the lie of attraction

[cylon]

Either you attract everything or you don't. This is where you get into the thing of if the universe is really one connected whole, and you seem to be one part but you are also the whole.

I'd like to say "no I didn't attract that I was a victim of xyz" but when the good stuff happens, I can see how my thoughts have created it. When I focus on something, it shows up. So if that's true the flipside must be true as well.

Basics: if you focus on misery and things not going right in your life, I think most people would be shocked if that translated into being a successful and happy person. Likewise, people who tend to be more postive and confident, tend to have more lucky breaks and their lives seem to be managed much better than the victim who thinks they have no power.

[TomSprewer]

Ok cyclon, interesting point.

Now let me ask you this, where does 'luck' come in play?
Don't tell me that when you win the lottery, you attracted it.

Hundreds of millions of people think, dream, breathe of 'attracting' the lottery, but only one person wins it all.

What's your take on that?

Regards,

-Tom

[bf1983]

Old the phone here guys because I agree* with you to a certain extent.

*I'll admit that thoughts come before actions, of course.

BUT (and it's big one) I know from firsthand experience that some people never get beyond thinking. Just *thinking* about getting something or achieving it doesn't on its own create that in reality.

I think this is my biggest issue with the law of attraction, it annoys me intensely that it's being rolled out as the be all and end all to the world's problems. Like if you don't like the situation you're in just send out some nice thoughts and you'll quit your crappy day job.

We all know, hand on heart, that it just simply doesn't work like this.

We can all discuss to the ends of the earth and have 11 pages of debate about the ins and outs but the way LOA is being bandied about is misleading I think. It's almost debased itself to a level of simple "wishful thinking".

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by TomSprewer

What are your thoughts?

Here are my thoughts.

It seems to me that there are many people who watch a 2-hour DVD, flip one or two books, surf a few websites, and then assume that they have covered all there is to cover on the topic of LOA.

Next, they compare their very flawed understanding of the LOA with their own reality. And they say, "Wait, this does not seem to be correct. How could African children have attracted their own sad fate? What about hurricane victims? I thought of a pink elephant, why does it not appear in my living room? If LOA is true, why can I not end global poverty by simplying thinking about ending it?". Etc.

They then conclude that the LOA must be false.

Of course, the only thing false here is their own very flawed understanding of what the LOA is.

Watching a 2-hour DVD, flipping two books and surfing a few websites .... This would be woefully insufficient to cover even a simple high school subject. How could it be sufficient to address a topic which purports to concern the ultimate nature of reality?

These people are not disagreeing with the LOA. For they cannot disagree with something which they do not even know.

They are merely disagreeing with their own very shallow understanding of what the LOA is.

[RT Wolf]

^ Agreed. Its taken me a few months of lots of study before I feel I have a decent handle on it and to actually start applying it.

Another thing to remember with IM (i personally don't like the term law of attraction) is that while it may be working all the time, gaining personal control over it is a different issue. There is such a thing as creating by default and without offering your own conscious thought. And remember that observation is creation, too, so simply observing your current circumstances will also create. Better to creatively observe:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...e-observation/

The other thing to remember is that IM is a skill. While it is portrayed as a law, your ability to use it for your own conscious ends is limited by your skill in managing and guiding your own thoughts and feelings. So this applies:

If IMing is a skill...

[moonrambler]

I don't know if we'll ever get anywhere on all this besides "agree to disagree" because from what I see of the complete non-skeptics, there is an answer to everything, even though the answers typically are highly anecdotal and theoretical.

I can understand the LoA as applied to places like Africa, if we go with the idea that people tend to attract more of what they've already got.

What I have trouble with is why horrible things happen out of nowhere to people. This theory of how the victim attracts the horrible experience. It doesn't hold up. Let's make an example. A family lives in a nice small town and then one day there's a shooting and several teenagers are killed, including a girl in this family. This happened about 100 miles from here last year.

First we're told that we get what we focus on. But this family never focused on this, never thought about it, never feared it, never imagined anything like that could happen to them.

Then we're told that they feared something else, had some other fear of loss or death or whatever. But -- they didn't. Really, they didn't. They were happy and everything was going great. They felt blessed. They were grateful. They did everything right.

Then we're told that subconsciously there must have been something that attracted this experience. Somewhere in their past some idea got buried in their subconscious but it was still there and suddenly blam, out it came.

I mean, no matter what, you can go anywhere with this stuff. If we reduce it down to that a victim attracts a murder even if she never focused on it, never feared it, never imagined it, never thought about it, never had any idea of it, was simply a happy popular fulfilled teenager looking forward to a bright and fun future -- it falls apart.

If we can't get past this theory of, "somehow, they must have had thoughts attracting it," when they absolutely did not, we are never going to have something substantial to offer the die-hard skeptics. There has to be a better reason. I seriously don't believe that the tornado comes through and only hits houses of people who attracted it while skipping the houses of people who did not attract it. Just like I don't believe one person managed to steer a snowstorm south of their town by declaring they didn't feel like having a snowstorm that day. Here we just set an all-time record for snowfall, and I don't believe it's because we attracted it through LoA, although maybe this last inch of snow we got that pushed us over the top was a result of the mass mourning over the retirement of the quarterback

[Acting Like Godot]

Have you attracted EVERYTHING you've ever focused on?

Conscious creation is best regarded as a skill. By conscious creation, I mean the deliberate use of LOA to shape your reality.

By way of analogy, conscious creation is like playing a piano. Some of us are complete duds. Some of us, although untrained, can figure out how to bang out a recognizable tune. All of us, with proper training and practice, have the potential to become quite good. And a rare few of us will be the Mozarts and Beethovens of the universe.

Do I succeed in creating EVERYTHING that I seek to consciously create? No. And that is because conscious creation is a skill. You can practise the piano all your life, and get better and better at it all your life, and still you will not attain perfection. Furthermore even highly skilled pianists can make mistakes; or have their off days.

And bear in mind that a mistake made is simply a mistake made. It does not mean that the laws of physics concerning the frequencies and wavelengths of sound waves from the piano are false.

What we do expect is that the more a pianist practises, and the more experience he gains, the more skilled he will become. And over time, he should therefore be able to play more and more beautiful music, and make mistakes less frequently, and furthermore we may expect him to almost invariably play the simpler pieces of music quite flawlessly.

And so it is the case with conscious creation. The more and more you do it, the better you should become. Your "hit rate" should improve, and you should be able to manifest more and more of what, conventionally speaking, would be regarded as "big" intentions.

And yes, that has been my personal experience.

So the answer to your question is - no, I do not succeed in creating everything I seek to consciously create, but over time, I do get better and better at it, and therefore I do end up successfully manifesting more and more of the events, circumstances and things that I want.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by bf1983

Just *thinking* about getting something or achieving it doesn't on its own create that in reality.

Nonsense, I do that all the time.

Furthermore I can also give you a few dozen types of different examples (not concerning myself) of how thought affects reality, without any physical action by the thinker.

For example, I can show you a study on how people asked to imagine themselves working out in the gym, soon attain an actual increase in muscular strength.

I can show you another study about how pet rats who are believed by their owners to be smart eventually develop superior navigational ability in a maze.

I can show you studies on how people with broken bones or surgical wounds will heal significantly faster, if they undergo hypnosis and are given hypnotic suggestions that they are healing rapidly.

I can give you well-documented examples of levitation, through sheer concentration.

On a more prosaic level, the ability of thoughts to affect reality is quite easily observable in yourself. Think angry thoughts and your blood pressure goes up; have a sexual fantasy and you'll get an erection; imagine yourself relaxing on an idyllic beach, and your breathing slows down; keep thinking stressful thoughts and you get stomach ulcers or sweaty palms. Etc etc.

[RT Wolf]

BF1983, I understand what you mean when you say that IM seems to be shown as the end-all and be-all.

ALG is making a point that is practical to him at his skill level but may not be to you. I, too, spent a long time oscillating back and forth between belief and doubt so here's some general tips from someone who's been through that sorta thing.

1. Relax. If IM is correct, yipee, means you can start to figure out many things. Even if you do or do not believe how the folks in Africa are doing, you can still help them out through practical means. Making more money can mean that you have more to give to help others. In fact, giving money is supposed to be excellent from an IM perspective,too, but its best done without expectation of reward.

2. We often tend to externalize ourselves and project these things outwards. Perhaps you are afraid that if you said that you believed in IM and someone did coem up to you and asked you if you really thought that the kids in africa were creating their situation and how horrifying a thought that is, perhaps you would react very harshly.
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...relationships/

3. Don't worry about other people and their reactions. This was a biggie for me. You can still remain anonymous and not tell anyone about your IM adventures.

4. You don't have to dive in completely and belive IM 100%. Take your time to test it. Think about it this way: IM is simply an intention and its manifestation. That intention can manifest a whole number of ways, through magical action, synchronsity or simple direct action. The law of least effort (as Chopra calls it) or just the path of least resistance applies here. You can keep physical action as your primary method of goal achievement but remain open to the possibility of extra-physical action. Allow the extra-physical action.

5. Don't let your intention to figure out if IM is real or not contaminate all your other intentions. Don't limit your "intentions" to manifest only through magical actions. This may not provide unequivocal proof, of course, until you are better at IM because it is only until later can you reliably use just IM because there is a learning curve to go from creating by default to conscious creation.

6. IM is not easy. Let me be clear about this. It is marketed that way, but it does take some effort, both to understand it and to apply it.

7. Think about it this way: If IM is correct then your thoughts create reality and you can have anything you want. If IM is not correct, then you wasted a bit of time and perhaps some money. However, PD is a bit like investing and not all your investments will pay off. The risk-reward, in my mind, works out.

8. Intend things that you really want, instead of artificial excersizes.

9. Have fun with it! This is a whole new area of exploration. Whether it turns out to be fruitful or not. Get used to being wrong, otherwise you'll never learn aynthing.

10. Applying IM is decently simple. My favourite method is this:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/i...ick#post115962
Its best to do this as you're falling asleep or right after waking up. Meditation seems to work well for IM.

11. Even if the magical aspects of IM are not real, the non-magical aspects are still excellent. Open up any regular PD book (such as Goals! by Brian Tracy) and you'll find many of the things we discuss in there, including visualization, committed decisions, being open and willing to change your plans when a new option presents itself, focusing on what you want and not on what you don't want (which doesn't make any sense, period), etc.

12. Like ALG suggests, take little steps to get "there" from "here". You may not be able to believe instantly htat IM works, but you can believe that intentions are the beginning of all goal-achievement. Then the possibility of extra-physical action is the only sticking point in your new model.

13. Again, have fun, read up a bit on it. Good books you can find at the libary include:
Read the Steve Pavlina posts on IM.
The Law of Attraction by Michael Losier
Seven Spiritual Laws of Success by Deepak Chopra. Much wisdom is in this book.
The Abraham-Hicks material
Whatever else ALG recommends.

14. Think about how beliefs and reason work. The idea that you can only believe in things that have been verified is not a limit of the human mind, but of the dominant philosophy of our time: logical positivism. For a formulation of it, look up AJ Ayer. The scientific method doesn't really apply here because it fundamentally assumes that there is an observer and an observed and that the two are independant and one does not necessarily have to affect the other. However, if IM is correct than there is no dichotomy and they are one and the same (depending on which version of IM you believe). But you still need some sort of criterion to measure this by, otherwise I could go about believing whatever I wanted regardless of proof or evidence (which a lot of people,including me, do). The yardstick here is creation and the ability to create. If your beliefs are coming more into alignment with the nature of reality, you should be able to create what you desire better. Is this objectively verifiable? Hard to say. For example:
Since I got back into IM last year around october on a serious basis, my income has gone up. If I am offered this new job, it would represent a four-fold increase in my yearly income (which isn't that much, just so know) but it would be quite amazing for someone with my age and background. However, objectively its hard to say whether there is a causation there, or even a strong correlation. But I'm inclined to keep doing whatever I'm doing, because it seems to be working until it seems to stop working.

ALG has had the same sort of experience as has Pavlina.

Have fun! HTH.

[Acting Like Godot]

I realise that this statement of mine:

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Nonsense, I do that all the time.

.... would probably sound unreasonably flippant, somewhat insane or just plain obstinate, to the newer, and non-believing, forummers. However, it was not my intention to be flippant. I do not think I am insane. And I was not trying to be obstinate.

It is simply a fact that I "do that all the time" - that is, I regularly get or achieve what I want, just by thinking about it.

So here I go again. Older forummers, please bear with me. I won't rehash my older stuff - even though some of those older examples are really exciting - for today, I'll just list examples that have occurred in the past 3.5 months, of intentions manifesting without any action on my part:

1. This is very recent - 13 March 2008. At lunchtime, I close my eyes and manifest for a new career option. By evening, a search firm calls me and asks me to explore a new job opportunity. I know nothing about this search firm; I did not apply for any job; I do not know how the search firm came to know about me.

2. This is also recent. I am thinking of some old friends; there is one in particular whom I want to have lunch with, but I have not met him for about half a year. I visualise his face; swirl him around in my mind's eye; and think "LUNCH". Two days later, at lunchtime, I bump into him at the train station. (In fact, he normally does not take the train at all - but his car had broken down that day).

3. This one is not so clearly documented on my blog, because it took place over a course of a few months. I guess this post + this post gives the best summary.

In a nutshell, my wife kept changing her mind about what she wants to do with her career. First she wanted to quit, then she wanted to work, then she wanted to work part-time, then she wanted to work part-time but with another company, then she wanted to work full-time with her current complany but from home, etc etc.

I tried to manifest for her what she wanted. But she changed her mind so many times that I had to redo the manifestations again and again. Very fickle woman I have, for a wife. Finally, I gave up and I manifested the following intention:

"That the company just give my wife absolutely whatever she wants."

A week later, the company comes to her and asks her to draft her own employment contract and put whatever terms and conditions she wants.

She asked to work two days less per week, and still be paid the same pay. Additionally she just asked for an extra 2.5 months bonus to be paid immediately (that represents more than $20,000 for her); this is in addition to the bonus that she had already been paid for 2007.

They agreed.

4. My mother and my wife had some relationship problems - they were not on speaking terms for months. In early March, I suddenly had this idea of casting a magickal spell to repair their relationship. (Magick is the new angle I'm exploring with LOA - I only started in late Feb 2008; wrote about that on this forum too).

Suddenly things became alright. I never said anything to either of them, about each other. But now my wife wants to take my parents out to dinner, and just now my mother called, and she didn't want to speak to me, and instead she spent half an hour chatting on the phone with my wife.

5. This is one of my biggest ones ever - it happened last month. I manifested $244,200 in one lump sum, under extremely impossible-looking circumstances. I'd written about this one previously on the forum too.

6. Here is another example of a bad relationship between two people, which I repaired by casting a spell. I never said a thing to either of them about how they should behave towards each other, but suddenly they became good friends, and one even told me that she really appreciates the other one now.

7. This is another rapid manifestation. I manifested for more money on 4th February, and the next day (5th Feb), my ex-boss unexpectedly calls me up and says, would I like to rejoin the organisation, he can offer me a salary increase.

8. This is another cute one, happened in January this year. I manifested for money, the next day it came out of the blue - $12,000.

9. This one relates to my kids. I manifested the intention for them to learn art. Two weeks later, someone sticks a poster at our apartment block (at a spot where posters are never stuck) advertising a nearby art class for kids that had just started. We signed them up.

10. In December 2007, I set the intention to find out how to eat more healthily. A week later, an almost total stranger unexpectedly gives my wife a brand new (and expensive) book on nutrition, and she gives it to me.

Well, on the topic of intentions manifesting without any action on the thinker's part, that's all the personal examples I have for the past 3.5 months.

(I actually do have other examples. For instance I intend for wisdom, joy and peace to enter my life, and almost immediately, for the rest of the day, I feel wiser, more joyful and more peaceful. But this kind of account won't convince the non-believers, so I haven't bothered to supply the links.)

[cylon]

ALG and RT there is so much good stuff in this thread I think my head will explode.

I love the piano analogy, especially since that's my instrument and even though I've been playing for years with my own stuff, I am now teaching myself to read music so as to be a better player, so this is a perfect analogy for me. One of my intentions was to be better at IM and I'm sure your analogy is part of that, lol.

When you get out of bed in the morning, IM or no IM, I'm sure everyone's intention is to get up and have a decent day in the world and do their best and hopefully have a productive successful day. So you get in the shower or whatever and take it from there.

The other option, is to not get out of bed in the morning, but to lay there, and think about all the troubles in the world. All the starving kids in africa (and every other horrible thing).

Which option is going to make for a better life?

[SunnKali]

Learning Strategies has Paraliminals where you model yourself after another person. The only one I can think of at the moment is Instantaneous Personal Magnetism. I'll have to explore my Paraliminal library to see if there are others.

I think ALG will be my model from now on! (borrowed benefits and all that

[Acting Like Godot]

Over here, RT Wolf has highlighted one of my blog posts:

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

10. Applying IM is decently simple. My favourite method is this:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/i...ick#post115962
Its best to do this as you're falling asleep or right after waking up. Meditation seems to work well for IM.

.... which is also an example of an intention manifesting very rapidly (overnight), without any further action on my part. $22,000, coming out of the blue.

Since I got back into IM last year around october on a serious basis, my income has gone up. If I am offered this new job, it would represent a four-fold increase in my yearly income (which isn't that much, just so know) but it would be quite amazing for someone with my age and background.

Oh, don't be so modest, Wolf. Fourfold is very, very, very good, no matter how you look at it.

[cylon]

Alright random post. Here's how I got my new car.

One day I was looking at my car and not liking it because it was getting old and has lots and lots of miles. And I'm intending to take a nice long road trip and I'm thinking of being stranded with my old car and it's making me nervous and I'm wanting cute chicks to be in the passenger seat yet it's dirty and I'm just not liking this car. And I'm thinking I don't want to take it in to be looked at to tell me if it's road-worthy because it'll cost a zillion to fix.

Tail light goes out, take it to dealership to fix it, they say my breaks are shot, I trade it in and get a new car, no money down, lower interest rate, didn't have to make any payments for a month and a half (my car payment was in a couple days). I got to the dealership, my car had just arrived about an hour before I got there, I love it and it was like 123 done.

They called to tell me they needed a fresh copy of my license, so I drove back so they could scan it, they gave me a full tank of gas for the wait. I asked when I would get my license plates--they said probably in a few weeks in the mail. That moment it was sitting in my mailbox.

I hurt my leg a few weeks ago by stretching it. I have been laying down on my back when I get home and driving has been extremely painful. Yesterday I commanded my leg to stop hurting. It stopped hurting and I'm basically fine now, It was two and a half weeks of constant, intense pain, now it's just gone.

I was getting upset I wasn't getting interviews. Getting really upset. Then I log into my email and it's to set up my first interview in over six years (it was a contrast interview turns out). Then my leg stops hurting.

So here I am with a new car, finally going on job interviews and facing fears, and my leg stopped hurting.

To me these are intentions. There are more. They may not seem very special but I can sense how they all seem to be connected, even if I can't explain it. I think the leg pain was even a part of this because it forced me to just think.

[Jonathan Mead]

You have to admit, it is pretty clever. Law of Attraction, Lie of Attraction. I really like the little hand drawn arrow sign pointing to the email sign up as well. Good marketing.

[cylon]

Maybe someone here said it, can't remember who... but I prefer "Law of reflection"

[TomSprewer]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

What I have trouble with is why horrible things happen out of nowhere to people. This theory of how the victim attracts the horrible experience. It doesn't hold up. Let's make an example. A family lives in a nice small town and then one day there's a shooting and several teenagers are killed, including a girl in this family. This happened about 100 miles from here last year.

First we're told that we get what we focus on. But this family never focused on this, never thought about it, never feared it, never imagined anything like that could happen to them.

Then we're told that they feared something else, had some other fear of loss or death or whatever. But -- they didn't. Really, they didn't. They were happy and everything was going great. They felt blessed. They were grateful. They did everything right.

Then we're told that subconsciously there must have been something that attracted this experience. Somewhere in their past some idea got buried in their subconscious but it was still there and suddenly blam, out it came.

I mean, no matter what, you can go anywhere with this stuff. If we reduce it down to that a victim attracts a murder even if she never focused on it, never feared it, never imagined it, never thought about it, never had any idea of it, was simply a happy popular fulfilled teenager looking forward to a bright and fun future -- it falls apart.

That's one of the main points I'm trying to get across.

Guys, I've been reading and (tried) applying the law of attraction since mid-2000, so it's not like I just wathed the Secret last week.

Can someone honestly comment the above quote, and where the lie of attraction stands there?
How about World War 2?

I'm confused about this...

Regards,

-Tom





Who can come up with an hopnest

[cylon]

Originally Posted by TomSprewer

How about World War 2?

Tom, this isn't really an answer to your question but maybe a question to you:

What does it matter? What does WW2 have to do with how you live your life?

This sort of thing, tends to go nowhere because we're in the realm of opinion, right and wrong, etc. All interesting subjects.

But IM, at least to me, is more of an experience... I mean I've seen how my thoughts affect my reality in a positive and negative way. I have experienced it. Although who or what may have "attracted" WW2 is interesting question in itself, what relevance does it have to YOUR life.

I used to debate Christians and they would always say "god's way is not our own or to understand", and maybe I'm actually doing that here... but I'm not trying to convince or anything. It's more "I have experienced this, and WW2 existed at the same time".

I don't have the answers but it seems to me these very questions block the flow of being in the moment. But of course as humans we are critical thinkers and love a puzzle.

I get much from taoism, which gets into dualism, light and dark, positive and negative, each being necessary for the other. You would not know good without bad. I don't think there's a god out there creating good and bad. Things happen and we decide what they mean to us.

Now I'm just rambling, lol.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by cylon

To me these are intentions. There are more. They may not seem very special

They are ALL very special.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by TomSprewer

Can someone honestly comment the above quote

I already responded to Moonrambler's questions of this sort, in another recent thread. Pointed her to specific passages in certain LOA books as well.

Point is, it's not as if the answers have not already been given .... I just don't feel inclined to keep typing them out again and again.

Whether you agree with the answers is one thing. But before that, you must know that there have been answers. Many of the "not-quite" believers have not even bothered to find out what answers have been given - they simply take the view that their questions are unanswerable and therefore the LOA must be false.

[Acting Like Godot]

Sorry, sorry

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Over here, RT Wolf has highlighted one of my blog posts:



.... which is also an example of an intention manifesting very rapidly (overnight), without any further action on my part. $22,000, coming out of the blue.

Wrong link ..... The link is actually here:

Acting Like Godot: Wow That Was Quick

RT Wolf's link is just the post where I describe this technique on the forum. Whereas the link above is an account of how I got $22,000 using this technique.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by TomSprewer

That's one of the main points I'm trying to get across.

Guys, I've been reading and (tried) applying the law of attraction since mid-2000, so it's not like I just wathed the Secret last week.

Can someone honestly comment the above quote, and where the lie of attraction stands there?

It's hard to comment on that. Anything "Law of" is denial of creatorship.
So we're starting with a denied sense of self off the bat.

You create all your experience or you do not. If you feel you do not then you'll be a victim to something 'out there'.

Anything 'the universe' gives you or you 'attract' is also denial of creatorship. So there's another layer of hiding within the Law of Attraction.

The Lie of Attraction (that PDF) is BS because it says you're not responsible for any of the ills in your experience. Yes, that's denial of creatorship too.

So can you manifest your own murder unconsciously? YES! It requires a lot of denial and a lot of fear and a closing down of awareness and space. You can do all that and still be unaware you're doing it. And you can look like God's most loved people on the outside!

That is the slick nature of denial. It is DESIGNED so you don't see it. And you can layer it on, deeper and deeper, more and more, all the while having no clue you've just painted yourself into a corner -- so much that the physical body can no longer stay in manifestation.

Your way of leaving of this dimension (murder perhaps) can be a great wake up call to the other parts of self that something has gone horribly wrong. Murder is quite shocking. It really gets our attention more than "he died in his sleep".

But, you know, it wasn't the family's fault they got murdered, it was some crazy psycho. Yeah that's it. Now I don't have to go to that place inside myself and feeeeeeel what's going on with me in the moment. That's what denial is designed to do, hide stuff.

It deadens you when you don't receive your creations. And that lack of reception for your creations and creatorship is reflected in the outside world. We do get to see what we're focused on. But all that thinking and visualizing, no... just focus on the moment and your experience in the moment. If you want to think about what you want, do that, sure, but then come back to the moment. The moment is more important than your thoughts by far. And your thoughts don't create... so don't fear them. Your thoughts are one way to see a little bit of what's in your consciousness.

[LoveFreedom]

hi Brian,
I sympatise with your questioning and it's a good thing to question, it promotes (attracts?) growth. I have just done a course where all bits and pieces we learn in a whole week only came together i the last day. For the previous six days my mind was full of 'yeah, buts' and my ego felt very offended for lack of the immediate answers, lol!
Good for me I lasted till day 7 when it all came together and I have a clear understanding of the topic.

In my experience with LOA (only about 7months long) I questioned similar things and kept serching for answers. i found that reading books people recommend in this forum was a great help. What helped me most was listening to Abraham Hicks cds, some of them over and over again (amazing how much new things i discovered on 2nd, 3rd or even 4th time). But it woud only take a single read of their introductory book (or free cd they send out) to find answers for some of the questions you ask. For example, their definition of 'law', an why gravity is not really a law according to their definition. It does not apply to all planes and modes of being, if you like.

I have also questioned poverty and our (mine) relationship with the fact that they are poor people in the world, that climate is changing and that some people are being murdered and raped daily. And, after some time spend on questioning and serching, I realised that it really is not about what is but about my relationship with it. My whining about poverty, feeling sorry for everyone and everything that is not a comfortable Westerner, blaming governemtns, blaming big corporation etc etc, was not really helping anyone. And it made me so angry on some many occassions about these others who don't care but just selfishly think of ferraris and stuff!
Was it distractive for me, of couse it was!!! Did it provide an excuse for me not to take full responsibility for my life. Sadly, it did! was it beneficial for these whome I pitied? Don't think so!

Now, dealing with this differently does not necessarily presumes we have to turn our eyes away and ignore everything! We just need to develop a different relationship with what, right now, we don't like. Relationship based on love and appreciation and acceptance. It's a huge paradigm shift and doesn't come easily. It also involved accepting that there is so much more to know and understand...

My life is not perfect, but it turned around in the last 7 months. There were times when i though it is going nowhere and then suddenly things would change and amazing opportuities would come my way. i gained clarity of vision and I am very excited about my life. I don't have everything i want (wouldn't it be boring to skip the journey???!), there is still many things I aspire to achieve in life. Material things too, but most importantly, the feeling of being alive, feeling passionate and excited about things I do, and hungrily awaiting every coming day. And this is what LOA gave me. Priceless!!!

Brian, read and search, you will find an amazing world out there!

[bf1983]

I'll go against the grain here and be brief;

All REAL laws can be stated in succinct terms - usually just a few words.

So what about LOA, can you give the accurate description of it in one sentence?

If being able to grasp, understand and interpret a law means having to devote half your life to do it it's not a law, it's just a collection of thoughts strung together.

It either works across the board and is easy to get or it's not a law.

[Acting Like Godot]

Ok, then it is not a law.

It's just how reality works, that is all.

[cylon]

It's a law based on our current understanding, of what constitutes a law.

And we all know laws are meant to be broken. No, I'm not suggesting you jump off a building to see if you can turn into Superman. The law of your own dominant thoughts that you can't fly would mess with it. And I enjoy science fiction, mainly because I believe it's "fiction", so that would screw with my law of enjoyable entertainment. Seeing a bunch of Jedi leaping through the air is enjoyable because it's not something I'm used to in every day life.

I personally don't know where the words "law of attraction" came from, I'm sure someone here knows.

I think the basic "belief" here, is that the universe is connected, we are all a part but also the whole, and since we are the whole, we can change our own "laws". Now that probably isn't so practical in this lifetime. Why bother.

Better to (again, reminding myself).....

Focus on staying in the moment. Think about the things you desire. Find that better feeling place.

When you get to that place, things like "laws" become intellectual pursuits, that have no bearing on the present moment experience.

But, the trick is, to actually have that present moment experience. When you are having it, you don't have these sort of yes/no, binary concerns.

To me that's the "secret".

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by cylon

I personally don't know where the words "law of attraction" came from, I'm sure someone here knows.

I believe it was William Walker Atkinson in 1906.

Actually he invented various terms to refer to the phenomenon. Sometimes he called it "the Law of Attraction", sometimes "the Law of Vibrant Energy"; sometimes "Thought Force".

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by bf1983

Or is this just some pseudo-law made up by middle-class Westerners for middle-class Westerners?

Nonsense, it was mentioned in the ancient Indian texts, long before America was discovered.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Dharma

Your way of leaving of this dimension (murder perhaps) can be a great wake up call to the other parts of self that something has gone horribly wrong. Murder is quite shocking. It really gets our attention more than "he died in his sleep".

But, you know, it wasn't the family's fault they got murdered, it was some crazy psycho. Yeah that's it. Now I don't have to go to that place inside myself and feeeeeeel what's going on with me in the moment. That's what denial is designed to do, hide stuff.

Well. While we're still on the topic of murder, here's an interesting video of Abraham Hicks talking about the murder of Martin Luther King:

YouTube - ABRAHAM ON MARTIN LUTHER KING -- ESTHER HICKS

[Akashic_Librarian]

I have noticed a lot of akward questions being asked about things. Like...nice people attracting bad things...intentions never manifesting despite the percieved 100% correct action...

Does anyone even read Steves blog?

Because in one of his articles on Subjective Reality he actually tells you the answer. LoA is nothing but wishful, new agey rubbish in an objective reality framework. In a subjective Reality Framework its the logical solution.