Is The Secret aka LoA Offensive?

[Radical]

After recently watching The Secret on DVD, I have to say some of the claims could be considered very offensive!

For example, The Secret claims that every problem in your life, or any negative thing that has ever happened to you, was somehow manifested into your life by your own thoughts. In other words, everything bad that has ever happened to you or will ever happen to you, (regardless of other peoples actions) is all your own fault.

It even goes as far as claiming that people who get cancer or people who have been involved in serious accidents, attracted these things into their lives via their negative thoughts. IMO this is even worse than belief in a supernatural god, at least religion shows people compassion!

Also, this kind of thinking has the potential to cause people serious harm! People who are seriously ill might stop taking treatment or medication, believing that positive thoughts alone are the answer to all their prayers.

It also suggests that every attempt at solving one of the worlds problems, i.e. terrorism, hunger, poverty etc (causes people have died for) has all just been a waste of time and energy. Instead it suggests we simply think positive thoughts, in the hope that the universe will somehow magically solve all our problems and make all our dreams come true... you can't be serious?

Does anyone else find this offensive?

[Mr. Punch]

Yes, it is definitely offensive and cruel when taken to that extreme.

It can be seen as the opposite of the age old theodicé problem within religions; if God is good then how come there is so much evil in this world? In other words, where all the responsibility for states and affairs in the world used to lay on a deity, it is now in the hands of the individual.

I guess the fierce believers in the LOA don't practice acceptance at all, they probably view it as a weakness. So the LOA is really not that spiritual in the sense that it eventually leads to the extreme selfcentered new-ageism. Which is just overblown egotism dressed up in pretty words.

Bix has been doing a lot of LOA bashing recently and I can defintely follow his trail. But at the same time, if you approach it with caution and don't let it go to the extreme, like some of the people on the Larry King show - the woman was particularly nasty with her remarks on bipolar - and you get a grip on the fact that it is some rather simple and plain truths, it holds value.

So I am both intrigued and skeptic about the LOA.

[Radical]

Maybe we should stop wasting our time helping out impoverished nations and their starving children? Maybe we should stop funding research for cancer and other incurable diseases? Maybe we should stop fighting terrorism, let the terrorists kill our citizens and turn our country into a pile of dust?

Instead lets all think 'happy thoughts' and sprinkle fairy dust over our heads.

PS I'm being sarcastic.

[Athena]

That premise in 'The Secret' is really disturbing--

it's trying to take LoA and apply it to EVERYthing in a blanket fashion, which disorts it and puts it where it shouldn't be

LoA, like many principles, works in SOME instances, but certainly does not explain everything. There are definitely other forces at work in the world to explain many of those situations, NOT LoA.

===

another related, and very disturbing suggestion from a writer/ 'medical intuitive' named Caroline Myss, who said that those with diseases are suffering because of bad karma. She related a story about a young boy taken to a mystic by his mother, who was told that the boy committed some wrong in his past life, and was suffering now because of it.
This is SOOO wrong and a very dangerous claim to make (it totally turned me off of her writing, which has quite a negative style anyways).

===

I think many writers, either in science, religion, spirituality, etc, like to take THEIR principles from THEIR field and try to apply it to explain EVERY situation or phenomenon in the world. It doesn't work like that. There are many forces and laws, in each dimension, physical, spiritual, that are govered by laws of science, logic, or spirit, etc.. that work on different levels. When we're learning about what principles govern what situations, we have to learn to find the balances between the information that is coming from each source.. (and try not to be offended by the extremists with distorted information.)

[Dating Specialist]

Originally Posted by Athena

That premise in 'The Secret' is really disturbing--

it's trying to take LoA and apply it to EVERYthing in a blanket fashion, which disorts it and puts it where it shouldn't be

LoA, like many principles, works in SOME instances, but certainly does not explain everything. There are definitely other forces at work in the world to explain many of those situations, NOT LoA.

Athena, I agree with you. We all should practice our own discernment to know which are the best strategies to use under various circumstances. Extremists ideologies tend to be provocative, like this case for example.

At the same time, I do agree that positive thoughts are very powerful. Mind intoxication can be the most fatal poison one can self-feed into one's mechanism. I believe in the Self-Fulfilling Prophecy, but not to the extent of negative thoughts leading to cancer.

Then again, if one is poisoning his/her own mind with all the negative thoughts, it does indirectly affects his/her energy and aura, which will find its way into his mental health, which then infiltrates into his physical health.

Positive thoughts and a strong-iron are boosters to cure a disease, together with the appropriate treatment.

[Andy]

LoA or even subjective reality can be misused really easily if the possible consequences (pros/cons) aren't fully thought out. I find that adjusting subjective reality-ish beliefs such that they're also beneficial (that they'll "work" for you) in an objective reality format actually results in a better grasp of subjective reality, not to mention less delusion.

[Nicketas]

Originally Posted by Radical

Maybe we should stop wasting our time helping out impoverished nations and their starving children? Maybe we should stop funding research for cancer and other incurable diseases? Maybe we should stop fighting terrorism, let the terrorists kill our citizens and turn our country into a pile of dust?

Instead lets all think 'happy thoughts' and sprinkle fairy dust over our heads.

PS I'm being sarcastic.

A couple of things you need to keep in mind here that you're missing, and that were covered in the secret (as well as think and grow rich, and countless other books)...

1] Physiological stress/health issues of any kind can make it more difficult to manifest your intentions, particularly if you are new at practicing the law of attraction. As such, healing yourself BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY is important. This may even include removing yourself from whatever harmful environment you are in, which brings me to my next point...

2] The phenomena/concept known as "Dominant reality." Whoever has the strongest beliefs/intentions in a given situation (particularly in a conflict) will have thier intentions manifested. You can look around and think of countless examples, I don't need to iterate or list any here. This is not to say 'dominant' in a negative way, but basically whoever has the firmest grasp upon their intentions; the more leadership, whatever you want to call it. This is counterbalanced by the unlimited abundance principle; we don't need to conflict (whether peacefully or not) over everything all the time to achieve a given desire. Dominant reality also explains why children, despite whatever intentions they have, can still be abused by adults because they have not matured in their personal power.

3] If someone is new at their understanding of the law of attraction, and hasn't had much practice manifesting thier desires, it may take them more effort to overcome whatever harsh circumstances are in thier environment. The solution is often to just move and "start over".

4] EMOTIONS are also a HUGE part of the law of attraction.

5] Some people secretly want the suffering they are enduring in thier lives. This may sound terrible, but it IS true. Its a bizarre facet of the human psyche. Such people will continue to manifest more suffering unless a change is made.

6] Some people, also, are so conditioned by thier suffering that to think or do otherwise is almost completely outside of thier realm of understanding. Such people will continue to manifest more suffering unless a change is made.

7] Everyone who practices the law of attraction has a slightly different take on it depending on thier belief system, but there is a lot of common ground. Not unlike how there are many sects/denominations of Christianity, but the core beliefs are the same.
My view of the law of attraction is faithful, but moderate. I still believe that other people are responsible for thier actions, but I can attest to many times where simply changing my energy levels/emotional state, even without using words, completely altered how people reacted around me. In fact, it happens to me to this very day. So my thoughts/views are such that you can influence other people, but you are not God. I hold people accountable for thier actions BUT STILL look for ways I can help influence/change the situation for the better with my emotional projections and intentions.

8] You're still using the law of attraction with this very post you made that I am now replying to. By focusing on something you perceive as horrible and negative, you completely disregard the enormous benefits of the law of attraction.



Its called personal responsibility for your emotional state. Use it.

The answers I just gave neatly explain practically every problem in the world.

Yes every thought is a creation, but since we're dealing with ENERGY here, the STRENGTH and FOCUS, and EMOTIONAL SIGNAL of that thought is what truly counts.

Enjoy.

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Nicketas

5] Some people secretly want the suffering they are enduring in thier lives. This may sound terrible, but it IS true. Its a bizarre facet of the human psyche. Such people will continue to manifest more suffering unless a change is made.

You mean, like children who get raped and murdered? If they want this, why should we pity them?

The answers I just gave neatly explain practically every problem in the world.

Ok, how can you change, or better, the world then? Or isn't that your main interest? Is it mainly just about changing yourself? And the others should look after themselves ... ?

[SamBeaven]

[QUOTE=Markus74;21982]You mean, like children who get raped and murdered? If they want this, why should we pity them?/QUOTE]

'Want' is the wrong word, it's more like 'are accustomed to'. It's an extension of homeostasis - the body wants to keep getting what it's been getting, because that's familiar and it thinks it can survive. Change is scary on an intrinsic level, even change for the better, because of this.

So, if a child is used to suffering and expects suffering, they can as a consequence be said to desire suffering on a subconscious level because it's familiar. And because they're not taking responsibility for their emotional state (through no fault of their own: they were probably never instructed in this stuff, it's still considered fringe and a bit woo-woo), they continue to attract suffering, sometimes with terrible consequences.

[Nicketas]

[QUOTE=Markus74;21982]You mean, like children who get raped and murdered? If they want this, why should we pity them?


WHOA WHOA WHOA. Back up. You're putting words in my mouth while ignoring my dominant reality concept. Read my post again, specifically that section.

Ok, how can you change, or better, the world then? Or isn't that your main interest? Is it mainly just about changing yourself? And the others should look after themselves ... ?

Read my post again.

Those of us with more dominant & conscious intentions would do well to make it our responsibility to use the law of attraction to help those who are weak and have less power. Attract resources to ourselves in order to give to others while teaching them about the law and how to better their own lives.

Ultimately yes each person is responsible for his/her own life, but those who are being taken advantage of or enduring harsh circumstances without the power/resources to overcome(particularly children) should be taken care of via the methods I mentioned above and in my previous post.

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by Radical

The Secret claims that every problem in your life, or any negative thing that has ever happened to you, was somehow manifested into your life by your own thoughts. In other words, everything bad that has ever happened to you or will ever happen to you, (regardless of other peoples actions) is all your own fault.

It even goes as far as claiming that people who get cancer or people who have been involved in serious accidents, attracted these things into their lives via their negative thoughts.

I haven't seen The Secret, although I've been intending to see it (or I guess I haven't been since I haven't seen it yet ), but I do believe that people have complete control over their lives. Everything that has happened to you is ultimately a result of some action that you've taken. For instance if you go out and get hit by a car, it's your fault. The car didn't ride into your house to hit you, you went out there and put yourself in front of the car. Since you can only perform an action because a thought triggered it, your thought (of wanting to go somewhere in this case) ultimately was responsible for the outcome.

That example is probably not quite what The Secret is trying to convey but perhaps it makes more sense analytically. Personally I believe that one thing is definitely true -- that your current situation, whatever it is, is a direct result of the sum of the actions you've taken up to this point in your life (I heard this first spoken by Brian Tracy on a tape set I have). Since every action you've taken was a result of a thought you had, your thoughts are ultimately responsible for what happens to you in life. I don't know if your thoughts can cause you to get cancer, but if you have thoughts that lead to actions that cause self-destructive behavior then you certainly can cause your own death (by overdosing on drugs for instance).

Whatever the reality may be in terms of the law of attraction, the most important and empowering thing I've learned so far is that I'm responsible for what happens to me in life. If your life is not working out, you can blame other people, you can blame your financial situation, mental/physical disabilities, even God. Or you can take responsibility for your life and make the best of what you've got. And I think that's really what the law of attraction is about -- taking responsibility. If you decide that you can't achieve anything, you won't. It's a very easy road that many people take. But if you decide that you can achieve great things, then the universe will provide you with all the help you need.

[Antarananda]

Well said, Baltar! We're in agreement.

[Akashic_Librarian]

I don't think it is offensive at all. I think though that you have missed the point of what it is saying. You have to understand that everything is spawned of the SAME consciousness there are no objective parts to life. Its all subjective.

[Alvin]

LoA extremisim?! Are we seeing the beginnings of Law of Attraction terrorists?!

Just kidding!

[songwriter]

I'm gonna say it again (I think I should put this in my signature). I don't agree at all with The Secret, the standard Subjetive Reality model and that you are responsible for everything in your life... and in the world!.
I believe in IM but in a different way, everyone's got his intentions, etc...

[Richard_Todd]

Originally Posted by Radical

It also suggests that every attempt at solving one of the worlds problems, i.e. terrorism, hunger, poverty etc (causes people have died for) has all just been a waste of time and energy. Instead it suggests we simply think positive thoughts, in the hope that the universe will somehow magically solve all our problems and make all our dreams come true... you can't be serious?

I saw the movie, and have read online and offline LoA material. I don't remember any of them saying that you shouldn't do anything. They don't claim you are a genie that can just blink or twitch your nose to make things happen. Sometimes it may work that way, and other times, not.

In my view, the most important thing to understand when debating these things is: one event + two sets of beliefs == two completely different experiences. A person's reality is seen through the lens of their beliefs.

So, Bob believes that he can stop his cancer, and let's say it does stop. Bob claims it's due to LoA. Joe says, no, I've run some tests and found this medical fluke that could explain it. Bob says, I accept your explanation, and it was set in motion by my intention. Joe internally labels Bob a nut, and wonders why Bob doesn't also stop terrorism while he's at it. Whether you're Bob or Joe, you're still 100% right, because your beliefs make you so.

[Radical]

Originally Posted by Richard_Todd

Whether you're Bob or Joe, you're still 100% right, because your beliefs make you so.

This is where I disagree. I believe in a world outside of my own mind - I don't buy in to the idea of subjective reality.

[nolan22]

remember that it's not JUST thinking.

"When we have inspired thought, we have to trust it, and we have to act upon it."

LoA: Think--->feel--->act--->manifestation

[Markus74]

I think the LoA is very offensive. That's why I tend to think big parts of it are bogus.

Why would people with cancer have manifested it? And if they manifested it, why should we help them get rid of it?

Why would people that are suffering from hunger have manifested it? And if they manifested it, why should we get them food?

Why would people who get raped and killed have manifested it? And if they manifested it, why should we feel pity for them?

The LoA is a nice theory if you're living in a rather wealthy country and want to feel a little better, and to motivate yourself. But as a global theory it fails. Or at least has very sick consequences if you think it through.

[dorothy hanna]

Why would they manifest it? Did you read my other post on this thread? It's only a little ways up from this one.

Did you really watch the secret, at all?

The law of attraction works by ones focus.
Why would a person with cancer have manifested it?
Not on purpose, I assure you. It was done by what they persistantly focussed on. Through ignorance of the Law, and how it works.

They constantly focussed on (WHAT THEY DON'T WANT). By way of fear, and worry.
The Universe does not distinguish whether we percieve something as good, or as bad. It's energy flows where our attention goes.

If we hear about a rape, and the news plays the story over, and over again, and we are frightened by that story, and we start to worry about the possability of that happenning to us. Some worry more than others, and by this, they have begun the prossess of constantly putting this fear onto the main assembly line of the Universe for the tradgedy to take place.

Their focus was RAPE, RAPE, RAPE!!! Fear of rape, fear of rape, fear of rape.
No one is saying they sat back one day, and had a little fun fantasy they entertained, and said to themselves, "HMMM, that sounds nice. I'd like to have that happen to me".

The secret explained very simply that the LOA works by what we most focus on. This means whether the focus is through fear, and worry of a bad thing happenning, or the focus is of something wonderful, and great happenning.
It's the Focus.

Your interrpretting the word, INTEND, and applying it to only something a person conciously wants. Which implies that's what they meant to happen. Which is ussually understood to be good things.
But with the Universe, a person who is (UNCONCIOUSLY) intending, because they are ignorant of the LOA, and are unaware, they inadvertantly, due to their focus of worry, and fear of a bad thing happening, manifest their nightmares, instead of what they want. They manifested their dread.

Why should we help them?
Because we love. We are compassionate. We care. We believe in and we are pro-peace, and we are for freedom. Because we want to. Because we intend to.

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by dorothy hanna

Did you really watch the secret, at all?

Yes, I have. At first it looks attractive. Until you actually start to think. And to realize the consequences of such a 'law'.

Why would a person with cancer have manifested it?
Not on purpose, I assure you. It was done by what they persistantly focussed on. Through ignorance of the Law, and how it works.

What did they focus on then to get cancer? And why did it happen to them and not others who also ignore the 'law'?

They constantly focussed on (WHAT THEY DON'T WANT). By way of fear, and worry.

Hm. Children and people that get abused got abused because they focussed on not getting abused?? Sounds very weird to me. Or could you explain?

The Universe does not distinguish whether we percieve something as good, or as bad. It's energy flows where our attention goes.

Why is the Universe so stupid then?

If we hear about a rape, and the news plays the story over, and over again, and we are frightened by that story, and we start to worry about the possability of that happenning to us. Some worry more than others, and by this, they have begun the prossess of constantly putting this fear onto the main assembly line of the Universe for the tradgedy to take place.

So being afraid and scared of raped convicts you to getting raped? Again, what wonderful logic. And how moral.

Their focus was RAPE, RAPE, RAPE!!! Fear of rape, fear of rape, fear of rape. No one is saying they sat back one day, and had a little fun fantasy they entertained, and said to themselves, "HMMM, that sounds nice. I'd like to have that happen to me".

So what you are saying that all rape victims were obessed with rape before they got raped? Do you know how degrading such a view is??

But with the Universe, a person who is (UNCONCIOUSLY) intending, because they are ignorant of the LOA, and are unaware, they inadvertantly, due to their focus of worry, and fear of a bad thing happening, manifest their nightmares, instead of what they want. They manifested their dread.

So the Universe is not good? It's uncaring and/or even stupid. Religious people at least always claim that their God has, or Gods have, good intentions and can't do Evil.

[lazyFelix]

Originally Posted by Markus74

the consequences of such a 'law'

'heavier' positive thinking attracts better results
sound like gravity to me

what's offensive about gravity, it eliminates loneliness and forces you to team up, to help each other

now the bad part
the sum of all mass on earth makes the moon stay
no exceptions

so why is there war or rape in the world ?
i think it is because not everybody is pro-peace just like i am
why that ? cause nature likes diversity, it is a great tactic for survival
it could be the reason why you and I seem separated
so when you turn sceptic i the believer am your opposite (plan B)
just in case your plans do not work out

PS: support life, think positive

[dorothy hanna]

Great poat lazyfelix!
I choose life!

One of the sayings O idopted, that helped change my thoughts to be positive is to always say, in the face of all the negative things that people speak, and think, and act upon, is: LIFE IS GOOD!!!

And it has progresively gotten, and shown me more and more goodness, and sweetness, as this is my focus.

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by lazyFelix

PS: support life, think positive

I've got no problem with positive thinking

It's just the magical claims that are ridiculous.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Markus74

I think the LoA is very offensive. That's why I tend to think big parts of it are bogus.

I don't think it's offensive - I think you just don't understand it.

However, just to amuse you, I would ask you this: Why should something be bogus, just because it is very offensive?

If that were true, there would be NOTHING in the world that is authentically offensive.

[Markus74]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I don't think it's offensive - I think you just don't understand it.

Then enlighten me, oh wise one.

And please explain to me why people suffer from cancer or get raped, why some people get born in rich countries while others get born in countries with famines?

[Acting Like Godot]

Why bother? I already explained it (some of it, at any rate) to Radical, in another thread. For you personally, I think the following points are more pertinent:

1. You are desperate to disprove IM. That is why you keep hanging around this forum when going by your own arguments, the logical thing for you to do is to say, "Bah! What superstitious fools" and leave for good.

2. I have suggested that you simply try IM out for yourself. But you have tried to find 10,000 reasons why you should not try it out for yourself. Even though trying it out would cost you nothing, take only a little of your time, and not hurt you in any way.

3. So you are obviously afraid of IM. If you believe that it is just a silly hoax, why don't you dare try it out for a little while, maybe two or three weeks, if nothing else, just so as to further convince yourself that it is a hoax?

4. You won't. Because you're scared.

5. You're scared, because you don't want the safe, familiar, predictable world that you live in to fall away. Heheh.

6. Of course you won't admit it. Your response will be that, "If I fail, you people will just say that I didn't believe hard enough." SO WHAT, my dear friend. What do you have to lose, if you fail. You'll simply be back where you currently are ... except that you have more grounds than ever before to be convinced of your current position.

7. And horror of horrors - what if you do not fail? What if you succeed? You will say, "Oh it can't be scientifically proven that Events A, B, C would not have occurred if I had not tried to IM them to happen."

8. My response would be - who do you need to convince in any direction, dear Markus? Only yourself. If you succeed, but are not convinced, then try again and do something more ambitious. If you succeed again, but are still not convinced, then try again, and again and again

9. ... until, perhaps, like me, you have tripled your annual income in three years, or done something else which you personally consider really amazing.

10. If you still cannot convince yourself then, oh well, what the heck. Just sit back and enjoy your tripled annual income. How bad could that be?

As for me, I'm just gonna experiment a bit more with LOA, because it's fun. I have already doubled my investment portfolio in one year (from less than $100,000 to slightly more than $200,000). And the intention I'm now manifesting is to more than double it again, in 2007, from $200,000 to $500,000. You can go to my blog and read my entries, and you can even come repeatedly to my blog in the course of 2007, to see if I'm succeeding or not. Feel free to laugh, if I'm not.

But if you want to be really constructive, just go and run your own experiments. You are the best person to convince yourself. Unless you're too chicken of course, haha.

And remember - when you succeed, you don't even need to come back here and tell us. So don't worry about me or anyone else laughing at you and saying, "I told you so! I told you so!"

[Acting Like Godot]

By the way, just to elaborate on what I meant about doing your own experiments to convince yourself either way, here's an excerpt from my own blog:

2007 shall be the year of my Great Experiment. I shall set huge goals for myself. They should be so huge that it would appear impossible for me to attain them through normal means.

Except that I do not intend to employ normal means. That's where the experiment begins.

So you see, dear Markus, I'm doing an experiment too. As I see it - what is the worst that could happen? At the end of 2007, I would feel rather foolish about myself. Ok, I could live with that.

What is the best that could happen? Ahhhhhh. It will be .... ABSOLUTELY AWESOME.

[icesar]

You know, come to think of it, I have found myself being less compassionate lately. I acknowledge that we are in our current situation largely by our own choices, but thinking like this has led me to be less compassionate towards others' problems. My first thought is usually something like "Ok, what did they do to attract this into their life?" How do you get past this?

[Angela]

Nicketas, I hadn't seen that post, and just went back and read it. Thanks.

In that post, Steve refers to skepticism as a mindset that can be self-limiting in a subjective reality model. I get it. and that ruthless defensiveness of that mindset manifests a continual mindset of ruthless defensiveness. d'oh.

Also in that article, Steve mentioned that skepticism is a useful tool for, and was originally used for, resisting dogma. In that regard, I think it's well placed here, because I see that a tendency towards dogmatic adoption seems to take place throughout these threads. LOA, and other experiments and tools that the P's have played with, is fun and creative and experiential. It's not "The Truth."

Then again, I am manifesting a Norma Rae mindset lately. "No Dogma!" and I appreciate people like Markus74 for their relentless puppy-like questioning. They should not be whacked by a rolled-up newspaper.