the lie of attraction

[bf1983]

I came across this today;

The Lie Of Attraction

It's easy to knock something but I have to confess that part of me is also starting to question this LOA material myself.

What do you think?

[Rick Abelson]

Interesting approach! Should do as well as the Law!

[ming]

I personally don't trust sites that ask for your email in order to send you 'freebies'. I bet at the end of the line they are trying to sell something.

[RT Wolf]

Googled it. Found what looks like the promised freebee here:

Lie Of Attraction Blog » Blog Archive » The Lie of Attraction Antidote

Not much in the way of actual argument there. That's not to say that I'm necessarily defending IM, just that the arguments used are not sound, and they do not offer any alternative...yet. If its anything like the other things like this I've seen, tehy've collected your email address, and will eventually email you either more freebees or hawk some product, probably connected to the mysterious letter people.

[ThoughtsMatter]

I just checked out the pdf that you found on Google and I really don't understand what it's getting at.

I just learned about LOA last year sometime when a friend told me about "The Secret", so I hope my post isn't too boring ;-).

I have written down my goals and I review them everyday and I also have my own gratitude rock to constantly remind me to be grateful for what I have.

I think because of this I'm happier now, I'm more aware of other people's feelings and I do seem to attract more of what I want.

Am I missing something here?

[bf1983]

>I just checked out the pdf that you found on Google and I really don't understand what it's getting at.

Well because I've been going over arguments in my own mind about whether the law of attraction is actually valid or not it spoke out to me and made me feel a bit better knowing I'm not alone in questioning it.

Put is this way - if it means this raises the whole discussion of LOA and its use to another level then I'm all for it. It just struck a nerve with me and the promise of more to come and the mysterious letter people drew me in.

[JKrump]

lol to my understanding actually, if you think it is a lie, then by the LAW OF ATTRACTION it will be.

[oberlee]

Horrible. Just horrible. No, I didn't read the whole thing, but it uses FEAR as a tactic and I don't trust anything that uses FEAR.

You can say the Law of Attraction is bs--but no one is going to tell you that to clarify your desires is bad. I mean, come on!

Besides, it's totally not BS. This is just hype trying to get some attention. Garbage. Throw it away.

[bf1983]

Krump,

That's just it though. This is one of the things they roll out of the woodwork. If the law of attraction really is a law then what you said doesn't make sense;

If I drop a brick on your head from 20 feet above but you don't believe in gravity someone's still going to have a lump on their head and it won't be me.

A law's existence doesn't depend on whether people believe it or not surely.

I might try this next time I get caught for breaking the speeding law;

"No officer, I will not accompany you to the cells, I do not believe in the speeding law."

Brian

[JKrump]

Brian, the Law of Attraction states, "Whatever you think about, you bring about". So if you think that the LoA doesn't work(which would make it a lie), then that will manifest in your reality. truth is, IT'S ALWAYS WORKING.

[bf1983]

JKrump,

Okay, I have heard this before too.

What I don't understand is why people die every day from famine, murder, starvation and worse - are you honestly saying that you believe they have attracted this. Because as you say - it is "always working".

Or is this just some pseudo-law made up by middle-class Westerners for middle-class Westerners?

Don't get me wrong - I want this thing to be as true as you do but I can't ignore some of the obvious holes in it.

Brian

[JKrump]

JKrump,

Okay, I have heard this before too.

What I don't understand is why people die every day from famine, murder, starvation and worse - are you honestly saying that you believe they have attracted this. Because as you say - it is "always working".

Or is this just some pseudo-law made up by middle-class Westerners for middle-class Westerners?

Don't get me wrong - I want this thing to be as true as you do but I can't ignore some of the obvious holes in it.

Brian



I think you need to read abotu Steve's blog about "Subjective Reality". He's basically saying since you're focusing on famine death, etc, that's all you manifest into your reality; you see people dying, suffering from famine and starvation etc.

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...of-attraction/

[cylon]

It's no different than taoism, that everything's connected, yin yang, good bad etc. That's not western or new age. I really don't see the difference between LOA and any other "spiritual" or tradition that's been around for thousands of years, only difference is it's 2008 and may be marketed differently.

The whole thing about attracting stuff that isn't good for you, it doesn't seem fair from the god outside perspective we're all used to. That we have a separate being watching over us and looking out for us. To take that next step that we are in fact god takes some adjustment. I'm still dealing with it.

Don't worry if they did or didn't attract it. Doesn't make a difference in your life. Even if they didn't realize their power they deserve compassion.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by JKrump

I think you need to read abotu Steve's blog about "Subjective Reality". He's basically saying since you're focusing on famine death, etc, that's all you manifest into your reality; you see people dying, suffering from famine and starvation etc.

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...of-attraction/

yeah this is kind of scary.

[bf1983]

>He's basically saying since you're focusing on famine death, etc, that's all you manifest into your reality; you see people dying, suffering from famine and starvation etc.

So I should just turn a blind eye to this and focus on daisies and sunshine?

What about the people themselves? A child dies in Africa every 3 seconds due to poverty - THAT is reality. Not my reality - their reality.

When it comes to the crunch who cares what I do or think. I, like you, am in the top 1% of wealthiest and most-fortunate humans on the planet.

It's the point blank refusal of the law of attraction advocates to address what is going on with the other 99% that bothers me. Now that IS scary.

>"In a lucid dream, you can do anything you believe you can. Physical reality >works the same way."

Woo-ometer anyone? People on drugs believe they can fly but the concrete says "No".

Brian

[cylon]

Originally Posted by bf1983

Woo-ometer anyone? People on drugs believe they can fly but the concrete says "No".

Brian

I present to you....uber thread!

[Acting Like Godot]

Cylon is quite right. If you read that thread, you will find your kind of questions discussed at great length.

Actually, if you know which books to read, you would see that all these questions have already been discussed and explained at considerable length.

Nevertheless, I can suggest to you, BF, a simpler way to approach this matter. And that is to simply learn the LOA by applying it in your daily life. Experiment, and watch the results unfold.

You do not need to study the principles of aerodynamics, in order to fly a kite. You do not need to know exactly how a car engine functions, in order to drive a car. And you do not need to reconcile in your mind all the apparently confusing or contradictory aspects of LOA, in order to use it.

The kite flies! The car moves! The LOA works!

(Btw, if your kite doesn't fly, it doesn't mean that the principles of aerodynamics are false. It means you don't know how to fly a kite).

[WealthyAndContent]

Interesting and thought provoking.

I went to the blog, submitted my name and email. I like what these guys or gals are doing. We all know hundreds who have invested a good amount of cash in LOA stuff and are doing the exact same thing they were doing five years ago.

Not taking sides, just saying I lawys enjoy hearing the other side.

Peace,

Phil

[TomSprewer]

Very interesting thread you have going on here.

Just visited lieofattraction.com, joined the site and got the 'Antidote'. (May sound cheesy but it's actually a good read and worth the time)

I've been studying and applying the law of attraction (LoA) for over 8 years now. In 2005, I decided to give it a full try and focus an entire year on it. That year, my wife left me, lost my job and had to move into a small apartment...

JKrump, you may say that I didn't 'think' about the positive enough. But you couldn't know of course. Fact is, I believed in it, and then it ate me alive so I'm having some issues giving it my whole hearted gratitude.

Acting like Godot: if I have a car accident tomorrow, or if someone gets run over by a truck, I don't really see where the 'law of attraction is always working'...

Anyway, I like the concept of the Lie of Attraction, feeling almost a bit excited to see what the 'other side' has to say about the whole matter.


My 2 cents.

-Tom

[Acting Like Godot]

Tom, you'll have to excuse me for not addressing your post in any real depth. This is my 1,459th post on Steve Pavlina's forums, and most of my posts have been on IM/LOA stuff. It gets repetitive and tedious for me to keep responding to the same kind of questions.

What I'll simply say to the "not-quite" believers is that you do not ever need to know all the answers, and you probably never will. You simply have to begin from exactly where you are.

And again and again, you will have to begin from exactly where you are.

For example, you may not accept that starving children in Africa attract their own circumstances. But perhaps you could agree with some less-grand, more-mundane proposition.

Such as "it is beneficial to learn to think more precisely". Or "it is useful to be clear about one's personal goals." Or "it is useless to worry about matters that one cannot actually do anything about". Or "I have a psychological addiction to _____ and it would be good to eliminate it." Or "If I treat people with more love, there will be more love in my life."

So begin there.

If you accept that it is beneficial to think more precisely, then work on developing your ability to think more precisely.

If you accept that it is useful to be clear about your personal goals, then work on clarifying your personal goals.

If you accept that it is useless to worry about matters that you cannot do anything about, then work on learning to stop worrying about things you cannot do anything about.

If you accept that it is good to be free of your addiction, then work on freeing yourself of your addiction.

If you accept that treating people with more love will lead to more love in your life, then work on treating people with more love.

Etc etc. In each case, it is about developing your control over your thinking, your own consciousness. Master one lesson, and the next lesson, a more advanced one, will present itself.

And then another ... and another .... and another.

Begin where you are. The difference between Buddha and the most dastardly human being on planet earth is that Buddha has mastered more lessons about the mind.

And over time, every diligent student of his own mind will see .... with ever-increasing clarity .... what his own thoughts have got to do with his own reality.

[RT Wolf]

Heh, ALG. Maybe you should just add a "skeptics go here" link to a bunch of links of threads in your sig. That might just attract more skeptics though.

[cylon]

Good post ALG, it reminds me to stay focused on what matters and not get too caught up with all the details. If we had to think and ponder and have a perfect answer for all of these "big" questions, that's all we would do, think, second guess, never progress.

We have to make peace with the fact that we will never know it all, but we will know more and more each day.

[Acting Like Godot]

1. First you will see that you can make a big change in your reality, by making a big change in your thinking.

2. Then you will see that you cannot make a big change in your reality, without making a big change in your thinking.

3. Next you will see that you cannot make a big change in your thinking, without making a big change in your reality.

4. After that, you will see that reality changes all the time, with your thought.

5. Then you will see that reality IS thought.

[Well, that is more or less where I currently am, so I can't tell you yet what comes next. Tune in again in six months' time]

[Akashic_Librarian]

Well I just read that PDF. Damn thats scary stuff that is...although they never explain the "Lie" properly, and they never explain the solution properly, in fact it sounds like a Zealous Christian Bible-Belt freak trying to plug Fundamentalism to Richard Dawkins...

I believe in the LoA and it would take more than a silly little, childish ploy to convert people to rigurous objectivism. Try again!

[bf1983]

>"This is my 1,459th post on Steve Pavlina's forums, and most of my posts have been on IM/LOA stuff. It gets repetitive and tedious for me to keep responding to the same kind of questions."

ALG: you must have attracted people like me into your life to make you question the law of attraction.

To me - the very fact that so much DEBATE going on here is proof that the law of attraction is NOT a law.

All proper, real laws can be understood, proven and applied across ALL situations universally and they are non-debatable or disputable (e.g. gravity)

I could create a law of rainmaking that says if you think about the rain intensely enough and for long enough and you believe it will rain, then it will.

But it wouldn't be a real law.

Yes - it would rain for some people right away. For others it will take some time. And for others (in dry countries, like Africa!) it would never work.

And we could all set up Forums to discuss how the law of rainmaking is real because it's worked for them. Or how it's not worked for some people because they don't believe in it.

It's always going to rain somewhere. You can cling onto the thought that it's your doing if you want.

I just think that any so-called "law" that requires this much debate and discussion and cannot be proven across the board is not a law - it is a theory at best.

And whilst positive thinking is a great thing it is just that - thinking.

Thanks to the recent popularity in LOA I think there are countless people probably sitting on their couches trying to 'manifest' Ferraris and what not but not getting anything and not improving themselves or the world because they're stuck in their heads.

Mental masturbation I think someone called it.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by bf1983

To me - the very fact that so much DEBATE going on here is proof that the law of attraction is NOT a law.

You see, you're missing the point. Or getting yourself tangled up in a rather insignificant one.

The "Law of Attraction" is just a commonly-used term to describe the phenomenon. You could just as well as use any of the other terms, for example:

"Higher Intelligence" (used, for example, by Jose Silva);
"Universal Intelligence" (used, for example, by Anaxagoras);
"prakamya siddhi" (used in Indian spiritual teachings);
"magick" (used, for example, by Aleister Crowley)
"superconscious mind" (used, for example, by Brian Tracy);
"Law of Intention and Attention" ((used, for example, by Deepak Chopra)
"hooponopono" (traditional Hawaiian term);
"the thinking stuff" (Wallace Wattles);
"Master Key System" (Charles Haanel);
"the Force" (Stuart Wilde)
"intention-manifestation" (Steve Pavlina)

And there are a bunch of other folks who explain and write about the phenomenon, without ever coining any specific term for it. I don't recall Jane Roberts/Seth, Napoleon Hill, Ramtha, Shakti Gawain etc, ever using the term "Law of Attraction". But certainly they had plenty to say about how thought creates reality; matter arises from thought; thoughts make your world; things must exist in mind before they appear in reality, etc etc.

It is just convenient to use the term "Law of Attraction" because it is the most commonly used term now.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by bf1983

Thanks to the recent popularity in LOA I think there are countless people probably sitting on their couches trying to 'manifest' Ferraris and what not but not getting anything and not improving themselves or the world because they're stuck in their heads.

You are always "stuck in your own head", my friend.

There is absolutely nothing you know or understand about your reality, which is not knowledge or understanding. That is, mental states.

You see what this means, don't you? If your mental state is subjective, and everything you know and understand about your reality is a mental state, then your reality is __________.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by bf1983

not improving themselves or the world

1. Name me one thing you can do to improve yourself, which does not involve your thought.

2. Name me one thing you can do to improve the world, which does not involve your thought.

3. Enlighten me as to which LOA writer / teacher / guru has ever said that LOA cannot be used to improve things.

[Rockchick26]

I clicked on that link too,and gave them my email address and i never got any email. Then i found some links to some other sites about the law of attration being a hoax and i FOUND this antidote that site was talking about,only you dont have to give your email address,it's right there on the site,for anyone to read! I am not sure if this is the same one you guys found,but here's the site i found it on. I'm on webtv though so i couldn't copy and paste the whole address,sorry! So once you're the site you have to find where it talks about the antidote and click a few more times to actually get to the page.

www.thesecretantidote.com

And here is the guy who runs that site,this is the main page to his site,and you can also find the antidote from there. This guy made a nonbeliever out of me (a nonbeliever in The Secret,that is)

www.thomrutledge.com

[TomSprewer]

Ok guys, Acting Like Godot, Akashic_Librarian, JKrump, and Cyclon, Let me ask you this (and please be honest)...

- Have you attracted EVERYTHING you've ever focused on?

- Since you say that the 'so-called' law is always working, do you have/ do you experience everything you 'think' about?

Don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to understand the whole thing, and I have to say that although I practice positive thinking, I'm not even close to where I want to be.

What are your thoughts?

-Tom