manifesting a loan from a mean man

[WordKeeper]

Yep Kanzeon - time to move on. I had to work through this to understand that - time to move on. Time to NOT be beholden nor dependant on my father. That is the wrong source. I now understand. Moving on - out of scarcity toward abundance.

[Angela]

@Kanzeon: I wasn't really speaking of money. I agree, it sounds like money's not forthcoming from this guy -- but he's got an abundance of gifts to provide to his family nevertheless.

Originally Posted by WordKeeper

Whew Angela - I can't quite cut through the packaging of your offering. It seems to be encapsulated in a bitter covering. You seem to want to cram your "gift" down my throat and expect me to be thankful. Your self-satisfied smugness is not palatable nor is it a gift regardless of what you call it.

Yes - you and my father both.

Well, your judgement doesn't mean anything about your dad, or about me (your dad is probably too mean to take it personally, and I'm too smug) but I can see (with compassion, not smugness) how it ties a knot in your hose*. I'm sorry you're experiencing my words as being crammed down your throat or as bitter, and I definitely don't expect your thanks. As you untie the knots and kinks in your hose (I'm confident you will), the good stuff will flow easily and effortlessly to you, and the bitter and the cramming will just float right by, hardly noticeable.

A gift comes without strings. I respectfully decline your offer.

Yes, I get that. The Universe gets it, too. Best wishes with your businesses and with getting abundance flowing!


*p.s... that's the hose or bandwidth through which abundance and generosity flows, not the "don't get your pantyhose tied in a knot" kind of hose.

[WordKeeper]

The Universe gets it, too.

That's exactly the smugness that makes your offering bitter and unpalatable. I'm baffled that you have no interest in receiving my gift to you.

It's as though you are the IT who can deign whether the Universe provides me with abundance or not based on whether I swallow your bitter pill.

but I can see (with compassion

Wow - that's a compassion I can do without. Do you really, honestly, deep in your soul truly believe you are offering something "with compassion"? You clearly have something to offer but I don't see it as compassion. I believe you value compassion but I think you may want to use empathy (standing in someone else's shoes) to see if what you offer really is compassion. I'm wondering what you mean by compassion - at minimum I think we assign different meanings to that word.

[Kanzeon]

Originally Posted by WordKeeper

Yep Kanzeon - time to move on. I had to work through this to understand that - time to move on. Time to NOT be beholden nor dependant on my father. That is the wrong source. I now understand. Moving on - out of scarcity toward abundance.

That's good, I think. But it is tragic. Many parents give everything to help their children, though they have far less than he does. I wish you the best in dealing with that loss and pain.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by CarolM

Look around at nature, at the universe, it IS abundance, and so it will be in your life. The universe is brimming with everything you could ever dream possible. If you want it, really want it. Be prepared.

That whole post was very nicely expressed, CarolM.

[WordKeeper]

Many parents give everything to help their children, though they have far less than he does. I wish you the best in dealing with that loss and pain.

Wow - thank you. Thank you Kanzeon for hearing me and for understanding. That is such a precious gift. That is just what I needed.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by WordKeeper

That's exactly the smugness that makes your offering bitter and unpalatable. I'm baffled that you have no interest in receiving my gift to you.

I see you as a tremendous provider of gifts, and I'm grateful to you for it.

It's as though you are the IT who can deign whether the Universe provides me with abundance or not based on whether I swallow your bitter pill.

Oh, no -- quite the contrary! There's abundance all around you, just waiting for you to dip into it; you are in control of whether or not, and how much, you accept. You get to choose what you accept and what you don't. That's the beauty of training yourself to be a good receiver -- finding value everywhere you look, even in the bitter pills -- it makes the bitter pill problem disappear.

Do you really, honestly, deep in your soul truly believe you are offering something "with compassion"?

Yup!

You clearly have something to offer but I don't see it as compassion. I believe you value compassion but I think you may want to use empathy (standing in someone else's shoes) to see if what you offer really is compassion. I'm wondering what you mean by compassion - at minimum I think we assign different meanings to that word.

Thank you for the compliment! In this particular case, I meant by compassion: that there's a knot in your hose, preventing abundance from getting through to you, and I'm sorry about that. As I mentioned from the beginning of the thread, I want you to get what you want! Everything I have said here has been said with that aim in mind.

That what I say pushes your buttons is a good thing! It means there's potential value (maybe not the kind of value I mean to provide, but still. ) That's always so when someone pushes your buttons. If you didn't feel irritated, if what was being said just passed you by like a lilypad on a lazy river, then there wouldn't be value there for you. That's why I am so generously continuing to write to you. You may think to yourself, "not anymore, boy. From here on in, I'm letting her words go by me like a lilypad on a lazy river." And if you do think that, just notice if you feel a negative emotion or not. If you feel any negative emotion, your button is still getting pushed, and there's still value! (The same is true when anyone pushes your buttons, including your dad, not just me, of course.)

The dad stuff is all water under the bridge though, it looks like, as you seem to be moving on to different possible sources for your funding. That sounds like a great idea. Once again, best wishes with your endeavors!

[WordKeeper]

That what I say pushes your buttons is a good thing! It means there's potential value (maybe not the kind of value I mean to provide, but still. )

can be - button pushing can highlight an area that needs attention - yes.

If you didn't feel irritated, if what was being said just passed you by like a lilypad on a lazy river, then there wouldn't be value there for you.

not so - Kanzeon's last post unlocked something for me - with no irritation. Diandre offered a salve - gentle and healing.

Sand in an oyster can produce a beautiful pearl. But salt in a wound does not a jewel produce. There is irritation and then there is irritation.

I seek to be the sand and not the salt.

[Angela]

But salt in a wound does not a jewel produce. There is irritation and then there is irritation.

As the Pavlinas might say, nothing in and of itself is irritating. It's up to the person hearing it if they want to choose to feel irritated or not -- you get to choose whether you want to be an oyster or a wound, and whether I, your dad, or anyone else is sand or salt. Not all of the messages you hear here will be gentle and soothing, that's for sure! But they're all opportunities for personal growth.

Hey! Maguru just wrote a salient and very well-expressed post on how she transforms irritation into growth: Negative reflections of self.

[CarolM]

Originally Posted by Angela

That whole post was very nicely expressed, CarolM.

Thanks Angela. I appreciate that.

[wachusettgirl]

Wordkeeper, your posts resonate with me because I also have parents that are in their 70's and aren't very generous. Neither of them is mentally ill, thank goodness, and they are still together, so that part of our history is probably much less painful for me.
I have an older sister who is divorced and completely broke, in fact probably way in debt as well. She lives in a crappy place, and has had alot of different jobs, or has been unemployed. My parents keep refusing to "bail her out", treating her as though she is a child or a teenager, while she is in her 40's. I also would love to be able to ask them for support with a business venture, but feel like that is probably not an option.
My parents don't really enjoy travelling, or spending their money on themselves, and they certainly have pleny of it to share...
I keep asking myself why don't they want to spread their wealth around now, while they're alive to enjoy the happiness and abundance that it brings to their children, and grandchildren, and to help us in our time of need?
Then I try to understand them, and I think that they have lost or are losing alot right now: their looks, their identities as professionals, their friends, their health... One of the very few things that they still have control of in their lives is wealth.
I think that giving to us would give them great joy, but I also realize that they have so much fear about losing one of the only things that they have left.
I can empathize with you because it is a very frustrating position, not to mention all the emotional baggage that comes with familial relations. I wish you the best with resolving all of the issues with your parents, and manifesting everything that you want!

[WordKeeper]

Thank you Wachusetts Girl.

It helps me to to write this stuff out. Much of it has been long repressed and that was NOT good. The more I write about it the more I am able to identify my frustration and then I can find ways to release it.


As I struggled with this issue here a friend helped me see that money was a currency of love in my family and that my desire to borrow money from my father or mother was as if I were presenting an I.O.U. to my parents - for a commodity that they simply don't have....

I am sorry to hear about your experience with your parents as well. It seems almost as if a mere desire to help would be all the gift that is needed. If these parents just - wanted - to help. As a mother - that lack is really not possible for me to understand but as an adult I realize that I must find the means to let it go and move on.

[spirit4711]

@Wordkeeper, when I had read your original post, I connected with how I was thinking before. Expecting things (money in your case) from outside resources (your parents), feelings of frustration ('why don't they do this for me?') and helplessness ('I'll never make it without their help'). That was how I was thinking, and maybe some of it is true for you.

What shifted me and my perception is that at one point I fully experienced that I, and I alone, am responsible for whatever happens in my life. I saw that I was labeling people, limiting them in the process. I set expectations for them ('they must help me') and I created disappointment when they didn't meet those expectations. Once I really let that in (and that was painful) I could make other choices. And that was powerful and liberating!

Is my life roses? Yes but the thorns are there too. My awareness has increased and I still fall in the same old traps now and then.

How does this relate to you and your need for money and your parents? Only you can tell. I can make some observations:
- you are limiting yourself (I assume you don't have the relationship with your parents you really want and need)
- you are limiting your parents (putting them in a labeled box they can hardly get out of; trying to make them change and mostly creating frustration on your and their side)
- you are limiting your creativity to find other ways to create money in your life. There are many more resources for you to discover. How about taking this as a challenge and prove to yourself and others that you can create money and abundance? How would that feel? What needs to happen for you to create that?

Go for it! You are truly and literally worth it! Tell us what you need for supporting you in this.

[WordKeeper]

Tell us what you need for supporting you in this.

Good question. Thanks for asking. I'm not sure but I will think about it and give you an answer. Some kind of support and encouragement but I'm not sure in what form.

Spirit - I am not as trapped or as limited as the original post suggests. I find that getting some of this stuff down on "paper" is part of the process of unsticking. Putting it down draws it out of the subconscious to the conscious where it can be dealt with and out of the unconscious to the sub where it can roil around before it is drawn out to the conscious where it can be exposed to the light.

I could have told you before I wrote that original post that such a mindset is counterproductive but I find that exposing those feelings is effective in two ways: for one it keeps me from repressing such thoughts b/c they are out of synch with I/M and two it drags up some other junk attached to such thinking.

It works for me to have the courage to expose these silenced voices that are driving my dysfunction. These thoughts and feelings are at the root of my limiting beliefs but unless I expose them I cannot release them and replace them.

I find posts like yours are very helpful because they encourage me and give me the room to expose these thoughts that are working against me without slamming me with recriminations. The freer I feel to open up to these destructive parts of me the faster I will heal and the deeper I will heal.

So perhaps you have given me the help by offering your own experience in a non-judgemental way and by simply asking what my needs are rather than telling me what I need to do. I feel infinitely strengthened by your post and greatful as well.

I am moving forward in the I/M process of manifesting money. I am exposing some of my fears and limiting beliefs. I am building faith that all abundance is present for me and for us all.

I am not afraid that I won't have money to pay my debts and expenses and that is a significant step forward. I am curious and excited to see how the abundance will be manifested. I know it will be a fantastic experience and I look forward to sharing it.

Here is a first step forward. My 20 year old cat is not doing well. I owe my vet and have been back and forth about what to do. Finally I decided to go to the vet today. The person at the desk asked for payment before I was seen. I explained that I didn't have the money today but would pay in July. She said my cat couldn't be seen. I asked her to speek to one of the owners about it and she walked away without a word. After a while a vet came by and then later the vet who owns the place came and asked how I was. I told him that I was behind and would pay and he said - "Don't worry about it. If you need anything just ask."

When I said I would pay in July I meant it. Not that I know how. I just know that I will. When the vet said don't worry. I didn't hear - don't pay - I heard I know you will and it will be right on time.

It is all coming together right on time even my limiting beliefs are lifting right on time. Those exposed here and those I am not yet aware of. Right on time.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by WordKeeper

So perhaps you have given me the help by offering your own experience in a non-judgemental way and by simply asking what my needs are rather than telling me what I need to do. I feel infinitely strengthened by your post and greatful as well.

That's awesome. Perhaps it will inspire you to let go of your own judgement about your "mean" dad, and spread the strength and gratefulness? That would be true wealth -- having so much strength and gratitude that it spreads even to those you have resisted.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by WordKeeper

...
So perhaps you have given me the help by offering your own experience in a non-judgemental way and by simply asking what my needs are rather than telling me what I need to do. I feel infinitely strengthened by your post and greatful as well.
...

Thanks! I'm happy to have been of service, and even happier to see you shift towards what you want to achieve!

...
It is all coming together right on time even my limiting beliefs are lifting right on time. Those exposed here and those I am not yet aware of. Right on time.

You're a powerful person.

I have a challenge for you that may support you. If you want to know what it is, send me a PM.

[Acting Like Godot]

Here is an important point to grasp.

There are many possible ways to manifest the same end result. Which of those possible ways is likeliest to succeed? That depends on your own knowledge of your own consciousness.

Observe this:

Originally Posted by WordKeeper

I have a wealthy father and would like to borrow some money from him ....

He is a mean man

Either you have to unravel your thoughts about your father being mean, or you have to unravel your thoughts about the money having to come from him.

Up to you.

[Strem2]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Here is an important point to grasp.

There are many possible ways to manifest the same end result. Which of those possible ways is likeliest to succeed? That depends on your own knowledge of your own consciousness.

Observe this:



Either you have to unravel your thoughts about your father being mean, or you have to unravel your thoughts about the money having to come from him.

Up to you.

This is so true. If you are unsure about how to "unravel" those thoughts, try Ho'oponopono. This has worked for me every time. People change their tune when I use this technique.

It helps you to take responsibility for everything, including the response of any person you are negotiating with.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by wachusettgirl

I have an older sister who is divorced and completely broke, in fact probably way in debt as well. She lives in a crappy place, and has had alot of different jobs, or has been unemployed. My parents keep refusing to "bail her out", treating her as though she is a child or a teenager, while she is in her 40's.

Frankly, I'd be much more willing to "bail out" a child or a teenager, than someone in her 40s.

Not to sound unsympathetic, but I actually can understand your parents' perspective somewhat. At some point, surely you have to let your children go out there into the world and fend for themselves and be independent. And you have to stop being responsible for "bailing" them out.

[Angela]

I thought the same thing, ALG. It seems to me that by "bailing out" a person in her 40's, you really would be treating her like a child -- a child who is incapable of taking care of herself.

[WordKeeper]

Acting and Angela - perhaps you have a point but then again there are times that adult individuals go through difficult times and need a helping hand.

There are countless accounts of experiences of helping people in need in which both sides were transformed. One such account is The Same Kind of Different as Me.

What a different place our country would be if it were not or our charitable communities! "No man is an island, no man stands alone" is a concept that points to the connectivity that is life giving.

[jazzfreak11]

To the OP:

The posts that have been going on here are great advice for things to do on your end of things. However, I would like to share 2 more things.

The first is on the same topic of your end of the deal. This is the "cleaning" technique from Joe Vitale's Zero Limits and is about ho'opanopano, as somebody above recommended. Accept your father's state of mind as YOUR responsibility (not your FAULT, but your RESPONSIBILITY). Then just constantly say to yourself, to him, and to God, "I love you, i'm sorry, please forgive me, thank you." And just repeat that over and over. Let it become a life mantra.

Secondly, you may try the Silva Method. With the Silva Method you can learn ways to make certain encounters go a certain way or to influence other people from the alpha state. It used to be called the Silva Mind Influence System for a reason! Do some research.

Best of Luck!

-Ryan

[WordKeeper]

I got it!

Now it is time to mete it out to debtors carefully and wisely.

Time to go for the big one - I intend to begin a business which generates a comfortable income for me and my employees that benefits customers and employees alike.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by WordKeeper

... there are times that adult individuals go through difficult times and need a helping hand.

That's for sure. And a wealthy parent handing money over to his poor, indebted adult child -- it's more like putting a band-aid on a geyser, or buying an alcoholic a drink -- it's not doing her much of a favor. Far more valuable would be if the child could learn the inner resources that the parent has to offer -- the inner resources that have that parent generating wealth and abundance.

[WordKeeper]

wmw

[Angela]

Originally Posted by WordKeeper

Angela - you are an extraordinarily judgemental human being.

And you are an extraordinary producer of irony! (see, cuz, you are judging me to be judgmental a human being, as opposed to my words or behavior... oh, never mind.... )

Anyway, it was an evaluation, rather than a judgement. I did make the bold assumption that the sister has a brain in her head, which is the operative one. I apologize if the woman has no brain, because then my evaluation would not be valid. A person with a brain would get more lasting, abundant value through being available to the inner resources that have her a GENERATOR of abundance, than if she were merely "bailed out" -- handed some money.

Wachusettgirl, the younger sister, appears to have gotten some great inner resources for abundance, and seems to recognize that no one owes her charity. The older sister, though, and now I AM making an assumption (correct me if I'm wrong, W-girl) seems to have a poverty consciousness -- a low threshold for wealth. If money were handed to her, chances are that with her very small "vessel" for having money, it would immediately flow out again. If she were to open up and receive the inner resources her little sister has to offer, she might be able to increase her capacity for abundance, and free up the flow of limitless wealth into her life. That's too bad for Wachusettgirl, who sounds like she'd be a good investment.

Like I said, handing money to someone who lives in a poverty consciousness, if that poor person doesn't increase their capacity for abundance, isn't really doing the poor person any favors. It's a very short-term fix -- a band-aid on a hole in the dyke.

[Strem2]

Originally Posted by Angela

-- a band-aid on a hole in the dyke.

I think you meant dike???

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Strem2

I think you meant dike???

Yes, I meant:

dyke
n dyke, dike [daik]
an embankment built as a barrier against the sea etc.