Loss

[moonrambler]

I'm starting this thread as an offshoot of a conversation from

Science and Intention - Manifestation

Originally posted by Angela
p.s... I just read through that old thread and was delighted to discover it's about this very issue -- skepticism and moving from a "No" perspective to a "Yes" way of life. Funny!

Originally posted by moonrambler
That was a cool thread, interesting to do some time travel and see how things and people have changed.

How does a person say "Yes" to all the crud that happened yesterday and begin with now? I used to be a very "Yes" person. I became a rather "No" person because things happened that were so painful I found it unable to say "Yes" to them. I see intellectually that the "No" keeps these events alive. Saying "Yes," though, seems like a betrayal.

Originally posted by Angela
How, specifically, is being a "Yes" to what has led you to where you are right now (e.g., what happened yesterday) a betrayal? Who is betrayed by that?


Well, let's look at loss. I don't handle loss well. I keep trying to fix things in reverse. When my mom died, for instance, I found it very difficult to move forward. I just wanted to go back in time and figure out a way to get her to quit smoking, get some exercise, live fully, and so on. The idea of saying "yes" to life after that was tough. It kind of felt like the universe split there, with one segment going on where she had made some changes and we went happily forward, and the other segment I was stuck in. I didn't like this segment and didn't want to continue forward with it.

I'm experiencing a bit of a reflection of that now after having lost my little buddy cat after nearly 17 years. I don't want to kick into that long-running denial phase again because I've seen that it does nothing to resolve anything anyway. I don't know how to say "Yes" to somebody dying and leaving me, especially when I held some responsibility for the situation, as we are in caring for pets. I bump up against the discussion here about how we create everything that happens.

I guess there's a mix of stuff like I failed them somehow, that I "attracted" this difficult event, that if I make a brand new happy life it betrays them because it happened due to losing them, and so on.

I have a bunch of gunky thoughts/feelings about all this.

[Angela]

Wow. I'm sorry about your pain. I did something like that when my mom died; kept wishing I had been smart enough to be a more loving daughter while she was alive, and wishing there was some cosmic loophole where I could have her back or at least talk to her long-distance somehow. I felt such longing, like if only I could figure it out, I could have her again.

If there is an afterlife, my mom would be irritated as hell by this attitude of mine.

She didn't spend all those years preparing and loving me and worrying about me, just so that I'd ♥♥♥♥♥ it all off when she died and go into a funk about how horrible it was that she wasn't there anymore. She would feel terribly betrayed and pissed off if I wasted my time here feeling bad -- she considered it my duty to feel really good, and to live as fully as possible while I'm here. Anything less, she'd wonder why she had bothered with all the pain of raising me!

You had a wonderful mom for as long as you had her, and that is something you could cherish and be grateful for, if you want to; or you could be mopey that you don't have her around anymore. Which way of being do you think your mom would feel more betrayed by? What do you think her hopes and dearest wishes were for you as you live your life? Who put you in charge of her choices? You were not the boss of her, or anyone else except one, are you? Taking 100% responsibility and making choices for others are NOT the same thing, you know. When are you going to be willing to resign as Chief Person in Charge of Everyone Else's Well-Being?

And your fluffy buddy died at the tender age of 17, huh? He had just barely rolled out of the feline womb and opened his eyes? I'll bet it feels that way, it hurts so much when a pet dies. And you know that 17 years is a very long, full life for a cat, don't you. You did a great job of caring for him and loving him and helping him live a life that other cats would envy. You think he would want to outlive you? Wasn't it a great time for him to go, or would you rather he had lived another ten, rickety, agonized, mournful, crippled years, just so that you wouldn't have to deal with losing him?

You are a lovely, loving person, and you are doing a marvelous job here. I agree with my mom that our job here is to feel really good, and to support others in feeling really good, if they choose that. And you must put your own oxygen mask on first -- no one is going to feel good around you if you're not feeling good yourself. The kindest, most generous thing you can do in the world is to make sure your well-being is covered by YOU.

The most loving, most valuable tribute you could make to Mom and to Kitty Buddy is to boldly take on living a life that you are in LOVE with, a life they are so rooting for you to live. Personally, I think that involves forgiving yourself -- seeing that you, like everyone, are doing the best you can with the resources you have available -- and being grateful for the people, animals, events, and CHOICES that have brought you to where you are, here, right now.

Anyway, that's what I think.

[TheSceptic]

I'm sorry to hear about your mom and your cat.. I've also been through such losses..

17 years seems to me like a quite long life for a cat, so I suppose you must have taken good care of it. Do you feel responsible for the death of your cat?

Learning to accept the truth of the following prayer (I'm actually an atheïst, but it works for me anyways) helped me a lot in accepting big losses:

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.

For me, following the wisdom of this prayer is one of the most difficult things in life.. Yet it somehow always comes back to me as a key piece in handling the most difficult situations.

Do you think that there is anything you can change about the past?

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Angela

What do you think her hopes and dearest wishes were for you as you live your life? Who put you in charge of her choices? You were not the boss of her, or anyone else except one, are you? Taking 100% responsibility and making choices for others are NOT the same thing, you know. When are you going to be willing to resign as Chief Person in Charge of Everyone Else's Well-Being?

Yeah, I know, believe it or not I've made great strides in that direction over the years

However, it does get disconcerting, this LoA theory of taking 100% responsibility . . . but not having to be 100% responsible for what happens with other people, when they are in my life and I love them.

And your fluffy buddy died at the tender age of 17, huh? He had just barely rolled out of the feline womb and opened his eyes? I'll bet it feels that way, it hurts so much when a pet dies. And you know that 17 years is a very long, full life for a cat, don't you. You did a great job of caring for him and loving him and helping him live a life that other cats would envy. You think he would want to outlive you? Wasn't it a great time for him to go, or would you rather he had lived another ten, rickety, agonized, mournful, crippled years, just so that you wouldn't have to deal with losing him?

She's a she, actually And I do look at the 16-1/2 years and am very grateful for the long time. However, I also look at my friend's 19-year-old cat and my other friend's (gasp) 25-year-old cat, and feel jealous. I would rather my cat lived another 3 or 5 happy healthy years, and I guess I get mired into wondering why that couldn't happen. If there's an IM process, why couldn't I create that? Or is there actually something going on behind the scenes where this was time for the cat to hit the road? Or is it all just random crap? (Garbage, all of it!)

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by TheSceptic

17 years seems to me like a quite long life for a cat, so I suppose you must have taken good care of it. Do you feel responsible for the death of your cat?

No, I don't feel responsible. I think I actually did a pretty good job with this cat. She lived a rather queenly life although I'm sure she would tell you otherwise.

Do you think that there is anything you can change about the past?

There's the question. Now, I may be asking the wrong person (Sceptic), but I always wonder, why not? Why can't we change the past? And why is it considered a bad thing to want to change the past? Why can't we decide: Ok, this is a bad dream, I don't like it, I'm going to wake up now and start over from Point August 12, 2008.

I had a really weird experience once several years ago where this same cat died. I don't remember exactly what had happened, but I could not believe it and was determined to make it a mistake. I wrote down on a steno pad something like, "This is all a mistake and the cat is still alive and well." Then I walked all around my hometown repeating that over and over. Then I woke up. And it turned out that it was all a mistake and the cat was alive and well.

Now, why, in the dream, did that seem like an action which had potential to fix things, but here, outside of the dream, it seems inadvisable because it's well, wack?

[Angela]

Moonrambler, 100% responsibility is not an LoA theory. People who talk about the law of attraction use the perspective of 100% responsibility (some of them), but when I talk about being 100% responsible, or being at cause in your life, I'm not referring just to I/M and I'm certainly not referring to any whooo-whooo impractical new-agey thing that you can do Someday. I'm talking about RIGHT NOW -- boldly looking at who you are being, and noticing that where you are RIGHT NOW is the result of all of the choices you've made so far, both conscious and unconscious. It is NOT: being at fault, or being in charge, or thinking it is the reason why others are not doing or being what you want them to do or be (including being alive).

You've made lots of choices in your life, and some of them worked well and some of them didn't work so well in living a life you love. Just like everyone else. People who are being effective -- people who make a positive difference in their own life and in the lives of others, and who are getting the results they want -- look at the results of their choices, and they make new choices based on that feedback.

Your choice right now looks like: "I won't enjoy and celebrate it because that would mean betraying the people and pets that aren't here with me." That's what is behind the scenes in what comes now in your life and what comes next. It is not random, and you are fooling yourself if you believe that when you next experience pain, resistance, gloom, guilt, jealousy, and wondering why these things happen, it's "random crap." It is YOUR THOUGHTS that are creating your now and your future; you are choosing No Enjoyment and No Celebration of Life right now. You have your reasons, blah blah blah. Reasons are like a**holes, everyone has them. You can keep your reasons, and you can make a choice NOW that works really well for you.

If continuing to choose "I won't enjoy life because it means betraying my loved ones who aren't here to also enjoy it" and "my cat should have lived as long as my friend's cat did" and "I've made great strides, but I still believe I'm in charge of other people's (and cats') well-being" works really well for you in living a life you love, by all means, keep choosing thoughts like those. It's a valid choice!

But I get the strong sense that something is nagging at you to feel good on purpose (other than myself, of course. I mean something internal. ) If that is so, then it's time to make a dynamic, bold change in your thoughts. The thoughts themselves might be small changes, just enough to have you feeling a bit better. But the CHOICE to begin thinking thoughts that feel good when you think them, and to practice letting go of the crap -- that is huge, dynamic, bold, and world-transforming.

Okay, I'm done nagging you. I won't bother you with this being at cause stuff anymore, unless you ask me to. Or unless I forget and slip up.

Lots of love,
A

p.s.... I don't know about changing the events that happened in the past, but I know FOR SURE that we can completely and utterly transform how those events occur for us NOW and thereby transform our present and our future.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Angela

But I get the strong sense that something is nagging at you to feel good on purpose (other than myself, of course. I mean something internal. ) If that is so, then it's time to make a dynamic, bold change in your thoughts. The thoughts themselves might be small changes, just enough to have you feeling a bit better. But the CHOICE to begin thinking thoughts that feel good when you think them, and to practice letting go of the crap -- that is huge, dynamic, bold, and world-transforming.

Yes, something is nagging at me besides you -- I know from experience that feeling gloomy and resistant for any length of time is not beneficial.

It's been difficult for me working with these IM concepts because although I've felt like I was trying to move toward something, it may be that instead I've been resisting. So much has seemed like such a struggle.

What I decided this past weekend, as a small or big step, was to let go of clinging to the rocks, and go back into the flow, a place I haven't been in a very long time. I've been trying so hard to make things happen, that I'm exhausted. This includes a lot of mental and emotional energy trying to heal the cat, only to have her say "See ya."

The flow is a strange place for me now, I've been trying so hard to make things happen and stop other things from happening.

However, I've spent too much time in my history thinking, "I can only be happy if things could go back the way they used to be," to know that's destructive.

[TheSceptic]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

There's the question. Now, I may be asking the wrong person (Sceptic), but I always wonder, why not? Why can't we change the past? And why is it considered a bad thing to want to change the past? Why can't we decide: Ok, this is a bad dream, I don't like it, I'm going to wake up now and start over from Point August 12, 2008.

I have learned from Angela not to call things "bad" And that's quite sensible. There's nothing "bad" about wanting to change the past. The question for me, however, is how much that helps you. I mean, if you cannot change the past (which I believe is true), then wanting to change the past doesn't help you in any way, and possibly only makes you frustrated.

You know, that's actually one of the positive things I like about a skeptical world view: I get a pretty clear picture of what I cannot change. And what I cannot change, I'm better of accepting so that I can focus my energy on the things that I can change (such as, the future through the now).

Originally Posted by moonrambler

I had a really weird experience once several years ago where this same cat died. I don't remember exactly what had happened, but I could not believe it and was determined to make it a mistake. I wrote down on a steno pad something like, "This is all a mistake and the cat is still alive and well." Then I walked all around my hometown repeating that over and over. Then I woke up. And it turned out that it was all a mistake and the cat was alive and well.

Now, why, in the dream, did that seem like an action which had potential to fix things, but here, outside of the dream, it seems inadvisable because it's well, wack?

Dreams are really weird.. My (rather boring) reply would be: in a dream the normal laws of nature do not apply and everything is possible. In the waking world, the laws of nature hit you like a brick wall whenever you try dream stuff (such as walking through the foresaid brick wall).

My philosophy is that I'm much better of accepting that death is part of life. If someone dies I am also sad because life is such a wonderful thing, and someone I love is no longer able to enjoy this wonderful thing. If life is so horrible, why would I be sad if someone died? It may sound strange, but this reasoning actually makes me realise that life is wonderful.


It's your choice really. You are free to believe that you can change the past. But by putting your energy in trying to change the past, you do not put energy into trying to shape your future. That's a balance you cannot change. And even though I cannot with 100% certainy say that the past cannot be changed, the odds are stacked quite high against it. So perhaps the future is a better bet? Or do you like risks?

[Acting Like Godot]

You talked to your cat before. And it talked back.

What makes you think you cannot talk to it now? By using exactly the same mental technique as you did before.

[tragblack]

Originally Posted by Angela

I agree with my mom that our job here is to feel really good, and to support others in feeling really good, if they choose that. And you must put your own oxygen mask on first -- no one is going to feel good around you if you're not feeling good yourself. The kindest, most generous thing you can do in the world is to make sure your well-being is covered by YOU.

This is so damn true, and I just wish I could pound it into my own head faster. I hate how I know all of this great advice and in the heat of the moment, I recognize none of it! I keep on wondering, "Why does nobody want to be around me anymore? Why do none of my friends call?"

Because I'm such a mope!

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by TheSceptic

It's your choice really. You are free to believe that you can change the past. But by putting your energy in trying to change the past, you do not put energy into trying to shape your future. That's a balance you cannot change. And even though I cannot with 100% certainy say that the past cannot be changed, the odds are stacked quite high against it. So perhaps the future is a better bet? Or do you like risks?

I get so many reflections (syncs), it gets very weird sometimes. Even if I'm here at home, they show up in books or even on the tv. Last night I was reading a novel, and toward the end there's something about a rabbit who eats lettuce and peas, which was weird because during the afternoon I had written an article about how some people see rabbits as pests because of their eating habits, which includes lettuce and peas from the garden.

Two sentences later, the girl says to her doctor, "I wish I could time travel." He says, "Any particular time?" She answers, "The moment before the bad things started happening."

This was such a reflection of what I'd written in this thread, it was startling.

He responds to her, "Well, that would have to be before the universe existed."

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

You talked to your cat before. And it talked back.

What makes you think you cannot talk to it now? By using exactly the same mental technique as you did before.

Yeah, I guess I didn't find the conversation very enlightening before. "Pay attention to me." Pay attention to me because there's something going on you haven't noticed? Pay attention to me because I'm going to be leaving soon?

Then, "I'm tired." I already knew she was tired. I wanted to know how to make her well.

She did show up in a dream last night, but unfortunately I'm having a lot of trouble remembering it.

One night some months after my mom passed, I woke up because I heard her call my name. I had worried that would happen, because for so many years she would come to the bottom of the stairs in my childhood home and call my name to wake me in the morning. When I'd stay there as an adult, often she'd still wake me that same way, if we needed to go out and about in the morning. On occasion when I wasn't there, I'd wake up because I'd thought I'd heard her call me. So I wasn't looking forward to that happening after she was gone.

That one night it happened, and I was kinda bummed and went back to sleep. Then it happened again. And again. I was getting really bothered by this, and then it happened again. At that point it was like the lightbulb went on, and I thought to myself, I should go down there (down the stairs) and see what she wants! I was just barely awake so I went immediately back to sleep and she was standing there at the bottom of the stairs, laughing happily because I'd finally gotten it.

I didn't remember the rest of the dream, and assumed I wasn't supposed to know the information while I'm here, but that once I cross over, I'll remember it then.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

Two sentences later, the girl says to her doctor, "I wish I could time travel." He says, "Any particular time?" She answers, "The moment before the bad things started happening."

Wow! Moonrambler, this is a perfect description of TIME Techniques, which is a particular therapy I've been doing lately that releases stored negative emotion, limiting decisions, and anxiety, and powerfully instills desirable outcomes in your future -- it really is an amazing tool and the people I've worked with look at their lives in a whole new way afterwards, and they look ten years younger.

For the last year or so, I have been obsessed with books about time travel, and now I know that I was just getting ready for the TIME techniques. In fact, everything I've learned and done in my life now looks to me like it was undergrad work for the hypnosis, NLP, and TIME work that I'm doing now.

I strongly recommend that you look into TIME Techniques, and maybe contact a master therapist in your area. I think it would be wonderful for you, if it resonates with you. (You can find a prior, similar version of TIME Techniques on the web, as Timeline Therapy invented by Tad James.)

[moonrambler]

Wow, that's so weird you say that, because I also was very interested in the concept of time travel some years ago, and discovered Fred Alan Wolf's books in that investigation. I even was having thoughts that my purpose in life was to explore those concepts more thoroughly

I hadn't ever heard of TIME techniques before, though. I'll definitely take a look and see what I can find.