The myth of I-M

[KeithHandy]

Originally Posted by impaul99

Affect is a verb, like "Not believing in LoA can affect your results."

Effect is noun? Let me think. THe context would be "The LoA had a positive effect on my life."

Actually "effect" can also be a verb, but it is less commonly used, and even less commonly used correctly, because it means "to bring about" or "to bring into existence".

Sticking with impaul99's rule of thumb is good if you're not sure. If you want to use "effect" as a verb, it's an important distinction: "your thoughts affect your reality" would not be as controversial of a statement as "your thoughts effect your reality".

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by magickmystik

i rephrase, "DON"T BLAME THE LAW, it's ALWAYS WORKING, GUARANTEED"
if one doesn't attract what they want, it shows that it is working too. Because people don't attract what they want, they attract what they 'vibrate-ing', lol

how's that?

A clever theory! It can never fail!

[Acting Like Godot]

Why would anyone want to believe in theories shown to have failed?

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Why would anyone want to believe in theories shown to have failed?

That was not my point. My point was that the theory is constructed, or formulated, in a way that it never can be proven wrong or fail. Since even an obvious failure of the theory will in fact confirm its 'validity' ...

The theory 'worked' > that's because you believed it would work > the theory is valid
The theory 'failed' > that's because you believed it would fail > the theory is valid

But there's still no proof that the results had anything to do 'with the Universe arranging things for you according to your expectation'.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Markus74

The theory 'worked' > that's because you believed it would work > the theory is valid
The theory 'failed' > that's because you believed it would fail > the theory is valid

But there's still no proof that the results had anything to do 'with the Universe arranging things for you according to your expectation'.

1) You tell the universe "LoA can't work, I see no proof, the whole world would be screwed up if it did."
2) The universe says "As you wish." and shows you no proof because you don't want to see it.
3) You go through these forums saying "There's no proof! There's no proof!"

Do you not see that none of us can ever show you any proof because your intention is to NOT see it? You've created a paradox. In order for us to show you proof, it would break your LoA intention and therefore prove that LoA doesn't work because it didn't' listen to your intention.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. I've grown to accept the fact that you believe LoA just as much as I do except that you believe it's a positive thinking system that helps people achieve stuff because it motivates them to take action and to recognize opportunities and due to those things they ultimately achieve the very things they wanted to manifest by taking massive action towards a clearly defined goal. I believe it's more then that, but really it doesn't matter. It's clear to say that if either of us were to offer advice to a person we would basically tell them the same thing, except when that person encountered moments where things came to them even faster than expected you'd say "Well look at that, luck is on your side! Great!" and I would say "The universe created this for you."... ultimately, it's the same thing though. Define what you want...visualize it... go after it.

I do think that the discussions on these forums about "proof that LoA does magic" between believers and skeptics are kind of fruitless, no?

[moviestar]

I do think that the discussions on these forums about "proof that LoA does magic" between believers and skeptics are kind of fruitless, no?

The real question is: how can we construct a system of thinking that will be pleasing for both of us. I would like a system that makes you achieve your goals by focusing on them but without naming it a "Law" and without any of the "universe", "attraction" bullshit.

[Markus74]

Paul:

The magical aspects of the LoA don't work. And that's not just because I doubt. If the magical aspects worked then you would be able to show me an example of that magic happening. But neither you nor anyone else in here can do this.

So this is either:

- because the LoA is about an attitude of the mind and not about magic
- or my intentions dominate your intentions (why would they though?)

If you cannot come up with an example of your life that could serve as proof then what kind of examples do you have in the first place???

Another thing: The LoA claims that people attract illnesses and that they can inverse this and attract healing just by asking for it. If that's true then can people also change their eye size, their boob size, the height etc just by asking for it? Can blind people ask for sight? Can amputees ask for their missing limb to regrow?

Or can the Universe not help in the cases?

Any why would all these people have asked for those disabilities in the first place?

The LoA contains some obvious truths, and without the bogus claims and false promises it would be really a neat mental attitude. But it discredits itself by claiming to have an explanation for, and access to, Everything. That claim doesn't hold up upon scrutiny and makes the whole theory look foolish.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Markus74

Paul:

The magical aspects of the LoA don't work. And that's not just because I doubt. If the magical aspects worked then you would be able to show me an example of that magic happening. But neither you nor anyone else in here can do this.

Wrong. They do work. But I do agree that none of us are able to show you an example of that magic happening, precisely because you don't believe.

If you cannot come up with an example of your life that could serve as proof then what kind of examples do you have in the first place???

I have tonnes of examples from my life, that is why I believe, because I have seen proof. However, I also realize that none of my examples will serve as proof for you because you didn't experience them.

[moviestar]

I was reading PJE's blog Live your dreams, or die trying (dirtSimple.org) about his new self-help program. What he wrote is "a self-help program should not depend on the existence of psychic powers or the supernatural!". That's a quote from a man that has been into self-help for more than 20 years and tried a lot of stuff.

This is the reason why I don't like LoA and I-M and why I respond to this thread. You are doing yourself harm if you depend on a law that's been created in someones head and cannot give you concrete proof on how it works and why it sometimes doesn't. Sure it might work, but when it fails you'll fail miserably.

Because once it fails you'll blame yourself for making the intention wrong or not having a proper skill to attract, hence you'll try harder to make the intention. That will bring your focus on something completely irrelevant. Because you believe in the supernatural you won't see the real problem. You won't see where you have failed as a HUMAN BEING. You will be stuck in a false belief system that doesn't allow you to grow, because it depends on something that is beyond you. Realize that you are just human and you make mistakes. There are things that are physical and real, that help you. Things that are natural and are proven to have helped human beings from the beginning of time. You can also see why it doesn't work and what to do about it.
You must eat to survive. Food is something real and you KNOW it helps you. And there are real things in this world, that are concrete and proven to help you. If you dream about a better life, if you want to achieve your goals and live them, base your ideas on REAL ideas. Don't ask me to define "real", you know what I mean.

I believed once in LoA, for a couple of months actually. And it worked, but sometimes it didn't. I started analyzing it, after a time of blindly believing it and I started to notice patterns. I gained more knowledge and now I understand why it works and why it doesn't. There are concrete ways in which you can help yourself. Intention-Manifestation just takes a little piece of what actually helps you achieve. If you don't see that, then you won't take advantage of the full arsenal of real solutions for yourself to make you get what you really want in life.

[JHL]

Now let's take the 'law' of attraction. Sometimes it seems to work, often it doesn't. That's not a law! That's a concept. What kind of physical law only works when you believe in it??

Thats a good and sober point to make - either it works, or it doesnt. I've seen a lot of attempts on these boards that clumsily try to elaborate on why it sometimes works, and other times appears not to.

To my mind, its very simple: you dont attract what you want, you attract what you are. No shortcuts, no cheating, no million dollars for doing nothing. If money didnt come to you today, redoubling your IM meditation efforts will not produce it tomorrow. You have to change - inside. By changing inside you are likely to effect changes in your world outside, through your new behaviour, demeanor, actions, etc. This will produce new results, opportunities and synchronicities in one's life.

Furthermore, one does not need to read ancient texts, listen to channeled "masters" or todays new age gurus to understand this. Its all common sense, isnt it?

[Frans]

Originally Posted by JHL

If money didnt come to you today, redoubling your IM meditation efforts will not produce it tomorrow. You have to change - inside. By changing inside you are likely to effect changes in your world outside, through your new behaviour, demeanor, actions, etc. This will produce new results, opportunities and synchronicities in one's life.

Now that is the core of personal development.
Well said, JHL.

Your last paragraph deserves more emphasis, so I repeat it here in bold:

Originally Posted by JHL

Furthermore, one does not need to read ancient texts, listen to channeled "masters" or todays new age gurus to understand this. Its all common sense, isnt it?

Common sense is in my opinion the most important factor that will help you to decide whether something is valuable for you or not.
The power, the knowledge, the wisdom, it's all within you. You don't need to search it elsewhere.

[John Wesley]

Frans is spot on with his sentiments about I-M in my opinion. Although positive thoughts and intentions are important there are countless other factors that lead to either failure or success.

He is correct in asserting that most strong supporters of I-M have something to gain from people believing in it via book sales, website traffic, etc. I'm actually very happy he started this thread because absolute adherence to the I-M theory or L of A is the aspect of personal development I find most exploitive and irrational. Instead of blindly preaching these formulas for success, I think personal development should focus on the mental and spiritual development of the individual -- something that can't be measured by results, but really the only thing we have control over.

[Cron]

I am a big believer in making the visualization of goals into a regular practice.

I believe it works.

I think it generates motivation, makes people alert to elements of achieving their goals in their daily lives and I believe it changes their thinking which allows them to behave in more constructive ways.

I don't believe there is a magical element to it.

I mean absolutely no offense to the I-M believers. When I was a teenager I got into the Seth Books ( "Seth Speaks" ) by Jane Roberts which is pretty much the same thing, just with different names for the concepts.

The only slightly negative thing I would have to add is to warn people against being exploited. Limit yourself to buying one really good book or one really good CD/DVD on the subject.