Why don't schizophrenic's dream worlds turn into reality?

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

You don't perform double blind studies.

Have you performed double blind studies to verify God's existence? I bet you haven't! But you still believe. Crazy.

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

LoA is like a zero in math. Multiply anything by it and you end up with the same answer.

And yet no one denies the existence of zero.

We really don't know, Alx. The best we can do is to do what works. There are scientists out there who are more educated about reality than either you or me and they believe in LoA. And there are other scientists who think LoA is silly. So even the experts can't agree, let alone us little forumers.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

We're touching on something important, which is "how do we know what theory is correct?" And that's what I care more about. My answer to this is: look at the results!

How do you know the results weren't skewed? What if someone cheated? The LoA is too attractive. You want it to be true. You enable it. And you don't consider the consequenses if it doesn't work the way you think it does. You can't because the law won't let you.

[Daffy Duck]

How do you know the Bible wasn't skewed? What if someone cheated? Eternal salvation is too attractive. You want it to be true.

By the way, I actually don't care if the theory of LoA is true or not. The techniques work though, so that's nice.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

How do you know the Bible wasn't skewed? What if someone cheated? Eternal salvation is too attractive. You want it to be true.

By the way, I actually don't care if the theory of LoA is true or not. The techniques work though, so that's nice.

At least I admit that Christianity is a religion. You all deny that the LoA is one.

Christianity brings harmony. The teachings are all about how to live with your fellow man. It's externally focused. Its aims are to help other people.

The LoA is selfish. Its aims are to help the individual. The users might not be selfish, but the practice of IM is entirely selfish. How can anyone think that the use of a selfish tool will bring harmony to the world? How can you think that it won't bring destruction?

Christianity is about cooperation. LoA is about individuality. I choose cooperation.

The LoA does work, despite logic telling us otherwise. The only way that it can work then is if some super natural power enables it. And since it is self centered, then that should give you a clue as to what kind of super natural power enables it. I don't want that kind of super natural power to have ANY control of my life. I want to know that a truly benevolent force of love is in charge. A love that is logical. As I've said before, I did question my faith, and it has been proven time and again to be true. Christianity is logical. But you have to study it. CS Lewis doubted it. He aimed to prove Christianity false. Instead he proved it true.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

At least I admit that Christianity is a religion. You all deny that the LoA is one.

LoA is more accurately described as a belief. It's not recognized as a religion.

But just for giggles, let's call LoA a religion. Okay, so... wait, that doesn't change anything.

Christianity brings harmony. The teachings are all about how to live with your fellow man. It's externally focused. Its aims are to help other people.

Sure, that's one way to look at it. Here's another way:

Christianity promotes disharmony. It says it is right and everything else is wrong. The people who become Christians are incredibly selfish... they do it because it feels good to do the "right" thing. They do it because they want the reward -- they want eternity in Heaven. They wouldn't do it otherwise.

The LoA is selfish. Its aims are to help the individual. The users might not be selfish, but the practice of IM is entirely selfish.

Sure, that's one way to look at it. Can you think of another way?

I choose cooperation.

Me too!

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

A love that is logical. As I've said before, I did question my faith, and it has been proven time and again to be true. Christianity is logical. But you have to study it.

Replace the word "Christianity" with "LoA" and you sound like those selfish LoA people.

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

The LoA does work, despite logic telling us otherwise.

Despite your definition of logic, yes.

The only way that it can work then is if some super natural power enables it.

Are you sure that's the "only" way it can work?

[themaster]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

LoA is more accurately described as a belief. It's not recognized as a religion.

I would call it a understanding.. and each step forward pulls you that much more into true knowledge of reality and away from the dark recesses of FEAR

You know I think SmartAlx knows "LOA" works.. I've never once heard him say it doesn't.. I think maybe his point currently is to make the best smart questions he can and arguments that ultimately look more like a school yard argument about the color of a lunch pail.. when I say again "both answers are right "

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

CS Lewis doubted it. He aimed to prove Christianity false. Instead he proved it true.

Charles Templeton (worked with Billy Graham) doubted it. He aimed to prove Christianity true. Instead he proved it false.

The reason I keep using your logic against you is to illustrate that it all depends on what you want to believe. The logic itself is the same, so this type of debate will never be "won" on logic.

themaster, I think Alx believes Satan is the reason LOA works. It's odd for Satan to encourage love and the highest good of all, but oh well. Satan is a bit of a goof.

[StAnselm]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

There are scientists out there who are more educated about reality than either you or me and they believe in LoA.

There is a legitimate scientist who will tell you that you can manifest money or a house by thinking about it?

[Daffy Duck]

I've never met anyone who didn't make money without thinking about it. What do you mean?

If you're asking if there are legitimate scientists who go into further detail about how your thoughts and consciousness affect reality, the answer is yes. ALG knows more about them than I do. They are mentioned in other topics.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Christianity promotes disharmony. It says it is right and everything else is wrong. The people who become Christians are incredibly selfish... they do it because it feels good to do the "right" thing. They do it because they want the reward -- they want eternity in Heaven. They wouldn't do it otherwise.

Christians are told to be loving, giving, charitable, self-sacrificing. Who tells the LoA user to be loving, giving, charitable and especially self-sacrificing? Something inside him does of course. And that is despite the LoA which tells him that he needs to be selfish.

Even though we (Christians) disagree with other belief systems we are commanded to treat our enemies with love. There is a parable called the parable of the good samaritan. A priest and a monk find a dying man on the road and because of their (Jewish) religion they wouldn't touch the man. A samaritan (an enemy of the dying man) came upon the man and sacrificed himself to save the man's life. That was one of Jesus' most important lessons. What is harmony? Agreeing with everyone or treating each other with love despite our differences? The latter of course, and that is what Christianity is.

Check - mate.

The LoA (and all other New Age belief systems) are the former. The goal of all new age belief systems is to bring all belief systems together so conflict is eliminated by default. You don't have to worry about working out your conflicts and loving one another is easy because you are all the same. You might say that you embrace each other's differences but you put it under an umbrella that creates sameness.

Despite your definition of logic, yes.

My definition of logic includes beliefs that aren't fallacious. The LoA (you all must admit) does have circular reasoning at its core. Circular reasoning is by definition fallacious.

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

themaster, I think Alx believes Satan is the reason LOA works. It's odd for Satan to encourage love and the highest good of all, but oh well. Satan is a bit of an idiot.

Just because YOU want to encourage love and you want the LoA to work for the good of all doesn't mean the force that actually makes the LoA work wants love and for it to work for the good of all.

[StAnselm]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

If you're asking if there are legitimate scientists who go into further detail about how your thoughts and consciousness affect reality, the answer is yes..

In other words, the answer is NO. There isn't any legitimate scientist who says you can manifest a car, a house, or money.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Who tells the LoA user to be loving, giving, charitable and especially self-sacrificing?

The LoA user does. He or she doesn't need to be "told" because the LoA user knows that doing the highest good for all is what's best.

Agreeing with everyone or treating each other with love despite our differences? The latter of course, and that is what Christianity is.

That's what LoA believers often do. Since when do Christians agree with everyone?

Check - mate.

Yes! I win!

This is fun.

You don't have to worry about working out your conflicts and loving one another is easy because you are all the same.

Loving one another is easy? Oh my God, that sounds horrible. What a nasty thing Satan is up to.

The LoA (you all must admit) does have circular reasoning at its core. Circular reasoning is by definition fallacious.

Then The Bible is fallacious as well, because it has circular reasoning all over it.

Why is the Bible true? Because God made it.
Why do we believe God? Because the Bible told us to.

Just because YOU want to encourage love and you want the LoA to work for the good of all doesn't mean the force that actually makes the LoA work wants love and for it to work for the good of all.

So I can use Satan's own power to spite him in the face? That sounds wonderful. All Christians should do it!

Originally Posted by StAnselm

In other words, the answer is NO. There isn't any legitimate scientist who says you can manifest a car, a house, or money.

What's next? Are you going to tell me the sky isn't blue? You need to do more research. I see plenty of people have manifested cars. They're in my way when I'm driving home.

I'm not sure you understand the word. Please don't take this as an insult, but see this: manifest definition | Dictionary.com

I'll have to leave you guys for now. Let those who have ears to hear, listen.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

The LoA user does. He or she doesn't need to be "told" because the LoA user knows that doing the highest good for all is what's best.

And how does he know it? What has given him that desire to do good?

Loving one another is easy?

Of course it's not! That's my point! The new age belief systems want to take the easy way out.

Oh my God,

Oh, you believe in Him too? Well then why are we arguing?

that sounds horrible. What a nasty thing Satan is up to.

Indeed.

Then The Bible is fallacious as well, because it has circular reasoning all over it.

Why is the Bible true? Because God made it.
Why do we believe God? Because the Bible told us to.

You will never see a Christian use that corrupted piece of logic. The only people who say that are atheists/agnostics trying to prove the Bible false.

So I can use Satan's own power to spite him in the face? That sounds wonderful. All Christians should do it!

And what would we gain? Satan would have some spit on his face. We would have lost our souls. I'm pretty sure Satan would be okay with that.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by StAnselm

If you disagree, manifest your rationale.

LOL Clever.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

LOL Clever.

Ooops, not clever enough to argue without making personal attacks, it looks like. De-manifested.

[Acting Like Godot]

Science? Again? Didn't we have enough of that in the other thread?

Dear friends, I could tell you a lot about science. But pssst .... Here's a little secret. Science is best for the things that science can study. And it is limited by its own nature in its scope.

Science cannot tell you how to be happy.
Science does not teach you kindness or compassion.
Science does not teach you how to choose a job.
Science does not teach a baby how to walk.
Science does not teach a child how to talk.
Science does not help Bernanke to make any decision on interest rates.
Science will not guide you on who to vote for President.
Science cannot explain Grandma's special secret recipe for cheesecake.
Science cannot explain Michael Jackson's musical genius.
Science does not teach how to drive a car.
Science does not understand your culture.
Science does not know your traditions.
Science cannot interpret the terms and conditions of your accident insurance.
Science will not make you a CEO.
Science did not help Gandhi liberate India.
Science cannot understand music.
Science does not know art.
Science will not make you a lawyer.
Science will not make you a teacher.
Science will not make you a sportsman.
Science will not make you an accountant.
Science will not make you a chef.
Science will not make you a businessman.
Science will not make you a writer.
Science will not make you the world's best personal development blogger.
Science has no theory on Warren Buffet's investment success.
Science cannot explain how to be a good father.
Science cannot explain how to be a good mother.
Science did not make Mozart.
Science did not make Mother Teresa.
Science does not teach you how to swim.
Science does not know why a joke is funny.
Science does not know what is love.
Science cannot explain democracy, or inspiration, or history.
Science cannot even explain the principles of interior design.
Science is clueless on the law of supply and demand in economics.


I could go on, but by now, perhaps the point is clear. Whenever someone tells you "X is not proven by science", remember that science is very limited in the things it can prove. Numerous matters in human society, and in your personal life, are of considerable significance - and science cannot explain them in any way, or prove that they exist.

Therefore - the fact that science is unable to prove X or completely fails to explain it .... does not in itself mean that X does not exist!

Science does not even study love, parking spaces or the state of the global economy, let alone whether you can manifest them! Yet surely this does not mean that love, parking spaces or the global economy are non-existent.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Angela

Ooops, not clever enough to argue without making personal attacks, it looks like. De-manifested.

Personal attack?

[Acting Like Godot]

If you have a question about science, you might ask a scientist.
If you have a question about politics, you might ask a politician.
If you have a question about art, you might ask an artist.
If you have a question about your baby, you might ask another parent.
If you have a question about your work, you might ask your colleague.
If you have a question about your neighbourhood, you might ask your neighbour.

Does the above make sense?

If you have a question about your mind and your reality, you might ask people who have deeply examined the nature of mind and reality. Whoever such people may be.

They might well be politicians. Or artists, or parents, or colleagues. They might even be scientists.

But it would be silly to think that just because a person is a politician, artist, parent, colleague OR scientist, that in itself means that he is a good person to ask, about the nature of your mind and your reality.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Personal attack?

Just to be clear: Personal attacks often warrant a warning at first, depending on the severity, but the reason he was banned by the moderators is because St. Anselm = Kanzeon. For those who don't know, Kanzeon was recently banned for multiple personal attacks.

I'm removing some of the argumentative posts, then I'll reply to you, SmartAlx.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

And how does he know it? What has given him that desire to do good?

We could spend many days discussing Absolute Morality, but for now, I'll just say that humans can do good just because they have logic and can see that it "works" better than doing "bad" things. There doesn't need to be a supernatural influence.

Of course it's not! That's my point!

I've always found that loving someone was easier than hating them. Anger and hate take up a lot of energy. I'm lazy, so I prefer loving.

Oh, you believe in Him too? Well then why are we arguing?

It seems we have different ideas about Him.

The only people who say that are atheists/agnostics trying to prove the Bible false.

Just like the only people who speak with corrupted logic against LoA are trying to prove it false? Maybe not always so, right?

We would have lost our souls. I'm pretty sure Satan would be okay with that.

We're going to lose our souls for loving each other and being happy? We definitely have different ideas about God, my friend.

Did you know pastors like Joel Osteen preach similar techniques to LoA? Stuff like keeping a positive mindset, being grateful, and expecting abundance.

Check out Proverbs 23:7. For as man thinks, so is he...

I quickly found a link you might like: Link (Author doesn't like The Secret book, but acknowledges the LoA)

And another, more detailed one: A Christian View of The Law of Attraction

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

How do you know the results weren't skewed? What if someone cheated?

So, go test it for yourself. Duh ....

[Acting Like Godot]

Christians who are interested in the LOA can try it out within the framework of their Christian beliefs.

All they need to do is pray to God.

Just introduce the standard elements of LOA practice, into your prayer. For example, pray intensely. Pray with deep faith. Pray with words. Pray with emotion. Pray with images. Pray with conviction that your prayer is heard and will be answered.

And if you believe that there are certain things that Christians should or should not pray for, then pray for the things you think you should pray for, and don't pray for the things you don't think you should pray for.

Eg if you think you should pray for spiritual guidance, then pray for that. If you think it's wrong to pray for a new BMW, then don't pray for that. Etc.

[Daffy Duck]

SmartAlx, next time in prayer, you may try asking God what you can learn from LoA. What aspects of it can work for you, as a Christian?

Edit: Ooops, ALG just suggested something similar.

Also, it seems all you do here is attack LoA. Hasn't that got old yet? Many intelligent people, including myself , have launched arguments or debates against LoA. I'm personally skeptical of some ideas of "how" it works, but eh, so what. Like I said earlier, I'm more interested in results. I'm more interested in turning on lightbulbs than learning about the inner workings of electricity.

It's fun and different to argue for it, this time.

Ultimately, in this forum, people have very good reasons for believing in it, and it's not really possible to prove or disprove. Just like God. If your goal is to disprove it, you may end up frustrated, so be careful. Needless frustration is no fun.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Just introduce the standard elements of LOA practice, into your prayer. For example, pray intensely. Pray with deep faith. Pray with words. Pray with emotion. Pray with images. Pray with conviction that your prayer is heard and will be answered.

Matthew 21:22 — If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

Mark 11:24 — … whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it and it will be yours.

Mark 9:23 — everything is possible for him who believes.

James 1:5 — But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt.

[Acting Like Godot]

In fact, there are more than a few Christians who are also LOA teachers.

Examples: Joseph Murphy; James Twyman; Reverend Michael Beckwith; even Jose Silva.

Jose Silva, in his book "The Silva Method", goes on and on for a few hundred pages about mind stuff ... and then finally, on the last page, says that hmmm, actually he thinks that what he's been referring to all along as "Infinite Intelligence" is in fact Jesus Christ.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Christians are told to be loving, giving, charitable, self-sacrificing. Who tells the LoA user to be loving, giving, charitable and especially self-sacrificing?

It depends on which version of LOA you're referring to.

For example, love is the No. 1 positive emotion that Abraham Hicks tells people to reach for. So there.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Even though we (Christians) disagree with other belief systems we are commanded to treat our enemies with love.

Hmmm ... I kinda prefer Buddhism then. In Buddhism, you are taught to have no enemies, but to love all living things, from family members to strangers down to teeny-weeny sentient beings like ants and beetles.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

The LoA (and all other New Age belief systems) are the former. The goal of all new age belief systems is to bring all belief systems together so conflict is eliminated by default.

I don't know whether this is the goal of all new age belief systems. But personally I do see a lot of value & commonality in many different belief systems.

I don't see how God can be as small & limited as some Christians regard Him to be.

I do believe that if He is truly omniscient and all-powerful and everywhere and interested in mankind, He must have made Himself known to all sorts of people in different parts of the world in different ways at many different times over thousands of years.

To me, it's ridiculous to think that He would have confined his contact with mankind to one little corner of the world called the Middle East, via one solitary special emissary who had an earthly lifespan of only about 30 to 35 years. It's simply illogical.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

The LoA does work, despite logic telling us otherwise. The only way that it can work then is if some super natural power enables it. And since it is self centered, then that should give you a clue as to what kind of super natural power enables it. I don't want that kind of super natural power to have ANY control of my life.

There you go again. Full of assumptions.

Here's just one. Why do you say that the LOA is self-centered?

LOA is about intentions, and people have all kinds of intentions.

Perhaps my intention is to become a world-famous gospel singer, so that I can share my music with many people and brighten their day.

Perhaps my intention is to build a church, so that many people can go there and learn more about God.

Perhaps my intention is to improve myself in every way, so that I can contribute to the wellbeing of all the people around me.

How can you make a generaliaton that the LOA is self-centered, when there are so many kinds of intentions that people could have?

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Just to be clear: Personal attacks often warrant a warning at first, depending on the severity, but the reason he was banned by the moderators is because St. Anselm = Kanzeon. For those who don't know, Kanzeon was recently banned for multiple personal attacks.

I'm removing some of the argumentative posts, then I'll reply to you, SmartAlx.

With respect, I wasn't attacking anyone. I complimented him. I said he was clever.