Subjective Reality?

[Markus74]

Can somebody please tell me what's possible to manifest in your subjective reality and what isn't? Otherwise I might get frustrated if I don't see the expected results ... ? Thanks.

[Acting Like Godot]

Whatever you truly believe, you can manifest.

This is very important. Skeptics will say - if IM theory is true, and I believe in the flying ketchup monster, surely I can manifest it? But the point is that they are not actually able to make themselves believe in the flying ketchup monster. Therefore the flying ketchup monster will not manifest.

You might find this helpful:

Acting Like Godot: An Excerpt from Jose Silva

[Markus74]

So if I just believed that I could grow wings and fly then I would indeed be able to fly?

[Acting Like Godot]

Yup. If you could truly believe it.

Once you master that, I suggest you try some other cool tricks, like walking on water or raising the dead. At least one dude in history has done it.

What? I hear you scoff?

Oh ye of little faith.

[Markus74]

No, but seriously: Let's say I want to manifest money. Do I just need to think about it and be convinced that it will manifest, or do I have to actually work to get to a certain goal/job/point that allows me to make money?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Markus74

No, but seriously: Let's say I want to manifest money. Do I just need to think about it and be convinced that it will manifest, or do I have to actually work to get to a certain goal/job/point that allows me to make money?

Well, remember that actual physical action is a method through which manifestation can occur. If you choose not to pursue certain actions in your career path that could help in manifesting money and simply want it to come to you without physical effort then that is one venue that you're preventing money from manifesting from. Can you manifest money without physically doing anything and instead just consciously focusing your thoughts/intentions? Try and see.

[Brutha]

Originally Posted by Markus74

No, but seriously: Let's say I want to manifest money. Do I just need to think about it and be convinced that it will manifest, or do I have to actually work to get to a certain goal/job/point that allows me to make money?

People are working all the time. It is impossible to do nothing.

[Markus74]

But this manifesting thing is often sold as: you can sit in your rocking chair and only have to manifest a check in the mailbox and, voilà!, it arrives in the mailbox.

It can't be that easy, or can it?

And as for manifesting anything if only you believe it enough is a rather unproven, if not completely bogus, theory. It's obviously one of those theories that cannot be proven wrong (like a lot of religion claims), but that doesn't make them true though.

Since it's the one who claims that something exists or works who has to come up with the proof. Not the other way round. It's impossible, for example, to prove that there are no invisible unicorns on Mars.

So while I agree that positive thinking and intentions are great to cope with life and to get things done and that they are necessary if one really wants to do something, I completely disagree with this 'subjective reality' premise that EVERYTHING is possible if you only believe it. I've not seen or heard of one event that would really backup that claim.

[Frans]

Originally Posted by Markus74

So while I agree that positive thinking and intentions are great to cope with life and to get things done and that they are necessary if one really wants to do something, I completely disagree with this 'subjective reality' premise that EVERYTHING is possible if you only believe it.

I think you're mixing up subjective reality with the Law of Attraction.
These are two different concepts.

[Markus74]

Oh, ok. So both are not intertwined?

What's the difference then? When is the one to be used and when the other? Do both work equally good?

[wolfgang]

I've been thinking that the manifestation happens in the objective/ego/seperative illusionary physical world of our senses. The LoA operates in the subjective/all is one/nirvana universe/world. At least that's how I've been putting LoA and "reality" ideas into relationship.

As far as what you can manifest in this illusionary objective world? I'm no expert in LoA, but the less beliefs you have holding you back the easier it is to manifest or notice how the universe responds to your thoughts/words/feelings/vibe. It seems that taken to the extreme - if you could be so completely enlightened - objective reality could morph for you like crazy. But to be completely enlightened is quite a state that you can't strive for because that striving causes you to not be able to get into that state (some paradox thing). I must believe at some level pretty strongly in this physical (illusionary) world for it to stay the same for the most part - I don't know why I might belive this but if I didn't perhaps it would be really confusing/disoreinting to have the objective world be as flexible as, say a lucid dream.

"Reality is an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." - Einstein.

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

I must believe at some level pretty strongly in this physical (illusionary) world for it to stay the same for the most part - I don't know why I might belive this but if I didn't perhaps it would be really confusing/disoreinting to have the objective world be as flexible as, say a lucid dream.

Or maybe it's simply because some things cannot be changed!

It seems dubious to me that the LoA is exclusively present in situations that also can be explained rationally.

"Reality is an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." - Einstein.

Which does not mean that Einstein believed in the LoA or Subjective Reality

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Markus74

Which does not mean that Einstein believed in the LoA or Subjective Reality

Actually (I think) a lot of Einstein's work was fall out of his quest for evidence of subjective reality but he called it the unified field theory. His theory of relativity presents a model that begins to tie what we sense/detect/measure/quantify in the physical world all together. And what he and other deep physicists started to notice was that to observe physical reality was tricky because you can't completly remove the observer. Doesn't that sound like subjective reality? That we actually are intwined with what we observe?

I included that quote since this thread is discussing what is possible to manifest with LoA. Now - that could also be this question: how real is the physical universe? So the quote is, to me, an expression of how the physical universe is an illusion of some kind that persists by our attachment to being separate (ego/objective world). That kind of thinking (nirvana, heaven on earth, power of now...) has been in spiritual writings as well. I'm not saying belive in this, just that these thinkers have been there and thought these things.

"Some things can't be changed" - yeah, well, like I got a certain set of genes to run with that gives me blue eyes. It's all most like this physical world has some kind of momentum that keeps it stable even if, at the level the physicists can try to observe, everything looks like either a particle or a wave and both too - so what is all this coming into out senses anyway? Clumps of vibrating energy that are arranged to have a lasting illusion we can touch/look at? It's all pretty in impracticable, these thoughts.


"It seems dubious to me that the LoA is exclusively present in situations that also can be explained rationally."
Not following this. Situations that can be explained rationally? Is there a way to explian things irrationally? Not sure what the idea was here.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Markus74

No, but seriously:

I was serious. Either you believe that Jesus performed miracles, or you believe that he did not. If you believe that he did, how do you think he did it? He probably didn't do it accidentally or while asleep or unintentionally.

Ahhhh ... what does that mean? He had an intention. It's all back to IM again.

Originally Posted by Markus74

Let's say I want to manifest money. Do I just need to think about it and be convinced that it will manifest, or do I have to actually work to get to a certain goal/job/point that allows me to make money?

Let me explain. Your thoughts affect reality. However, your physical body is also part of reality.

Suppose you want a cup of coffee. You think to yourself, "Hmmm, I really feel like having a cup of coffee now." That's an intention. If it is strong enough, reality should alter, such that you receive a cup of coffee.

You now have two possible courses of action. Firstly, you could move your ass, go to the kitchen, and fix yourself a cup of coffee. There - your intention has manifested. I believe that there are millions of people around the world whose intention to drink coffee manifest into reality in this way, every morning.

Secondly, you could sit right where you are, refusing to move. You could keep thinking to yourself, "I want coffee. I want coffee. A cup of coffee is right before me now."

If you choose the 2nd course of action, what may happen is that after some time, your mother may come in and say, "Are you ok, dear? You look a bit strange." Because coffee is on your mind, you'll say, "Mum, I want a cup of coffee." Your mother might reply, "Okay, dear, I'll get it for you now, but you're really looking strange." Anyway she comes back shortly with a cup of coffee. There - your intention has manifested.

Or maybe your mother isn't home. You keep sitting there thinking ""I want coffee. I want coffee. A cup of coffee is right before me now." Well, chances are, a cup of coffee isn't going to manifest - because your intention is too weak. After all, if your intention was strong enough, if you really, really wanted a cup of coffee -

you would just move your ass, go to the kitchen, and fix yourself a cup of coffee.

Then a cup of coffee would really have manifested into your reality. And bear in mind, the movement of your ass into the kitchen, the movement of your hands towards the coffee can, towards the coffee mug, towards the kettle - all that is part of reality.

(By the way, there is this guy in India, "Said Baba" - some call him a holy man, others call him a cult leader, others call him a conman - but basically he's been known to manifest objects out of thin air. He has devotees and followers from all over the world. Anyway, I digress).

=========

Let me now turn to your specific query:

Originally Posted by Markus74

Let's say I want to manifest money. Do I just need to think about it and be convinced that it will manifest, or do I have to actually work to get to a certain goal/job/point that allows me to make money?

Let me analyse your possible true intentions.

Let's say that your true intention is that you wish to earn money without actually having to work for it.

This is entirely possible. In fact, there are millions of people around the world who are like that. For example, some of them may own a couple of properties and they just collect rent every month. You'll see that this state of affairs didn't come about randomly either. At some point in time, they must have intended to buy a property, and they must have intended to rent it out. And their intentions must have manifested.

What you see though is that the manifestation of intention into reality takes time. (For instance, it may take years before you have enough money to invest in property). How much time it takes for an intention to manifest depends on what you're trying to manifest and how good you are at doing it. (For example, making a cup of coffee in the kitchen normally takes the average person about one minute if he's going for 3-in-1 instant packet coffee).

Back to money. Actually I know what your true intention is. Your true intention right now is not to manifest money without working. Your true intention is to find out whether LOA really works. You want to run a couple of experiments to test it.

Your difficulty is that you're skeptical. Well, you already know the IM theory. If you're skeptical, you block your own intentions, whether you're trying to manifest a cup of coffee, or free money, or proof of IM. That's your challenge.

[Jill]

Great post, Acting Like Godot!

In other words, if you intend to make money...then get off your ass and make some.

Brilliant!

And exactly how it works.

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by Markus74

Can somebody please tell me what's possible to manifest in your subjective reality and what isn't? Otherwise I might get frustrated if I don't see the expected results ... ? Thanks.

No, I don't believe all that if you believe it's possible, then is possible...
You know, some people think they are Napoleon, Julius Caesar and even Superman... (and they don't fly...)...
All I know is that Universe needs time to "rearrange" itself once you make an intention.
Well, history show us that we don't know what is possible and what is not.
I think that everything is possible, but many things need many time to come true.

[Acting Like Godot]

Sometimes the word "belief" is loosely used, when we talk about IM.

It goes beyond belief. It's more like belief + expect, and to make it happen, you need to inject some emotion into it.

You must hold that "expect" feeling. You must hold that kind of mental attutude that you would be surprised if the intention you manifested did NOT turn into reality.

If you use a Biblical analogy, you need to have faith. Moses parts the Red Sea. When he wants to part the Red Sea, he has to totally expect God to do it (that's called faith).

"Expect" is like a very strong form of belief.

[Markus74]

@acting:

* I don't believe Jesus did any 'real' miracles. Maybe he healed some like other healer seem to do as well today. But I'm convinced he didn't go on water, raise the dead and the like.

* Your example of the mother coming in and asking you if you want coffee doesn't prove anything. It's still a coincidence unless such the probability of such an event becomes higher than usual. If you're wishing for coffee once and your mother comes in to bring you coffee I'd say: lucky coincidence. You would have to repeat that a few times, a hundred times. If you then get your coffee in over 20, 30, 50 or whatever percent of situations without moving your ass, then I would say that this becomes interesting and needs further analysis. But surprisingly it doesn't happen like that ...

* If Said Baba can manifest objects out of thin air then he should let people film him. If he's not a con man, he's got nothing to be afraid of.

* You said: "This is entirely possible. In fact, there are millions of people around the world who are like that. For example, some of them may own a couple of properties and they just collect rent every month. You'll see that this state of affairs didn't come about randomly either. At some point in time, they must have intended to buy a property, and they must have intended to rent it out. And their intentions must have manifested."

But where did they get their original properties from if they had no money? Did they just fell out of the sky?

* You said: "What you see though is that the manifestation of intention into reality takes time."

LOL, of course. Because actually working takes time. So where's the benefit of the LoA? If you work clever you make money. No magic about that.

* You said: "Your difficulty is that you're skeptical. Well, you already know the IM theory. If you're skeptical, you block your own intentions, whether you're trying to manifest a cup of coffee, or free money, or proof of IM. That's your challenge."

Sure. The unproven, and unprovable, theory cannot fail! It's always the user

@jill:

* You said: "In other words, if you intend to make money...then get off your ass and make some."

I agree. But you need not to invoke that magic LoA. It doesn't help you more than general positive thinking. No magic involved. Only motivation.

@songwriter:

* You said: "All I know is that Universe needs time to "rearrange" itself once you make an intention."

How do you know that? And how would the Universe 'rearrange' itself if two people have contradictory intentions?

[Markus74]

If I'm the only consciousness that exists then how comes that I'm not very good in math and yet I see rockets flying into space? How could I have created the concepts of rockets if I don't have a clue about them?

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Markus74

If I'm the only consciousness that exists then how comes that I'm not very good in math and yet I see rockets flying into space? How could I have created the concepts of rockets if I don't have a clue about them?

I think a lot of the confusion is trying look at what subjective reality means while using the ego based seperative objective language. At least what subjective reality is being described as in stevepavlina.com - as there is only one consciousness. The thing is, to be present with that one consciousness is so far from our normal waking state and language and thoughts that when one says "I don't know math - how could I have created rockets?" - is all language of the ego based seperative 'normal' (illusionary) objective world. The speck of consciousness we operate with doesn't really know the one concsiousness as knowledge and experiences that can be shared - that is stuck in the objective/seperative world illusion view.

To fathom being one with all that is, is probably not something our minds and thoughts can do. It's an experience to feel at times or tune into as an aura while kicking around as an ego. The power of now, being in the flow, Christ consciousness, heaven on earth, nirvana can touch it. And how many individuals get there - it's enlightenment, man. Trying to explain the Tao with these words will fail. "The Tao that can be named is not the Tao" - from the Tao de Ching.

I've been able to barely sustain states that expand my consciousness to the point that there are no boundaries and loose the sense of ego illusion. But that's where the culmination of subjective reality can be experienced. In thoses moments that seem timeless and 'things' are perfectly unfolding into existance to be in awe that there's a way to perceive any of it. And it does feel like all is one - but it's not that I (eog) is everything that is. The one consciousness of everything together is not an I. I've felt it in times when I was focused in the now and had no thoughts of yesterday/tomorrow or pretty much actually no thought, just being. That state can have awareness of the mind, but is not the mind. The watcher that is behind everyone's own subjective view of the illusion generated by what we've come to believe. I don't know why or what I believe a lot, but this physical reality is pretty tough to ditch.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Markus74

If I'm the only consciousness that exists then how comes that I'm not very good in math and yet I see rockets flying into space? How could I have created the concepts of rockets if I don't have a clue about them?

Have you ever had a dream in which there was a car? Well, when you looked at that car driving by on the street, were you aware of how a car works? Like if you dreamt of a Ferarri driving by, do you know the intricate details of all the car parts and how they interact together to make the Ferrari work? Most of us don't, yet we can still dream of a Ferrari. Most likely, if you could somehow click PAUSE on that dream and you ran over and popped the hood you would see that there was no engine in that car. How do you know that the rockets in your "waking" life are any more complicated then that? If you saw a rocket in person going up into the sky, isn't it just a metal tube going upwards into the sky? How hard is that for you to understand? Not very hard.