Can You Convert Me To I.m. ???

[Stephen]

I dont think it would to much of a understatement to say that I am pretty skeptical about the whole Intention Manifestation thing.

However, I have an open mind and I have noticed a couple of regulars on this site who I respect from their other posts who are solid adherents of I.M.

What I have a problem with is calling something a result of I.M. when it has been clearly just as a result of the person taking action.


Example: I focus on wanting to see a 25% increase in sales this month. I focus and take action to make it happen. It happens. This is a result of the actions I took; not as a result of some ethereal phenomena.

Now, if as I believe many of you think, I.M. is acheiveable without physical action, then let me give you a real life situation which I cannot physically alter, but yet I would like to see manifested.

- I hold 100 individually serialed UK government bonds (prize bonds): and have done so for the past decade. Each month there is a prize draw and prizes are won from 1m down to 50 pounds sterling. I have held these bonds as I have said for over a decade without a single win. I cannot influence physically the situation to increase the chances of these 100 bonds winning a prize.

If I.M. is genuine, then I should be able to use it to generate a win. If not, then my theory is correct that I.M. means nothing. It is simply taking action that makes the difference.

I would like to hear your thoughts on the above.

Can I IM a win?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I would like to hear your thoughts on the above.

Sure. Firstly, you have mixed up two separate matters:

1. What is possible for the human mind; and
2. What is possible for your human mind.

A simple example to illustrate. Could you mentally calculate the 13th root of a random 200-digit number, under 73 seconds? Probably not.

However, at least one human being can do it. And apparently there are quite a number of other talented mathematicians who can perform the lesser feat of mentally calculating the 13th root of a random 100-digit number.

Now, the fact that you cannot mentally calculate the 13th root of a random 100-digit or 200-digit number clearly does not mean that the human mind is inherently incapable of doing so.

Similarly the fact that you cannot manifest XYZ does not mean that the human mind is inherently incapable of manifesting XYZ. Therefore this argument of yours:

If I.M. is genuine, then I should be able to use it to generate a win. If not, then my theory is correct that I.M. means nothing.

.... is logically flawed.

Now, as I am quite fond of saying, conscious creation is a skill. Some of us are better at it, and some of us are worse at it, and some of us may be better or worse at it in specific areas. But all of us can get better at it with practice. That is all.

Remember - your thoughts create your reality. But you do not have perfect control over your thoughts - far from it. Therefore you do not have perfect control over your reality - far from it.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Sure. Firstly, you have mixed up two separate matters:

1. What is possible for the human mind; and
2. What is possible for your human mind.

A simple example to illustrate. Could you mentally calculate the 13th root of a random 200-digit number, under 73 seconds? Probably not.

However, at least one human being can do it. And apparently there are quite a number of other talented mathematicians who can perform the lesser feat of mentally calculating the 13th root of a random 100-digit number.

Now, the fact that you cannot mentally calculate the 13th root of a random 100-digit or 200-digit number clearly does not mean that the human mind is inherently incapable of doing so.

Similarly the fact that you cannot manifest XYZ does not mean that the human mind is inherently incapable of manifesting XYZ. Therefore this argument of yours:



.... is logically flawed.

Now, as I am quite fond of saying, conscious creation is a skill. Some of us are better at it, and some of us are worse at it, and some of us may be better or worse at it in specific areas. But all of us can get better at it with practice. That is all.

Remember - your thoughts create your reality. But you do not have perfect control over your thoughts - far from it. Therefore you do not have perfect control over your reality - far from it.

Oh Please!

Are you saying that someone who has better brain power (e.g. the type of person who can achieve fantastic mathematical sums in their head) can manifest one of my prize bonds to win?

Oh come one.

Is that it? Is that the best response in defence of IM there is?

Thanks for taking the time to reply. But I think I smell a red herring.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Are you saying that someone who has better brain power (e.g. the type of person who can achieve fantastic mathematical sums in their head) can manifest one of my prize bonds to win?

No, of course not.

I am saying that people have different mental abilities. For example, perhaps I can solve crossword puzzles better than you. Perhaps you can understand graphs better than me. Perhaps I have a much better memory. Perhaps you are more creative.

Therefore the fact that you cannot do something mentally, does not mean that the thing inherently cannot be done. For example, other people coud be able to do it.

Therefore the fact that you cannot manifest a bond prize does not prove that a bond prize cannot be manifested, or that LOA is false.

At best, the fact that you cannot manifest a bond prize merely proves that you cannot manifest a bond prize.

Similarly the fact that you cannot do telekinesis, or telepathy, or read a map, or understand my earlier post, does not prove that telekinesis cannot be done, or that telepathy cannot be done, or that maps cannot be read, or that my earlier post cannot be understood.

At best, it proves that you cannot do telekinesis, or do telepathy, or read a map, or understand my earlier post.

------

In case you still do not understand, let me give you an illustration of what you are saying.

Suppose we disagree on whether it is possible for a human being to run the 100 metres under 9 seconds. I say that it is possible. You say that it is not possible.

You, Stephen, then step on the track and run as fast as you can, for 100 metres. Since you are not a very good runner at all, you take much longer than 9 seconds to finish the distance.

You then say to me, "Aha, I took 20 seconds to do it! This proves that it is not possible for human beings to run the 100 metres under 9 seconds."

This is illogical. However, this illogical argument has the exact same structure as your bond prize example.

-----

In Philosophy 101 terms, we could describe your argument as follows:

1. If X is true, then Y is possible.
2. I seek to do Y.
3. I fail to do Y.
4. Conclusion --> Therefore X is false.

The above conclusion is logically flawed, because the fact that you failed to do Y does not mean that Y is inherently impossible. Your failure to do Y proves nothing except that you failed to do Y.

I cannot climb Mount Everest. This does not mean that Mount Everest cannot be climbed.

I trust I have provided enough examples for you to see why your earlier reasoning is unsound.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

No, of course not.

I am saying that people have different mental abilities. For example, perhaps I can solve crossword puzzles better than you. Perhaps you can understand graphs better than me. Perhaps I have a much better memory. Perhaps you are more creative.

Therefore the fact that you cannot do something mentally, does not mean that the thing inherently cannot be done. For example, other people coud be able to do it.

Therefore the fact that you cannot manifest a bond prize does not prove that a bond prize cannot be manifested, or that LOA is false.

At best, the fact that you cannot manifest a bond prize merely proves that you cannot manifest a bond prize.

Similarly the fact that you cannot do telekinesis, or telepathy, or read a map, or understand my earlier post, does not prove that telekinesis cannot be done, or that telepathy cannot be done, or that maps cannot be read, or that my earlier post cannot be understood.

At best, it proves that you cannot do telekinesis, or do telepathy, or read a map, or understand my earlier post.

------

In case you still do not understand, let me give you an illustration of what you are saying.

Suppose we disagree on whether it is possible for a human being to run the 100 metres under 9 seconds. I say that it is possible. You say that it is not possible.

You, Stephen, then step on the track and run as fast as you can, for 100 metres. Since you are not a very good runner at all, you take much longer than 9 seconds to finish the distance.

You then say to me, "Aha, I took 20 seconds to do it! This proves that it is not possible for human beings to run the 100 metres under 9 seconds."

This is illogical. However, this illogical argument has the exact same structure as your bond prize example.

-----

In Philosophy 101 terms, we could describe your argument as follows:

1. If X is true, then Y is possible.
2. I seek to do Y.
3. I fail to do Y.
4. Conclusion --> Therefore X is false.

The above conclusion is logically flawed, because the fact that you failed to do Y does not mean that Y is inherently impossible. Your failure to do Y proves nothing except that you failed to do Y.

I cannot climb Mount Everest. This does not mean that Mount Everest cannot be climbed.

I trust I have provided enough examples for you to see why your earlier reasoning is unsound.

LMFAO - Listen friend. I graduated a couple of years ago with a Honours degree in Philosophy.

What you have provoded is complete fluff.

You are saying that because it cannot be disproved that some person can manifest one of my prize bonds to win, then it means that IM is real.

Complete codswhollop.

It's just as easy for me to say that the there are 14 planets rotating aound our sun in our solar sytem. They are invisible to the human eye and human equipment and neutrally dense and do not exhibit gravitional pull as they lie beyond our comprehension on physics.

Prove me wrong?

And so IM.

[jeff3]

If IM is a mental ability that is filtered through your belief system, which is what I propose, then your dis-belief would render you ineffective. This is not because your dis-belief prevents it from working, but instead your dis-belief is actually a belief that it won't work so you successfully use IM to prove you are right, that IM doesn't work. The irony is that when you can prove it works, you won't need proof.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Stephen

What you have provoded is complete fluff.

You are saying that because it cannot be disproved that some person can manifest one of my prize bonds to win, then it means that IM is real..

LOL, no, I didn't say that. You did. I was merely commenting on the " test" that you (not me) proposed, with regard to testing LOA.

And I have sought to explain to you that your test (not mine) is logically flawed.

In this thread, I myself have not (yet) suggested or proposed any kind of "test" for LOA. (Although this is certainly a topic I have previously addressed in considerable detail, in other older threads).

[Niki]

I agree wirh 'Acting_like_Godot" on this one.
And @ Stephen. It's not important that you graduated a couple of years ago with a Honours degree in Philosophy, it's important that you get it. I'm not saying you should believe anything everybody says, but the argument Godot brings up is valid. And instead of trying to disprove IM so badly, you could do the opposite and attract more wealth or whatever you need in your life, because I think you need it.

And about your planets, well I believe what you are saying is not correct, I cannot prove you wrong, but that's not the point, because real approval comes from the inside. If it serves you well, believing that those planets exists, be my guest, but I doubt you will carry some benefits. With IM it is different. it's not believing it vs not believing it". It is getting it vs not getting it. The law of attraction is always working, whether you believe it or not. And the only way to prove that to yourself is to read about it, think about it, and last but not least, using it. That's the only way. I cannot prove to you that IM is working or not working, because you can tell me, "hey that's not IM".

[Stephen]

I would have more respect and perhaps more interest in IM if someone said.....

"Listen mate, I've no idea how or why it works, but it does!'

Saying that because I cant manifest something (like willing my prize bonds to win) but perhaps someone else with more brain power/intelligence can(will my prize bonds to pay out) is a major cop out/non answer.

It it also easy to say....because you dont believe in it.....it wont work. Oh brother!

So if you believe in your ability to IM my prize bonds to pay out....they will?

Please tell me there is more substance to this IM thingy?

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Niki

The law of attraction is always working, whether you believe it or not.

Really? What exactly is The law of attraction?

It is always working? How so?

Really, I'm interested. I am ready to be converted.

[Trezker]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Really, I'm interested. I am ready to be converted.

I think it is quite clear that that you are not at all ready.
There's only two ways to be converted.

#1: Faith, just stop being negative about it. Accept it and strive to understand it better without any argument against it.

#2: Subjective proof. You yourself successfully use IM in a way that converts you.

I don't see any other way of conversion. It's impossible to be converted by other people. As long as you're asking others for help, you're not ready.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Saying that because I cant manifest something (like willing my prize bonds to win) but perhaps someone else with more brain power/intelligence can(will my prize bonds to pay out) is a major cop out/non answer.

You still don't get it, do you?

Let me put it this way. Suppose you do not know algebra. Therefore you cannot solve algebraic equations. Then you learn algebra. After that, you can solve algebraic equations.

Now suppose you do not know how to do IM. Therefore you cannot do IM. Then you learn IM. After that, you can do IM.

There. See?

Conscious creation is a skill. Furthermore it's a skill with numerous different levels. By way of analogy, it is like playing a piano. There are non-pianists, beginner pianists, intermediate pianists, advanced pianists, professional pianists and world-class pianists.

Currently you are a non-pianist. And your complaint is, "I can't play world-class piano music. Therefore pianos don't exist."

So if you believe in your ability to IM my prize bonds to pay out....they will?

If you understand the principles of LOA, the correct answer is - "Yes, I would be able to IM your prize bonds to pay out."

The point is moot, because I don't believe I have the ability to do that. My skills are not that advanced, and besides I can't see any good reason to do such a thing for you.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Really, I'm interested. I am ready to be converted.

I don't think you're ready.

There was another guy, skeptical like you. His name was 3nigma. After he debated endlessly with other people on this forum, I said: "Well, instead of all this talk, would you like to just do an experiment for yourself? And I will guide you through it?"

I assured him that it would be an eminently practical, sensible experiment - nothing like your suggested experiment of proving the existence of 14 invisible planets rotating around the sun.

Instead my experiment would require no special equipment, and only a small amount of time per day.

3nigma said, "Yes, I want to do this experiment." He did the very 1st part of the experiment - which was just to write down a description of his current reality (so that we can see how much it would have changed, by the end of the experiment).

We then moved on to the very 1st exercise in the experiment. "Do this", I said, and set out the instructions.

Immediately 3nigma dropped out. He ran away. He hasn't been seen around these forums since then.

There was nothing onerous or frightening or difficult about the exercise I set. I've set more since then. There are at least 10 other people on this forum who are still participating in this experiment.

The LOA Experiment (DIY)

But 3nigma dropped out. He just wasn't ready.

I don't think you're ready either.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

If you understand the principles of LOA, the correct answer is - "Yes, I would be able to IM your prize bonds to pay out."

The point is moot, because I don't believe I have the ability to do that. My skills are not that advanced, and besides I can't see any good reason to do such a thing for you.

LOL Say no more.

Someone can will my prize bonds to pay out, given that they have the advanced skills? LOL LOL Say no more.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I don't think you're ready.

There was another guy, skeptical like you. His name was 3nigma. After he debated endlessly with other people on this forum, I said: "Well, instead of all this talk, would you like to just do an experiment for yourself? And I will guide you through it?"

I assured him that it would be an eminently practical, sensible experiment - nothing like your suggested experiment of proving the existence of 14 invisible planets rotating around the sun.

Instead my experiment would require no special equipment, and only a small amount of time per day.

3nigma said, "Yes, I want to do this experiment." He did the very 1st part of the experiment - which was just to write down a description of his current reality (so that we can see how much it would have changed, by the end of the experiment).

We then moved on to the very 1st exercise in the experiment. "Do this", I said, and set out the instructions.

Immediately 3nigma dropped out. He ran away. He hasn't been seen around these forums since then.

There was nothing onerous or frightening or difficult about the exercise I set. I've set more since then. There are at least 10 other people on this forum who are still participating in this experiment.

The LOA Experiment (DIY)

But 3nigma dropped out. He just wasn't ready.

I don't think you're ready either.

Your evasiveness is spectacular.

I have already told you a concrete example of what I want to manifest. You did read the thread OP didnt you?

So show me how to manifest my prize bonds to pay out. I have them here in my hand. Forget the 14 planets. Show me how to IM the prize bonds so that they pay out.

I am ready, I want the money.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Someone can will my prize bonds to pay out, given that they have the advanced skills? LOL LOL Say no more.

Yes, IF such a person existed.

It wouldn't be a particularly impressive miracle either. For example, it pales in comparison to miracles purportedly performed by Jesus.

By the way, Jesse Livermore, by most definitions one of the world's greatest investors who ever lived, himself claimed to have psychic powers.

He made his fortune in 1907, when he "irrationally" shorted Union Pacific (a railway company) with his life savings, even though the stock market was rising, and Union Pacific was doing very well.

A massive earthquake then occurred, the railway system was totally smashed, Union Pacific's shares crashed, and Livermore made a huge amount of money.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Yes, IF such a person existed.

It wouldn't be a particularly impressive miracle either. For example, it pales in comparison to miracles purportedly performed by Jesus.

By the way, Jesse Livermore, by most definitions one of the world's greatest investors who ever lived, himself claimed to have psychic powers.

He made his fortune in 1907, when he "irrationally" shorted Union Pacific (a railway company) with his life savings, even though the stock market was rising, and Union Pacific was doing very well.

A massive earthquake then occurred, the railway system was totally smashed, Union Pacific's shares crashed, and Livermore made a huge amount of money.

Again, can I ask you to show me how to manifest a win on my prize bonds? No? I thought so.

You mentioned Jesus there. Has this got anything to do with religion? Please tell me it hasnt. Please tell me that this IM has substance.

Can anyone show me how to manifest my prize bond win? No?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Your evasiveness is spectacular.

Really?

So show me how to manifest my prize bonds to pay out. I have them here in my hand. Forget the 14 planets. Show me how to IM the prize bonds so that they pay out.

I am ready, I want the money.

Okay. The first thing you must do is really understand the theory of the LOA. See, a lot of people watch "The Secret", read one or two books, and believe that they know what the LOA is all about.

No! LOA is a lot more complex than that. To build an adequate theoretical understanding, you need to understand LOA a lot better first. As a start, I would recommend reading at least six or seven books from the list shown below. These books present the topic, from different perspectives, and if you put them together as a whole, you get a much better idea of what LOA is all about.

1. Ask, and It is Given; Hicks (metaphysical perspective)
2. The Intention Experiment; MacTaggart (general scientific perspective)
3. What the Bleep Do We Know, Wolf (quantum physics perspective)
4. Hidden Depths, Waterfield (history and theory of hypnosis)
5. The Master Key System, Haanel (a "how-to" perspective)
6. Instant Magick, Penczak (an occult perspective)
7. The Book of Secrets, Osho (Indian spiritual perspective)
8. Zero Limits, Vitale (Hawaiian spiritual perspective)
9. The Essential Dalai Lama (Buddhist perspective, just look at chapters concerning mind and reality)
10. Silva Mind Control Method, Silva (parapsychological perspective)
11. The Emperor's New Mind, Penrose (physics & neuroscience)

After you finish reading the books, you can start practising how to alter your beliefs. (This definitely takes considerable practice, and is an extremely helpful skill to learn, whether you believe in the "magical" aspects of LOA or not).

Before you start manifesting lottery wins, I suggest you spend time working on goals like doubling your annual income, quadrupling your bonuses, manifesting small windfalls out of nowhere etc. When you gain successes in such activities, it will become easier to manifest your prize bond successes.