Loa

[blazer1]

I think there is a lot of misconception about LOA.

People think it is some magical thing where if you think about something it will happen. The fact is, its not magical, its natural.

You cant think about something for long enough and expect it to happen. You need action.

For most of us action takes a lot of movitation.

Motivation takes desire.

Therefore desire is the key to LOA.

If you have enough desire for something, say to the same extent of having sex or eating when you are hungry, then LOA works.

It is nothing magical ffs. Its just how your brain works.

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by blazer1

I think there is a lot of misconception about LOA.

People think it is some magical thing where if you think about something it will happen. The fact is, its not magical, its natural.

You cant think about something for long enough and expect it to happen. You need action.

For most of us action takes a lot of movitation.

Motivation takes desire.

Therefore desire is the key to LOA.

If you have enough desire for something, say to the same extent of having sex or eating when you are hungry, then LOA works.

It is nothing magical ffs. Its just how your brain works.

I've seen this idea that you 'gotta take action' come up quite often around here. I'm not so sure that is true. At least, not in the way it's meant. You can, in fact, sit around and attract things, events, people to you. If you don't believe me, just ask a woman.

If a woman wants to attract a man, she doesn't directly go up to a guy and ask him on a date. That isn't attraction. What she does is get guys to come to her by looking attractive. Now, looking attractive does require action, but it isn't the same as going after what you want.

I think that is kind of the point of all this. Going after what you want makes whatever it is runaway from you. But if you look like something 'it' wants, then it comes right to you.

[jawillie]

Getting in the flow of co-creation doesn't mean we sit on the couch and watch TV and "do nothing."

Getting in the flow of co-creation (for me) means I am alert, aware, and present... free from limiting beliefs and especially free from social-conditioning. I have no anxiety, no depression and no anger.

It is like.... life opening up to you..... You can sit in a closed box made up of your negative thoughts, gripes, complaints, victim-stories, sadness, depression, anxiety, anger, pity, greed and self-hate.... or you can let go of them and suddenly the light shines on you... the box breaks away... and there is... LIFE.

You SEE the possibilities.
You SEE the opportunities.
You SEE "your next move."

The universe says, "Oh... there you are!!! Here you go... here is life..."

I don't know. That's how it has been for me.

Has a Million bucks plopped on my lap? Nope. Better things have.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

jawillie, you are very inspiring.

mercury, I kind of like that analogy of attraction, believe it or not.

[Ecce Homo]

Originally Posted by mercuryrising

But if you look like something 'it' wants, then it comes right to you.

That’s good! It’s almost another way of saying that one has to be resonant with one’s desires before those desires can be made manifest. Bottom line, the belief that YOU MUST TAKE ACTION OR IT WON’T HAPPEN is a myth propagated by our society and one that many of us grew up believing with all our heart. This myth usually translates in practice into “hard” work, sweat, toil, difficulty, self discipline (which again in practice often means beating yourself up emotionally) and downright pain. We tell ourselves that if it does not hurt, then it must not work. No pain, no gain we say as we put our faces back down to the grindstone of hard labor. The universe obviously does manifest desires via the path of blood, sweat and tears, but my understanding of the LOA and intention manifestation is that this is not necessary to create the life you want. If you’ll intend what you want first and give the details over to the universe, also known by the unfortunate spiritual term surrender, then you’ll find all that you need to create the life that you want coming to you, including any inspired actions that might be necessary to accomplish your goal. And yes, sometimes these resources do come without any “action” on your part. I’ve experienced this time and time again, so I’m not spouting off something I read in a book. I’m speaking from my own personal experience.

[ciarac]

I honestly find it a little sad that you don't find something magical about the Law of Attraction. No, it's not casting spells but for me, magic is something a. unexpected, b. wonderful, c. an enigma
All of those things, to me, are what the LoA is.
I think what you've done in saying what you said, Blazer1 is to take ALL of the magic out of it. It's not hocus pocus but no need to take ALL the magic out of it, is there?
I think it is far more than 'motivation', 'desire' or 'goal-setting', or whatever you want to put it down to.
Just having read so many stories and having seen so many things I want come my way when I want them too recently, I don't believe it is 'simply' anything.
You can simplify it as Like Attracts Like, but I don't think it is simple in itself, there is something magical there, at least in the way that I think of magic.

[Wax Frog]

This topic deals with two of my constant concerns:

1) If there isn't a seemingly-acausal* aspect to this, then it's nothing special or deserving of a lofty title like LOA, so why bother?
2) If that seemingly-acausal* aspect is in fact present, I'm wrestling to understand why "action" is needed. Why can't thought alone make something magical (figuratively speaking) happen?

*I'm sure there's a term that would better convey what I mean, but it escapes me.

[Acting Like Godot]

Basically the answer is quite simple.

The universe works in certain ways. Humans want to know how. They develop separate lines of inquiry to find their answers. But in the end, it's still the same universe.

As far as consciousness and reality is concerned, very similar sorts of answers will keep cropping up, whatever line of inquiry you explore. The answers are very similar, not identical, becase they spring from different philosophies, methodologies and so on. But in the end, it's the same universe being studied, so the answers will be very similar.

Go and find out more about LOA, hypnosis, magick, NLP, neuroscience, quantum physics, Buddhism, meditation, the paranormal, reiki, psychic phenomena, Jungian psychology. Understand that all these words are just labels and descriptions. Search out the common threads. They all come together to form one big picture.

Before I digress too widely, I'll just offer you the standard definition of magick, which comes from Aleister Crowley, the world's most famous occultist:

Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will.

If you cannot see the relationship between magick and LOA, well .... never mind.

As for that "action" thing .... people, don't be silly. Up to now, can you still not see? Action is merely a form of thought. Some of your actions may change your reality, but NONE of your actions were NOT an expression of your thought. If you were brain-dead, you wouldn't be taking any action.

And simple logic tells you that the fact that your action (a form of thought) can affect your reality absolutely does not go towards disproving (at all) the proposition that other forms of your thought (which do not result in your own actions) cannot also affect your reality.

This is straightforward logic.

Now if you want to know whether your non-action thoughts can affecr reality, you can jolly well go experiment and see. Personally I have no doubt since I succeed in this quite regularly and consistently and have checked myself for all sorts of possible cognitive biases in assessing my own results.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

As far as consciousness and reality is concerned, very similar sorts of answers will keep cropping up, whatever line of inquiry you explore. The answers are very similar, not identical, becase they spring from different philosophies, methodologies and so on. But in the end, it's the same universe being studied, so the answers will be very similar.

About thirty minutes ago I was discussing the bible and how I used to believe only people who were of the right religion were granted these "powers" (only the true believers) then I was thinking, the things that happen in the bible are very similar to what we discuss here (except it's open to everyone, not just the disciples)... so how could that be. Well it's because the truth is everywhere and no matter the clothing or language it uses, it's speaking from the same source, so the true nature of reality can't help but show up all over the place.

So I'm logging this as synchronicity number whatever for the day.

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

2) If that seemingly-acausal* aspect is in fact present, I'm wrestling to understand why "action" is needed. Why can't thought alone make something magical (figuratively speaking) happen?

It can, if the purity of the thought is sufficient. And by purity, I mean no contradiction in thought.

Luke 17:6

And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

Mark 11:23

For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Mark 11:24

Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

Even Buddha said:

"All that we are is the result of what we have thought."

Physical action is intended to be a way of experiencing creation, rather than a MEANS of producing creation.

If you'll notice, you are ALWAYS in a state of action. The action may be small, or large, but the universe never stops. It isn't dead, its always moving. When you realize that everything is one, and that the distortions in the thought stream we recognize as separation are actually elaborate illusions, you see that there is nothing stopping any aspect of reality from communicating with any other aspect of reality.

Limits are like sculptures. They are necessary in order to empower creativity, but they are still self imposed. We manifest within the scope of certain limitations (like, space, gravity, and other "laws of physics") in order to facilitate certain creative experiences, but processes that are not necessary for the desired experiences we are here for can be manipulated if the purity of thought is sufficient.

[blazer1]

Anthony Robbins, the Secret, Power of Now - Tolle and all that new-age rubbish towards self-development started with 1 person, Napolean Hill, which was in line with Rene Destartes when he said "I think therefore I am". And it shits me that these new-age retards make this simple yet elegant fact of nature so mystical (just to sell more books).

The fact is, you are what you think you are, this is the Ego (see my other posts on Ego).

**IMPORTANT: The world (i.e. your lifes circumstances) presents to you a possible reality, but not necessarily the ACTUAL reality.

So this is how LOA works --- when you are able to visualise the 'alternate world' within your imagination ... the difference between the physicality and it's abstract counter-part slowly dissipates. In other words, you step into your imaginary world. But just remember, action starts with a thought. A thought alone has no physical expression!

If you have not already, read Think and Grow Rich by Napolean Hill ... and I promise you won't ever need to buy another self-help book ever again.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by blazer1

Anthony Robbins, the Secret, Power of Now - Tolle and all that new-age rubbish towards self-development started with 1 person, Napolean Hill

Nonsense. Napoleon Hill's "Think and Grow Rich" was published only in 1937. That is 25 years after Charles Haanel's "The Master Key System" which was published in 1912.

Charles Haanels "The Master Key System" itself was published six years after William Walker Atkinson published "Thought Vibration or the Law of Attraction in the Thought World", which appeared in 1906.

Eight years before William Walker Atkinson published ""Thought Vibration or the Law of Attraction in the Thought World", Elizabeth Towne already started publishing a journal entitled "Nautilus" (in 1898), which related to the Law of Attraction and was published regularly for more than half a century.

Elizabeth Towne was a prominent figure, in her time, of the New Thought movement, but the New Thought Movement itself is considerably older than Elizabeth Towne. An earlier proponent was Phineas Parkhurst Quimby, who was born in 1802.

And this is just the history of the Law of Attraction in the USA alone - a country which, in those days, would not have been considered a particularly significant, powerful or advanced civilisation in the overall global scheme of things.

William Walker Atkinson in fact drew his inspiration from Indian spiritual teachings about mind & reality, which themselves are a lot older than the USA.

[blazer1]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Nonsense. Napoleon Hill's "Think and Grow Rich" was published only in 1937. That is 25 years after Charles Haanel's "The Master Key System" which was published in 1912.

Charles Haanels "The Master Key System" itself was published six years after William Walker Atkinson published "Thought Vibration or the Law of Attraction in the Thought World", which appeared in 1906.

Eight years before William Walker Atkinson published ""Thought Vibration or the Law of Attraction in the Thought World", Elizabeth Towne already started publishing a journal entitled "Nautilus" (in 1898), which related to the Law of Attraction and was published regularly for more than half a century.

Elizabeth Towne was a prominent figure, in her time, of the New Thought movement, but the New Thought Movement itself is considerably older than Elizabeth Towne. An earlier proponent was Phineas Parkhurst Quimby, who was born in 1802.

And this is just the history of the Law of Attraction in the USA alone - a country which, in those days, would not have been considered a particularly significant, powerful or advanced civilisation in the overall global scheme of things.

William Walker Atkinson in fact drew his inspiration from Indian spiritual teachings about mind & reality, which themselves are a lot older than the USA.

Hey, thanks for correcting me. Obviously I have not heard of the other people you mentioned!

Do you feel Elizabeth Towne and her literature is better than Napolean Hill?

Thanks again man, I don't mind being corrected at all! (but you can see my point however though right?)

And which Hindu texts did William Walker get inspiration from?

[Lisa McGregor]

There's also Wallace D Wattles' "The Science of getting rich" published in 1910. This is the book that inspired The Secret.
L

[mercuryrising]

Or "As a Man Thinketh" by James Allen, originally published in 1902. A wonderful little book. I was just re-reading it tonight.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by blazer1

If you have not already, read Think and Grow Rich by Napolean Hill ... and I promise you won't ever need to buy another self-help book ever again.

And you can't know this. That book may not be the key for every one at every specific time. It wasn't for me.

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Now if you want to know whether your non-action thoughts can affecr reality, you can jolly well go experiment and see. Personally I have no doubt since I succeed in this quite regularly and consistently and have checked myself for all sorts of possible cognitive biases in assessing my own results.

Sorry, didn't mean to paint with such a broad brush. My quarrel here is with the "inspired action is how it works" camp. That stance always bugged the heck out of me, as I felt that if LOA were real it ought to be just as available to those unable to move or speak as anyone else.

I don't particularly desire to be a couch-potato, but it will be a tremendous motivator (to keep up LOA, and get my zest for life back) if I can manage to spontaneously "open some doors" (or should I keep telling myself the doors are already open, or that there are no doors?).

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by blazer1

And which Hindu texts did William Walker get inspiration from?

No doubt the Bhagavad Gita had something to do with it.

William Walker Atkinson was majorly influenced by Indian spiritual teachings, to the extent that he wrote quite a number of books using an Indian name as a pseudonym.

William's books were not merely limited to what we typically think of the " Law of Attraction" these days. He also wrote extensively about topics like divination, mediumship, channelling etc etc.

[blazer1]

I think when I said Think and Grow Rich is the only you would need, I was implying he has taken the idea of thought leads to results and turned it into a practical guide.

Whereas writers before him were writing more on a philosophical level.

Dont you agree?

[nightdiamond]

I think one side of the discussion is this way; thoughts can create or attract things, and the universe is abundant and non-judgmental, so why not should someone be able to just think it and bring that desire to him or her, without any other effort?

If the universe is non-judgmental, then it won't reject your request because it thinks you're 'lazy' for wanting it to come to you without any effort...

The other side of the discussion seems to say that by thinking no other effort is required for I.M other than just thinking about a desire or intending it, and expecting it to happen or come right to your door, encourages magical thinking and near superstition...

After all even if you do meet the right person , you can't expect him or her to jump straight into your arms, do all the talking, planning ect, right?

Both sides, to me, have good points that just can't be ignored....

For myself, I like working hard for something if I can enjoy the same benefits..and to be honest, at times working hard and giving effort may bring about the things you want just as fast or even faster than trying to I.M it all the time...

If for example Person A is willing to seize an opportunity when it comes and puts in the extra effort, then I.M will seem more successful; That person gets what he or she wants and enjoys it....

If Person B feels that no effort should be required, then what if I.M places an opportunity in front of that person, but is rejected because it requires effort and isn't really I.M? Then that person ignores it and wonders if it's working... and doesn't enjoy results and is left still wanting, wishing...

I'll take person A please...

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by blazer1

I think when I said Think and Grow Rich is the only you would need, I was implying he has taken the idea of thought leads to results and turned it into a practical guide.

Whereas writers before him were writing more on a philosophical level.

Dont you agree?

Not really. Some of the earlier writers were quite practical. I don't think that anyone would say that Wallace Wattles and Charles Haanel, for instance, were not practical.

Haanel's book, by the way, is said to be the book that inspired Bill Gates to drop out of Harvard University and start up Microsoft.

[Mags]

Originally Posted by blazer1

And which Hindu texts did William Walker get inspiration from?

I don't know for sure in Walker's case, but the Vedas (ancient Indian sacred texts) as well as the Hermetic teachings (ancient Egyptian and Greek) all describe a universe that operates according to principles that we today refer to as the Law of Attraction.

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by nightdiamond

For myself, I like working hard for something if I can enjoy the same benefits..and to be honest, at times working hard and giving effort may bring about the things you want just as fast or even faster than trying to I.M it all the time...

I have zero issue with working hard, ***especially*** if it's something I could enjoy/get passionate about (like art, particularly the digital variety). I just need "open doors", a sense of direction, and reason to believe that I can get from where I am now to where I need to be. "Acausal" LOA would be a HUGE help in all those areas.

(If this is right venue for me, maybe I'll eventually 'connect with', and be able to confide in, someone here who fully gets what I'm missing and can convey it, so I can settle my 'inertia' issue once and for all...)

[blazer1]

The reason why I posted this topic was because it was really annoying me how some people think merely thinking of something will make it happen.

A thought alone has no tangible form. But a tangible form (say art, or money, or relationship) does begin with a thought.

It is also understood, the dominant thought in ones head (say of a desire for something) influences ones actions. For example, if you are planning a holiday somewhere and you need to save, then you constantly thinking about your holiday, will make you also be pennywise. And in the case you did not think about your holiday at all, then you would not be so money wise.

About visualising what you want to become, this should almost be common-sense to people. How would you know what to do, if you did not know what you exactly wanted? Sure you want cash, but that has no meaning apart from a concept. You need associations with a wealthy life. Nice cars, house etc ...


So LOA does not refer to think something onto your lap.

It means, think of something often enough such that it becomes a 'burning desire' then naturally it will cause you to be proactive in your actions.



think back to things you achieved in your life that were big. such as a degree, a first house, a porsche,etc ... did yo not think about this a lot before it happened? and in thinking, did you not work towards it?

or did you just think about it and it happened?! I think I have made my point.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by blazer1

or did you just think about it and it happened?! I think I have made my point.

Well, let me make my point. There are many occasions on which I have simply "thought about it" and it happened.

I do understand that if you have not consciously experienced this yourself, then you will find it quite hard to accept.

Let me be clear, however, that I have no objections to the idea of taking action on your goals. Action, after all, is a form of thought, and all forms of thought have the ability to affect reality.

However, IMO, it is rather limiting to believe that your own personal actions is the only way to achieve your goals. Also, the "action" route has its inherent disadvantages, for example:

(a) over-reliance and over-application leads to stress, exhaustion, overwork etc;

(b) there can be many complex situations where you simply do not know what is the appropriate or best action to take;

(c) there can be many situations where there is simply no action you can take (where the outcome depends on factors beyond the influence of your own actions).

The key problem with the "action only" belief is that you cut yourself off from all resources in the universe.

[Acting Like Godot]

Here is a convenient old post where I've listed & summarised 10 examples of how my intentions manifested, with no action on my part.

I wish to emphasise that I had not selected these 10 examples because they were the most exciting or dramatic examples I've ever experienced, of intentions manifesting without action. I chose these 10 examples simply because they happened to be the 10 most recent examples to have happened, at the time when I was writing that post (March 2008).

A more recent example - I've just secured a job which pays $276,400 a year. Basically I manifested for more money. Next day the job offer came.

Note - I had not applied for any jobs nor told anyone that I was planning to change jobs. (As a matter of fact, I was just manifesting for money, not a new job).

[blazer1]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Here is a convenient old post where I've listed & summarised 10 examples of how my intentions manifested, with no action on my part.

And you said:

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

1. This is very recent - 13 March 2008. At lunchtime, I close my eyes and manifest for a new career option. By evening, a search firm calls me and asks me to explore a new job opportunity. I know nothing about this search firm; I did not apply for any job; I do not know how the search firm came to know about me.

2. This is also recent. I am thinking of some old friends; there is one in particular whom I want to have lunch with, but I have not met him for about half a year. I visualise his face; swirl him around in my mind's eye; and think "LUNCH". Two days later, at lunchtime, I bump into him at the train station. (In fact, he normally does not take the train at all - but his car had broken down that day).

I don't mean to be offensive (to both of you two) ... but what you are suggesting is absolutely crazy.

If you are young, in your teens or something then ok fair enough ... you have much to learn.

But if you are adults ... then I really would like you to consider some facts:

a) Thought exists only in your head. Your actions (inc. speech) is dictated by your thoughts. I.e. Thought leads to action.

b) Events that are outside of your immediate control (such as your friends car breaking down) ... cannot be influenced by your thoughts. This is just common-sense.

c) The two examples:

i) Getting a promotion: you perhaps wanted a promotion, so you thought about a promotion? you perhaps felt you were doing a good job recently, and deserved a promotion? Or were you being an absolute tool of an employee, taking sick days, late days, not working much ... and just thought of a promotion, visualised it, and you go it?
I would say, you are a good employee, and you were recently thinking about a promotion. And that day was the day your boss decided to tell you about a promotion. It's just probability. The world is in chaos.

ii) Running into your friend, while you were thinking about him/her: this comes down to chance (yet again!) ... i admit it's a rare chance, but its just chance. Nothing special.



Now if we assume you all are true. How many millionaires or successful people do you know that never worked a day in their lives, but constantly meditated on what they wanted? zilch?



Don't fool yourself.

If you have ambitions to be rich, then work hard.


Auto-suggestion (that is repetitive thought + visualisation) is meant to generate the correct mindset for correct action. It doesn't give you things for nothing. This is just foolishness.

And it's because of people like you, LOA is ridiculed. It is just misunderstood.

[Bradshaw]

Originally Posted by blazer1

Auto-suggestion (that is repetitive thought + visualisation) is meant to generate the correct mindset for correct action.

Hey! That's exactly what i thought at first when i learned about IM.

"Even if this is all false, i can use thoughts/visualisation to get myself to do what i want to do."

So i experimented and this proved true.

So why don't you, like i did, experiment? Try manifesting yellow umbrellas on sunny days, or lottery stars, or healthier skin, or money. Really. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, and if it works, it works.

And of course i shouldn't need to mention that action is a part of thought, and IF action is how the universe sees fit according to your perception of reality to bring you what you are manifesting, then action will not feel like action. It's like effortless action. It'll feel fun and you will be deeply immersed with it.

[blazer1]

Originally Posted by Bradshaw

And of course i shouldn't need to mention that action is a part of thought, and IF action is how the universe sees fit according to your perception of reality to bring you what you are manifesting, then action will not feel like action. It's like effortless action. It'll feel fun and you will be deeply immersed with it.

But the action is still there. These guys are saying it takes only thought to manifest something into it's physical counter-part. Which is just foolishness.

So theorectically, by their logic, I can be sitting in a room, all by myself, deep in meditation that someone like Miranda Kerr will eventually just knock on my door and want to screw my brains out. If i were to sit there for several years, and have 100 percent belief it will happen ... it still wont happen. It will take action!


So dont be a fool!

[Acting Like Godot]

No, Blazer. You simply do not understand the LOA, that is all. Really.

(Also you have misunderstood the example I gave. I did not get a promotion because I did a good job.

I simply manifested for more money ... And the very next morning, an ex-boss of mine, someone whom I had not spoken to at all for the past 1.5 years, called me up and offered me a new job, for more money).

Of course you may dismiss this as coincidences. As I mentioned, you need to consistently experience such coincidences on a regular basis, before you can accept that these are not just "coincidences".

I have scrupulously documented my "coincidences" for about two years now, so I know what this is all about.

---

Also you do not need to encourage me to work hard to get rich. I used to work very hard, and I earned a decent living. Then I discovered the LOA (in the 2nd half of 2006).

Now I work much less hard and earn a lot more money. I have previously scanned and posted my income documents on this forum, to show the income growth. You can use the search engine to find those posts, if you like.

For now, suffice it to say that my monthly salary has almost tripled in two short years (from $8,000 in 2006 to $23,000 in June 2008 - I will be starting on my $23,000 job in June).

---

Also, I see you are a fan of TAGR. I wonder if you have really practised it?

If so, there is a way you can ascertain whether what I say about LOA is true. Turn to the chapter about the counsellors. Do that. Call an appropriate counsellor and ask him if what I sau is true.

By the way, Napoleon Hill's "counsellor" methods are just one step before full-blown channelling. In case you do not know what channelling is, google "Abraham Hicks" and find out.