Universe or God?

[attract]

Hello everybody,

I don't believe in God (I didn't believe Him earlier) because as I realised that everything that surrounds us is the consiquences of our past thoughts, in other words The Universe is that in what I believe now, maybe because that science can explain Law Of Attraction but not the existence of The God.

Why I created this topic because when I had couple hard moments and I asked God to help me - He (Or the universe) helped me. Maybe behind the name of The Universe there is The God or otherwise The Power that people are getting from praying to God, asking to help them, actually they are praying to The Universe. Maybe It's the one and the same thing only with different names i.e. The God, The Universe, Alach, Vishnu and so on..

Waiting for your opinions. Feel free

[Elrond]

Neither. It's the Tooth fairy.


Really though, when I refer to the Universe in this context, it's because:

1. It is open-ended.
2. I believe in Oneness (shared by many on this forum), and my particular belief in Oneness negates the possibility of "God" in the common sense (also in the sense of how some New Agers' mean by God (or god, no capitol G), I think).

*Rant ON

There was one great post by, I think, Angela. She said that she doesn't believe in God for the same reason that she doesn't believe in the Tooth fairy. All this talk about being agnostic because you can't really know for sure that He (wow, capitol H also, I guess I'm maybe a believer after all) doesn't exist or not, so being an atheist is really a more unreasonable position.

Well, what is then stopping us from being agnostics when it comes to the question of whether or not the Tooth fairy exists or not. Hey, you can't prove it, can you? Might as well be an agnostic when it comes to Santa Claus etc.? I mean... has anyone disproved his existence. Didn't think so.

Logical deduction: the Tooth fairy is a viable third option.

OK, *Rant OFF*

[Ecce Homo]

Universe, god, tomato, tomoto... It's all the same to me!

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

Universe, god, tomato, tomoto... It's all the same to me!

Ditto, Ecce - what Is, Is. Everything else is just us babbling about our cute conceptual frameworks

[marinik]

If it is in any way inteligent! Why does every generation go through the same pan of growing up???????????????????????????????

[Dannyboy1]

I didn't want to reveal this, but.... (sigh) I'm the Tooth Fairy...

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

I didn't want to reveal this, but.... (sigh) I'm the Tooth Fairy...

As my niece used to say when a toddler, "Ooh! Pretty!"

[HappyBunny]

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

Universe, god, tomato, tomoto... It's all the same to me!

AMEN

[attract]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

I didn't want to reveal this, but.... (sigh) I'm the Tooth Fairy...

No worries, your secret is safe

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by attract

No worries, your secret is safe

Do you realize how many parents blame me for their kids tying their teeth to doors, pets, and motor vehicles? Hey! I just buy the teeth! I don't control how they get'em out!

[tencat]

We are not talking about tooth fairys here....this is supposed to be the belief about the law of attraction is it not?

[Nasir]

Originally Posted by attract

Hello everybody,

I don't believe in God (I didn't believe Him earlier) because as I realised that everything that surrounds us is the consiquences of our past thoughts, in other words The Universe is that in what I believe now, maybe because that science can explain Law Of Attraction but not the existence of The God.

Why I created this topic because when I had couple hard moments and I asked God to help me - He (Or the universe) helped me. Maybe behind the name of The Universe there is The God or otherwise The Power that people are getting from praying to God, asking to help them, actually they are praying to The Universe. Maybe It's the one and the same thing only with different names i.e. The God, The Universe, Alach, Vishnu and so on..

Waiting for your opinions. Feel free

I believe God made the universe. I believe the universe was made to accommodate the earth.

I believe a majority of people believe the universe is God, or worship a twisted perception of God, instead of the actual God.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain

[basil]

Originally Posted by Nasir

I believe God made the universe. I believe the universe was made to accommodate the earth.

I believe a majority of people believe the universe is God, or worship a twisted perception of God, instead of the actual God.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain

From what you've said, I can tell that you're a religious person, and since the majority of religious people believe that the universe and God are distinct, I think you should reconsider Twain's quote!

One more thing. I think that saying that "the universe was made to accommodate the earth" is another way of saying that the entire universe was made to serve MAN... I see a massively giant human ego playing around here.

Please don't be offended, I was raised upon religion and know exactly what I'm talking about.

The universe IS God. Just change the religious perspective you're observing things from and you'll see it clearly.

[Nasir]

Originally Posted by basil

From what you've said, I can tell that you're a religious person, and since the majority of religious people believe that the universe and God are distinct, I think you should reconsider Twain's quote!

One more thing. I think that saying that "the universe was made to accommodate the earth" is another way of saying that the entire universe was made to serve MAN... I see a massively giant human ego playing around here.

Please don't be offended, I was raised upon religion and know exactly what I'm talking about.

The universe IS God. Just change the religious perspective you're observing things from and you'll see it clearly.

Thanks for the reply. I'm not offended at all. If I may ask, how were you "raised upon religion?" What was your experience? I have noticed a majority of religious people don't practice what they preach, or preach twisted truth.

I don't think it's too outlandish to accept the possibility that the universe is here for Earth. We are the only life we know of. Why aren't there other neighboring planets with similar life? Why aren't there other animals that are as able as humans? Perhaps there are other planets we don't know of, and I'm open the that possibility also.

I use to believe the "universe IS God," and have had many positive experiences with that belief system. However, I've let that approach go, and I now see that there is a personal & universal aspect of God.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Nasir

Why aren't there other animals that are as able as humans?

It really depends on your definition of "able".

The cockroaches were here, long before Man showed up, and will still be here, long after Man has vanished from the face of the earth.

[Nasir]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

It really depends on your definition of "able". The cockroaches were here, long before Man showed up, and will still be here, long after Man has vanished from the face of the earth.

If cockroaches existed before man, what does that prove?

[Angela]

Cockroaches were a warm-up for man. Anyway, if December's black hole swallows us up, even the cockroaches won't make it.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Nasir

If cockroaches existed before man, what does that prove?

As I said, it depends on your definition of "able".

For example, if you define "able" as the ability, say, (1) to build machines, (2) to communicate with written words, and (3) to appreciate music and art, then yes, you would be able to say "Man is more able than other animals".

However those are entirely your own criteria.

If for example, you chose to define "able" as, say, the ability to survive as a species on planet earth for the longest time, then cockroaches beat the human race win hands-down.

If you chose to define "able" as, say, the ability to become numerically the most populous species on planet earth, then mayflies and beetles beat the human race hands-down.

If you chose to define "able" as, say, the ability to co-exist harmoniously with members of your own species, well, meerkats, caribou, lemmings and flamingos also beat the human race hands-down.

If you chose to define "able" as, say, the ability to live the longest, well, turtles and tortoises also beat man hands-down.

If you chose to define "able" as, say, the ability to avoid mental illness, most animal species also beat the human race hands-down. Have you ever heard of a bird with compulsive obsessive order, or a crocodile with schizophrenia?

It's all in the criteria you select, you see.

[Nasir]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

As I said, it depends on your definition of "able".

For example, if you define "able" as the ability, say, (1) to build machines, (2) to communicate with written words, and (3) to appreciate music and art, then yes, you would be able to say "Man is more able than other animals".

However those are entirely your own criteria.

If for example, you chose to define "able" as, say, the ability to survive as a species on planet earth for the longest time, then cockroaches beat the human race win hands-down.

If you chose to define "able" as, say, the ability to become numerically the most populous species on planet earth, then mayflies and beetles beat the human race hands-down.

If you chose to define "able" as, say, the ability to co-exist harmoniously with members of your own species, well, meerkats, caribou, lemmings and flamingos also beat the human race hands-down.

If you chose to define "able" as, say, the ability to live the longest, well, turtles and tortoises also beat man hands-down.

If you chose to define "able" as, say, the ability to avoid mental illness, most animal species also beat the human race hands-down. Have you ever heard of a bird with compulsive obsessive order, or a crocodile with schizophrenia?

It's all in the criteria you select, you see.

Very good. I see.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Angela

Cockroaches were a warm-up for man. Anyway, if December's black hole swallows us up, even the cockroaches won't make it.

What black hole? Are you talking about the LHC again? That's already started....

[SandeeHier]

Originally Posted by basil

One more thing. I think that saying that "the universe was made to accommodate the earth" is another way of saying that the entire universe was made to serve MAN... I see a massively giant human ego playing around here.

Never mind just "serve MAN..."! In Jewish philosophy it's said that each person is obliged to see the universe as having been created FOR HIMSELF (or herself, as the case may be. )

This is why I can work with the idea of subjective reality that Steve Pavlina is talking about. The idea that each person is the ONLY consciousness in the world sounds at first like sociopathically giant human ego. But oddly, thinking you're the center of your own universe actually makes you a more loving human being, I think toward all creatures.

Hey, maybe we are ALL individual projections of the SAME consciousness - like individual mushrooms, all linked under the surface. Or something.

Anyway, I don't like the term God 'cause it carries a lot of negative associations for some people, but now that we think of the universe as limited, I use the term "The Infinite One." But maybe a rose is a rose.

[fellowtraveler]

Originally Posted by SandeeHier

Hey, maybe we are ALL individual projections of the SAME consciousness - like individual mushrooms, all linked under the surface. Or something..

Bingo.

[NightSpirit]

The Universe is a creation of God and not to be worshiped. It is governed by spiritual laws as well as physical laws that have been set in place to serve us. We can make use of those laws in any way we wish.

We are all created by God with the power to create with our thoughts and words.

We can use that power to bring about anything that exists by the power of belief.

Whether we are grateful to God for this creation and use our power to honor Him is our choice.