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Even when you are consciously choosing not to think, thoughts will still arise. A person may occasionally feel spaced out during meditation (consciousness splattered across the landscape), but it is only temporary. It would be impossible to live a normal life if one was continuously in that state. |
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This thread is great for helping me with that, thanks all... |
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__________________ Peace, Floyd |
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When you are truly present, every moment becomes beautiful. It is the revealing of that inherent beauty in all things that every artist strives for in their work. And whatever life brings you becomes your art. I work in a machine shop. A co-worker and I both make music on the side and we were discussing how the various sounds of the different machines inspired us. I can see some great artist washing dishes at a restaurant and suddenly being inspired by the way clam chowder sticks to the side of a bowl. Or the water spots on a glass. Most stories are about regular people doing regular jobs. How can anyone know what it's like to be those people unless they are one of them? I think you know all of this. |
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I personally prefer Ram Das or Thich Nhat Han, but my girlfriend who read the entire "Left Behind" series needs to hear it from Oprah. That's cool. When it comes from me, it's something weird. From Oprah, it's palatable. I realized a long time ago that most of the human population is not like me and I don't hold it against them any more. |
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Artists have often used sufferings of the past as subject material for their work. Picasso painted an incredible, abstract painting of the bombing of the Spanish town, Guernica, by the Nazis in 1936. He was expressing the pain and suffering which he and others had felt at that time. So, no, being happy, happy, happy in the present moment, is not a prerequisite for producing great works of art. |
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| agree, trying to control the mind is what makes it hard to "control" it. the more one tries to control it the more it seems like we can't control it. if one doesn't approach the mind's thoughts as something to control, we ironically have the upper hand in a way - we become a supervisor that can direct or push the mind in a direction or select thoughts and even suggest thoughts. Quote:
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I believe there is a two way flow. Concepts and images often arise from our subconscious without our conscious control (especially in dreams). As they filter through to the conscious mind, we try to make sense of them, by putting them in a context we understand, which may be linguistic, or it could be pictorial, auditory, or just a certain feeling. We can also directly ask for information from the subconscious. Again, concepts and images will be yielded up to the conscious mind. If we interpret them correctly, they can be very useful. But, yes, there is a lot of random noise as well. We can also consciously create strong, positive thoughts, which sink down into the subconscious, which have an effect there, and again, yield a response (programming the subconscious?). This is especially useful when trying to break unwanted habits and behaviour patterns. |
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So it isn't about NOT thinking it is about "Right Thinking" which is to say that the mind is a tool for consciousness to unfurl itself, evolve, and/or expand (however you want to think of it). |
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The closest I've come into it is doing a very deep meditation, and having the effects last two or three days (as you say, the effect is temporary). This has happened to me maybe on five, six times in my life. What you may not be seeing, Cantando, is that it is absolutely possible to live an outwardly "normal" life in that state, and in fact live it better than before. Let me describe how it was for me, Cantando - this is my personal experience. You DON'T become a zombie, when you're in that state, Cantando. Instead you become calm, peaceful, happy ..... and extremely, extremely intelligent, brilliant, productive & efficient. An example - I go to work, in that state. I sit down at my desk. There is a highly technical, difficult piece of work that needs to be done. In my "normal" state, I might procrastinate .... worry .... feel anxious ... do some of the work ... get stuck .... get distracted .... wonder if I should ask for help... and risk looking stupid ..... struggle to find the next step .... get random thoughts about whether I'd locked the front door at home, before leaving .... go for a coffee break .... work some more .... make mistakes ... think angry thoughts about why my boss assigned this piece of work to me ... work some more .... struggle to find the solution. In the "no-thought" state, it is very different. There is no fear, no anxiety, no worry. Instead there is a formidable degree of control over my thoughts. I would decide, "Now I shall focus on getting this piece of work done." The concentration that follows is very impressive. The focus on my thought sits squarely on the subject matter - the work itself. There is full attention to what needs to be done. There is full presence in the moment. There is no fear, worry or anxiety that I can't do the job. There is absolutely no ROOM for fear, worry or anxiety, because full mental concentration is placed on the work itself. All the ideas, solutions and correct next steps come effortlessly. Around me, colleagues are talking, people come in and out, but my concentration is unbroken, full and ... effortless. And suddenly the entire piece of work is done, in record time. And you even enjoyed it. There was great happiness in the work. This is what I think you don't understand, Cantando. You have to experience it, to really know what it is. If you knew what it is, you would not say, "It would be impossible to live a normal life if one was continuously in that state." |
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| All of us have experienced, from time to time, what it is like to be fully in the now. For some of us, it would have happened: 1. in the midst of passionate sex; 2. while riding on a wild, crazy roller coaster ride; 3. playing a sport, eg a competitive soccer match, when you're doing your best and fully engaged 4. deep absorption in an activity you enjoy a lot (it could be, say, playing the piano; painting a picture; singing a song onstage live on 'American Idol') 5. performing some activity that demanded your full attention - eg giving a public speech; performing heart surgery; taking a penalty kick in a soccer game; Somewhere in his book, Tolle gives the example of a cat waiting near a mousehole, with rapt attention, waiting for a mouse to emerge, waiting to pounce on it. What Tolle is talking about is taking that kind of mental state and making it our default mental state. To be like that, fully present in the moment, whatever you are doing and wherever you are. |
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| Everyone - HOLD ON!!! The context of Tolle mentioning the washing dishes: he and Oprah were discussing this one guy, Nick, who had given Tolle a question 2 weeks earlier. Nick is a young guy in L.A., who was frustrated because he had bills to pay, and had to hold a day job. But Nick wants to be a rock star. |
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| Oops, I posted too early. Anyways, it's too complicated to totally get into everything now...but there is a difference between "great artist" as an ego role...and "great artist" as a way of Being. So far Cantando, you're talking about great artist the ego role. Tolle is talking great artist as a way of Being. They are TOTALLY different. |
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Have you ever been experienced? Not necessarily stoned, but beautiful..." Quote:
About Guernica: From the beginning, Picasso chooses not to represent the horror of Guernica in realist or romantic terms. Key figures — a woman with outstretched arms, a bull, an agonized horse — are refined in sketch after sketch, then transferred to the capacious canvas, which he also reworks several times. "A painting is not thought out and settled in advance," said Picasso. "While it is being done, it changes as one's thoughts change. And when it's finished, it goes on changing, according to the state of mind of whoever is looking at it." |
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It is a wonderful experience, though to be honest, I remember very little of it upon returning to mundane reality. However, you can't go about your everyday life continuously in this state. Every time you turn a corner, you are hit with something new, which generates new thoughts. If they are arising from your subconscious, you can observe them, but you cannot stop them. If something knocks you on the head, can you avoid thinking about it? Can you say, 'I'm not going to permit any thought about this'. That in itself is a thought. You can't control all your thoughts all the time. You seem to have shifted from your original position of: "Control your mind completely; Think nothing except what you consciously choose to think about; Do not ever permit any irrelevant, random or stray thoughts to arise" to "Instead there is a formidable degree of control over my thoughts." |
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The point is - great artists have a spark of genius in them. If you don't already have that in you, no amount of visualizing or trying to be one, is going to make you great. You talk about a great artist as a way of Being. What exactly do you mean? Can you 'be' a great artist without producing any works? If a famous guru is broadcasting to the world and is supposedly telling the truth, then anything he says should hold up under scrutiny. Do you believe every word he says is the truth? |
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I spent the summer of 1976 living on a campsite in Amsterdam where there was an abundance of various organic and inorganic compounds. I supported myself playing guitar outside the bars and cafes on Damrak. What were you doing? |
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