you bring everything into your life

[Vee]

I have issues with the claim that I cause every experience in my life.

I do believe that my thoughts and feeling affect my reality but i don't believe i cause every situation.

For example - if someone is prejudiced against jewish people. No matter how nice and open I am to that person they will not like me. I don't cause that, their beliefs cause that. I can't change or influence a person's core beliefs can I?

So surely some experiences are beyond our control.

[freddy]

" I can't change or influence a person's core beliefs can I?"

No, But you can attract that type of person to come around you. Right

[Vee]

Yes. I suppose I can attract that person. But why would I want to.

I find it very hard to accept that I've attracted certain experiences into my life. I have tried to look deep within myself and I still don't understand why I would cause myself such pain. Especially with events when I was a child. Why would I attract abuse into my life?

[torilink]

Originally Posted by Vee

I have issues with the claim that I cause every experience in my life.

I do believe that my thoughts and feeling affect my reality but i don't believe i cause every situation.

For example - if someone is prejudiced against jewish people. No matter how nice and open I am to that person they will not like me. I don't cause that, their beliefs cause that. I can't change or influence a person's core beliefs can I?

So surely some experiences are beyond our control.

If you believe other people exist outside yourself and share a common objective reality - then no you cannot "Cause" them to be anything.

If you believe everything you witness/experience outside of self is a physical manifestation of your thoughts/desires/beliefs, then it is your creation - and here is the belief that creates that situation:

"if someone is prejudiced against jewish people. No matter how nice and open I am to that person they will not like me."

This is your core belief.

if you follow a belief like this back to its source it is a belief in separation (there are differences in "people" everything is separate) and the victim/perpetrator drama, which of course then requires a savior or sacrifice, evil/good, judgment, and.... on and on - thus all religious thought arises from here.

it could be that all we see and experience is simply the manifestation of what we believe to be true. so to change this victim cylcle we must choose to believe something else. When we change the underlying reason (belief) for the manifestation the manifestation then changes.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by torilink

"if someone is prejudiced against jewish people. No matter how nice and open I am to that person they will not like me."

If I may take this one step further:

"if I am prejudiced against myself. No matter how nice and open I am to myself, I will not like me."

The physical world is a mirror of self. It shows you, you. If you say "well I'm not prejudiced...". I ask that you look at how you are judgmental with yourself. Look at how many times a day you make yourself wrong or react to a situation to make yourself look good. right/wrong, good/bad is a polarity that doesn't exist, but is a nice stick to hit ourselves with during the day and make it appear like it's coming from outside ourselves.

Polarity is just one game we play with ourselves, as is victim/perpetrator that torilink mentioned. The only way to change it is to come from the POV that, yes, I create this moment now. ...and, if I'm adding polarity, judgment, and victimization to my experience, I can choose to change that.

[Vee]

Dear Torilink,

Are we not venturing into denial here. I can't deny that there is racism, sexism , homophobia and other hate in the world.

My thoughts are I hate paedophiles and wish it didn't happen but it still occurs in the reality i am meant to be creating - why?

[torilink]

yes, you are venturing into denial, but you can change that.

We see what we believe -

[Vee]

I still don't get it - for example imagine i am a 20-stone, ugly woman. I can imagine I am beautiful and expect men to flock to me but it won't happen.

I know this from experience. I have friends who think they are really pretty (ie. parents told them/confidence) but they are not. And they don't get attention they expect from men.

Another example is talent shows such as American Idol - people go on there and you can see that they believe with all there heart that they can sing. But it's evident that they can't.

They see what they want to believe but it's not true....

I am not trying to be stubborn, I am really trying to understand these difficult concepts for my self-development.

[Angela]

Vee, I know that you're not trying to be stubborn, but please consider that what you believe is The Truth is not the Ultimate Truth For Everybody. You have taken on the judgement of what is beautiful or ugly for everyone -- don't you think that's a little arrogant? As for the singers, in fact you are the one who is in denial now, aren't you? Those people believe they can sing, and they are singing. What evidence is there that they are not singing? Maybe you mean, "they believe they can sing beautifully." Again, who are you to decide once and for all what is singing beautifully? In my book, if someone is singing, that is beautiful -- if I don't like the sound, I'm certainly free to change the channel or leave the auditorium or turn off the car radio, and that's a beautiful thing for me, too.

I am wondering if it's difficult for you to see the beauty in others because it's difficult for you to see it in yourself? The world is a mirror. When you're in love with your life, you're in love with everyone in it.

[Angela]

p.s.... regarding that "I can't make someone change their prejudice against me" thing.... I like what Byron Katie holds true for herself (I am paraphrasing): I believe that everyone loves me; they just don't all realize it yet!

There is nothing more Ultimately True about what she believes versus what you believe. It is only a matter of: which belief works better for you in generating a life you love?

[Vee]

Hi Angela,

I do think I get what you are saying - why should anybody decide whether my singing is beautiful enough?

But i want to belong and get along with other people and feel accepted. Humans are social beings. So if I sing, I would want other people to think it;s beautiful - because it would make it REAL. It's nice for me to be validated.

I know I should do it because I love it - but it's nice for people to share in that too isn't it?

[torilink]

Originally Posted by Vee

I still don't get it - for example imagine i am a 20-stone, ugly woman. I can imagine I am beautiful and expect men to flock to me but it won't happen.

I know this from experience. I have friends who think they are really pretty (ie. parents told them/confidence) but they are not. And they don't get attention they expect from men.

Another example is talent shows such as American Idol - people go on there and you can see that they believe with all there heart that they can sing. But it's evident that they can't.

They see what they want to believe but it's not true....

I am not trying to be stubborn, I am really trying to understand these difficult concepts for my self-development.

ok, I see what you are asking but those examples are dependent upon deeper belief structures such as others are "real" rather than manifestations/mirrors, those people are separate from the self, beliefs in judgment, degrees, "talent", inequality, lack, and many more.

also, it is never about "Them" it is always about YOU. Placing it out there in an objective reality and belief in "Them", was the first step in creating the illusion you call reality.

[torilink]

Originally Posted by Vee

Hi Angela,

I do think I get what you are saying - why should anybody decide whether my singing is beautiful enough?

But i want to belong and get along with other people and feel accepted. Humans are social beings. So if I sing, I would want other people to think it;s beautiful - because it would make it REAL. It's nice for me to be validated.

I know I should do it because I love it - but it's nice for people to share in that too isn't it?

Yes, it is about perception - we can only perceive those things and make them manifest if they align with our true beliefs.

that is why what we see when we look outside self tells us, or mirrors, our inner beliefs - if it were not so we wouldn't perceive it.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Vee

Hi Angela,

I do think I get what you are saying - why should anybody decide whether my singing is beautiful enough?

But i want to belong and get along with other people and feel accepted. Humans are social beings. So if I sing, I would want other people to think it;s beautiful - because it would make it REAL. It's nice for me to be validated.

I know I should do it because I love it - but it's nice for people to share in that too isn't it?

Well, it's certainly your choice to base your actions, or the realness of those actions, on validation from other people. You are absolutely free to do that.

The question I ask you is: does doing that work for you in generating a life you love? For me, I'm not interested in limiting my actions to what other people feel is valid or beautiful or acceptable, because not only does doing that rob myself of freedom and joy, it also robs the world of my voice (I mean "voice" in the larger sense, not just my singing voice.)

Withholding my full self-expression from the world is an act of great stinginess, I believe. I would be so incredibly sad, for instance, if Michael Brecker had refrained ( ) from playing his music because some people hate jazz, or if Mickey Avalon stopped doing what he does because some people find it offensive or awful. In the same way, not expressing myself fully would be stingy. In my world, generosity works better than stinginess.

That's not to say that I must express every little thing I think, or express something that would cause harm. Responsibility goes well with generosity, I think. Maybe you believe that some singers cause harm in the world? In that case, what you consider harmful might be considered sublime by other people. In the realm of self-expression, there is also the freedom to leave the room or be transparent or turn off the tv. I wouldn't consider it responsible to lock you in a room, forcing you to hear me sing or Michael Brecker play. We're both free, and I'll do my best to keep us both free.

[Fullcrum]

Vee - Realize that you as a being is not affected in anyway by external circumstances. With this realization, the realization of being, also realize that you have a skill, singing, which can be refined and improved in the external world, and that the external world will give you usefull reciprocal feedback with which you can further mold, develop, and refine your skill.

Empowering enough? Works for me. It rectifies the nonexistant disparity between being cool with yourself as you are now and developing skillsets.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Vee

So if I sing, I would want other people to think it;s beautiful - because it would make it REAL. It's nice for me to be validated.

So the only way I will receive myself, is if it's about how right I am.

I will not receive myself until I am worthy and the ones who say I'm worthy are all "out there".

For example: My weight is wrong, my looks are wrong, my singing is wrong... my world is wrong (racism, sexism , homophobia, hate, and paedophiles). And the only way I will allow myself to relax into the being that I am is to set my life up so I'm either right or wrong. I just cannot be as I am and be ok with it.

[Floridagal]

I am a university professor ( I am sorry for my English because it is my 3rd language). I have hundreds of great colleagues who of course have their specific research interests in different fields. They are great folks and are exited about their interests and the majority of them look forward to professional development sessions and conferences.


I would guess there must be a few who are good in LOA either way and the majority will not care and have no clue about the concept.

We have faced major budget cuts specifically 12.5 million $ were off the plate. Those people dreams in terms of conferences, professional development, and summer teaching were literally canceled over night.

Sure, not all of those hundreds were LOA fans and were practicing it. We have a pool of professors with different religious, cultural believes but still very strong dedication to their research interests…

OK the majority have not applied LOA but hoped and prayed in their own way and visualizes. But few were actually practicing LOA.

Why they can’t go to conferences they dreamed about and visualized but got ordered to cancel all travel ASAP?

[Vee]

Originally Posted by Dharma

So the only way I will receive myself, is if it's about how right I am.

I will not receive myself until I am worthy and the ones who say I'm worthy are all "out there".

For example: My weight is wrong, my looks are wrong, my singing is wrong... my world is wrong (racism, sexism , homophobia, hate, and paedophiles). And the only way I will allow myself to relax into the being that I am is to set my life up so I'm either right or wrong. I just cannot be as I am and be ok with it.

I do get that I have to love myself and not solely rely on the opinions of other people. But like I said before aren't we all social creatures?

I feel happy when I get attention from men, or I am having a laugh with friends or people compliment me on my clothes etc. This isn't the only thing that makes me happy - the sun makes me happy, and cats and reading a good book for example. But it's part of it.

It seems you are saying all that matters is what I THINK. But if that's the case my life would be so insular. Ultimately I do and think what I feel but I consider other people's views as well.

And I understand that I should accept myself as I am. But isn't life about growing too, and improving? I do like myself but there are things I'd like to change.

If someone went through life and no-one liked them, every single person rejected them - that person would be pretty fxxxd up I think. No man is an island. Other people's opinions do matter.

And Fullcrum - I am affected by external circumstances. I can't deny this. I wanna be part of the world and feel and experience. Not be a passive observer. If I was I feel I wouldn't be living.

[freddy]

Vee, Look for the post in here called " a great book about subject reality" Go to the last post by Juiliej and listen to the link she has put on. This may help or confuse you. I found it intresting myself. Thank you Juiliej for that post and link. Peace to you Freddy

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Vee

I do get that I have to love myself and not solely rely on the opinions of other people. But like I said before aren't we all social creatures?

I feel happy when I get attention from men, or I am having a laugh with friends or people compliment me on my clothes etc. This isn't the only thing that makes me happy - the sun makes me happy, and cats and reading a good book for example. But it's part of it.

One thing I would like you to do is separate the happiness and the current conditions. It looks like you are linking them and making one cause the other (x makes me happy). Happiness is a choice just as feeling the sun on your skin is a choice. Realizing they're not linked seems simple, but it is actually deeply profound on other levels.

The next time you feel happy, choose the conidtions and the mood:
I'm choosing to be with my cat AND I'm choosing to feel happy now.
I'm choosing to experience the rain now AND I'm choosing to feel blue.
I'm choosing to experience the rain now AND I'm choosing to feel joy.

What that does is separate the the two choices, so you know your mood is a choice and the other part of the experience is another one. What you feel is not dependent on any one thing, except your choice in the moment.

People can except you or not accept you... you can be cool with it or mad as hell. And mad as hell is what you might want to be, so go beat up a pillow or chop some wood, feel that fire and frustration to it's fullest. Yes.

And I understand that I should accept myself as I am. But isn't life about growing too, and improving? I do like myself but there are things I'd like to change.

Accept yourself as you are and go for growth, keep in mind that your current conditions are not wrong - they are as they are and you are choosing to move differently now. "Wrong" and "it shouldn't be this way" mean you're pushing away the moment, what is. It's a slippery slope. I remind myself of these things constantly.

And Fullcrum - I am affected by external circumstances. I can't deny this. I wanna be part of the world and feel and experience. Not be a passive observer. If I was I feel I wouldn't be living.

Did you mean? -- I choose my response to external circumstnces. I am not affected by them unless I choose to be. I will remember to watch myself carefully and note when I am in a reaction to something and give myself the option to change what I am doing or how I am feeling in the moment. I create this moment now.

[Vee]

Originally Posted by Dharma

One thing I would like you to do is separate the happiness and the current conditions. It looks like you are linking them and making one cause the other (x makes me happy). Happiness is a choice just as feeling the sun on your skin is a choice. Realizing they're not linked seems simple, but it is actually deeply profound on other levels.

The next time you feel happy, choose the conidtions and the mood:
I'm choosing to be with my cat AND I'm choosing to feel happy now.
I'm choosing to experience the rain now AND I'm choosing to feel blue.
I'm choosing to experience the rain now AND I'm choosing to feel joy.

Yes it is becoming clearer. I choose my actions and my reactions to those circumstances.

I choose to care about my physical appearance, I choose to hate murder, I choose enjoy the sun in the morning.

Maybe I can't be with the person I love but I choose how I react to that - I suppose there is always a choice.

But it's still hard - i've lost my job recently and i know i can choose to be positive or negative about it - but it's very hard not to feel sad - i suppose it's my mindset and i have to work on changing that.

So even if we can't control what happens we can control our reactions to them - but then I don't understand co-creating or law of attraction now.

Can I create my experiences or not? Can I truly attract what i want in my life then - i still don't understand that aspect

[RT Wolf]

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...oy-of-sadness/

[torilink]

Originally Posted by Vee

Yes it is becoming clearer. I choose my actions and my reactions to those circumstances.

I choose to care about my physical appearance, I choose to hate murder, I choose enjoy the sun in the morning.

Maybe I can't be with the person I love but I choose how I react to that - I suppose there is always a choice.

But it's still hard - i've lost my job recently and i know i can choose to be positive or negative about it - but it's very hard not to feel sad - i suppose it's my mindset and i have to work on changing that.

So even if we can't control what happens we can control our reactions to them - but then I don't understand co-creating or law of attraction now.

Can I create my experiences or not? Can I truly attract what i want in my life then - i still don't understand that aspect

yes you can, but this is the important first step - to stop REacting to the past. It is a cycle of reaction to things we believe are true - such as the example of emotion as a reaction to experience & perceptions.

we choose how we see and then intentionally put forth emotion & thought rather than emotion simply being a reaction to an experience or event.

[Vee]

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...oy-of-sadness/

Thanks RT Wolf this essay has helped a lot.

[Vee]

Originally Posted by freddy

Vee, Look for the post in here called " a great book about subject reality" Go to the last post by Juiliej and listen to the link she has put on. This may help or confuse you. I found it intresting myself. Thank you Juiliej for that post and link. Peace to you Freddy

Hi Freddy I tried to find the post but i couldn't. Thanks.

[Vee]

Argh. i am confused again - here is an extract from Steve Pavlina's blog on feelings -

Our feelings are a natural response to our thoughts and intentions. We don’t really choose our feelings directly. Our feelings are a feedback mechanism. They indicate whether we’re moving into alignment with our true desires (positive feelings) or out of alignment (negative feelings).

Simply put… we feel good when we’re moving towards what we want, and we feel bad when we’re moving away from what we want. And that movement is more about thought and intention than it is about action.

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2007/09/feelings/

It seems Steve is saying that we don't choose our feelings directly. This is what i thought i feel good when i am moving to thinks i like or my true desires - such as getting attention from friends, dancing, going out etc.
and i feel bad when i am out of alignment ie. around insensitive people etc.

So I understand that we can choose our reaction to something, but should we be trying to change our emotions because they tell us what is in alignment or our of alignment for us?

Aren't our emotions a guide? Don't emotions react to events to guide us??

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Vee

Aren't our emotions a guide? Don't emotions react to events to guide us??

Sure. You can choose your thoughts and intentions, so why not choose thoughts and intentions that feel good? It might not be direct, but deliberate thinking is certainly a way to change how you feel.

And you can do it on a dime. It's not a long, drawn-out process. You can feel good right now in the moment, just by deliberately thinking thoughts that feel good when you think them. Why wait?

(I think your true desires lay much deeper than getting attention and going out dancing.)

[torilink]

Originally Posted by Vee

Argh. i am confused again - here is an extract from Steve Pavlina's blog on feelings -

Our feelings are a natural response to our thoughts and intentions. We don’t really choose our feelings directly. Our feelings are a feedback mechanism. They indicate whether we’re moving into alignment with our true desires (positive feelings) or out of alignment (negative feelings).


Simply put… we feel good when we’re moving towards what we want, and we feel bad when we’re moving away from what we want. And that movement is more about thought and intention than it is about action.

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2007/09/feelings/

this statement by steve is correct for how we (ego) traditionally live & experience life, not for conscious creation. When we consciously create, it switches around - this way that steve is talking about is the egoic creation loop, like an automatic system - or "Autopilot". In this system emotions are a validation.

but, once aware that all perception is dependent upon beliefs, and emotions stem from there it becomes a choice, we can switch things around and decide what we want to see, experience, and make manifest in our lives.

Originally Posted by Vee

It seems Steve is saying that we don't choose our feelings directly. This is what i thought i feel good when i am moving to thinks i like or my true desires - such as getting attention from friends, dancing, going out etc.
and i feel bad when i am out of alignment ie. around insensitive people etc.

So I understand that we can choose our reaction to something, but should we be trying to change our emotions because they tell us what is in alignment or our of alignment for us?

Aren't our emotions a guide? Don't emotions react to events to guide us??

emotions will guide you back to your core beliefs, which is extremely helpful.

The trick with conscious creation is realizing everything we think we feel NOW is basically a "Leftover" validating emotion from a past manifestation we perceived - and depending upon how we judged that manifestation (experience) we have that coinciding emotion.

When we are all wrapped up in these emotions/feelings - we are bound in the past rather than the NOW - which is to say we are still within the automatic creation loop - the "Autopilot" program and haven't yet moved into choice.

[freddy]

Here it is Vee Give it a listen I think you'll find this audio really interesting (except for the bad joke at the beginning) http://arnoldpatent.com/axiom-seminar/seminar.mp3. I also suggest reading the universal principles & his book The Journey (available as an ebook).
Hope you find this as interesting as I did.

[Vee]

Originally Posted by freddy

Here it is Vee Give it a listen I think you'll find this audio really interesting (except for the bad joke at the beginning) http://arnoldpatent.com/axiom-seminar/seminar.mp3. I also suggest reading the universal principles & his book The Journey (available as an ebook).
Hope you find this as interesting as I did.

The ideas are interesting. Reminds me of the film the Matrix.

I do find it a bit hard to be happy about the creation of child rape or concentration camps though....But it is interesting to think as my life as a game to experience diff emotions even ones that i judge as "bad".

Need to work on playing the game i want though...