Value of these Forums

[impaul99]

I have a question for the rest of you. Are you finding these forums valuable?

I have to say that when Steve announced that he is going to be setting up these forums I was really excited. Finally a place for like minded people to converse and share new ideas and experiences. I signed up and have been trying to post as much as I can to support the forum community, however I have come to a stumbling block here.

It may be just my perspective, but it seems like the majority of the discussions in the threads are not about discussing IM and LoA and adding new ideas or possibilities to the equation, but rather defending the concept altogether.

I have personally proved to myself that LoA and IM work a few years ago and have been using them successfully, especially in the financial category of life. I have many things to learn still and am nowhere near perfect in being able to manifest everything yet and that is why I enjoy Steve's blog as there's always something new, some new insight that takes me further along in the quest. However, when it comes to these forums I haven't had very much success learning anything new or getting any valuable information I can use to further my studies along. Does anyone else feel this way?

I guess I was hoping that this forum would be a place where people like Steve and myself and others who have had success with IM and LoA could discuss different ideas and such, but I really feel alone here. There seems to be just a few others who have tried out IM and believe in it, Steve doesn't post in here very often, and the rest of the members seem to be either very early beginners just new to IM and LoA or skeptics who don't believe in it at all.

I am not judging anyone or trying to say that the skeptics or beginners are wrong, as everyone is at a different point in life, but I'm just a bit disappointed that there aren't more people on here that are further along in the process. Have they just given up on the forums, deciding not to spend their time debating with the skeptics perhaps?

As much as I like the occasional debate on the topic to keep me grounded and get my thoughts organized, I only have so much time to answer the questions that are already answered by watching the movie "The Secret" for $5 and reading Steve's free posts and spending a bit of time on personal experimentation.

What are your guy's thoughts on these forums?

[JJH]

Hi impaul99, coincidentally (or not), I've been thinking the same thing over the last couple of days. Every thread I've been interested in just leads to the same few people with the idea that IM and LoA is "magic." I won't be drawn into arguments like that because I've no interest in defending ideas, concepts and models. Unlike them, I am no longer identified with mind. The further I feel that I advance, the less invested I am in defence...

I always enjoy answering people's questions if I feel I can bring something new to the discussion, and possibly help them. But personally, I've been getting less and less from the forum as time goes by.

I think that these things do go around in cycles though. The forum ebbs and flows, perhaps reflecting the collective consciousness of the posters? Here's to the up swing!

[Gordon]

Hello,

I think it early day and the forum will eventually find its feet. These things always take a degree of time to settle and head off in the right direction.

Personally I am new to the world of personal development and persuasion/intention/manifestation. And I am getting a lot of of reading old post.

There is obviously a lot of experienced contributors out there and a lots of happy well meaning enthusiasts as well.

So for what it is worth, the forum is a great idea and I think it will get better and more appropariate as time goes on.

Keep up the good work.

G

[dECLAN]

Originally Posted by impaul99

...however I have come to a stumbling block here.

A certain forum member wouldn't have anything to do with that would it?

Paul here is something to ponder...

Change the way you look at things and the things you look at change.

[Lil Chris]

I personally enjoy stopping by, browsing the topics, and generally enjoy the forums...

Wether defending or promoting the LOA, we are actively participating in having our minds on LOA/IM either way is a good thing, as i'm of the opinion the more you think about something and talk about that something (LOA/IM) you will enivetably make it more real... Either way it's all good...

[Frans]

I don't expect to find many new revelations here, because the technique to apply IM is very simple, and what can you say about IM other than: "it worked for me, I manifested X", or "IM/LoA doesn't work"?...

IMO, it would be better to integrate this "Intention-Manifestation" forum in the "Spirituality, Consciousness, & Awareness" forum.
After all, IM is all about consciousness, isn't it?

BTW: from the point of view of PD, what's the relevance of all these "I manifested X" threads ?
The replies on that kind of threads are usually nothing more than "wow!" or 'fantastic!".

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Frans

I don't expect to find many new revelations here, because the technique to apply IM is very simple, and what can you say about IM other than: "it worked for me, I manifested X", or "IM/LoA doesn't work"?...

I'm a bit surprised by your comment, because I actually can think of many things to discuss about IM, aside from what you have mentioned.

[dorothy hanna]

I can identify with your felling. I've found your posts really inspirational, and very helpful to those really seeking.
Your posts have helped me clarify, and put into words, in a much better way, my own experience with IM/LOA.
So, please, keep up the good work. More like-minded people are here, and more will come.
Have you also tried going onto Powerful Intentions | Law Of Attraction It has many positive people on board, and many forums available.

[Jez]

I'm new here, but getting a lot of interesting new insights through using Steve's 'no one else is real' perspective. If everything or anyone who comes into our lives is in some sense a reflection of ourselves, what is the message here? Anyway, I find it very interesting to think this way and to reflect on what part of myself each of the perspectives here reflects.

[Michael Chui]

Broadly speaking, I came to these forums mostly following an instinct saying, "Try it out. It might be a good idea.

The power of a forum has always been its ability to bring out the sharpest parts of people, since you can sit there and deconstruct a post for a couple of hours before responding with a vicious critique. Over the years, I've gotten really good at speaking my mind in writing without opening up any inconsistencies, so I find that my beliefs are stronger for it.

That's what makes these forums valuable. I also learn a lot, and sometimes I meet people, but those are added bonuses. I started out on these forums having no idea what IM was, except for a couple small tidbits that Steve posted next to subjective reality; through reading posts, I feel I've learned a lot about the practice.

[daveangeles]

Paul-
I want to thank you for your private reply to a posting I made a while ago... about financial lack.

You really helped set me on the right track, and with a few of those inconsistencies in my belief system worked out, I've found it easier to manifest things.

In the past 48 hours I have manifested $200 in income, and found out that an online retailer is refunding an erroneous $500 charge to my credit card. So that's basically like manifesting $700.

Not bad considering I came to this forum in dire straits, with absolutely no money at all.

I think what needs to happen is this: we need believer-only threads, or a section just for believers. I hate the word believer because it makes us seem like followers of a particular faith... maybe I-M 'practitioners' would be more accurate.

While a certain amount of skepticism is useful in society as a whole, within the field of I-M it just gets fatiguing to read so-called rebuttal responses on here and elsewhere.

I remember taking an excellent film course in college taught by a really great professor. But one or two people made a point of contradicting ANYTHING he said. If he said that Casablanca was a seminal film, a hand would dart up in the air and be like "Well, not really, what about the 1962 New York Times piece that said it got much of its inspiration from..."

At a certain point, the rest of us were just like "please, we realize you're a nineteen year old prodigy, but some of us would like to hear from the guy who is actually being PAID to teach."

Same deal for I-M. At a certain point, I just want to hear reassurance and run my latest techniques by people who excel in this area.

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by daveangeles

In the past 48 hours I have manifested $200 in income, and found out that an online retailer is refunding an erroneous $500 charge to my credit card. So that's basically like manifesting $700.

Argh, I didn't want to comment in this thread (out of respect). But 'reasoning' like this is what's so wrong with this stuff:

If the credit card charged you wrongly for $500 and now refunds it, how can that be a manifestation??? You're just getting your due money back that they TOOK away from you in the first place. They were legally bound to do this.

I'd really be curious as to how you manifested those $200 ...

But I'm feeling like the party-pooper again. Destroying the bubbles. If belief systems like this help people to live a better life and enables them to cope better then I should better be quiet ... Like I didn't confront my grand-ma with the absurdities of her religion either, what good would it have brought? Her illusions made her life easier. That was more important than confronting her with the falws of her belief system ...

[Angela]

I'm really impressed by the thoughfulness and insight that the people here have exhibited, and am really glad these forums are here.

impaul99 (and daveangeles), have you considered that you yourself are manifesting your own stumbling block? There are quite a few disparate discussions running through these boards, but for some reason you are drawn to and feel compelled to "answer the questions that are already answered by watching the movie "The Secret" for $5 and reading Steve's free posts and spending a bit of time on personal experimentation." Why might you be creating that for yourself?
Angela

[daveangeles]

Angela, great question. You definitely have something there. The fact that I even feel the need to defend my beliefs reflects on my own character -- if it works, why defend it, right?

I don't have a good answer for you, other than that I see a part of my old self in I-M doubters and I feel a need to address their doubts. I wish I had spent less of my life doubting, and more of it doing and creating and being.

I don't think I will any more though. My beliefs are my beliefs; if other people want to say that I would have made $700 even without I-M techniques, that's cool with me. It doesn't change the fact that I now have that money and didn't before.

[Angela]

Gotcha. I find that approach much more empowering! Maybe you needed to go through all that defensiveness in order to let go of it?

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by daveangeles

My beliefs are my beliefs; if other people want to say that I would have made $700 even without I-M techniques, that's cool with me. It doesn't change the fact that I now have that money and didn't before.

You HAD the $500 before, the bank made an error and fixed it again ... If that's an example of manifestation of $500 then I can only imagine what those other 'examples' of manifestation are ...

[daveangeles]

The difference here is timing.

If you're going to dismiss the concept of timing as not relevant, I know quite a few wealthy people on Wall Street who would disagree with you.

Sure, the $500 would have come to me eventually (maybe; I don't know too many large companies who like to give your money back -- erroneous charge or not!) -- but it came a matter of hours after fully committing to bringing a certain amount of financial abundance into my life.

Don't use smiley faces in a post if you don't have the other person's best interests at heart. Thanks.

[Brutha]

Originally Posted by Markus74

Argh, I didn't want to comment in this thread (out of respect). But 'reasoning' like this is what's so wrong with this stuff:

I think those posts are your problem. Topic hijacking.
Maybe the forum needs a bit more moderating in that area. It is okay to open a seperate thread to discuss a issue like this.
But trying to start a discussion like this in a thread about another topic, produces the problem.

Maybe the mods should either seperate those discussion from the topic, or delete it (treat it as trolling).
Discussing whether the LoA works in a thread about that topic is fine. The people who don't want to participate don't have to read the thread. But doubting whether LoA works in thread about other topics is unconstructive.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Markus74

You HAD the $500 before, the bank made an error and fixed it again ... If that's an example of manifestation of $500 then I can only imagine what those other 'examples' of manifestation are ...

Please stay on topic, at least. This is a thread about if these forums (And I think the IM Threads) are of value. This thread is getting hijacked starting to degrade already. I don't like that and it's part of the forum rules- stay on topic!

Originally Posted by impaul99

I have a question for the rest of you. Are you finding these forums valuable?

What are your guy's thoughts on these forums?

I would find them more useful if the thread's topcis were observed better. I see a lot of these forum threads going off topic with belief debates and have lost some of the desire to wade through. I'll read the end of a thread and think, how did this thread turn into this? It's been more interesting than useful. But I do like looking at the LoA ideas and tyring to understand and also relate the ideas to other older sources of wisdom or spiritual writing.

I'm not much of a practicer of IM, all that has happened is that reading these forums has made me re-realize some of my initial feelings about LoA and IM. Things that make me say - I didn't need to try to prove LoA to feel the power of it, I just looked at my body and put it together that I intended myself and there's my wonderous body continueing on full of being manifested. Those kind of ideas have found a place to write in these forums, but that's a very beginer's position.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Angela

I'm really impressed by the thoughfulness and insight that the people here have exhibited, and am really glad these forums are here.

impaul99 (and daveangeles), have you considered that you yourself are manifesting your own stumbling block? There are quite a few disparate discussions running through these boards, but for some reason you are drawn to and feel compelled to "answer the questions that are already answered by watching the movie "The Secret" for $5 and reading Steve's free posts and spending a bit of time on personal experimentation." Why might you be creating that for yourself?
Angela

Well, the alternative would simply be to ignore Markus or anyone else who disagree's with anything we say and just keep posting but then that would be like saying that one person deserves my help, while another doesn't.

Now that I write this, I actually think you may be right. Perhaps the whole lesson here for me is simply to realize that I haven't yet figured out a way to choose who I decide to help here. So far I've been willing to offer help to anyone that asks for it or asks a question, even if they don't agree with me I at least try to explain to them what I mean, but perhaps that's my problem.

I know it has helped me in the past in my career to help only those who want my help and are willing to work for it. Similar to my martial arts training, my Sensei doesn't just teach everything to everyone. You have to show up to class, pay your fees, train hard and as you progress he teaches you new things. If you don't put in the effort to try technique #1 or technique #2, there's no way he'll bother teaching #3 or #4. Maybe I need to have a better filtering system for who I choose to reply to, so that I'm not spending all my time writing posts to people who aren't really looking for help, but rather looking for an excuse not to try this out.

To stay on topic with this thread though, how then can we work to improve these forums so that both beginners and more experienced practitioners can both get value from here?

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by daveangeles

Paul-
I want to thank you for your private reply to a posting I made a while ago... about financial lack.

You really helped set me on the right track, and with a few of those inconsistencies in my belief system worked out, I've found it easier to manifest things.

In the past 48 hours I have manifested $200 in income, and found out that an online retailer is refunding an erroneous $500 charge to my credit card. So that's basically like manifesting $700.

You're very welcome Dave! I was wondering what happened with you when I didn't get any more replies. I was a bit worried that maybe my blunt suggestions might have scared you away. It's very nice to hear that something I said helped you out. Sometimes it's hard to know what exactly is the right thing people are looking for at a specific time.

I would have the following suggestions for you next:

1) Use the $200 and the $500 you manifested as stepping stones to manifesting even bigger things, if that's what you choose. Don't let anyone tell you that they are just co-incidental and it wasn't IM that did this and that it was just luck. Even if it was 50% luck, use the other 50% as a springboard to manifest bigger and more incredible things. As you do that, you will begin to shift your thinking into believing that the new things you manifest are 25% luck possibly and 75% IM, and then 10%/90% etc.

In the end, if you get what you want, who gives a crap if you're using the Law of Attraction or IM, or if you've just found a way to manifest super luck into your life. As long as you get what you want, who cares how you got it right? You came to this forum broke. You listened to what some of us said, and now you have more money than you had before. You will never know if that $500 charge would have come back without IM. It's simply up to you to decide if you believe it to be co-incidental or if it's just the universe saying "OK, how exactly can I give this guy the $500 he wants without it appearing in his life in such a crazy way that it ruins his entire reality? Hmmm...OH! I know, I'll disguise it as a Visa charge gone bad and give him $500 that way! This way he has $500 for Christmas presents, and he has a logical explanation to cling onto so his life doesn't get too wacky."

2) Keep us updated with your successes and let us know if you need help with anything else. I started this thread wondering if I get value out of any of these forums, and your post already shows me I do. If I helped you to manifest $700 into your life, that's awesome! It keeps me motivated to keep coming back and help those who want help.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by impaul99

To stay on topic with this thread though, how then can we work to improve these forums so that both beginners and more experienced practitioners can both get value from here?

I would think, even with beginers and experienced people, as long as staying on topic, there would be a more organized thread that has value, or value that is easier to access.

I don't see forums the same as a teaching environment, myself, unless there are appointed gurus or something. It's up to each individual if they want to reply and think they have something helpful or interesting.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by impaul99

To stay on topic with this thread though, how then can we work to improve these forums so that both beginners and more experienced practitioners can both get value from here?

I think the answer to that is: Continue to create a space of freedom for everyone to be fully expressed. I believe that more experienced practitioners have even more to gain from the presence of beginners than vice-versa.

impaul99, you seem genuinely committed to helping people, and I commend you for that. Have you considered the possibility that the frustration you've expressed by starting this thread might contain the seed for a giant breakthrough? I'd like to invite you to look at how what frustrates you about others in this area might just be something you own yourself.

[Adam]

Here's a handy way to improve the value of the forums.

Instead of telling someone that they are off topic (which, by the way, happens to be off topic as well), report the post. In this case, the moderating team would have a very hard time deleting Markus's replies, because of how many people have responded to it, and now being on/off topic is part of the overall topic of this thread (how to improve the forums) which makes Markus's post, as well as Dave's post (to which Markus was replying, and was the first case of being off topic) a necessary part of this thread.

If it were reported, we would have been able to talk Markus into either editing his post, or we would have been able to delete it.

This only applies to posts that are obviously off topic, though. If someone is debating, and you don't like that person's points, then it probably will not be deleted. To improve the quality of the forums in those cases, either ignore the post, or give constructive feedback. Moderation does not mean censorship, it means being able to resolve problems in the most effective manner for every group involved.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by impaul99

It may be just my perspective, but it seems like the majority of the discussions in the threads are not about discussing IM and LoA and adding new ideas or possibilities to the equation, but rather defending the concept altogether.

I think I know your problem ...... It is my problem too. Anyway I will start a couple of new threads and topics, and let's see where we go from there.

[Brutha]

Originally Posted by Adam

If it were reported, we would have been able to talk Markus into either editing his post, or we would have been able to delete it.

That wasn't the point. If the target would have been the single post, i would have used report or I would have PMed Markus.
Their are other posts like this and they create the problem the thread is about: Those people who believe in the are dragged into are discussion whether LoA works or doesn't work, when they discuss something that has to do with the LoA.

Sure, it is acceptable to allow those posts.
If there is something going on with reduces the value of the forum for its members that a problem of moderation.
As moderators you can say you agree with "how things are" or change the dynamic of the forum.
You have different tools to do this and it is your choice which you want to use.