To put it simply, there are many, many different things you can do in your own life, but there are also a few Big Things which you cannot run away from. These are also the things that are "fated".

hmm that actually kinda makes sense to me, it's possible in that manner I guess. Now what to manifest?

[Brown Eyed Mystic]

Yes. I have read that you do have complete free will before you incarnate (like before taking this birth, your soul decided for itself where, how, when, why to incarnate, what are gona be those big levents as ALG said. So, technically that's free will of the soul, your essence.) When we incarnate, there are still things that are possible to be manifested and free will to be used but within a ceiling of your ultimate fate. Like there's a few major things already chosen by you for this lifetime. Also, meanwhile, you can manifest whatever you'd want but not escape those few destined events.

Have a look at the following links...I think these can be helpful

Dec22nd2006

The Riddle of Fate and Free

I don't completely like the idea of the fated ceiling although it fits in logically well, coz it brings an uncertain component of destiny into picture. Aaah I want to know everything for certain here and now!

[Tanemon]

David Spangler was for many years the key North American thinker/writer on manifestation.

I chanced upon a blog entry he wrote on the topic of why & how intentions manifest, and also why sometimes they do not. I've copied & pasted an excerpt...


From:
Starshaman's View
Saturday, May 2, 2009

By David Spangler


The evidence is that life responds to us; it configures to our inner nature, to our thoughts, feelings, and spirit. This is real magic.

Why does it do this? How does it happen? What makes this magic work and create a response? Over the centuries, people have come up with different theories: the law of attraction, or the power of thought, of imagination, or of the will. All of these undoubtedly contribute and are part of this magic. At the same time, we all have examples of when they don’t work, of when we thought positively about something and it did not happen or wasn’t attracted or when our will or imagination did not bring about the result we wished.

The point then is not that there is no magic but that it operates more holistically than we may have thought. It isn’t just the law of attraction or the power of thought or the use of the imagination. Other things may be involved, at least some of the time. And if you think about it, this makes sense. Life responds to us as whole beings, not just as thinking beings or feeling beings or imagining beings. What evokes a response at a given moment may be a mystery; we may have to do some attentive observation and experimentation to gain clues about what works for us and what doesn’t. Each of us may come to this magic uniquely, based on our particular individuality; what works for someone else may not work for us because we are different people. But what is certain is that life will and does configure to us. It does respond.

[Lil Chris]

Originally Posted by Tanemon

David Spangler was for many years the key North American thinker/writer on manifestation.

I chanced upon a blog entry he wrote on the topic of why & how intentions manifest, and also why sometimes they do not. I've copied & pasted an excerpt...

A direct link to the article would be more helpful

[Daffy Duck]

Starshaman's View: No Muggles Here

[Lil Chris]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Starshaman's View: No Muggles Here

Thanks Daffy...

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Brown Eyed Mystic

Yes. I have read that you do have complete free will before you incarnate (like before taking this birth, your soul decided for itself where, how, when, why to incarnate, what are gona be those big levents as ALG said.

Actually you don't have complete free will even then. For some beings, there is effectively no choice at all. For others, there is a limited range of choices.

(I make the above comments based on my combined understanding gathered from different sources, principally Brian Weiss's research into past-life regression hypnosis; Buddhist explanations of karma and reincarnation; a bit of Abraham Hicks; and a bit of Gary Zukav).

[Brown Eyed Mystic]

Actually you don't have complete free will even then. For some beings, there is effectively no choice at all. For others, there is a limited range of choices.

You mean to say before incarnating, right...Hmm...Well it so is that those who've behaved with complete cruelty, after dieing, can actually take a look at their whole life that's just through, like a movie. And thereon they probably realise what damage in terms of acts/karma they've incurred, and they are bound to take lessons in the upcoming lifetime which are grave.
That said, its also been said that they can somehow not choose the grave and difficult lessons in the upcoming lifetime. No sou is "forced" but just counciled. They can choose to have an easier existence, but ultimately the soul urges to go to the "Light", and hence the highly negative karmic soul at one point wants to release the debts quickly by taking difficult lessons. So in a way, they superficially do have free will before taking another birth, but since all souls want to go to the Source, they eventually have to act in order to release the bad stuff. So, that "law"/"want" to finally go to the Source remains, under which all operate.

Yes, hence there is less of a free will there, as you said. But the very first time, it should have a complete free will. Consider this, when the soul is just "born", before the first incarnation it has balanced karma (I assume) and it does have complete free will then. The second, third, fourth etc times its bound to the previous lifetimes' events, good or bad (as per us). So then, the urge to merge with its Creator is always prevailing above the law of the free will, in a way.

[Acting Like Godot]

Errr, complex topic, too much to cover in one thread .... But some souls don't even get that far. After the death of their physical body, they fail to cross over to the light, and stay on as earthbound spirits. Commonly known as "ghosts".

I used to have a couple of those in my home. I had somebody come to "cleanse" the house twice, and while it worked, it only worked temporarily (like, a couple of months).

In the end, it was my mother who got rid of them (at least they haven't been back since she did her thing). She's big on the Nichiren stuff.

[Acting Like Godot]

Most ghosts are quite harmless, actually. Not much to worry about.

[Brown Eyed Mystic]

Errr, complex topic, too much to cover in one thread .... But some souls don't even get that far. After the death of their physical body, they fail to cross over to the light, and stay on as earthbound spirits. Commonly known as "ghosts".

Hmm...well I think still they have that will with them somewhere even then. And when they are ready or really willfully decide to cross over, they are helped out.

In the end, it was my mother who got rid of them (at least they haven't been back since she did her thing). She's big on the Nichiren stuff.

Okay your mom drew them out...? Neat. And your wifey bilocated too. Woah that's good stuff.

[Acting Like Godot]

My mother only has one trick up her sleeve, but it's a really powerful one. It's called daimoku.

Daimoku - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[intj123]

I totally forgot. doesnt this count as a manifestation?



it's my masaru emoto rice hado experiment. took about a month with more than once a day talking and sometimes my friends helped, seemed to make a dramatic change compared to other ones I've seen on youtube, but I think they do it half asked. but emoto's was like mine too.

[Acting Like Godot]

Well yes, that would count ...

[ellie]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Starshaman's View: No Muggles Here

I loved how he wrote this article. What resonated with me, is that we are all individual and we all need to find what works for us.

I think that's the key. We can become so wrapped up at times with things not working they way it does for others, that we lose faith.

But I think part of all this LOA is finding your own magic, your own special unique magic...magic that resonates with you.

I'm starting to find my magic and it's such an fascinating and exciting thing to follow.

But I can understand why so many people want to share the wisdom on how to do this and that, because why wouldn't one want others to experience similar magic to them.

[Tanemon]

Originally Posted by ellie

I loved how he wrote this article. What resonated with me, is that we are all individual and we all need to find what works for us.

I think that's the key. We can become so wrapped up at times with things not working they way it does for others, that we lose faith.

But I think part of all this LOA is finding your own magic, your own special unique magic...magic that resonates with you.

I'm starting to find my magic and it's such an fascinating and exciting thing to follow.

But I can understand why so many people want to share the wisdom on how to do this and that, because why wouldn't one want others to experience similar magic to them.

True. Some people's motivation is primarily to share something good.

Of course, there are those who figure they can make a name for themselves and also some good money, selling books, in-person workshops, and on-line courses. Especially if they can convince a new generation that no one has yet seen it or stated it so clearly, made it so easy to learn. Then the game sorta beomes another variation on the old "fastest gun in the West" - with the young bucks in effect challenging the big-name ol' timers.

I would not say that there are no helpful guides or good teachers among our fellow humans. But a person has to be careful choosing a teacher to spend a lot of time or some money with. Plus, ellie, again I think you're right about how our own individual style must emerge from the process of learning.

[ellie]

Originally Posted by Tanemon

True. Some people's motivation is primarily to share something good.

Of course, there are those who figure they can make a name for themselves and also some good money, selling books, in-person workshops, and on-line courses. Especially if they can convince a new generation that no one has yet seen it or stated it so clearly, made it so easy to learn. Then the game sorta beomes another variation on the old "fastest gun in the West" - with the young bucks in effect challenging the big-name ol' timers.

I would not say that there are no helpful guides or good teachers among our fellow humans. But a person has to be careful choosing a teacher to spend a lot of time or some money with. Plus, Daffy, again I think you're right about how our own individual style must emerge from the process of learning.

Very true indeed. I have yet to be attracted to any book (ok I did buy steve's), PD talks, programs where I would need to fork out money, because most of them just seem cheezy to me and I too have in the back of my mind that these people at the end of the day are just interested in the financial aspect of it all. What might of started with an honest belief and wanting to share, ultimately turns into something else...MONEY. That's why you will never see me being a PD guru And...also...I don't have the gift of the gab