the lie of attraction

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

Just because you dont live near it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Or so we like to believe.

Of course I don't think there's any way to actually PROVE subjective reality. Too much of a mind-bender. But you have to wonder, how far does your own connection to the universe go. Are you a small part of something bigger, or are you really the whole thing? Is it possible that what you currently think impossible, is pretty mundane in the larger context?

[Keith]

Originally Posted by bf1983

>He's basically saying since you're focusing on famine death, etc, that's all you manifest into your reality; you see people dying, suffering from famine and starvation etc.

So I should just turn a blind eye to this and focus on daisies and sunshine?

What about the people themselves? A child dies in Africa every 3 seconds due to poverty - THAT is reality. Not my reality - their reality.

Yeah, I find this a scary aspect of belief in the LoA too.

I once saw an LoA "expert" state that you shouldn't interact with fat people because you don't want to bring a focus on being overweight into your reality.

[Acting Like Godot]

Let me put it this way.

If you grow up in a typical Russian family in Russia, you will tend to think and live like a Russian. Culture, social conditioning and all that. And your "Russian" beliefs will create a "Russian" reality for yourself.

If you grow up in a typical Indian family in India, you will tend to think and live like an Indian. Culture, social conditioning and all that. And your "Indian" beliefs will create a "Indian" reality for yourself.

If you grow up in a family where everyone was successful, positive and happy, that affects your beliefs as well. If you grow up in a dysfunctional family, that also affects your beliefs. If you grow up in a family where everyone was a musician, that also shapes you.

The relationship between internal beliefs and external reality is two-way and dynamic. What you believe, shapes your external reality. What you observe in your external reality, also shapes your beliefs.

Simple as that.

Now to all those ridiculous people who say things like "Shall I turn a blind eye to all the starving children in Africa? Is this what LOA teaches?"

..... I simply say this -

even before you EVER heard of the "Law of Attraction", were you actually doing anything to help the starving children of Africa? Sending money, sending blankets, raising funds?

Most of the time, the honest answer is No.

So the morally high-handed, self-righteous attitude these people exhibit toward LOA is really quite ....... ridiculous.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Keith

I once saw an LoA "expert" state that you shouldn't interact with fat people because you don't want to bring a focus on being overweight into your reality.

Let's make the fairly reasonable assumption that most fat people are fat because they eat too much, eat unhealthily and don't exercise.

Now what happens if you tend to associate a lot with fat people? Let's assume, for example, that all your family members are obese. Chances are you will share a similar lifestyle. When everyone gathers around the backyard barbie to cook and gorge on huge, obscenely over-sized servings of beef & fatty lamb ....

(yes, I use this illustration because Keith is from Australia, and this is pretty much Australian culture)

......... chances are you will want to participate. Hey, they're your family.

Now of course it is possible to hang out with people of any particular kind, and not subconsciously be affected by them. You'll just have to watch your mind, that is all.

If your mother is fat, that is no reason to avoid her. In fact, there are plenty of reasons why you should not avoid her (like, she's your mother). But you may want to take extra care not to be subconsciously influenced by her unhealthy lifestyle habits. That is all.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by bf1983

I came across this today;

The Lie Of Attraction

It's easy to knock something but I have to confess that part of me is also starting to question this LOA material myself.

What do you think?

I agree that in one sense, the guy on the site says........

Jeff - the Lie is that sitting in a field thinking about what magically producing a Ferarri or million bucks into your life is not going to work.

“Think sunny and happy thoughts and your life will be amazing” does not cut it in reality. That is the lie.


I think this is just wish washy bull.

What is true though, is if you concentrate on something enough and add ACTION then things will be attracted to your life - the things that you are taking ACTION towards.

The so called 'law of attraction' without the ACTION is plainly inept. On that basis the 'law' is bogus.

Wishing you all well.

[Acting Like Godot]

For you, Stephen.

the lie of attraction

[Acting Like Godot]

For you, Stephen. Click this link

In case you're wondering, no, these are not the only 10 occasions in my life where I have successfully manifested my intentions, with pure thought, no action. These 10 occasions just happen to be the ones that have happened most recently (in the last 3 months or so),

In case you're also wondering, no, I do not sit around all day just visualising my intentions. But there have been many occasions where I visualised; and I wanted to take action; but before I could, the universe had already fulfilled my intention.

A very small example of this is actually shown in Example 10, if you click the links. What happened was that I intended to get certain information on a topic. I actually took action - I went to a bookstore and bought a book on the topic.

HOWEVER, on that exact same day, an almost-complete stranger gave my wife a free, new & expensive book on the very same topic, and my wife gave it to me later that same day. So in fact, I need not have bought a book myself.

The universe was already moving to bring the necessary book to me.

This is just a small example. Those without genuine LOA experiences will dismiss it as a random coincidence. Those who are skilled at LOA will consistently and regularly generate "coincidences" that help them towards their goals.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

For you, Stephen. Click this link

In case you're wondering, no, these are not the only 10 occasions in my life where I have successfully manifested my intentions, with pure thought, no action. These 10 occasions just happen to be the ones that have happened most recently (in the last 3 months or so),

In case you're also wondering, no, I do not sit around all day just visualising my intentions. But there have been many occasions where I visualised; and I wanted to take action; but before I could, the universe had already fulfilled my intention.

A very small example of this is actually shown in Example 10, if you click the links. What happened was that I intended to get certain information on a topic. I actually took action - I went to a bookstore and bought a book on the topic.

HOWEVER, on that exact same day, an almost-complete stranger gave my wife a free, new & expensive book on the very same topic, and my wife gave it to me later that same day. So in fact, I need not have bought a book myself.

The universe was already moving to bring the necessary book to me.

This is just a small example. Those without genuine LOA experiences will dismiss it as a random coincidence. Those who are skilled at LOA will consistently and regularly generate "coincidences" that help them towards their goals.

Good luck mate.

If you think it works, good on ya.

It amazes me though, that apostles of the LOA tend to put inverted commas around 'coincidence' when it fact coincidence is just fine the way it is.

[RT Wolf]

Are Your Friends An Elevator or a Cage?

"You become the average of the five people you spend the most time with" or something i recall hearing, too and its true. I've always been an extrovert but in high school I spent a lot of time with people who were a bit neurotic and I became neurotic, stopped hanging out with them and became an extrovert again.

About the above point about coincidence: I think most practitioners prefer synchronisity which means meaningful coincidence. Coincidence may well be random chance and ALG is claiming that it is not, so you need a way to distinguish that.

[Joely]

Originally Posted by Keith

Yeah, I find this a scary aspect of belief in the LoA too.

I once saw an LoA "expert" state that you shouldn't interact with fat people because you don't want to bring a focus on being overweight into your reality.

It's not the LOA saying that, it's scientific research:

Obesity spreads to friends, study concludes - International Herald Tribune

Who you hang out with will affect your habits, whether it's food or alcohol or your attitude to success.

[hkalchemy]

It sounds like alot of people are getting worried about defending their position, either for or against the (so called) law of attraction.

Why not just read, explore, experiment, and see what works for you? The truth is the truth, whatever it is. Personally, the 'aw of attraction' has been very important in my life and I try to use it consciously to manifest abundance. But I have no desire to sell it!

You may wish to read this article on this very subject.

[hkalchemy]

Originally Posted by cylon

Either you attract everything or you don't.

Where is the evidence for this? Can you show, beyond reasonable doubt, that (for example) the millions who died in the holocaust, 'attracted' their fate? Of course, there are many other examples I could cite here.

I hate to be the voice of dissent, and I do believe that we are responsible for creating our own experience of life (as my blog explores at length), but I do think this idea can be taken too far, and I object to sweeping statements with no supporting evidence.

[nightdiamond]

Originally Posted by Keith
Yeah, I find this a scary aspect of belief in the LoA too.

I once saw an LoA "expert" state that you shouldn't interact with fat people because you don't want to bring a focus on being overweight into your reality.

Then what about fitness instructors? They interact with fat people everday and have better figures than the average person!

And that include surgeons who perform liposuction and tummy lifts ect. A thin person married to a chubby person.....

I tend to agree that there are a lot of extreme ideas that come from L.O.A these days.

And that may be one of the reasons for the criticisms against it.

In a way it can simillar to a person who is just introduced to a religious concept and becomes very enthusastic about it promoting the ideas with a well meaning intention, but without the investigation to go with it. However religions also have a problem with extremists views, idealogy, ect. especially with it's leaders and teachers, (i.e Texas polygamy cult)

It can be the same with L.O.A ... the idea is nice, and shows potential, but a lot of people are doing the same thing that religious cults and extremists are doing- projecting extreme views of L.O.A .


BF1983

That's just it though. This is one of the things they roll out of the woodwork. If the law of attraction really is a law then what you said doesn't make sense;
If I drop a brick on your head from 20 feet above but you don't believe in gravity someone's still going to have a lump on their head and it won't be me.

A law's existence doesn't depend on whether people believe it or not surely.

I might try this next time I get caught for breaking the speeding law;

"No officer, I will not accompany you to the cells, I do not believe in the speeding law."

You can't argue with that!

Another serious question is going to come up concerning this too.... how can a 1 year old child focus on famine?

My intention is not to discourage belief in this idea, but only to take a good look at the questions and views surrounding this concept and see what conclusions may be come to. If it is false, then yes of course I would discourage it, but if it has any promise, then it deserves to be studied, investigated until we can make some sense of it, to use practically.

I enjoy this discussion everyone, thanks ...

[mercuryrising]

Just to stir the pot here, considering what we experience is actually a model we have constructed in our minds, everything you think, speak and act is in your head. Intention, IMO, is saying that you are the one who makes the model and you can change any of it according to your will. We assume there is something "out there", but there is no one who can prove it.

Just because a reality is persistent does not make it absolute.

[maxdof]

Originally Posted by bf1983

I came across this today;

The Lie Of Attraction

It's easy to knock something but I have to confess that part of me is also starting to question this LOA material myself.

What do you think?

I think you title is right.

law of attraction

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by nightdiamond

A thin person married to a chubby person.....

Here, for you:

The Link Between Couples and Weight

"May, 2007—A growing body of research has found a connection between couples and weight. Not only do women and men who live together tend to gain weight at similar times, they also are more likely to achieve better results if they tackle weight loss as a couple ......"

Another serious question is going to come up concerning this too.... how can a 1 year old child focus on famine?

The reason why I am not addressing the above question is because I've answered it (and similar questions) many times before. So I find it tedious and boring. It isn't as if the usual books haven't already also answered all these questions. Try reading "The Law of Attraction" by Jerry & Esther Hicks.

As a matter of fact, in every religion, similar questions come up. Eg "If [God is good]/[God exists], why does He allow 1-year-old children to starve?".

The answers have been given. And those answers could be further discussed and explored, as they raise other implications which can be further studied. But while those further discussions and explorations and studis would be interesting for me, it has become too tedious for me to keep repeating the answers, at their first basic level.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by nightdiamond

It can be the same with L.O.A ... the idea is nice, and shows potential, but a lot of people are doing the same thing that religious cults and extremists are doing- projecting extreme views of L.O.A .

IMO, the comparison of LOA with religious cults is terribly and fundamentally flawed. There are too many differences, but I'd just mention the one which is the biggest to me:

Cults brainwash you into a certain fixed set of beliefs. So for instance a cult member may be brainwashed to believe that the earth will certainly end on a particular date; or that Reverend Moon is the saviour of the univers; or that you must eat this or must not eat that or must have sex or mustn't have sex or must wear certain types of clothes or must pray in certain ways or whatever; or you must be subservient to the cult leader etc etc.

LOA is the complete opposite. LOA frees you to consciously explore and re-examine every single one of your beliefs. It doesn't tell you what to believe - instead it suggests that you are potentially free to believe or disbelieve whatever you want. Thus it encourages you to examine and explore all your thoughts and beliefs - from "big" things like life, death, religion, society, science, physics, medicine ..... down to "mundane", personal stuff like your thoughts and beliefs about your own relationships, health, wealth, career, personal fears, hopes etc. And after that, it is entirely up to you to try to accept, reject, change or develop ANY of those beliefs, as you please.

The linkage of LOA with cults is therefore, IMO, completely mistaken.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by mercuryrising

Just to stir the pot here, considering what we experience is actually a model we have constructed in our minds, everything you think, speak and act is in your head.

Actually it goes far beyond your own speech and acts. Everything that has ever happened in the universe, as far as you are aware of it, has also happened in your head.

For there is nothing about the universe that you know or are aware of or understand, which is not knowledge, awareness or understanding. That is to say, processes of your own mind.

Intention, IMO, is saying that you are the one who makes the model and you can change any of it according to your will.

That assumes that your conscious will is all-powerful. I don't know about yours, but mine isn't. IMO, there are definitely numerous practical limits to LOA, and those limits, obviously relate to your ability to change yur thoughts and beliefs.

[nightdiamond]

Hi Acting Like Godot, and everyone else,

My prior post focused on how certain views of L.O.A are extreme such as joely's claim of Miss. Byrne's suggestion that one shouldn't interact with fat people because they don't want to end up bringing the focus of being overweight into their reality.

Unless it was taken out context, and it could have been, to me that is an extreme view. And ironically it is simillar to examples where certain religious sects urge their members to avoid certain people, ex-members, ect.

If a person was weak minded enough, you might very well see that person avoiding fat people like the plague because of what he or she read from the book.


The post is more like a comparison of how L.O.A can have extreme beliefs just like religions can have.

A religious extremist may say, 'that huge earthquake happened because America continues to allows (fill in here) to happen'; An L.O.A extremist may say that person's car was stolen because they attracted it...



I'm comparing between the extremist views that may come from religion or certain L.O.A adherents.

Thank you for the article link, Acting Like Godot;

In this case, the article seems to refer to both parties gaining weight at the same time, not as much about one spouse gaining weight after living with a spouse who is already overweight, which the idea seem to be that interacting with an already overweight person will cause one to gain weight themselves.

And here are specific reasons also given in the article;

The reasons why living together may predispose couples to excess weight seem to be twofold. First, marriage generally increases eating opportunities because married people tend to eat together, and they may eat more when dining together than if they were eating alone. Secondly, the newly married person may have less motivation to stay thin. In a single world, both men and women want to maximize their attractiveness to the opposite sex and that often includes having a healthy body weight. With marriage, the comfort of being in a stable relationship can lead to a reduced commitment to maintaining one's weight.

My main idea is that many people who have had past experiences with extreme beliefs, religious or otherwise, would be weary as a rule when they encounter a certain belief with.... some extreme ideas.

I love debating this issue because I learn more from it everyday...

Take care everyone...

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by nightdiamond

I'm comparing between the extremist views that may come from religion or certain L.O.A adherents.

I'm not sure I agree with Byrne's line of reasoning either. Like if there is a report on famine in Africa, I should ignore it because it will create more famine in Africa. The problem is in taking a principle and applying it with a large brush.

As an aside, this can be done with anything. People like Richard Dawkins critique religion for being divisive and dogmatic, but ignore atheist regimes that do the same thing. It isn't so much the idea, as the way it is used.

[nightdiamond]

I'm not sure I agree with Byrne's line of reasoning either. Like if there is a report on famine in Africa, I should ignore it because it will create more famine in Africa. The problem is in taking a principle and applying it with a large brush.

As an aside, this can be done with anything. People like Richard Dawkins critique religion for being divisive and dogmatic, but ignore atheist regimes that do the same thing. It isn't so much the idea, as the way it is used

I agree, what would have happened to the civil rights movement with that attitude? Focusing on the injustice and direct action helped to change things alot for many many people....

Yes, and Dawkins often comes to the hard-core conclusion, 'this is all there is, there is nothing else, you're wasting your time persuing this' to me, another extreme example, I think....

[jawillie]

You don't focus on the PROBLEM, you focus on the SOLUTION.

So, you don't "ignore" problems, you just don't dwell on them... you look at what you want in the end. The SOLUTION. What does it look like when the problem is SOLVED??? Then you start heading in that direction. When your mind is in the game, things happen! Some you "work" for (effortlessly) and some just come to you.

Have you guys read anything on LoA of IM? Dr. Wayne Dyer is my personal favorite. He doesn't talk about "not thinking" about problems. That's not even it at all.

[Mags]

Originally Posted by mercuryrising

I'm not sure I agree with Byrne's line of reasoning either. Like if there is a report on famine in Africa, I should ignore it because it will create more famine in Africa.

From The Science of Getting Rich (Wallace Wattles, 1910):

"I do not say that you should be hard hearted or unkind, and refuse to hear the cry of need; but you must not try to eradicate poverty in any of the conventional ways. Put poverty behind you, and put all that pertains to it behind you, and "make good."
Get rich; that is the best way you can help the poor.
And you cannot hold the mental image which is to make you rich if you fill your mind with pictures of poverty. Do not read books or papers which give circumstantial accounts of the wretchedness of the tenement dwellers, of the horrors of child labor, and so on. Do not read anything which fills your mind with gloomy images of want and suffering.
You cannot help the poor in the least by knowing about these things; and the wide-spread knowledge of them does not tend at all to do away with poverty.
What tends to do away with poverty is not the getting of pictures of poverty into your mind, but getting pictures of wealth into the minds of the poor.
You are not deserting the poor in their misery when you refuse to allow your mind to be filled with pictures of that misery.
Poverty can be done away with, not by increasing the number of well to do people who think about poverty, but by increasing the number of poor people who purpose with faith to get rich.
The poor do not need charity; they need inspiration. Charity only sends them a loaf of bread to keep them alive in their wretchedness, or gives them an entertainment to make them forget for an hour or two; but inspiration will cause them to rise out of their misery. If you want to help the poor, demonstrate to them that they can become rich; prove it by getting rich yourself."

[hkalchemy]

It's very important to focus on the positives. Even if you think LOA is a lot of nonsense, being positive will give you a better experience of life. And to those who think that being positive is not realistic, why is it less realistic than being negative? You can DECIDE whether the glass is half empty of half full. In my experience, happy, optimistic people are more successful than the moaners and complainers. They don't waste their energy of negativity.

The 'lie of attraction' thing is about the way 'The Secret' has been packaged, I think. I agree with some of it, but they're not actually criticizing the 'law of attraction,' as such, just a twisted and myopic view of it, and rightly so.

[jawillie]

Originally Posted by hkalchemy

It's very important to focus on the positives. Even if you think LOA is a lot of nonsense, being positive will give you a better experience of life. And to those who think that being positive is not realistic, why is it less realistic than being negative? You can DECIDE whether the glass is half empty of half full. In my experience, happy, optimistic people are more successful than the moaners and complainers. They don't waste their energy of negativity.
.

In Harmonic Wealth he talks about being optimistic. I like that word instead of "being positive."

I have been told I focus too much on the negative in the past, yet my life always works out because deeeeeeep, deeep down I am an optimist. *I* know it, but those who hear me complain don't believe it. My life has always been "okay" because I honestly EXPECT it to be okay.

[7 Secrets of Manifesting]

Originally Posted by bf1983

It's easy to knock something but I have to confess that part of me is also starting to question this LOA material myself.

What do you think?

They're taking a new marketing approach, a very unique one.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by jawillie

In Harmonic Wealth he talks about being optimistic. I like that word instead of "being positive."

I have been told I focus too much on the negative in the past, yet my life always works out because deeeeeeep, deeep down I am an optimist. *I* know it, but those who hear me complain don't believe it. My life has always been "okay" because I honestly EXPECT it to be okay.

I find a lot of the examples given about LoA to be too easily contradicted, and typically it seems to me like we simply don't know enough about this "law," but I'm going to give an example here that was very noticeable to me.

I've been selling on eBay and to another customer base for nearly six years, and have mailed out perhaps 6,000 packages/large envelopes in that time, using the U.S. postal service. I have virtually no problems, even though the vast majority of my mailings are done through the cheapest methods -- media mail and bound printed material. These two methods can be very slow. In around 6,000 packages, maybe five or six have gone missing, and one of those went overseas, and one went to Louisiana soon after the hurricane. So I don't add extra services like delivery confirmation unless there's a certain dollar amount where I have decided it's worth it to add insurance.

Recently I had an e-mail discussion with another seller who adds delivery confirmation to everything and hates using media mail because she says the post office is always losing those packages. She says she has two out there right now that have disappeared, even with the delivery confirmation. She also hates going to the post office. She says everyone is crabby and snobbish. I told her I love going to the post office, that everyone is friendly and it makes a nice break in my work routine, since a lot of the time I'm working at home by myself on the computer.

Then she sent a very long e-mail about how parcel post service is awful and media mail service is awful and how they lose packages, and how they even throw them away if they are "undeliverable," and how delivery confirmation is vital, and how she uses some other on-line postal service as well which adds a tracking bar code which then she has to explain to her customers is not USPS tracking, and so on, and by this time I was starting to get really befuddled, and all I kept thinking was, geez, I just take my boxes down to the post office and *poof*, a few days later they magically arrive where they're supposed to go.

She and I are using the exact same federal mail delivery service, yet we have completely different experiences.