What if two manisfestations disagree?

[Desmond]

Example: What if two people are manifesting on a sports game, and they both want the opposite team to win.

What will determine which team wins?

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Desmond

Example: What if two people are manifesting on a sports game, and they both want the opposite team to win.

What will determine which team wins?

There really isn't two people. Some aspects of self chooses winning while others choose to experience losing. There is no conflict.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Desmond

Example: What if two people are manifesting on a sports game, and they both want the opposite team to win.

Each person manifested the existence of the other person.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Desmond

Example: What if two people are manifesting on a sports game, and they both want the opposite team to win.

What will determine which team wins?

Only your intentions manifest as you are the only conscious being here. When there is conflicting intentions, then you are intending conflict.

The Law of Attraction


Judge

[Power]

In a world of Multi-dimension or multi-universe (according to the current physics ideology), in one universe Team A would win and in the other universe Team B would win. Both team would win not at the same universe, but on different universe.

Manifestations occur because of the conscious mind's perception of the illusionary images coming to existence. The conscious mind would be directed to be aware/awake in the manifested universe.

Thus, both team would win. Thus, there are no contradictions with the LOA when it comes to manifestation in a Multi-dimensional universe, even if the two of you are trying to manifest the same outcome. Both person will experience it on different universe.

If you tried manifesting a certain outcome and had not manifested it, it is simply that your conscious perception had not shifted to that awareness/perception or to that universe. Manifestation is a shift of perception in an illusionary universe.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Power

In a world of Multi-dimension or multi-universe (according to the current physics ideology), in one universe Team A would win and in the other universe Team B would win. Both team would win not at the same universe, but on different universe.

Manifestations occur because of the conscious mind's perception of the illusionary images coming to existence. The conscious mind would be directed to be aware/awake in the manifested universe.

Thus, both team would win. Thus, there are no contradictions with the LOA when it comes to manifestation in a Multi-dimensional universe, even if the two of you are trying to manifest the same outcome. Both person will experience it on different universe.

If you tried manifesting a certain outcome and had not manifested it, it is simply that your conscious perception had not shifted to that awareness/perception or to that universe. Manifestation is a shift of perception in an illusionary universe.

You had me at Hello

Then you blew it with your link that promoted the fact that you have all the answers to the questions you pose.

I think you underestimate the intelligence of the collective auidence.

Judge

[MacFly]

Originally Posted by Power

In a world of Multi-dimension or multi-universe (according to the current physics ideology), in one universe Team A would win and in the other universe Team B would win. Both team would win not at the same universe, but on different universe.

Manifestations occur because of the conscious mind's perception of the illusionary images coming to existence. The conscious mind would be directed to be aware/awake in the manifested universe.

Thus, both team would win. Thus, there are no contradictions with the LOA when it comes to manifestation in a Multi-dimensional universe, even if the two of you are trying to manifest the same outcome. Both person will experience it on different universe.

If you tried manifesting a certain outcome and had not manifested it, it is simply that your conscious perception had not shifted to that awareness/perception or to that universe. Manifestation is a shift of perception in an illusionary universe.

Anybody can come up with a theory like that. Just like LoA, it contains a backdoor so you can't doubt it.

Of course, I can't doubt that other universes exist, but you can't prove they do.

I can come up with 535635732658732658 theories, and you can't doubt none of them. But they wouldn't be more than fiction.

[Power]

Originally Posted by Judge

I think you underestimate the intelligence of the collective auidence.Judge

What made you say that?

I totally have respect of everyone's intelligence and I respect their opinions. I don't believe I'm above or more better than anyone else on this entire planet, as well as on this forum.

Desmond had a question (What will determine which team wins?). I was just contributing to the thread and specifically to that question. I wasn't attacking anyone by my reply. My answer was directly to Desmond's question.

I'm sorry if I offended you, but when I replied to Desmond's question, I wasn't underestimating nor questioning everyone's level of intelligence. I was just simply replying back to Desmond.

Originally Posted by Judge

Then you blew it with your link that promoted the fact that you have all the answers to the questions you pose.
Judge

My link doesn't state that
And I didn't pose any questions

Originally Posted by MacFly

Anybody can come up with a theory like that. Just like LoA, it contains a backdoor so you can't doubt it.Of course, I can't doubt that other universes exist, but you can't prove they do.I can come up with 535635732658732658 theories, and you can't doubt none of them. But they wouldn't be more than fiction.

Yep, you are right and I agree.

I mean, here is an idea. I'm not saying that it is right and I'm not saying that it is wrong. I'm just presenting an idea. It's up to whoever reads it to make up their own mind.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by MacFly

Anybody can come up with a theory like that.

Actually, not ANYONE can come up with a theory like that.

You would need to have a Phd in Mathematical Physics from an Ivy League university, and the kind of brains required to be a defence scientist with the U.S Pentagon.

Well, at least that is the background of the person who came up with the Many Worlds Interpretation - his name is Hugh Everett.

Finally, his theory is a phenomenological theory. Which means that it was not a theory that he just dreamed up, while sitting in his kitchen on a rainy Saturday afternoon.

Instead it was a theory that he developed to explain an actual phenomenon - a phenomenon which was (and is) repeatable and observable in a scientific laboratory.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Well, at least that is the background of the person who came up with the Many Worlds Interpretation - his name is Hugh Everett.

"Everett's daughter, Elizabeth, suffered from schizophrenia and committed suicide in 1996 (saying in her suicide note that she was going to a parallel universe to be with her father)."

I gotta say -- that's the most unique suicide note I've ever heard of.

[MacFly]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Actually, not ANYONE can come up with a theory like that.

You would need to have a Phd in Mathematical Physics from an Ivy League university, and the kind of brains required to be a defence scientist with the U.S Pentagon.

Well, at least that is the background of the person who came up with the Many Worlds Interpretation - his name is Hugh Everett.

Finally, his theory is a phenomenological theory. Which means that it was not a theory that he just dreamed up, while sitting in his kitchen on a rainy Saturday afternoon.

Instead it was a theory that he developed to explain an actual phenomenon - a phenomenon which was (and is) repeatable and observable in a scientific laboratory.

So you say it is completely true?

Because the author has a phd?

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by Desmond

Example: What if two people are manifesting on a sports game, and they both want the opposite team to win.

What will determine which team wins?

The stronger thought + action wins.

It's like in bodybuilding. You have two guys with muscle. Who wins in a weightlifting competition? The one with stronger muscles!

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Desmond

Example: What if two people are manifesting on a sports game, and they both want the opposite team to win.

What will determine which team wins?

The team that wins intended to win.
The team that lost intended to loose.

However willful or conscious or LoA-ey anyone gets, there is always something else we don't know about that becomes the source of the manifestation. Making something happen out of our will is an illusion that is really just the ability to tune in and know what to ask for that is already in the works and then allowing it show up.

[Dreamline]

Those are all really interesting and thoughtful answers but remember when the manifestation teachers said that you are not allowed to manifest FOR other people? What do you think those teams are made of?

Other people.

The people playing the sport are manifesting for, or against, themselves.

You really ARE just a spectator.

Jennifer

[joelr]

Originally Posted by MacFly

Anybody can come up with a theory like that. Just like LoA, it contains a backdoor so you can't doubt it.

Of course, I can't doubt that other universes exist, but you can't prove they do.

I can come up with 535635732658732658 theories, and you can't doubt none of them. But they wouldn't be more than fiction.

Many Worlds may yet be proven in the lab. We have seen 1 electron in 2 places, possibly it's other world counterpart.

Nothing definite yet. There has got to be a way to break that dimensional barrier! Or find a back door?

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Desmond

Example: What if two people are manifesting on a sports game, and they both want the opposite team to win?

The universe explodes.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Power

In a world of Multi-dimension or multi-universe (according to the current physics ideology), in one universe Team A would win and in the other universe Team B would win. Both team would win not at the same universe, but on different universe.

But in THIS universe Team B loses. And we are back at square one: contradiction. One of the participants who used I-M didn't get what they intended to manifest.

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Actually, not ANYONE can come up with a theory like that.

But anyone can use that theory to explain away any doubts raised about the LoA.

Originally Posted by wolfgang

The team that wins intended to win.
The team that lost intended to loose.

However willful or conscious or LoA-ey anyone gets, there is always something else we don't know about that becomes the source of the manifestation. Making something happen out of our will is an illusion that is really just the ability to tune in and know what to ask for that is already in the works and then allowing it show up.

I guess you have never heard the term "upset." Happens all the time in sports.

Originally Posted by joelr

Many Worlds may yet be proven in the lab. We have seen 1 electron in 2 places, possibly it's other world counterpart.

Nothing definite yet. There has got to be a way to break that dimensional barrier! Or find a back door?

And yet, even if many worlds is proven to be true, the conundrum remains because in this universe two people created two opposite intentions. Since those two people remain in this universe, the resolution of the paradox must remain in this universe.

I'm with Anagogy.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

But anyone can use that theory to explain away any doubts raised about the LoA.

Well, the theory does have its competitors. All of which are phenomenological theories seeking to explain the same collapse of the wavefunction. The competing theories include theories like the "consciousness causes collapse" theory, and the Bohm interpretation.

[fitx3]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

The stronger thought + action wins.

It's like in bodybuilding. You have two guys with muscle. Who wins in a weightlifting competition? The one with stronger muscles!

Not necessarily. It's actually the one who APPEARS to have the stronger muscles.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Making something happen out of our will is an illusion that is really just the ability to tune in and know what to ask for that is already in the works and then allowing it show up.

I understand your theory. You could try to test it. Try whims and fancies. You ask for this and you ask for that and you ask for this and you ask for that and if it all keeps popping up, then it might suggest that your theory is wrong.

Also, it may not be an either/or suggestion. Eg there are times when we consciously create and then the thing pops into our reality; and at other times we are tuning in and seeing what's already about to pop, and THEN it pops into our reality.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by Desmond

What will determine which team wins?

Both teams will win.. as both will split into a multitude of parallel realities where one wins and one loses.. and both events will take place.. per my understanding..

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by themaster

Both teams will win.. as both will split into a multitude of parallel realities where one wins and one loses.. and both events will take place.. per my understanding..

I say again...

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

But in THIS universe Team B loses. And we are back at square one: contradiction. One of the participants who used I-M didn't get what they intended to manifest...

...even if many worlds is proven to be true, the conundrum remains because in this universe two people created two opposite intentions. Since those two people remain in this universe, the resolution of the paradox must remain in this universe.

[Acting Like Godot]

When two teams participate in a competition, first and foremost, they must have created a competition.

According to the rules of their own creation, one team will be a winner and one team will be a loser.

And so it is - what they have thought about will come to pass.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

I say again...

And your point is?? teams are made of players 8 to say 16 players.. each one of them like myself.. launches whole worlds.. (or really we just tune into a new vibrational/parallel reality)

In this scenario both have agreed to

a. honor the other individuals scenario
b. allow themselves to choose for themselves the experience in which they wish to have..

So in this desired scenario which is limited in its idea fashion.. a billion and one possible outcomes can and will happen.. and certainly happen on a daily basis.. some individuals will find that they were part of the winning team.. some will find that they honor just one individual and allow him to feel the win.. both outcomes are satisfactory and choice and preferences are always honored if you see that you have a choice.. you might also notice in this outcome for some the choice is "I really don't care who wins"

Let me ask you a dumb question..

Why is it this or THAT?

Why can't it be this and that?

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by themaster

Let me ask you a dumb question..

Why is it this or THAT?

Why can't it be this and that?

If this precludes that then it can not be this and that. That's why. And in the case of the OP this is precisely what we have, in THIS universe. This or that.

[themaster]

This or that is a statement of limitation.. why do you think the universe is so limited?

Does your imagination not hint to you a idea of unlimitedness?

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by themaster

This or that is a statement of limitation.. why do you think the universe is so limited?

Um, because of logic:

If A is not equal to B and A is true then B must not be true.

No amount of opinionated mystical doublespeak is ever going to change that fact.

The equation that I gave is the conditions of the OP's question. If the conditions are not considered in your answer, then you haven't answered the question.

Does your imagination not hint to you a idea of unlimitedness?

Sure, but not in the cases in which something IS limited. I have no control over whether or not something is limited. It's not for me to decide. I cannot change the laws of the universe. I cannot violate logic. And neither can you nor anyone else, even if they think they can with the power of I-M.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

I cannot change the laws of the universe. I cannot violate logic. And neither can you nor anyone else, even if they think they can with the power of I-M.

Man where were you in 1486 we could have used you in the court of Ferdinand II to stop that mad columbus guy from wasting the king/queen's money???

I could throw out a 1,001 and examples of people like you saying "that can't be done" and then our history even showing it was done..

Your argument is fundamentally flawed even by the history we have in our current society.. I say and I believe.. if I can imagine, it can be built/created.. I say if I can imagine it, it exists somewhere, somehow.. and I say and I believe that even if what I say isn't true.. what can it hurt? where is the loss? what is wrong with a little optimism and a little bacon in the morning??

Unfortunately since your limited you have every right to disagree (and I'll even go you one step further.. and say I'm limited.. but I'm working on being unlimited.. I take a guess you like staying limited )

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by themaster

Man where were you in 1486 we could have used you in the court of Ferdinand II to stop that mad columbus guy from wasting the king/queen's money???

Wrongo buddy. I would have said, "interesting. This idea of the Earth being round should be studied more. Give him the money." I follow science and logic. Logic has been around for thousands of years and it is an absolute. You can not deny it. Well you can deny it all you want, but you would be WRONG. Logic IS truth. The fact is that the question has conditions. Those conditions are absolute. Most of the people try to side-step the conditions of the question and give an answer that doesn't match up with the question. It's kind of like you asking your kid if he wants meatloaf or spagetti and he says "cake."

So let's revisit the question:
What if two people are manifesting on a sports game, and they both want the opposite team to win?

The conditions are:

• two teams
• two people, both I-M experts (implied)
• both manifest opposing outcomes
• one team will win
• only one team can win
• one team will lose
• if one team wins then the other team must lose
• both I-M experts do remain in this universe because they could meet in this universe and compare notes
• if one team wins then one of the I-M expert does not get his manifestation
• both outcomes MUST exist within THIS universe because both I-M experts remain within this universe.

So... considering these absolute conditions, what is your answer now? The "many worlds" answer does not meet the conditions of the question because it requires that one of the I-M experts leave this universe. Therefore it's not applicable to the question. It's kind of like answering a math question with a biology answer. You HAVE to consider all of the conditions of the question. You HAVE to. It's not an option. If you don't, then you did NOT answer the question!

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Logic IS truth.

LOL ... and you claimed to be the philosopher.

Logic isn't truth. Logic is a form of reasoning concerning the structure of statements and arguments, in formal systems of inference and natural language.

Eg:

Premise 1: Smart Alx is a cockroach.
Premise 2: All cockroaches are insects.
Logical conclusion: Smart Alx is an insect.

That is a logically correct conclusion. However, whether the conclusion is true or not depends on whether the premises are true.

And just by the way:

The "many worlds" answer does not meet the conditions of the question because it requires that one of the I-M experts leave this universe.

..... your comment clearly shows that you do not know what the "many worlds" interpretation is.

MWI does not say that one IM expert would leave this universe. MWI says that there would be at least two universes, and each of those universes would have both experts in it. In one universe, Team A would win and in the other universe, Team B would win.

But this is so like you .... Yakking on and on, without actually knowing what you are yakking about. Seriously, if you are here to save us from ourselves, you really ought to try to do a better job.