If LOA is real, why cannot we prevent death?

[joelr]

Originally Posted by themaster

I highly suggest you search around and find channeled material that you resonate with.. my problem with seth.. is I find it too over complicated for what I need and I have a few problems with it.. basically it's not the communication I want.. I also consider it a 50 and 60’s translation when we have modern information translated in today’s English.. it is also my understanding that we may have not been as open to receive information back then as today so it may have been limited in its content.. (there are consciousness agreements in information is my understanding)

seth says "you can't grow a limb back" that's a offhand unreferenced quote..

Now that doesn't make any sense.. I think anything is possible.. so that doesn't resonate.. I think what seth really meant is.. "in this time space reality the probability of you growing back a limb is very unlikely and would be hard to do.."

I also kind of consider seth's material the highly over-intellectualized (it's got to be hard to make it good) type.. one can see why a follow-up message like abraham was about basics..

Don't get me wrong, I love Seth, Nature of Person Reality and Seth Speaks are my bibles. I've been re-reading them since 1995. I never looked at it as over-intellectual. That would be too elitist since they are my favorite books.
I have trouble with Abraham in the sense that I feel skeptical, like they read Seth and wrote a simplified version. But that's just me, I appreciate that some people are big fans. In fact your explanation makes me see how Abraham is very useful. But I can't totally get past my skepticism.
My fun reading is either quantum physics, cosmology or higher mathematics - Reimann, Cantor, continued fractions, real analysis, transfinite numbers. So I guess I prefer Seth's approach. One important thing is that Seth has many concepts that were unheard of before his time and that are now accepted parts of quantum physics. I need that kind of thing with my skeptomania and all.
I did read an Abraham ebook last year with more of an open mind and I really enjoyed it. Plus the different style of information presentation was refreshing.

I just want one channeler to say something simple like...... e=mc^2, 3.14159265, but not that because we already know that. Some simple profound equation that will be a big part of our future knowledge. Do all the zeros of the zeta function lie at real number 1/2? It's a yes or no question. It's the biggest unsolved problem in mathematics. Why can't they lay down something simple yet profound that will prove beyond any doubt that they are actually an entity beyond physical reality but who once lived many lives on the physical plane. Why can't they access a future (future to our perspective) life and explain a little future science/math from a laymans point of view? That always bugs me.

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by themaster

to be honest I wonder how many of if any.. ever follow what was intended 100%

At time passes, more and more I get the sense I've strayed from my "true" path...

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

3. In some magickal schools, there is this concept of True Will. You can do magick successfully on a 99% of a wide variety of different intentions that you are free to pick and choose for yourself. But once in a while, you'll run up against something that you just won't succeed with. Reason is that its fulfillment would run counter against your True Will, and would lead you away from some deeper plan that the universe has for you.

If you look at all these perspectives, you'll see that there's a hint that a few things you cannot change, but most things are potentially entirely up to you to create as you will.

This is quite similar to the Christian tradition I grew up with, in teaching us how to pray effectively, yet sometimes if the request does not fit in with God's big plan, then the answer is "no." I used to pray like that all the time -- kind of like, "If you think this would fit into the plan, then that would be cool."

The problem is, I started getting real annoyed at God when I couldn't get what I wanted. It was hard because I'm very willfull and sometimes I really wanted what I wanted.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by cylon

Well excuse me. I was genuinely trying to discuss the topic.

[Strem2]

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

At time passes, more and more I get the sense I've strayed from my "true" path...

To follow our path, we need financial freedom.... Financial freedom frees us from money considerations, space considerations, and time constraints.... Hey, sounds like the Garden of Eden to me!

Then we could work on the message of this post, spiritual development that can effect the end of our life!

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by Strem2

To follow our path, we need financial freedom....

Hey! Stop reading my past posts and/or mind!!!

[Strem2]

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

Hey! Stop reading my past posts and/or mind!!!

It touched my heartstrings.... I gave up putting those things aside, about 3 years ago, and it's been a struggle....

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by Strem2

It touched my heartstrings.... I gave up putting those things aside, about 3 years ago, and it's been a struggle....

OK, I can't resist - indeed I never could...

Personal Development > Intention-Manifestation > If LOA is real, why have not I acquired financial independence?

[Jack-b]

Billiardsdude,

Why cannot the LOA prevent my own death? Surely, if I imagine myself living forever I would-wouldn't I?

Because you've never really been born. But we all think we were born into a world we inhabit called planet earth. You were born/arose from your mind.

You are identifying with a part of your mind which you call yourself and this self is impermanent, a flickering appearance and will definitely die; a microscopic atom floating around your awareness of your real self, which is vast.

Your real self, is everywhere and cannot die. It is in all things and once you start identifying with it, you will come to know for yourself that death is only of the form. YOU are everywhere.

We tend to view time from the viewpoint of ourself in form and so any other object we see we assign a fixed time to it, so we say, i was a boy in the past, i look good today, i will be an adult in the future. 1950 was past, 2050 is future. If we take our form out of the equation, there is no time.

Apparently, when you become your timeless self all objects will appear both past present and future simultaneously because you will have awoken to know that all objects and the subject mind have never been apart, ever.

[nightdiamond]

Hi everyone...



From what I've seen, beliefs can range from moderate to the extreme, and in almost any subject you can think of, religion, politics, new age, dog grooming...

For example, a moderate belief with religion and doctors- it's ok to see a doctor.

An extreme belief - going to the doctor and taking medicine is wrong.


It's a basic part of the human condition to take a basic belief and alter it into different forms and different degrees of extremism.


I think the same thing can be applied to L.O.A..

A moderate belief, focus on what you want to attract it...

A somewhat extreme view- Every single thought you have creates your reality.


My way of approaching this is to first prove, at least to myself, that there really are higher levels of consciousness or a higher intellience, then consider the claims about it.

For me, what is the point of believing, debating and philosophizing if you never experience or prove what you are believing, debating and philosophizing about?

It always felt odd and uncomfortable to me, though I love the discussions at the same time..

I remember reading a saying, "philosophy doesn't bake the bread"..

Otherwise L.O.A, what your soul decides to do etc, will end up having the same types of debates that other belief systems do.

So what is the moral of this post? I have no idea!

Take care everybody, good thread....

[moonrambler]

Ok, here's a question. If this whole death thing is just subjective reality, then why is it advised to ask people before we attempt to heal them through IM or whatever? If the people are just part of us, who cares what they think?

If people start believing fully in SR, does that make it easier to make loved ones live longer, like it becomes sort of a controlled fantasy?

[cylon]

I think that's solipsism. Solipsism is the idea that everything exists in your head, and you are the only real person.

SR says that everything exists in consciousness, and not only are the other people not real, but you aren't real either. It's all one thing. They are just as real as you are, and they "are" you. So you're asking yourself if its ok if you heal yourself. You can ignore your own wishes by not asking yourself what you want. Healing another is healing yourself, so is harming another.

And that "yourself" is consciousness. Think of it like your left arm and right arm. They are not you but they are you.

I find it really difficult to put into words.

Steve tried though:

Subjective Reality vs. Solipsism

[cylon]

I'm not sure if me saying "nothing is real" is what I mean. I think what I'm trying to say is nothing is separate, that it's not real as its own entity. And it's as real as we want it to be. At the same time.

Etc.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

If people start believing fully in SR, does that make it easier to make loved ones live longer, like it becomes sort of a controlled fantasy?

Torilink had a good point about this where we were talking about a jellyfish that apparently lives forever (unless killed by an outside force).

We were saying that now we've got a story about living forever that is scientific. Who knows how long it would take, for some wonder drug to come on the market that adds years to people's lives, that's just one way it could happen, as a direct result of our thoughts of living longer, and in such a way that wouldn't shatter our reality.

It could be introduced gradually, to the point that everyone is living for much much longer and it seems like a natural effect of some scientific cause that came before. And it could take as "long" or as "short" as is necessary for us to accept it's possible, since time is relative.

All wacky personal opinions from me of course.


Here's a great discussion between Steve, impaul, and Max before he ran out of words:
Subjective Reality vs. Solipsism (Blog)

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by Billiardsguy2006

Hi all,

I really believe that the LOA works-I've seen evidence of it in my life. But my question is this-why cannot the LOA prevent my own death? Surely, if I imagine myself living forever I would-wouldn't I?

Though certainly eccentric, you might enjoy Leonard Orr's (of rebirthing fame) Breaking the Death Habit (it's been about 10 years since I read it).

Summed up in a paragraph:

"Death is a grave mistake. The psychology of physical immortality: The difference between one person and another is primarily in he quality of ideas they think about. Thoughts of everlasting life produce health. The belief that death is inevitable is unhealthy to humans. This is just common sense. Psychosomatic science has proven that out beliefs influence our health. So what practical value does believing in death have if you desire health? The belief that death is inevitable has probably killed more people than all other causes combined. Even if you survive old age, illness, and accidents, and practice the techniques of rebirthing and affirmation, your own belief in death will get you in the end - unless you change it. Seriously questioning the idea that death is inevitable is good and practical for both mental and physical health. Immortalists argue that if death really was inevitable and beyond your control, then believing in physical immortality wouldn't hurt you. Put simply, the cause of death is really pollution in the body: physical pollution with food and toxins, and energy pollution through other people and our past accumulations. Both food and people are harmless in and of themselves, but it is possible to overdose. Sometimes overdose is obvious; sometimes it is very subtle. For example, it is possible to eat meat 25-50 years before it kills you through heart attack or cancer. Getting rid of physical and energy body pollution faster than we take it in is what I call the spiritual purification game. The more we win this game on a daily basis, the more often we can live in the Spirit, and the more control we have over our lives. When we lose the spiritual purification game, we move towards aging and death."

Universal Tao: breaking

[Jack-b]

Interesting (cue theatrical cackle)........

I will have time to post about SR vs Solopsism soon but in my mind this is the same view as the Buddhist consciousness basis of all. And that is easily negated but is an extremely beneficial and necessary view but not the ultimate view.

[StacyT]

Why cannot the LOA prevent my own death?
To me, this is simple - and maybe I am over-simplifying here but let me take a stab at it: In order for LOA to actually work, the manifester has to KNOW in the core of their being that what they are manifesting will actually happen.

Changing one's belief system is not easy work. It's not as simple as repeating mantras or telling yourself "my physical body will live forever" when deep down, your personal belief system says that everyone will eventually die.

So again, why cannot the LOA prevent my own death? Maybe it can. but in order for that to happen, you have to:

1. Want it to happen (I can't believe that anyone would truly want to live forever, but assuming there are some that do...)
2. Actually KNOW in your heart of hearts that your physical body will never die. (This, for me, would be the impossible part)

Maybe eternal life on earth is possible.

I am not an expert manifester, but these are just my thoughts.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Jack-b

in my mind this is the same view as the Buddhist consciousness basis of all.

I agree.

Nonduality, Maya and Spiritual Awakening

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by cylon

Here's a great discussion between Steve, impaul, and Max before he ran out of words:
Subjective Reality vs. Solipsism (Blog)

Cool. Although sometimes I thought my head was going to explode

This explanation from Paul finally made it more clear for me. It gives me something to play around with now.

In the single Ego example, there is no 7 BILLION people. This is the way I see it, and I think Max as well. There is only 1 EGO and it is on a single journey. This ego is YOU. This text you're reading, you created it simply to help yourself move up these levels. In fact, this text was never "written" by someone named IMPAUL99, it just appeared in front of you because you wanted to say it to yourself. When I say "yourself" I mean there is your TRUE SELF, and then there is your EGO SELF. This is your TRUE SELF talking to your EGO SELF in a way that EGO SELF will understand and possibly even accept. VOICES IN THE HEAD isn't acceptable to your EGO yet, so I (your TRUE SELF) have to resort to forums for now. SOON that will be different. But for now, I have to talk to you in this fashion.

So, BTW, Steve doesn't exist. IMPAUL99 doesn't exist. Nobody exists, it's all just you (True Self) talking to you (EGO).

[cylon]

It does make your head explode. The first time I read through that I figured paul was right, the second time through, more that Steve is right. I'm not sure..... can there be multiple egos with only one consciousness? Only if consciousness perceives itself as having multiple egos. In that case, all the egos are real, and they are all illusions, including yours (and mine).


Maybe it's only a subtle difference between what Steve and Paul were saying. Maybe the cylon and moonrambler "egos" are just the dream characters of the bigger dreamer.

And when you think about Quantum Entanglement, it gets even weirder. The idea that all matter was condensed at the big bang, so as it went in a zillion directions over zillions of years, it's still all connected, still that one thing.

Gee I sure hope I can function in the real world after all this, and not be tripping and crashing into walls and stuff.

[cylon]

Here's something I just thought of.

Say you are just thinking about something, and you have two different ways of looking at it. You are thinking about taking one action, but another part of you wants to take a totally different action. So there is sort of a see saw between both perspectives in your mind. Finally, you decide on one of those perspectives, and that is the "reality" you choose to experience. A choice is made.

And whichever perspective you choose, is really still your perspective. It was all your perspective, you just felt like you were at odds with yourself. Pulled in different directions. But that was an illusion. It was all you, the whole time.

Hey, I'm skitzo!

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by StacyT

1. Want it to happen (I can't believe that anyone would truly want to live forever, but assuming there are some that do...)

I wouldn't want to live in this particular body forever.

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by cylon

Gee I sure hope I can function in the real world after all this, and not be tripping and crashing into walls and stuff.

That's not half as scary as being "part Waxy" (of course, it works both ways )

[themaster]

Yes, I know this was active 2 1/2 months ago.. still I found something I wanted to say on a re-review

Originally Posted by joelr

I just want one channeler to say something simple like...... e=mc^2, 3.14159265, but not that because we already know that. Some simple profound equation that will be a big part of our future knowledge. Do all the zeros of the zeta function lie at real number 1/2? It's a yes or no question. It's the biggest unsolved problem in mathematics. Why can't they lay down something simple yet profound that will prove beyond any doubt that they are actually an entity beyond physical reality but who once lived many lives on the physical plane. Why can't they access a future (future to our perspective) life and explain a little future science/math from a laymans point of view? That always bugs me.

I think your problem joel is you just haven't searched around enough.. for channels.. I'm not claiming to be a super expert but I think you should just investigate more if you want this info..

Some channels have provided science experiments, some channels are on record for certain *predictions* and I've heard of a channel that spends a lot of time describing DNA stuff we haven't even got figured out yet (don't even know this one’s name.. just passed in reference)

You also completely dismissing the fact of asking your own question..

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

At time passes, more and more I get the sense I've strayed from my "true" path...

I'm not sure if you’re joking when you say this.. but I learned this the other day from my teacher.. my teacher says in essence that we have a theme we have that we choose when we come here.. and our free choice is to follow this theme or to ignore it, that is our choice so in essence you can never really get off your path since you are choosing no or yes to it all the time..

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by themaster

I'm not sure if you’re joking when you say this.. but I learned this the other day from my teacher.. my teacher says in essence that we have a theme we have that we choose when we come here.. and our free choice is to follow this theme or to ignore it, that is our choice so in essence you can never really get off your path since you are choosing no or yes to it all the time..

Very serious; I know it's hard to tell sometimes, but I'm just a natural goof

I've been reading a free e-book, and in it the author uses a deck of cards as a metaphor for our lives. He speaks of the 'life theme' as a joker card, and then goes on to say that if we have indeed been dealt one, and if it's currently in play, our resistance to it can wreak havoc. Certainly I have felt quite directionless in recent years, at best, and at worst as if I'd been stupidly and stubbornly beating my head against walls.