My dog died,is there a way to rescue him?

[Brutha]

Could you elaborate? I am not understanding you.

If you belief that the only thing that exist are thought and you belief that there are things that matter the logical conclusion is that their are thoughts that matter.

Therefore the belief that Phyical Things matter, but Mental Things doesn't matter is inconsistent with the LoA.

Originally Posted by Frans

FYI: It's not a dying dog, it's a death dog, a carcass.

See the evolution of a carcass after 1 day, 1 week, 1 month.
The entropy increases. You don't have to have a medical degree to see this.

While it is right that the entropy in most death dog increases the second law of thermodynamics doesn't force the dog to increase in entropy.

It is perfectly possible to bring energy into the "death dog system"

[Frans]

Originally Posted by Brutha

It is perfectly possible to bring energy into the "death dog system"

Do you agree that there is a slight difference between "energy" and "life"?

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Frans

OK. I'll rephrase that:

What has a beginning has an end, no matter in which reality model you believe.
Do you agree with this statement?

No. You are failing to recognize the very fundamental nature of the term "reality". You're making up rules by which all realities must necessarily follow, contradicting precisely the point subjective reality makes: that one's reality does not necessarily have the same rules as others'.

[Athena]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

one's reality does not necessarily have the same rules as others'.

But aren't there some rules that are a part of everyone's reality for a period of time, whether they choose to believe it or not? For instance, the rule that today for the whole day, your body is going to be subject to gravity. You probably won't be floating off of the earth's surface because you choose to suspend your belief in gravity.

Those who do OBEs and astral projection, etc, may say that they can transcend gravity, so whether you define 'YOU' as your spirit body or your physical body, but no matter what happens on the astral plane, it seems there are still rules that govern your physical body in the physical dimension of reality here on earth.

==

I think that reality has both objective and subjective layers- while you're living on earth, you are bound by certain objective rules of physical life here. But you can also find channels to and layers of subjective reality, that allow you to control certain things about life here on earth, but there are still certain objective laws that can't (perhaps because they aren't meant to be) broken.

I feel sorry for this boy, because he seems so desperate to bring his dog back. IF he could see that although subjective reality is a powerful concept, there are still objective rules of physical life that can't be transcended, then maybe he would more quickly let go of his dead dog, accept the death, and move on.

==

It sounds like most people here are either subjective OR objective in their views of reality; is there anyone who can bring together the two in a coherent, perhaps more powerful, model?

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Athena

But aren't there some rules that are a part of everyone's reality for a period of time, whether they choose to believe it or not? For instance, the rule that today for the whole day, your body is going to be subject to gravity. You probably won't be floating off of the earth's surface because you choose to suspend your belief in gravity.

Again, questionable, because you're assuming that the law of gravity supersedes the laws of one's subjective reality. This is not a given. The entire point of the subjective reality model is that all laws are manifestations of your mind. I'm not suggesting that it's correct: I'm saying that the arguments aren't acknowledging this.

Originally Posted by Athena

It sounds like most people here are either subjective OR objective in their views of reality; is there anyone who can bring together the two in a coherent, perhaps more powerful, model?

I don't believe in a subjective reality; I'm merely pointing out the logical error Frans is making. I did write a post on Subjectivity versus Objectivity over here:
Achieving Love Within Objective Reality

Naturally, being as pompous as I am, I consider my model to be thoroughly superior to everyone else's.

[dorothy hanna]

Your dog is fine. He's left his physical body, and is now happily romping around the universe, with his spiritual body. He will probably return to visit you on occasion, as some of my loved ones do, both human and non-human.
No need for a rescue. He's not in distress, or in pain, or in any danger. He's free, and loving it.

I had a goat die. I called her Pixie. She was the tiniest little thing, when born, as she was very pre-mature. She nearly left us 3 times during that period, and the vets didn't hold out any hope for her making it, but I nursed her along. She didn't even get up, or sit up for the first 2-1/2 months of her life, and then after that, she could sit up and eat, and hold herself erect, but still couldn't stand, as her little hooves were so soft. But little by little she got stronger.
She lived for a long time, and was very happy, and had lots of kids, but then one day she left us.
One day we were out with the herd, and another bottle goat, Gypsy, came running up the road towards us, and she kept calling, and calling, but her voice sounded so different. I kept thinking, "Whats wrong with Gypsy", "What's wrong with her voice"? She came up to me and began rubbing on me, the way Pixie used to. And then it hit me, Gypsy wasn't sounding like Gypsy, because she sounded like Pixie, and she was acting like Pixie. She kept it up, until I said, "Oh Pixie, I'm so happy to see you, again". I'm so glad you came to give me the chance to say I love you, and that you came to tell me, that you love me too". I sat down, and she lay next to me, and I just petted her, and, as ussual, she fell alssp at my feet. When Gypsy woke up, Pixie was no longer in her, and had left to do, and go where ever she wanted, but she had entered Gypsies body for awhile, to share with me again, some of the times we had together.
So, Although it's an adjustment we end up having to make, when a loved one leaves their physical body, they are not dead. The relationship has changed, and we adjust to this change, and we accept the newness of this growing of our relationships. This is something, that is more than a belief I have, because of hearing stories about such things, and so then I believed. This is something that I know, because these are the experiences I have had, and things I have witnessed for myself. I am a believer, not because I was told, but because I wittnessed it, and then I knew, and so this is why I believe.

[Frans]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

No. You are failing to recognize the very fundamental nature of the term "reality". You're making up rules by which all realities must necessarily follow, contradicting precisely the point subjective reality makes: that one's reality does not necessarily have the same rules as others'.

Something is endless or it isn't.
What has a beginning is not endless.
If it is "not endless", it has an end.

If this is not true in your reality, it means only that there is no place for logic in your reality (maybe you're talking about the reality of your dreams?).

[Shaden]

Dorothy Hannah - that was a touching story. I'm still waiting for my late dog Billy to pay me a visit Maybe I should go to a dog pen lol!

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Frans

What has a beginning is not endless.

1. Prove that this is true.
2. Prove that anything has a beginning.

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by dorothy hanna

Your dog is fine. He's left his physical body, and is now happily romping around the universe, with his spiritual body. He will probably return to visit you on occasion, as some of my loved ones do, both human and non-human.
No need for a rescue. He's not in distress, or in pain, or in any danger. He's free, and loving it.

I had a goat die. I called her Pixie. She was the tiniest little thing, when born, as she was very pre-mature. She nearly left us 3 times during that period, and the vets didn't hold out any hope for her making it, but I nursed her along. She didn't even get up, or sit up for the first 2-1/2 months of her life, and then after that, she could sit up and eat, and hold herself erect, but still couldn't stand, as her little hooves were so soft. But little by little she got stronger.
She lived for a long time, and was very happy, and had lots of kids, but then one day she left us.
One day we were out with the herd, and another bottle goat, Gypsy, came running up the road towards us, and she kept calling, and calling, but her voice sounded so different. I kept thinking, "Whats wrong with Gypsy", "What's wrong with her voice"? She came up to me and began rubbing on me, the way Pixie used to. And then it hit me, Gypsy wasn't sounding like Gypsy, because she sounded like Pixie, and she was acting like Pixie. She kept it up, until I said, "Oh Pixie, I'm so happy to see you, again". I'm so glad you came to give me the chance to say I love you, and that you came to tell me, that you love me too". I sat down, and she lay next to me, and I just petted her, and, as ussual, she fell alssp at my feet. When Gypsy woke up, Pixie was no longer in her, and had left to do, and go where ever she wanted, but she had entered Gypsies body for awhile, to share with me again, some of the times we had together.
So, Although it's an adjustment we end up having to make, when a loved one leaves their physical body, they are not dead. The relationship has changed, and we adjust to this change, and we accept the newness of this growing of our relationships. This is something, that is more than a belief I have, because of hearing stories about such things, and so then I believed. This is something that I know, because these are the experiences I have had, and things I have witnessed for myself. I am a believer, not because I was told, but because I wittnessed it, and then I knew, and so this is why I believe.

Whether others share your beliefs or not, that was a beautiful post, Dorothy -- bravo.

I believe if we are all able to look beyond face value, we could learn a lot from, and by following Dorothy's example. Pay attention to the subtleties -- there is a certain elegance in them that is easy to miss.

[ReallyGoodIdeas]

There's no question these things occur. A friend of mine died suddenly in a car accident, about 10 years ago. He left behind his wife and 2 young children. I saw him on occasion for the following year, shepharding his family. When I mentioned this to his widow she agreed he'd been around a lot. FInally about a year later when she was ready for him to go (she got a boyfriend), she asked him to go, and he went easily.

When my Grandma died, it was the same, she followed me for a few years until I didn't need her anymore. then she went.

Your dog is fine, as dorothy says. He's not in pain, and he's free. Understand that, and while you'll miss him, you'll realise that its OK for him, you don't need to suffer over his death. He is now well, and still loves you.

Love to you
Hazel

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Frans

What has a beginning has an end, no matter in which reality model you believe.
Do you agree with this statement?

It depends on your perspective.

To have a beginning and an end, we must rely on the idea of past, present & future.

Spiritual teacher Eckhart Tolle, however, would say that the past and the future are illusions of the ego. Truly, there is only now.

From a different angle (a mathematical one), Albert Einstein reached a similar conclusion:

"... the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

Nobel Prize-winning physicist Stephen Hawking described it in this way:

"The universe would be completely self contained and not affected by anything outside itself. It would neither be created nor destroyed. It would just BE."

Above taken from this science website. Its author writes:

", the universe exists without beginning or end in imaginary time, and we might also say that each moment we experience exists forever."

So once again, Frans is proven wrong.

[Frans]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

1. Prove that this is true.
2. Prove that anything has a beginning.

1. There is nothing to prove if you know the meaning of "endless":

Definition of "endless" (The Free Dictionary): "Being or seeming to be without an end or limit; boundless".

If something has a beginning it means that it is not boundless, that it is not without limits (the beginning IS a limit), hence it is not endless.

2. Is irrelevant because I never said that everything has a beginning.

What's next?...

[Frans]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

To have a beginning and an end, we must rely on the idea of past, present & future.

Acting Like Godot, your ENTIRE reply is based on a false assumption:

I never said that everything has a beginning and an end.
I only said: "what has a beginning has an end".

Once we agree that something has a beginning, it implies that it has an end (read my previous posts).

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Frans

Definition of "endless" (The Free Dictionary): "Being or seeming to be without an end or limit; boundless".

If something has a beginning it means that it is not boundless, that it is not without limits (the beginning IS a limit), hence it is not endless.

Then, if something has a beginning, it is not endless, but you have not shown that the "end" is in the future, only in the past. Nice semantic quibble, though, if I might congratulate the stunt. Something may possibly have only one end: its beginning. What do you say to this?

Originally Posted by Frans

Is irrelevant because I never said that everything has a beginning.

No, but you presume that something has a beginning. Thus, prove that any thing has a beginning.

[Brutha]

Do you agree that there is a slight difference between "energy" and "life"?

But the second law of thermodynamic doesn't say anything about life.
It say only things about heat which is one form of energy.

And it deal only with isolated systems, but the dog is no isolated system.

I only said: "what has a beginning has an end".

If you count the beginning point as an end then, sure everything that begins has such a beginning point and has therefore also an end (the end is the beginning).
But it doesn't need to have two ends.
A mathematical sequence like
A(n)=n has a beginning 1. You can also that this beginning is a minimum (a limit) of the sequence and call it the end of the sequence.
But the sequence has no maximum, no upper limit.

Are you seem to imply that their is such a upper limit.

No, but you presume that something has a beginning. Thus, prove that any thing has a beginning.

No he doesn't. I can say that unicorns have one horn without claiming that their are unicorns and the sentence is neverless true.

Nobel Prize-winning physicist Stephen Hawking described it in this way:

The guy has no nobel prize.

"The universe would be completely self contained and not affected by anything outside itself. It would neither be created nor destroyed. It would just BE."

Notice the conjunctive, the guy makes theoretical physics. He say how things could be, not how things are.

[Acting Like Godot]

Thanks for the correction, you are right. I googled and found this about Stephen Hawking:

Stephen Hawking

. Hawking has been awarded 12 honorary doctorates including ones from Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Oxford, and Notre Dame. He has also received other awards such as being elected to the U.S. National Academy of Sciences as well as to the famed Royal Society (which he considers to be his proudest achievement). In addition, the British Royalty made him a Commander of the British Empire. In 1989, Hawking became a Companion of Honour by Queen Elizabeth. Ironically, Hawking has not been the recipient of a Nobel Prize since the prize requires a major achievement to be proven, and Hawking's ideas are so advanced that they have not been proven yet.

Haha, that is ironic indeed.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Frans

Once we agree that something has a beginning, it implies that it has an end (read my previous posts).

Then you must ask yourself whether anything has a beginning.

Here's an interesting word I learned from the Dalai Lama: beginningless.

[belugagirl]

Jack, there's a reason we call dogs man's best friend. There's no such thing as JUST a dog. You've just lost your best friend, and feeling like you just want to go to sleep and never wake up again--in other words not wanting to feel this pain any more--is natural. It's grief. But it is not permanent. Promise. So don't think about pills or anthing else to do to yourself.

Erin is right: your dog will live on in your memories and in your love for other human and animal beings. Some day it will be easier to feel the joy of those memories without the ache of loss.

One thing that might help you grieve and move on is some sort of memorial. Are there other people who loved your dog? Invite them over for a meal or a few drinks (non-alcoholic of course, if you're too young) and swap stories about your dog. When my dog died, I held a "funeral." My friends came over to share a pizza and watch Old Yeller. We had a good cry, and then we laughed over stories about his hilarious and adorable traits and habits. I felt better after. Still missed him. (Still do sometimes.) But it took the sharpness out of the sting.

In time, I hope another dog is lucky enough to call you its person.

[Frans]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

Then, if something has a beginning, it is not endless, but you have not shown that the "end" is in the future, only in the past.

IF something has a beginning and an end, the end is always AFTER the beginning, otherwise one should give other definitions to the words "beginning" and "end".
If in your reality the end of something appears BEFORE the beginning, then your reality is a reversed reality, meaning you're heading to your birth.

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

Something may possibly have only one end: its beginning. What do you say to this?

I'll answer that question if you can give one example of a thing that has a beginning, but not an end.

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

No, but you presume that something has a beginning. Thus, prove that any thing has a beginning.

That must be a misunderstanding. I don't presume that any thing has a beginning.
The meaning of "what has a beginning has an end" is:
"if something has a beginning, it must have an end".

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Frans

I'll answer that question if you can give one example of a thing that has a beginning, but not an end.

Mmmm ...... how about all the energy in the universe, released during the Big Bang?

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Frans

I'll answer that question if you can give one example of a thing that has a beginning, but not an end.

In my reality, or yours?

[Shaden]

Frans, Micheal Chui, Acting Like Godot and all the various others - go away. This forum is a place of discussion, but this thread is a place of offering advice to someone who just lost a close friend in their life. Move this discussion elsewhere and use this thread for its real purpose.

I don't have authority but if you have decency you'll agree with me.

[dECLAN]

Originally Posted by Frans

Who will be the first die-hard I-M believer who admits that there are boundaries that never can be trespassed without violating laws of nature (in this case the second law of thermodynamics: "The entropy of an isolated system can only increase or remain the same. It cannot decrease.")?

All this occurs at the so called material level.

There are many levels of reality. Science has so far only succeed in explaining the material and in very limited terms.

[Andrew Brunelle]

I intended for your dog to die. I just intended that animals and humans die. It's their nature. No one can live forever, man or beast. It's life. You live, you die, you breathe, you don't. Just remember the good times, have those live in your heart. Your dog isn't really gone, just out of this plane of reality. Maybe you'll meet back up with it in the ether. Here's hoping...