The Universe loves games (like I-M)

[Frans]

In order to successfully apply I-M, you need the cooperation of an "extern" power (= outside your "human" consciousness). You can call it what you like: the Universe, the super-consciousness, your underconsciousness, etc. This power manifests the object of your desire.

For example, you do a little experiment to test I-M and the LoA: you want to hear a particular old (almost forgotten) song on the radio. You concentrate on this intention, then you switch the radio on. Wham! They are playing that song! Amazingly! I-M works!

However...

Where is the origin of your thought "I want to hear this song"?...

Are you the creator of that thought? Then I-M would be real.
What if the Universe (or your underconsciousness) plants this thought in your mind?
In this case YOU are not the Intention maker, it's the Universe that's playing a game with you...

[impaul99]

You are correct Frans. This is a recent discovery of mine as well. We are conditioned to think that our thoughts originate from within our brains and thus belong to us and we created them 100%. I don't believe that anymore. "The Disappearance of the Universe" , "Your Immortal Reality" and ACIM have some very interesting ideas about that.

Have you been able to get far with this concept? I'd be curious to hear what you've figured out.

[Frans]

Years ago I developed my own concept of "subjective reality" (though that term was unknown for me at that time).

In my subjective reality model I don't need to apply I-M in order to get what I need (I posted this in another thread today).

I didn't base my theory on words or books of others, I was forced to think about my life because of the strange (unusual) things that happened to me. It was never my goal to find a theory about reality, I only wanted to know why these special things happened to me.

Anyway, I'll do my best to translate my writings in English ASAP.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by impaul99

We are conditioned to think that our thoughts originate from within our brains and thus belong to us and we created them 100%. I don't believe that anymore. "The Disappearance of the Universe" , "Your Immortal Reality" and ACIM have some very interesting ideas about that.

You may also wish to investigate Buddhist ideas on that. It's called karma. Your thoughts are the consequence of earlier thoughts which are the consequence of even earlier thoughts ....

.... therefore it traces back to thoughts in your past life, and thoughts in your past, past life and your past, past, past life etc.

Since your thoughts attract consequences in "physical reality", well, basically that's why. among other things, you are "rewarded" for "good" deeds, and punished for "bad" deeds.

"Good" deeds originate with good intention, which attract good things into your life. Correspondingly, for bad deeds.

---------

Meditation would be the way you reach an inner space, train your mind and finally are able to "not think", or if you would like to think, to "think consciously" - ie generate new thoughts as a result of your deliberate choice, rather than as a consequence of past thoughts (ie previous conditioned responses).

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Frans

In order to successfully apply I-M, you need the cooperation of an "extern" power (= outside your "human" consciousness). You can call it what you like: the Universe, the super-consciousness, your underconsciousness, etc. This power manifests the object of your desire.

Looks like I can pitch the "all is one" idea here. I mean, the "extern" power you write about being outside of "human" consciousness is actually what we all have forgotten that we really are. We, each one of us, are the one and only consciousness once we let go of our illusions of being a seperate ego in an objective world. So the cooperation of an extern power is really the authentic you (were you is the one consciousness of all/everything). It is not outside of us, it is inside us and is our full being.

[Frans]

For the sake of simplicity, I consider the Universe as an extern power that manifests your intentions.

Wolfgang, can you explain what you mean with:

Originally Posted by wolfgang

We, each one of us, are the one and only consciousness once we let go of our illusions of being a seperate ego in an objective world.

Is it...
(a) "I don't need the Universe to manifest my intentions"
(b) "I am the Universe"

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Frans

For the sake of simplicity, I consider the Universe as an extern power that manifests your intentions.

...wolfgang: "We, each one of us, are the one and only consciousness once we let go of our illusions of being a seperate ego in an objective world."

Is it...
(a) "I don't need the Universe to manifest my intentions"
(b) "I am the Universe"

I like to think that there's a basic oneness from which all things manifest. But I don't put that oneness outside of myself since I (ego) am one such fleeting manifestation of that oneness. It's not that "I" am the universe, since I am an ego that feels seperate - but that I am a projection/manifestation from all that is and, at an ultimate conclusion, also the universe or "all that is". Still it's hard to put in words - it's a duality of sorts. I am this ego thing and also the universe (but not in the same sense). I can't say "I am the Universe" because that implies, by using the word "I", as being a seperate object on it's own. But there's really no way to seperate out the universe (when defined as everything that is) and treat it like an object that we can look at. Something like this is what I was trying to say.

I don't feel that my intentions are manifested by an external power, or what I decide is dictated by something that is not me(?). That sounds like I'm a puppet to that external power and I don't feel that way. I do think there are ways to suffer less by tunning into the universe (or whatever to call that oneness) such that my ego gets to experience more harmony. Maybe that can be the same thing - tunning into the universe and chosing harmnoy is also letting intentions be directed by an "external power" (as seen from the ego).

But, as far as an "extrenal power that manifests my intentions", I tend to consider that "external power" to be the oneness that I came from (and everyone else) and of which I still have a connection, or as a seperate ego might be able to feel as a part.