IM - it works!! Now what?

[Gracestars]

About a month or two ago I posted a thread about a man I met at a party and who I totally hit it off with! Unfortunately he had recently entered a relationship. We had a great conversation into the night, and that was that. My last post was about manifesting unavailable people. Since then I have cleaned up my attitude and energy field and focused on being happy within myself, single or otherwise. But... I did first visualize and imagine the feeling of this man contacting me (as a single person) and us having a wonderful time together, for the highest good of all of course! And then I forgot about it and got on with being happy with me!

Well whaddya know - after two months of no contact (we only met once being at the party) he got in touch and we had dinner last night!

Pretty cool, huh?

I'm still getting sneaky little doubting, 'what if' thoughts popping into my head though... Any suggestions for keeping this thing on the up?

Cheers.

[Lil Chris]

Wow Gracestars, that's awesome...

Step One - Completed (congratulations)

Step two - Repeat Step One

[magic1]

don't think...just allow...easy huh! NOT!

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

I'm still getting sneaky little doubting, 'what if' thoughts popping into my head though... Any suggestions for keeping this thing on the up?

With time you'll realise you don't have to actually do much at all to create the world. Your ego gets involved, then gets bored or forgets and then things seem to change and you notice the changes that seem awesome

Welcome to being conscious

Judge

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

About a month or two ago I posted a thread about a man I met at a party and who I totally hit it off with! Unfortunately he had recently entered a relationship. We had a great conversation into the night, and that was that. My last post was about manifesting unavailable people. Since then I have cleaned up my attitude and energy field and focused on being happy within myself, single or otherwise. But... I did first visualize and imagine the feeling of this man contacting me (as a single person) and us having a wonderful time together, for the highest good of all of course! And then I forgot about it and got on with being happy with me!

Well whaddya know - after two months of no contact (we only met once being at the party) he got in touch and we had dinner last night!

Pretty cool, huh?

I'm still getting sneaky little doubting, 'what if' thoughts popping into my head though... Any suggestions for keeping this thing on the up?

Cheers.

Don't attribute it to IMing then you won't be stuck wondering if you are doing the right thing and have to do certain exercises in certain ways to make things happen to your liking.

You are already going down the road of doubt and making sure you don't mess it up with questioning how to keep this thing on the up side.

Just continue with the "And then I forgot about it and got on with being happy with me!" part.

[TonyToneTone]

Hey Gracestars! It looks like you are on the right track. Just let it flow or set an intention for what you want to happen with this man. If any doubts come up, just go back to that positive image you have of you two and get back into that good vibe.

Good luck and feel free to keep us updated as to your progress.

[Gracestars]

Thanks everyone. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Dreamline]

Doubting is natural. Dwelling is the IM killer. Just have fun and forget about it.

Jennifer

[SmartAlx]

Well, good for you. But (and I do not mean to condemn you. I don't mean to accuse you of anything. Your heart is good I am sure.) have you considered the other girl? Do you wonder if your manifestation might have somehow cost her the relationship with the man you are hoping to be with now? I don't mean to throw a wrench into the works, but there is so much talk about how good and harmless I-M is on this website and I don't see anyone even considering the negative effects. Yours is a perfect example of the well meaning I-M practitioner winning and the I-M ignorant losing.

Do we know that the other woman would have kept the man had you not done your intention? No. They might not have been meant for each other. But it's also possible that she and you are very alike and the man you are interested in would have been happy with either of you. How do you know that your intention wasn't the straw that made the difference?

I don't mean to sound negative or accusatory. I know you didn't mean for this to happen and I realize that you had no obvious intentions towards this specific man (although if what everyone is telling me is true, you might have subconsciously manifested a relationship with this specific man). What's done is done and you appear to have him. Don't feel bad about it. I just wanted to try to open people's eyes to the dangers of what you all are doing with other people's lives by using the LoA on them. We live in a cooperative society. I know that is sometimes lost with the increasingly individualistic mentality being advocated today. So please don't forget it. We need cooperation so we really should consider the other people we affect, especially with a power as strong as the LoA.

[Lana]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

But... I did first visualize and imagine the feeling of this man contacting me (as a single person) and us having a wonderful time together, for the highest good of all of course!

...

SmartAlx, I think that "for the highest good of all" makes the difference here. Since Gracestars kept on with her life for two months without trying to interfere with his relationship with the other girl, don't you think that things played out for the good of all people involved? I would think that his previous relationship wasn't meant to be and that's why it ended.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Lana

SmartAlx, I think that "for the highest good of all" makes the difference here. Since Gracestars kept on with her life for two months without trying to interfere with his relationship with the other girl, don't you think that things played out for the good of all people involved? I would think that his previous relationship wasn't meant to be and that's why it ended.

If what you believe about I-M is true, then yes. But that does presuppose that your positive intentions create positive outcomes for everyone involved 100% of the time. But we all know that good intentions oft go astray, right? "The power of positive thinking" could just be wishful thinking.

My point in all of this is that so many people on this website just reject the idea that there is any danger outright. The assumption is that if we try to do good then nothing bad will happen. If you raise any objection on the website the response is always "but we intend to do good so how could anything bad happen?" That is exactly your response. It's a pretty short-sighted assumption. One that doesn't have any backing whatsoever. The popular theory is all based on desire... you WANT it to be 100% benevolent because that would enable you to keep using it willy-nilly, without ever taking the time to consider the long term ramifications. You can be completely selfish. But if you start to discover that the power of the LoA could be harmful, you'll have to start to treat it with respect and even fear.

Yes, I could be wrong. Maybe it is like discovering something great like teflon. But it could also be something like studying radioactivity. The original scientists that studied elements like uranium got radiated. Some of them died because of their exposure. They thought their science was harmless too. We just don't know and until we do it's really quite foolish to go playing around with it as if it's completely harmless, especially when you are using it on other people and creating life changing events for these people.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

But that does presuppose that your positive intentions create positive outcomes for everyone involved 100% of the time.

In the alternative, why do you presuppose that your 'non-LOA' negative intentions do not create negative outcomes for everyone involved, 100% of the time?

Having said that, in Gracestar's context, there is some obvious room for concern about causing harm to a 3rd party.

So the answer is quite simple. Gracestar can continue to manifest for an ideal mate, in a non-specific manner (that is, she does not "target" any specific individual). She manifests for this, in a manner for the highest good of all concerned. Meanwhile she stays clear of all men who are currently involved in a relationship with someone else. Simple ....

[rawxstasy]

I did first visualize and imagine the feeling of this man contacting me (as a single person) and us having a wonderful time together

She manifested him contacting her as a single man. I believe that's what happened. So she did not "destroy" another relationship, the guy and the previous girl were not a match for each other. If she intends for the highest good and if it was for the highest good that the man and previous girl be together, then I don't believe he would have contacted Gracestars- no matter how much I"M ing she had done.

[Gracestars]

I did absolutely consider her, and I did not visualise them breaking up, only that if he were to be single, in due time, if it was for the highest good of all, that he would then get in touch with me.

But it may interest you to know that either I am still clearly not in control of my thoughts and ability to manifest, or as you seem to suggest, I have manifested a negative outcome inadvertently. what do you make of this interaction?

Either way I feel sad and crappy. Ah well.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

... you WANT it to be 100% benevolent because that would enable you to keep using it willy-nilly, without ever taking the time to consider the long term ramifications.

No. You want it to be 100% benevolent, BECAUSE you have considered the long-term ramifications.

Actually the ramifications are not even necessarily long-term. They could turn around and zap you pretty quick.

This is simply karma at work (oh and for those who do not know, the Law of Karma is pretty much the twin sister of the Law of Attraction).

What you think about, you get. Eg you think about wrongfully taking something that belongs to someone else - that could quickly manifest. But very quickly - something of yours will be taken away. Because that's the kind of vibe you've putting out into the universe.

It is my belief that if you seek to use the LOA or other powerful mental techniques to do harm to others, you not only get the retribution, but you get the retribution in a magnified form. Simply because when you start manipulating reality from alpha or theta state, you are manipulating reality with a magnified, intensified form of thought.

The magicians call it the Law of Threefold Return, or the Law of Three. Do black magick, and it returns to bite you - three times harder than the person you bit.

[Zas]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

But it may interest you to know that either I am still clearly not in control of my thoughts and ability to manifest, or as you seem to suggest, I have manifested a negative outcome inadvertently. what do you make of this interaction?

Either way I feel sad and crappy. Ah well.

I responded to your thread there . . . There's a lot of things in your words that would limit/harm your situation in terms of LOA. I didn't get too much into LOA/I-M stuff given that you posted that thread in the relationships forum, and who knows if readers there want to see so much talk better suited to this one, lol.

Anyway, it might be helpful to rewrite some of the stuff you've said there in a positive way or in your ideal way . . . Like in a journal, or just saying it in your head. For instance, write about how you see relationships working out fairly all the time for both sexes. Write about being surrounded by great men. Write about being constantly surprised by how outstandingly people behave around you, particularly men. Maybe focus on how easy it is to understand people you're interested in and how they don't really give mixed messages.

That confusion you're experiencing is definitely a more specific sign of a larger and more general issue (which seems worth exploring.) Anyway, best of luck.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

In the alternative, why do you presuppose that your 'non-LOA' negative intentions do not create negative outcomes for everyone involved, 100% of the time?

How does this invalidate my argument? It doesn't. It is a red herring designed to confuse the argument. It is a fallacy so let's stay on topic.

Having said that, in Gracestar's context, there is some obvious room for concern about causing harm to a 3rd party.

So the answer is quite simple. Gracestar can continue to manifest for an ideal mate, in a non-specific manner (that is, she does not "target" any specific individual). She manifests for this, in a manner for the highest good of all concerned. Meanwhile she stays clear of all men who are currently involved in a relationship with someone else. Simple ....

Again, this depends on the idea that your theories of how the LoA works is true. But no one knows that.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

No. You want it to be 100% benevolent, BECAUSE you have considered the long-term ramifications.

Actually the ramifications are not even necessarily long-term. They could turn around and zap you pretty quick.

This is simply karma at work (oh and for those who do not know, the Law of Karma is pretty much the twin sister of the Law of Attraction).

What you think about, you get. Eg you think about wrongfully taking something that belongs to someone else - that could quickly manifest. But very quickly - something of yours will be taken away. Because that's the kind of vibe you've putting out into the universe.

Man you just can not escape the new age trappings can you? How can one have a discussion with anyone that can not open their minds enough to understand the other side's point of view? Every response from you guys is "but if she keeps a positive frame of mind then the outcome will be positive." But that fails to address my concerns.

This is how we keep arguing about this:

Me: What if a positive frame of mind isn't enough to create a positive outcome for all parties involved?
You: As long as we maintain a positive frame of mind then nothing bad will happen.

You keep going in circles. You don't answer my question. You can't imagine a world in which the LoA doesn't work the way you want it to work. You can't imagine a malevolent force behind the LoA and using it to manipulate you. There is too much "religion" in that belief and since you are so black and white about religion you refuse to accept the possibility that it might be true.

It is my belief that if you seek to use the LOA or other powerful mental techniques to do harm to others, you not only get the retribution, but you get the retribution in a magnified form. Simply because when you start manipulating reality from alpha or theta state, you are manipulating reality with a magnified, intensified form of thought.

The magicians call it the Law of Threefold Return, or the Law of Three. Do black magick, and it returns to bite you - three times harder than the person you bit.

Well, you are talking about intention again. I wonder if intention is not enough though. You reap what you sow. But we all know that in the real world, farmers sow fields only to have a tornado rip the entire field asunder. Intention is only a part of the equation. There has to be more. And until we understand more about it, it needs to be handled with care.

[Lil Chris]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

But we all know that good intentions oft go astray, right?

It's in this knowing, that YOU might go astray... Take responsibility for what you believe, you can believe anything you want and you'll always be right. Ponder that for a moment...

A Belief is the construct for what you experience and it's dynamic, they can change at any time...

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

"The power of positive thinking" could just be wishful thinking.

Or there could be more to it... Explore the possibilities...

[Zas]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

This is how we keep arguing about this:

Me: What if a positive frame of mind isn't enough to create a positive outcome for all parties involved?
You: As long as we maintain a positive frame of mind then nothing bad will happen.

I'm not a strong LOA proponent (though many benefits from the practice have arisen with my developing experiments.) And I can't speak for people here . . .

But if your question is, "What if a positive frame of mind isn't enough to create a positive outcome for all parties involved?"

My response would be that that is a fair question because most people don't want to hurt anyone else . . . However, the answer wouldn't be found by sitting around and asking "what if?" to strangers on a message board. Especially since "positive" is such a subjective thing in itself. I mean, a cat eats a mouse. That's positive for the cat, not so much for the mouse. (or maybe not positive for the cat if it ends up getting sick with some disease.) It's not really a positive or negative situation in itself, is it? If you're a fan of cats, you might arbitrarily call it positive. If you a fan of mice, you might do the opposite.

If someone says, "As long as we maintain a positive frame of mind then nothing bad will happen," then that's the way they view things and that's the way their experience will play out.

I think it's a pretty good viewpoint, because making the best of life does involve looking out for yourself on top of other things. And if someone can tap into the more loving aspects of the universe, then everyone else should be able to as well. So, if LOA is at work, then just as someone attracts a partner, that partner attracts them. And, if someone else lost a partner in the mix, then they attracted a failed relationship from which they can learn and grow (or maybe they have attracted singlehood so they can start a newer and more amazing one. )

The "but what if" question comes across as part of a fear and suspicion-based perspective. Most people posting here try not relate to that anymore. It's doesn't really serve anything except to create a universe (or simply "an experience") deserving of being feared and . . . suspicion'd of, heh.

I mean, most people here are used to that line of thinking already- A big part of exploring LOA is breaking away from the idea that the world and all the people in it are primarily scary and dangerous and harmful and there's nothing you can do about it. I feel pretty good that if the LOA had such negative consequences, they would be pretty visible.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Zas

A big part of exploring LOA is breaking away from the idea that the world and all the people in it are primarily scary and dangerous and harmful and there's nothing you can do about it.

But without those scary and dangerous people who would I fight against? Who would my enemy be? I NEED an enemy.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Zas

If someone says, "As long as we maintain a positive frame of mind then nothing bad will happen," then that's the way they view things and that's the way their experience will play out.

There. Right THERE. That's it. That's right where you turn around and start talking in circles. You ASSUME that this is the way their experience will play out. But you don't know it. And even if it does play out positively for them in their immediate vicinity, it doesn't mean that the overall effect will be positive. Our vision is limited to our own experience. We cannot see the long term effects.

I think it's a pretty good viewpoint, because making the best of life does involve looking out for yourself on top of other things.

The people that we generally consider to be the best examples of humanity are rarely selfish. They do not try to look after themselves and get on top of other things. They live for other people. And THAT is the philosophy that I support. We should put ourselves LAST, not first.

Imagine a world in which everyone lives for everyone else! You want to be enlightened? THAT is enlightened! If you put yourself first, then you can only count on one person. But if everyone puts themselves last, then we all have maybe a 100 people that we can count on!

And if someone can tap into the more loving aspects of the universe, then everyone else should be able to as well.

Again, you assume that using the LoA this way taps into a "loving" aspect of the universe.

The "but what if" question comes across as part of a fear and suspicion-based perspective.

I can appreciate that coming from your perspective that my doubts come across as fear and suspicion. They are fear and suspicion. But I see the opposite in all of you. The fear of fear! You are afraid to consider the negative effects of the LoA because: 1) your belief in the LoA says that you will manifest what you fear 2) if you do find out that there are often negative effects from the practice of I-M, you might have to take some personal responsibility and you might find that you should NOT try to manifest that job promotion, for the greater good.

Can't you see that all of it is self fulfilling and circular? You aren't allowed to doubt because your belief in doubt makes it not work. So you try your hardest to only believe in the system. If I was a malevolent force in the universe I could not think of a better way to deceive people. Encourage them to believe a system so thoroughly that they are afraid to doubt it.

Consider if you were that malevolent intelligence. What could YOU do with an army of LoA advocates that believe what you tell them? YOU get to decide which intentions to manifest and for the people who don't get their intentions manifested they will just assume that they somehow weren't perfect and trusting in their intentions enough. They won't blame the process. They will blame themselves. Then you will have everyone doing your bidding.

Most people posting here try not relate to that anymore. It's doesn't really serve anything except to create a universe (or simply "an experience") deserving of being feared and . . . suspicion'd of, heh.

That's a bit like saying keeping a fire extinguisher in the kitchen doesn't serve anything except to create a cooking environment full of the fear of fire. The fact is that it's prudent to keep a fire extinguisher in there. We use fire. We also respect it. But that doesn't mean we fear it.

I mean, most people here are used to that line of thinking already- A big part of exploring LOA is breaking away from the idea that the world and all the people in it are primarily scary and dangerous and harmful and there's nothing you can do about it.

And if I was a malevolent force in the universe these people are precisely the types of people that I would target for exactly that reason.

I feel pretty good that if the LOA had such negative consequences, they would be pretty visible.

Right now. But the long term effects haven't manifested yet. In 50 years you all... WE all might be very sorry about it. Although we might have difficulty pointing any fingers at I-M, just as we have difficulty pointing fingers at the sexual revolution today.

Please keep in mind that I'm not necessarily saying that the use of I-M WILL make bad things happen. But I'm saying that it is foolish to assume that the use of I-M will NOT make bad things happen.

[Gracestars]

Okay, wow, there is a lot to mull over here... but what I'm reading is a lot of talk about danger, negative intention, and manipulation. I am open to the idea that my intention could possibly have had resulted in an undesired outcome, but it must be said once again, that I was not sitting at a dark little altar willing this man to end his relationship and track me down. I merely enjoyed the idea of us having a good time together, if he was available. Really nothing black magic about it.

[Zas]

SmartAlx: I told you I don't really believe in LOA, lol. I've been trying to- I told myself I'd give myself a year to see how it worked out and it's been two months in and I still can't really adopt the full belief, heh. I'll take you telling me that I'm incapable of stepping outside of the perspective as a sign that I'm making good progress though.

Anyway, I phrased my selflessness comment that way assuming you'd read some of Steve's stuff on that. In particular, the How Selfish Are You? one goes with it, as well as one of the lightworker/darkworker ones. I don't expect you to catch up on those, but he describes how, from his viewpoint, complete selfishness has to end up in selflessness and complete selflessness has to end up in selfishness. I get where those statements come from, (though I obviously don't know how such scenarios would actually happen.)

However, I do stand by the statement that you have to look out for yourself to do the most for the world. Because you will burn out otherwise. It's also much easier to provide for the world if you have more behind you (and more to actually give, you know? ).

Speaking personally, I grew up in an amazing, wonderful, and supportive family and have always felt that doing what you can for others is the greatest source of joy. So I went through school always thinking about how when I was rich I was going to donate all this money, and try and give back as much as I can to the world.

It wasn't until I started exploring this LOA stuff that I realized how much control I actually had over my experience. With that came the understanding that I didn't have to wait until I was a rich and famous artist to start sharing money. Now I have regular monthly donations set up for promoting abundance in "less fortunate" areas of the world-- Even though I'm currently qualifying as lower class because I'm right now choosing to make less than $18,000 a year myself. I'm doing just fine and I'm hoping to be able to donate more and more money as I can. I also try to donate time and give other things I can afford to lose wherever the opportunity presents itself.

LOA involves acknowledging/altering/generally working with assumptions. So yes, I am assuming that positive outcomes abound. It's going well.

This talk of "malevolent forces" comes across as making a plea for making negative assumptions. I'm not really understanding this. If you're not a religious or spiritual person, then making the most of a situation with your mind should be comparable to studying for a test or practicing for an interview. Your just making the most with your mind.

If you're a religious or spiritual person, I don't understand why you don't have enough faith in god/energy/karma/the force to know that it is loving/harmonious or at worst "neutral." Do you believe that some negative force in the universe is more powerful than any positive one? If "malevolent forces" are capable of overpowering people against their will, then such forces must be just as "in charge" as any good ones.

Also, it's very strange that you're talking about fifty years from now given that these ideas have been around for far longer. I mean, Wallace D. Wattles' Science of Getting Rich is a very interesting work on such things related to LOA/I-M and was written in 1910 (and based upon mid 1800 concepts of mental healing.) More interesting to me lately are Buddhist concepts of the illusionary nature of reality and some nice Jesus statements like, "And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on." (different translations) or, "Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." (different translations).

If there's any truth to LOA, it would be something universal, so my explorations are going all over the place.

Actually, I was checking out some audio recordings called "50 success classics" and it goes through a number of books by or about successful people (both in money and positive influence). Many of the greatest people have talked about the need to have your idea in mind and to believe in it . . . Also to steadily give as much as you're getting. I think that most people would go crazy with guilt if they weren't giving back to the world.

Anyway, my personality has me relating to you when you say that you support living for other people above all. Lately though, it's a lot warmer to erase the lines between myself and other people. When I'm giving money to people on the street, there's a warmth in me too. I know also that when something amazing goes my way and my closest friends sense that they feed off that light in me. It's such a deep and powerful connection to be able to share the good and it's a lot easier to spread it if you allow yourself to feel its effects too. If you never take some warmth for you as well, then you kinda start to rot inside. Like, you feel good about things but you quickly stifle it because you think that others should be the emphasis. When really there isn't a limit to the good and its great to feel great because it energizes you to do a lot more.

So if we can't see eye to eye on how to explore the nature of LOA, at least we agree about selflessness being an appealing trait. Thinking about those kinds of values just made my heart really happy so I just donated some money to feeding kids in other countries, heh. Thank-you for being that kind of inspiration.

Gracestars: This negativity discussion is largely stemming over from other threads to here and isn't necessarily related to your situation (though it *is* coming up in this thread in your life.) But you know your moral intentions better than anyone else, certainly more than anyone here. (A lot of times negative judgments show a lot more about the people judging than those being judged.) So I believe your intentions are pure. If you're not getting the results you want, then you should tweak your methods . . . But it doesn't mean you're a bad person or that you're doing bad things.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

You can't imagine a world in which the LoA doesn't work the way you want it to work. You can't imagine a malevolent force behind the LoA and using it to manipulate you.

You might not have noticed it, but I already addressed your concerns in other threads.

My simple challenge to you is to spell out the LOA as you think it works, and how a malevolent force might be behind it. Currently, all you do is say it's a malevolent force, malevolent force, malevolent force, without explaining ANYTHING about the who, what, where, how and why's of this so-called malevolent force.

This morning, I went running. As I ran, I told myself: "I'm feeling good ... I'm feeling strong .... Faster, faster .... Keep going ....". To me, this positive self-talk is also the LOA at work. The LOA is at work in all sorts of little thoughts and big thoughts. And thinking the way that I think when I run DOES help me to run further and faster. But sorry, I have difficulty seeing why the devil would be interested in my fitness goals.