Release for an obsessive mind?

[Wax Frog]

Of late I've been taking special notice of the 'release' end of the LoA 'formula'. I also realize that I can be quite obsessive in my thinking (I even have OCD, albeit of a mild and inobtrusive sort; in fact I have actually learned to make practical use of it!).

Are there any tips or techniques out there aimed specifically at someone with an obsessive mind?

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

Are there any tips or techniques out there aimed specifically at someone with an obsessive mind?

Well you have to get to the root of the cause if you want to change its symptoms. You don't need yet ANOTHER thing you think is wrong with you. There is only one thing that is wrong with you, and that one thing is that you have a misperception of your own value. If you ever get that under control, you'll notice all these other minor things start to fall away, as you discover your real authentic self.

SHAME (toxic shame) is the cause of just about everything under the sun. It will only diminish when you learn to appreciate who you are.

So instead of asking us what are some tips to deal with OCD, let's ask you some questions.

ARE you willing to love and appreciate yourself? What are you willing to do in order to love and appreciate yourself?

[viking4525]

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

Of late I've been taking special notice of the 'release' end of the LoA 'formula'. I also realize that I can be quite obsessive in my thinking (I even have OCD, albeit of a mild and inobtrusive sort; in fact I have actually learned to make practical use of it!).

Are there any tips or techniques out there aimed specifically at someone with an obsessive mind?

I agree with Cylon - you must always look at the root cause and ask yourself the simple question do you REALLY want to ... change, love/appreciate yourself, do whats necessary for YOUR greater good etc etc.

There are lots and lots of "programs" out there that help "force" the mind into accepting detachement The Sedona Method and Emotional Freedom Technique etc ... but its the root that you really should look at as its this INTERNAL dispute that would stop you manifesting what you truly desire.

When you look at The Process there is another "law" to take into account, the Law of Love. Couple that with the Law of Attraction, look at the vibrations you emit (in reference to your other thread response), then operate the Law of Detachment. Simply meaning do you REALLY care or NEED that "thing" to "make" you happy?

The more happiness, love, acceptance you throw out to life/the Universe etc the more you get back.

Its all good

[cylon]

Originally Posted by viking4525

...its this INTERNAL dispute that would stop you manifesting what you truly desire.

Precisely. Shame, low self-value. We get to the point where something better is in sight then BAM! we pull back. Self-sabotage, addiction, OBSESSION, anything to distract us from moving forward... because if we move forward, and make it, we may be exposed for the frauds we think we are, we could get hurt, the world could fall apart. Doesn't sound fun. So we don't let ourselves grow and experience life.

Our egos/toxic shame/ whatever you want to call it, THINKS it's protecting us by distracting us with minutiae, but it's really choking us, making us die a slow, miserable death. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will.

------

I told you about my trip. I obsessed for weeks before hand about all the horrible things that could happen to me all alone in a big city, or out in the wilderness on that long drive. And even when I was there, while it felt so wonderful, I was scared to death of getting on another huge bridge to come home, because it was located right in downtown and I was convinced I would get lost, wind up in a bad area and get murdered. And I actually DID get lost (probably because I obsessed about it) but I didn't get murdered. I managed just fine and lived to tell the tale.

Point is, I was scared of what could happen but I made myself just get through it and now I am so happy I went, and look forward to going again.

And on THAT note, watch the movie "Yes Man" with Jim Carrey.

[Wax Frog]

Shut up and meditate? [half-kidding] It would fit the recent pattern - stop looking for external stuff, cavalries and knightesses <?> in shining armor, and just do the 'Work' ('Be')

[macabhay]

Originally Posted by cylon

We get to the point where something better is in sight then BAM! we pull back.

I think this is where the principle of detachment or 'release' comes in.

In the process of personal, spiritual growth we will undoubtedly be presented with many opportunities to give up things that have and continue to hold us back.

If we can see that there is a greater gain that will come from this temporary "loss", then we are very fortunate, and that renunciation/detachment will be fruitful and wholesome.

However, if we are afraid, overly attached, and weak in our faith for ourselves, then this opportunity for detachment may be the cause for pain.

Genuine detachment is giving up something (a self-destructive possession, habit, mental pattern, etc.), for something else of greater, more beneficial value. Practically, becoming detached from one thing due to being attached (healthily) to something else of higher meaning.

This is to be differentiated from pre-mature or false detachment, which is simply detachment without a higher attachment, or without any clarity of what this detachment is really for.

False detachment can lead to resentment and feelings of duplicity within your heart. Whereas real detachment is unflinching and strong based on self-love and honesty.

[viking4525]

Originally Posted by cylon

Precisely. Shame, low self-value. We get to the point where something better is in sight then BAM! we pull back. Self-sabotage, addiction, OBSESSION, anything to distract us from moving forward... because if we move forward, and make it, we may be exposed for the frauds we think we are, we could get hurt, the world could fall apart. Doesn't sound fun. So we don't let ourselves grow and experience life.

Our egos/toxic shame/ whatever you want to call it, THINKS it's protecting us by distracting us with minutiae, but it's really choking us, making us die a slow, miserable death. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will.

------

I told you about my trip. I obsessed for weeks before hand about all the horrible things that could happen to me all alone in a big city, or out in the wilderness on that long drive. And even when I was there, while it felt so wonderful, I was scared to death of getting on another huge bridge to come home, because it was located right in downtown and I was convinced I would get lost, wind up in a bad area and get murdered. And I actually DID get lost (probably because I obsessed about it) but I didn't get murdered. I managed just fine and lived to tell the tale.

Point is, I was scared of what could happen but I made myself just get through it and now I am so happy I went, and look forward to going again.

And on THAT note, watch the movie "Yes Man" with Jim Carrey.

totally.

Sometimes the "fear" is so fake it never really existed, if we "face" whatever it is we expose that thought of fear as fake and gain more strength from it.

The Yes Man is an outstanding film when you take into account about what we are talking about here (not one of Jim's best movies but anyway) ... when you see HIS SYNCHS in the movie, I was blown away!!! Most people just will look and see those "coincidences" but I was impressed.

If you check out movies now (and songs) and see the "links" they make to The Process and you will be shocked.

I will need to re watch Forrest Gump again because someone gave me the heads up between The Process (present moment awareness, synchs etc) and Forrest Gump's life quite recently!!

[Wax Frog]

Always back to the Rock and the Rapids, not just a real-life event, but a persistent symbolic theme...

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

Shut up and meditate? [half-kidding] It would fit the recent pattern - stop looking for external stuff, cavalries and knightesses <?> in shining armor, and just do the 'Work' ('Be')

You don't want someone to come save the day. That robs you of your own self growth. To build up self-esteem you have to do things that make you happy and that make you appreciate your ability to live your life. No one else can give you that feeling.

Yes, you have to do the work. But realize, the work is simply getting rid of the notion that you are defective. That's all it is. To know that you could start a new life whenever you choose.

Get some books on shame, cognitive behavior (feel good handbook is good) but do the exercises and learn to look at yourself more objectively. You have to do it. No escape. No shortcuts.

But you will have to go through a period of change and being uncomfortable. If you aren't willing to endure that, nothing will change for you.

[cylon]

Amazon.com: The Feeling Good Handbook: David D. Burns: Books

[cylon]

Originally Posted by macabhay

In the process of personal, spiritual growth we will undoubtedly be presented with many opportunities to give up things that have and continue to hold us back.

If we can see that there is a greater gain that will come from this temporary "loss", then we are very fortunate, and that renunciation/detachment will be fruitful and wholesome.

This reminds me of when I quit smoking only a few months ago. I really thought I was giving something up that was a benefit to my life. But in reality, I have gained so much more in terms of health, and just feeling better because the nicotine is no longer dominating my mood.

But for the longest time cigarettes were my "happy place". This is embarrassing but I literally heard the words "cigarettes are my friends" going through my mind one evening, and I felt love and appreciation for them like they were real people who cared about me.

It scared the crap out of me when I realized what I had said to myself, and I think that was when I decided, yes, I am quitting.

And my life has changed so much! Now I can go to the gym without passing out on the treadmill, I have natural joy in my body I haven't felt for years and years.... so many benefits.

The gain from my 'temporary loss'.

[WordKeeper]

Wax Frog - you have received responses on this thread that speak profound truths. In my many years of reading self-help forums I have not witnessed a thread with as much clarity and depth. You are ready for this journey. And with this thread you have asked for permission and support to embarque and the response has been extraordinary.

The time is now. You need not back paddle. It is time to go forward. You will not be alone and you have no way of knowing how fortunate you are. To have the extraordinairy support that I witness here is a precious gift.

To overcome your fear and doubts look them in the face and call them FALSE. They are not real, they are shadows that only appear real. YOU make them real or show them for the smoke and mirrors they are. Call your fears and doubts FALSE and they will fade before you.

When you feal doubt rise up in you, remember those here who believe for you that your time has come. You do have the power to push forward. It exists. All it requires is your claiming it.

[Angela]

Heya, Waxie! I'm finding that in my TIME Techniques sessions, many negative patterns of OCD are significantly reduced or even just disappear -- to the point where people can't *find* them.

[marinik]

Wax get a "jingle" of your own and use it when ever you start obsessing. I use "circus" music and make fun of myself. I even put on a pair of huge rabbit ears on my head when I was persistent in not letting go of negative thoughts.

[Eric Roosevelt]

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

Are there any tips or techniques out there aimed specifically at someone with an obsessive mind?

Get yourself a game-boy.

... or start reading a book, do crosswords, or something that's actually productive and challenging. Excess mental energy can be channeled in many different ways, and most efficiently if you're actually pushing yourself a little bit. Go clean your room! Get your mind off whatever you're trying to attract, just for a moment.

The subconscious mind can actually take care of many of those minor frustrations in life, if we only let it.

You could also just sit still and say STOP. Observe yourself, become conscious of the thoughts that are causing you to feel obsessed. Breath deeply to get some oxygen into your muscles. Feel your heart pumping, and feel the blood flowing out from your heart and around your body. Deep breath again, and focus.

[viking4525]

Originally Posted by Eric Roosevelt

Get yourself a game-boy.

... or start reading a book, do crosswords, or something that's actually productive and challenging. Excess mental energy can be channeled in many different ways, and most efficiently if you're actually pushing yourself a little bit. Go clean your room! Get your mind off whatever you're trying to attract, just for a moment.

The subconscious mind can actually take care of many of those minor frustrations in life, if we only let it.

You could also just sit still and say STOP. Observe yourself, become conscious of the thoughts that are causing you to feel obsessed. Breath deeply to get some oxygen into your muscles. Feel your heart pumping, and feel the blood flowing out from your heart and around your body. Deep breath again, and focus.

You could also just sit still and say STOP. Observe yourself, become conscious of the thoughts that are causing you to feel obsessed. Breath deeply to get some oxygen into your muscles. Feel your heart pumping, and feel the blood flowing out from your heart and around your body. Deep breath again, and focus.

Yes this is a good thing to do to ... observe. If you sit still and "observe" your heart rate, you will notice that is slows and calms. Also with breathing. Notice that on the "out breath" there is a point of "nothingness". A VERY SMALL gap, but try it and see. Find the point of nothingness with your normal breathing and see if you can find that "nothingness" when it comes to your conscious mind (the "monkey chatter") that we all have.

All the answers are already there inside you ... when you are ready to accept you will suddenly see them

[young]

Surrender to the obsessive thinking.

Allow it to happen. You see when we're happy, we tend to allow it automatically as a result of conditioning. Because we surrender to happiness, it passes by quickly. Although, happiness is our true nature. Why pain lasts longer is because we resist it.

Now the reason why you continue to be an obsessive thinker is simply because you resist being one. Once you allow it and be the detached observer (true nature), then it'll disappear. What we resist, persists. Don't think about it. Do nothing and watch! Doing nothing is wisdom.

Hope this helps!

[Angela]

Young, have you ever experienced OCD-like obsessive thinking? It occurs differently than run-of-the-mill obsessive thinking, I think. Surrendering to it, just observing it, may occur to someone who is doing OCD thinking as similar to surrendering to a lion who is eating you slowly. I've read that that's a good idea, because it makes for a far less painful death. But it might not strike the person as a terribly inspiring solution.

Then again, it might!

[young]

Angela, that was a sincere response.

No, I haven't experienced OCD. However, all is the same.

I understand to a person who has a severe anxiety disorder may find my solution useless. It is simply the disorder taking over. The pain-body (Eckhart Tolle's concept) in that person is feeding on the obsessive thinking. You continue to think insanely because you (identified as pain-body) love it.

When you see, with unattachment, that there is a conceptualized pain-body, you are free and you will automatically surrender to it because you realize the pain-body isn't you.

The more we let go of the is-ness of this moment, the more joyful & in peace we are. It doesn't matter what condition the body & mind is in. There is nothing you can do about it. You are not a do-er. Remember it is the body & mind which is suffering, not you. You suffer because you think you are the body & mind. Trust in me, and you will find out for yourself.

Do nothing and watch this moment!

Hope this helps!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by young

Do nothing and watch this moment!

Hope this helps!

I also love Eckhart Tolle and what he has to say. I just don't think he's who I'd call if that lion was eating me.

[viking4525]

Originally Posted by young

Angela, that was a sincere response.

No, I haven't experienced OCD. However, all is the same.

I understand to a person who has a severe anxiety disorder may find my solution useless. It is simply the disorder taking over. The pain-body (Eckhart Tolle's concept) in that person is feeding on the obsessive thinking. You continue to think insanely because you (identified as pain-body) love it.

When you see, with unattachment, that there is a conceptualized pain-body, you are free and you will automatically surrender to it because you realize the pain-body isn't you.

The more we let go of the is-ness of this moment, the more joyful & in peace we are. It doesn't matter what condition the body & mind is in. There is nothing you can do about it. You are not a do-er. Remember it is the body & mind which is suffering, not you. You suffer because you think you are the body & mind. Trust in me, and you will find out for yourself.

Do nothing and watch this moment!

Hope this helps!

Hiya Young,

Yep you are spot on, however you must remember some people are more ready to receive the truths. A lot of people look to results and cures outside of themselves as the ego cannot accept responsibility for its own conditioning. Its all conceptualisations.

When the individual is ready they will have that energy movement come from within and look to acceptance. If they still have resistance it means that the ego is still fighting the intuitive voice.

[Angela]

Yeah, I suspect that OCD-thinking is (what a lot of people call the ego)'s frantic attempt to have control in the moment -- the brain's way of coping with it's unwillingness or perceived inability to be present -- to surrender.

So telling it to just be present or to surrender is like telling someone who is believing a thought like, "I'm powerless." You can tell her, "Look, obviously you're not powerless. Just stop believing that, already," till you're blue in the face, but it's not going to make much of a difference, because the purpose of that belief is to protect it from what you're saying.

To remove the purpose of OCD-thinking -- protection from lack of control -- without getting the learnings, tends to feel like a threat to the thinker, and for good reason! I think it makes a lot of sense to get the learnings, and find a way to feel safe, protected, and composed so that the obsessive thinking is just no longer needed, and it just easily and effortlessly disappears.

At that point, the power of now makes a lot more sense to the person who has the resources he needs, and only has to practice recognizing and letting go of the remnants of ocd-thought.

[young]

Originally Posted by Angela

I also love Eckhart Tolle and what he has to say. I just don't think he's who I'd call if that lion was eating me.

Eckhart Tolle's concepts finger to the truth. There are few other teachers who provide concepts in a similar way. Some are more deep.

Trust me, I wouldn't call Tolle either

[Angela]

Originally Posted by young

Eckhart Tolle's concepts finger to the truth. There are few other teachers who provide concepts in a similar way. Some are more deep.

Trust me, I wouldn't call Tolle either

I agree. I very much love what he says and how he says it, and find it very helpful.

I wonder if he carries an iPhone?

(or maybe it's a wePhone!)

[young]

Originally Posted by viking4525

Hiya Young,

Yep you are spot on, however you must remember some people are more ready to receive the truths. A lot of people look to results and cures outside of themselves as the ego cannot accept responsibility for its own conditioning. Its all conceptualisations.

When the individual is ready they will have that energy movement come from within and look to acceptance. If they still have resistance it means that the ego is still fighting the intuitive voice.

Hey Viking,

What I like to say to these people is to at least be attentive to their thoughts & bodily sensation. They will see the insanity of the ego. They will realize they aren't the conceptualized ego, but the witness of it. The ego doesn't even exist because it is simply a collection of ideas which you identify as a self.

[young]

Originally Posted by Angela

Yeah, I suspect that OCD-thinking is (what a lot of people call the ego)'s frantic attempt to have control in the moment -- the brain's way of coping with it's unwillingness or perceived inability to be present -- to surrender.

So telling it to just be present or to surrender is like telling someone who is believing a thought like, "I'm powerless." You can tell her, "Look, obviously you're not powerless. Just stop believing that, already," till you're blue in the face, but it's not going to make much of a difference, because the purpose of that belief is to protect it from what you're saying.

Yup exactly. OCD shows the severeness of our collection of ideas. It is a strong attempt to take control.

The mind will always oppose surrender because it knows that would mean no control. What it doesn't know is that it never had control ever! Yet, ignorantly, it says "yes I do" always.

Telling someone to surrender wouldn't make a difference unless they are aware of the experience of how it feels to surrender.

Many people don't know that they surrender all the time because it is unconcious. Only when pain happens, will they find surrender so difficult.
Why? Because the mind isn't conditioned to surrender to pain. This is where concious surrender is freedom!

[WordKeeper]

My favorite author on obsessive thinking and compulsive actions is Dr. Jeffrey Schwartz. Here are two sites that may be of interest to you Waxy.

ISCID - Jeffrey M. Schwartz
Brains On Purposeâ„¢: Neuroplasticity

This issues of OCD or obsessive thinking may have begun with a wounding to the ego but once it takes on the looping neural patterns that can actually be seen via fMRIs and PET scans the conversation about the ego is much like closing the barn door after the horse is out.

These "four steps" that Schwartz lays out are very helpful indeed.
Dr. Jeffrey Schwartz' Four Steps - Westwood Institute for Anxiety Disorders

[kismet]

cylon, I'm curious about your theory of toxic shame. What does shame have to do with fear? Also, where does this shame come from? What are we ashamed of? And how do we release shame? I'm not sure what it has to do with obsessive thinking, but I know I have a lot of shame and self-sabatoge and I have no idea why or where it came from. And if Sedona, etc. is a "forced" method, then what is the best natural method for it?

I take it we are talking about not just general rumination of something, but actual anxious rumination. I agree with Young, but I also agree with Angela that it is often a paradox and catch 22. I have struggled with OCD for years now, have studied and researched it forever, talked at length with therapists etc. It is not an easy trap to untangle yourself from because of the dualistic nature of the intentions and motivations of the mind. While one part of your mind and yourself wants to free yourself from it, another part of your mind doesn't want to be free of it and thinks it is protecting you with it. One part of yourself is battling another part of yourself that is ancient, automatic and unconscious. And both are valid. Fear is not a bad thing, to be obliterated and condemned. It is a built in mechanism for survival and protection. It is just like pain in itself is not a negative thing, as it is also there for a reason and purpose to guide and warn you of destruction. If we didn't have a pain response, we would lose all kinds of body parts before we even realized it happened. BUT, there are problems when these natural and positive self-protective systems OVER-REACT or react to self-delusions. Like with auto-immune problems and inflammation problems in the body, it is just an over-reaction of something that has a positive role to play. It is a over-sensitation. That is why therapy for it works off the process of habituation to the stimulus that causes the over-reaction in the mind and emotions. It is not really such a personal thing. It's just reprogramming this glitch in the hardware of the brain.

Look into the operant conditioning fundamentals of the works of B.F. Skinner. Read his experiments on producing superstitious behavior in pigeons. Classics in the History of Psychology -- Skinner (1948) We are pre-wired and conditioned in certain ways because it is the way that our minds learn. It is totally plastic though, so if we know how it works, we know how we can manipulate it and change it. It is not easy though for the person, anymore then it is for a drug addict in the midst of their addiction. It takes a lot of discipline as well as a willingness to put up with and develop tolerance for extreme discomfort to just allow the fear and anxiety to be there without giving in to it to escape from it for the moment. It is about surrendering, it is about surrendering to the discomfort and pain of the anxiety and letting the lion eat you alive. But if you can, you will realize that the lion was all a hallucination, even though the pain was real, and you are still alive.

Fighting anxiety and obsessive thoughts is a lot like trying to get out of quicksand. The more you struggle to get out, the quicker and deeper you sink into it. You cannot 'directly' control anxiety. The more you try to control it, the more it controls you, and you get anxious about being anxious. It then gets locked up in high anxiety. It's only when we let go of the struggle to try to get rid of the anxiety and surrender to the idea that the anxiety might ALWAYS be there, and we need to accept it and live in tolerance of it. Then it may or may not go down, but it will have the flexibility to move up and down the scale of intensity instead of being locked on the high level, and we don't have it as an excuse to not live our lives anymore. We are only in control of how we respond in action to it. We also tend to be habitual. If we make a habit out of something we will continue to do it even when we no longer feel a strong motivation to do it, until we break those habits. I still have my compulsions, but they don't bother me as much and I don't spend much time or energy on the obsessive aspect of them anymore. They are more like a mindless habit, so perhaps they will be easier to brake now if I choose to. I am looking into finding a good NLP couch to help me.

[cylon]

I originally read about it in "Healing the Shame That Binds You" by John Bradshaw.

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by Angela

Young, have you ever experienced OCD-like obsessive thinking?

Again, I'm fortunate in that mine is mild. It was a bit of a problem when I was younger, but the fires that drove it (and the much more severe panic attacks) faded with physical maturity and (apparently) improved nutrition.