Scientific sources that shows LoA is real?

[Sindre]

I'm dealing with some sceptics, and they're asking if there's some kind of scientific evidence that the Law of Attraction actually exists? I've been wondering about this myself, and would really like to see, if not evidence, at least very strong indications (on a scientific level) that it is real..

Thanks in advance.

[sidsavara]

I don't think you'll be able to find more than anecdotal evidence. However, the psych files (a podcast) has reported that there are studies showing that when we set ourselves to a purpose, we are more likely to see that to completion.

This may not be exactly what you were looking for, but hope it helps.

[Wax Frog]

Welcome to the board, kindred spirit! When I first arrived I drove everyone crazy with my desperate pleas for a way to convince myself of LoA/IM's reality, worried that it either doesn't exist or else my doubts are barring me from experiencing it.

I found a book called "The Intention Experiment" of interest, but I'm not broadly-read on the subject and so hold out hope that there is, or eventually will be, more ironclad material out there, brought to my attention by posts here.

[jeff3]

If you consider it deeply you will see that "proving" the law of attraction to someone who is attracting "it does not work" is a practice of futility. It is an interesting conundrum, and also explains why believers of the various religious groups cannot provide enough proof to convert someone who does not wish to be converted. It takes a bit of open mindedness to access new ideas and those with very rigid world-views are not likely candidates.

[jawillie]

Ask them to look openly and honestly at their own lives. If they do, they will see the proof right there.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Sindre

I've been wondering about this myself, and would really like to see, if not evidence, at least very strong indications (on a scientific level) that it is real..

Thanks in advance.

Since you've been wondering about it, the evidence is that your friends asked you what the evidence for it was.

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Sindre

I'm dealing with some sceptics, and they're asking if there's some kind of scientific evidence that the Law of Attraction actually exists? I've been wondering about this myself, and would really like to see, if not evidence, at least very strong indications (on a scientific level) that it is real..

Thanks in advance.

BE the evidence Find some way to test the LoA and see if it works. Even better: create an amazing life by using the LoA. Soon your friends will be BEGGING you to reveal the secret of your success. But this one could take a fair bit of time.

Acting Like Godot knows alot about this stuff (experiemnts and such involving the LoA, more or less). Search for his posts or PM him - though he will maybe reply to this thread eventually.

Originally Posted by cylon

Since you've been wondering about it, the evidence is that your friends asked you what the evidence for it was.

lol, brilliant.

[Sindre]

Originally Posted by cylon

Since you've been wondering about it, the evidence is that your friends asked you what the evidence for it was.

Yeah, that is briliant. Thanks for all your replies. It's just so hard explaining this to non-believers, but I'll try.

[fellowtraveler]

Originally Posted by Sindre

I'm dealing with some sceptics, and they're asking if there's some kind of scientific evidence that the Law of Attraction actually exists? I've been wondering about this myself, and would really like to see, if not evidence, at least very strong indications (on a scientific level) that it is real..

Thanks in advance.

My first reaction is "why bother", but as Wax frog has said, you should read The Intention Experiment, which is chock-full (boringly so) of experimental anecdotes with references. I would recommend reading The Field first as an introduction.

But your friends will believe what they will believe - don't overtax yourself trying to prove anything. Just give them the info and get out of the way, or you'll wind up on a par with those Jehovah's Witnesses who keep showing up at your front door until you answer it in the nude (a story for another time, LOL...).

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by Elrond

Even better: create an amazing life by using the LoA. Soon your friends will be BEGGING you to reveal the secret of your success. But this one could take a fair bit of time.

Especially if you're in a life situation you're experiencing* as inescapably lame and inertia-ridden?

*though perhaps inaccurately

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

Especially if you're in a life situation you're experiencing* as inescapably lame and inertia-ridden?

*though perhaps inaccurately

Yeah I guess. If you have a great life to begin with, than it is much easier to be able to focus on the bright side of life, than if you're life doesn't seem to have many bright sides.

It's funny that you say "*though perhaps inaccurately". How you experience/percieve your life is excactly what matters. A lot of techniques to using the LoA, affirmations, positive thinking hypnosis, are about being able to imagine and percieve your life to be better than it actually "is". So, for your sake, I would absolutely advice you to assume that you are wrong in your assesment.

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by Elrond

So, for your sake, I would absolutely advice you to assume that you are wrong in your assesment.

Doin' my best, Mr. Peredhil, doin' my best Part of being a 'drama king' is wanting to spin my own story into being something worse than perhaps it objectively is. I'm taking my first stab at dealing with that bad story-telling habit.

[Lauxa]

I don't see how it could even be possible to prove LoA scientifically.

We can't measure yet the two key components: thoughts and emotions. You'd have to wire people up with machinery to measure what percentage of time they spend on each thought and how much emotional energy they invest in the thought and then somehow correlate that to the external events that happen in their lives. How would you do that?

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

I don't see how it could even be possible to prove LoA scientifically

That would be fine with me, actually - one nice little unambiguous kicker of a 'manifestation' in my life and I'd go away satisfied

[basil]

In the movie What the Bleep do we Know they mention two experiments:
1- An experiment made by a Japanese person, Masaru Emoto, who put some labels on bottles of distilled water saying "Chi of Love" or "Thank You", kept them for a day and then took some pictures using a dark field microscope and compared them to the original distilled water. The shapes (of molecular structure I guess) has dramatically changed.
2- An experiment made by a group of scientists in 1993 in which 4000 people from all over the world meditated for a long time everyday in order to reduce the crime rate in Washington by 25%. Not only did it work, they said that the percentage has already been predicted depending on previous studies.

I don't know how credible this is, but I thought this might help.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

I don't see how it could even be possible to prove LoA scientifically.

We can't measure yet the two key components: thoughts and emotions.

It's much simpler than you think, actually.

For example, take a group of patients suffering from similar medical conditions. Give them the same kind of medical treatment. In addition, half the patients are asked to spend 20 minutes thinking positive healing thoughts, say, twice a week. Measure & compare the rate of recovery. Example:

Harvard Gazette: Hypnosis helps healing

You can play with various permutations of the above. For example, take a group of patients suffering from similar medical conditions. Give them the same kind of medical treatment. In addition, get some other people to pray for the spedy recovery of half the patients. Measure and compare the rate of recovery. Example:

http://www.science-spirit.org/articl...article_id=295

Another kind of experimental structure is to see whether thoughts can generate a specific change in physical matter (other than the human body). Dean Radin has an experiment on how thoughts affect the molecular structure of water crystals.

Another example of how LOA might be studied is through research on extraordinary individuals like psychic Nina Kulagina. In fact, Russian scientists studied her for more than a decade.

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There have been a wide variety of other experiments done. For example, Stanford scientist William Tiller has got experiments where meditators meditate and send positive thoughts to some fruit fly eggs. Later it is discovered that these eggs hatch faster, and the fruit flies are hardier and have a significantly longer lifespan than other fruit flies from eggs that had not been meditated on.

There's also an experiment where people are asked to visualise and imagine doing gym workouts; without actually doing any gym workouts. It is discovered that they subsequently develop increased muscular strength.

Etc etc.

Not commenting further on the details of the studies. Just wanted to illustrate how it is possible to conduct experiments related to thought.

[Liara Covert]

Acting Like Godot's last comment makes a certain point. If sceptics truly desired to convert themselves into believers, then they could readily find and access information that demonstrate what they resist accepting. When non-believers do not choose to believe, the non-believer is invited to think differently about reasons behind resistence. If and when that person is ready, he or she will open up to new kinds of awareness. You can lead a donkey to water, but you cannot make him drink. Whether or not you realize it, it is not your job to convert anyone. Your own path requires your attention. Many events, people and forks in the road offer distractions.

[gr8tocre8]

Sindre,
The question you want to ask yourself is "why is it so important for me to prove to others that the LOA is real"? As you know, your outer world is but a reflection of your inner world, so who are you really trying to prove it to?

I heard a speech by a very wise spiritual speaker once, and he made this statement: "The only person you're ever trying to convince is yourself".

Ask yourself if you're 100% sure that the LOA is real, and that it works. My guess is that you have doubts.

This is great though, because here is your chance to really get disciplined and focused - put it to the test and prove it to yourself - over and over.

Once you have done this, and know beyond the shadow of a doubt that it's real, it will no longer be important for you to try to prove it to anyone else.

[gr8tocre8]

Originally Posted by gr8tocre8

Sindre,
The question you want to ask yourself is "why is it so important for me to prove to others that the LOA is real"? As you know, your outer world is but a reflection of your inner world, so who are you really trying to prove it to?

I heard a speech by a very wise spiritual speaker once, and he made this statement: "The only person you're ever trying to convince is yourself".

Ask yourself if you're 100% sure that the LOA is real, and that it works. My guess is that you have doubts.

This is great though, because here is your chance to really get disciplined and focused - put it to the test and prove it to yourself - over and over.

Once you have done this, and know beyond the shadow of a doubt that it's real, it will no longer be important for you to try to prove it to anyone else.

Sorry, I didn't see the part where you explain that you indeed are unsure about the validity of the LOA until now. So scratch that part, haha. But still, like other posters have pointed out - the only way of proving that it's real is by getting focused and disciplined and prove it to yourself. I recommend picking up a book or similar tool to make sure you have all the resources needed to create powerfully and rapidly.

[Buttercat Apocalypse]

Try manifesting some proof

[Sindre]

Thanks for all the replies.

Personally I don't doubt the LoA so much, I can count many things that have changed for the better after I heard about LoA and started "using" it consciously.

But, as they say in The Secret, "We all work with one power, one law, etc, etc... Attraction". And this is what I was wondering about. How the bleep () do they know that for sure? Is it possible that it's just their own way of thinking? We all know that gravity can be proved, so if the LoA is as real as gravity, why can't we prove LoA? Or can we? I'm not talking about proving it for ourselves, but overwhelming scientific proof.

It's not so much that I'm doubting it, but I would like to see some evidence, and there should be some evidence, when they actually promote it as a "law". Don't you agree?

I think many people have a difficult time believing it because of the lack of pure, solid evidence. People are used to see evidence of almost everything, and if they don't see evidence that LoA is real, they'll conclude it's just some kind of new age-BS, with no more real substance than any religion.

[fellowtraveler]

Originally Posted by Sindre

I think many people have a difficult time believing it because of the lack of pure, solid evidence. People are used to see evidence of almost everything, and if they don't see evidence that LoA is real, they'll conclude it's just some kind of new age-BS, with no more real substance than any religion.

Maybe it's the difference between a common cummunal experiance, and a purely personal one.

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Elrond

...there [are] many ways that people approach and interpret the LoA. There are many ways that people use the LoA and many even mix it with other disciplines. Of course the ways that some people will be more practical than others, and some appraoches will just flat out not work. Add onto that the chance of failure, that your thoughts are contradicting, that you haven't invested enough thought and on and on and on. Even if they have failed in the procedure, they might not even know it.

In other words, you have nothing to build a consistent scientific experiment on.

How empirically can the mind be studied? You may be able to hook someone up to a computer and read their brainwaves, get an overall data on his mood and if his thoughts are causing him stress and such. But how far can you take it? To be able to establish LoA as a law, one would have to empirically study the mind of another person and compare it to how his reality is. Then one could derive theories from this and propose mathematical equations to show the relationship between the mind and reality.

Is there some devise that can read people's mind and see the images they see, the sounds they hear (all in their minds), etc? If not, then it can not be proven empirically as far as I can see it. Nor can you use peoples lack of success in this field as an argument for LoA's falseness, because you cannot compare the mindset that those who succeded had with the mindset that those who failed.

Yes, I'm so self-indulgent that I have stooped to quoting myself.

[wellbeing]

Originally Posted by Sindre

Thanks for all the replies.

We all know that gravity can be proved...,

That's a great example. Gravity wasn't actually "proven" until Sir Isaac Newton in the late 17th century. However, gravity existed and people used its force long before that. Newton simply observed the force's effects and, through interacting with gravity, formulated his Laws of Gravity. The previous responders to your post are suggesting you walk the same path, interact with attraction and observe its effects in your world.

Oh, and Newton's laws were not the end of the discussion by any means. His laws sparked much debate and further experimentation before becoming accepted.

Originally Posted by Sindre

...they actually promote it as a "law".

I know I've quoted you a bit out of context here but it's my interpretation that the word "law" is used to point out that it's a constant. It's not a matter of belief; it could just as easily be described as the Phenomenon of Attraction. Gravity, electricity, attraction, they're all forces that work whether you believe in them or not. If you don't believe in electricity and you pick up a live, high voltage wire, it will still electrocute you.

Originally Posted by Sindre

People are used to see evidence of almost everything, and if they don't see evidence that LoA is real, they'll conclude it's just some....

You know, "seeing," as wondrous as it is, is a limited sense. There's a whole range of the electromagnetic spectrum that the human eye cannot perceive. However, those wavelengths still exist and still impact people (e.g., UV and infrared radiation, to name a few).

Rather than acting from the "I'll believe it when I see" attitude, I prefer the "I'll see it when I believe it" approach. But "People" are free to conclude for themselves.

Thanks for bringing this up. Questions like these always help to clarify things in my own mind.

I hope your experiments are as successful as Sir Isacc's!

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by wellbeing

If you don't believe in electricity and you pick up a live, high voltage wire, it will still electrocute you.

I would like a personal experience of LoA/IM that is as readily available as a finger stuck in a wall socket, but with a pleasant outcome

[mej023]

Think about it. Since you have wondered about the proof have you noticed that everyday you see more and more proof?

The proof is everywhere and always has been. You are now noticing it more and more everyday.

My response to your question is scientific proof.

[PlanetaryNapkin]

[I'm skipping over the meat of the discussion, so I apologize if I ignore anything.]

Rigorous scientific proof about the Law of Attraction seems very, very, unlikely. Science is only able to satisfactorily prove the most basic mechanical ideas about the universe.

There's a sort of sliding scale of proof as far as knowledge is concerned:

Tautologies, like mathematics, are always, always, always capable of being proven conclusively true, because they operate separately from reality. Mathematics is based on the idea of equality -- something equals itself and only itself. Everything in mathematics stems from this, and as long as this rule of equality is obeyed to the fullest, all mathematical ideas are fully sound and fully provable.

Hard sciences, like physics and chemistry, are heavily, heavily, heavily assumed to be true, although proof in physical science can only go as far as being 99.99...% true. We operate as though hard scientific laws are true, and as far as we know it is almost completely certain they are. But since they involve physical reality, consciousness, and perception, the idea of 100% certainty is a distant dream.

Medium-hard sciences, like biology and medicine, and soft sciences, like sociology and anthropology, are mostly true, but by this point there is large room for researcher bias, sample bias, and a whole score of other biases. Knowledge in these fields should be taken with a shaker of salt.

Philosophy, theology, metaphysics, and the like are so subjective that they are basically unprovable under any imaginable circumstances, ever.

In its current incarnation, the Law of Attraction seems mostly like a philosophical idea. It seems far beyond the scope of rigorous proof.

:Cheers,:
-PlanetaryNapkin

[PlanetaryNapkin]

Originally Posted by mej023

Think about it. Since you have wondered about the proof have you noticed that everyday you see more and more proof?

The proof is everywhere and always has been. You are now noticing it more and more everyday.

My response to your question is scientific proof.

Your response actually qualifies as an isolated anecdotal statement, and is neither scientific, nor proof.

I'd encourage you to look up the definition of either of those words.

:Cheers,:
-PlanetaryNapkin.

[PlanetaryNapkin]

Originally Posted by basil

In the movie What the Bleep do we Know they mention two experiments:

...

I don't know how credible this is, but I thought this might help.

Not very credible, I'd say.

I saw that movie, and it seemed to me like a lot of very-wishful thinking by a cherry-picked group of less-than-rigorous, albeit very clever, scientists. Consider reading the following:

Skeptico: What the (Bleep) Were They Thinking?

[The above entry directly addresses the 'Maharishi Effect' you referenced, by the way.]

:Cheers,:
-PlanetaryNapkin.

[mej023]

Originally Posted by PlanetaryNapkin

Your response actually qualifies as an isolated anecdotal statement, and is neither scientific, nor proof.

I'd encourage you to look up the definition of either of those words.

:Cheers,:
-PlanetaryNapkin.

Laughing...in this instance, I would say that my "isolated anecdotal statement" is mostly reliable when you are talking about proof of the law of attraction.

There is adequate proof that 90 percent of what we hear from others on an Intention Manifestation forum is accurate enough to satisfy most arguments.

The reality on this forum is that anecdotal evidence is all that is available when you are discussing the Law of Attraction and the experts here acknowledge that reality.

The lack of that acknowledgment suggests that some responders are using deceptive tactics in their arguments and may actually be intellectually dishonest.

As for scientific evidence or proof, we have to decide what evidence will be sufficient to prove the existence of the law of attraction.

Proof according to you is what comes out of a controlled laboratory setting or what can be replicated in a laboratory.

My day to day reality is proof enough of the law of attraction. I would encourage you to think thoughts that make you feel good.

My message stands and was specifically intended for Sindre.