Is The Secret aka LoA Offensive?

[Radical]

After recently watching The Secret on DVD, I have to say some of the claims could be considered very offensive!

For example, The Secret claims that every problem in your life, or any negative thing that has ever happened to you, was somehow manifested into your life by your own thoughts. In other words, everything bad that has ever happened to you or will ever happen to you, (regardless of other peoples actions) is all your own fault.

It even goes as far as claiming that people who get cancer or people who have been involved in serious accidents, attracted these things into their lives via their negative thoughts. IMO this is even worse than belief in a supernatural god, at least religion shows people compassion!

Also, this kind of thinking has the potential to cause people serious harm! People who are seriously ill might stop taking treatment or medication, believing that positive thoughts alone are the answer to all their prayers.

It also suggests that every attempt at solving one of the worlds problems, i.e. terrorism, hunger, poverty etc (causes people have died for) has all just been a waste of time and energy. Instead it suggests we simply think positive thoughts, in the hope that the universe will somehow magically solve all our problems and make all our dreams come true... you can't be serious?

Does anyone else find this offensive?

[Mr. Punch]

Yes, it is definitely offensive and cruel when taken to that extreme.

It can be seen as the opposite of the age old theodicé problem within religions; if God is good then how come there is so much evil in this world? In other words, where all the responsibility for states and affairs in the world used to lay on a deity, it is now in the hands of the individual.

I guess the fierce believers in the LOA don't practice acceptance at all, they probably view it as a weakness. So the LOA is really not that spiritual in the sense that it eventually leads to the extreme selfcentered new-ageism. Which is just overblown egotism dressed up in pretty words.

Bix has been doing a lot of LOA bashing recently and I can defintely follow his trail. But at the same time, if you approach it with caution and don't let it go to the extreme, like some of the people on the Larry King show - the woman was particularly nasty with her remarks on bipolar - and you get a grip on the fact that it is some rather simple and plain truths, it holds value.

So I am both intrigued and skeptic about the LOA.

[Radical]

Maybe we should stop wasting our time helping out impoverished nations and their starving children? Maybe we should stop funding research for cancer and other incurable diseases? Maybe we should stop fighting terrorism, let the terrorists kill our citizens and turn our country into a pile of dust?

Instead lets all think 'happy thoughts' and sprinkle fairy dust over our heads.

PS I'm being sarcastic.

[Athena]

That premise in 'The Secret' is really disturbing--

it's trying to take LoA and apply it to EVERYthing in a blanket fashion, which disorts it and puts it where it shouldn't be

LoA, like many principles, works in SOME instances, but certainly does not explain everything. There are definitely other forces at work in the world to explain many of those situations, NOT LoA.

===

another related, and very disturbing suggestion from a writer/ 'medical intuitive' named Caroline Myss, who said that those with diseases are suffering because of bad karma. She related a story about a young boy taken to a mystic by his mother, who was told that the boy committed some wrong in his past life, and was suffering now because of it.
This is SOOO wrong and a very dangerous claim to make (it totally turned me off of her writing, which has quite a negative style anyways).

===

I think many writers, either in science, religion, spirituality, etc, like to take THEIR principles from THEIR field and try to apply it to explain EVERY situation or phenomenon in the world. It doesn't work like that. There are many forces and laws, in each dimension, physical, spiritual, that are govered by laws of science, logic, or spirit, etc.. that work on different levels. When we're learning about what principles govern what situations, we have to learn to find the balances between the information that is coming from each source.. (and try not to be offended by the extremists with distorted information.)

[Dating Specialist]

Originally Posted by Athena

That premise in 'The Secret' is really disturbing--

it's trying to take LoA and apply it to EVERYthing in a blanket fashion, which disorts it and puts it where it shouldn't be

LoA, like many principles, works in SOME instances, but certainly does not explain everything. There are definitely other forces at work in the world to explain many of those situations, NOT LoA.

Athena, I agree with you. We all should practice our own discernment to know which are the best strategies to use under various circumstances. Extremists ideologies tend to be provocative, like this case for example.

At the same time, I do agree that positive thoughts are very powerful. Mind intoxication can be the most fatal poison one can self-feed into one's mechanism. I believe in the Self-Fulfilling Prophecy, but not to the extent of negative thoughts leading to cancer.

Then again, if one is poisoning his/her own mind with all the negative thoughts, it does indirectly affects his/her energy and aura, which will find its way into his mental health, which then infiltrates into his physical health.

Positive thoughts and a strong-iron are boosters to cure a disease, together with the appropriate treatment.

[Andy]

LoA or even subjective reality can be misused really easily if the possible consequences (pros/cons) aren't fully thought out. I find that adjusting subjective reality-ish beliefs such that they're also beneficial (that they'll "work" for you) in an objective reality format actually results in a better grasp of subjective reality, not to mention less delusion.

[Antarananda]

I briefly touched upon the limitations and fallacies of the LoA as a magical wish-fulfilling method in my post in the Karmic Debt thread.

Basically, putting into motion a certain thought or desire isn't always going to work in your life even if you put in strong, sincere emotion, and do it faithfully, without entertaining thoughts of failure; the reason is that if you have stockpiled a mountain of Karma counterproductive to that desire in this life and probably in numerous previous lives as well, and the time has come for it to bear fruit, then riches etc will not remain in your life. You will attract money only to watch it slip through your fingers. That's an extreme case, of course, but the Law of Karma is basically the Law of Attraction at work that your conscious mind doesn't perceive.

This is not to say that we should not make any effort towards greater happiness, or whatever your pure desires in life may be; all it means is that everyone will never become a Steve Pavlina or Joe Vitale or Bill Gates - those guys already had the samskaras (latent pre-programmed mental tendencies) to attract what they fairly easily did into their lives. Hard work and intent manifestation was only a small part of the equation, the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

As regards people "creating" their cancers etc, I would not be so simplistic and say that their thoughts alone attracted the disease, but it is true that "you" create "your" own destiny. It is never a genetic "accident" because "God" likes to play dice and you lost out in the cosmic lottery. As we sow, so do we reap. What goes around comes around. We always create our own suffering, whether consciously or unconsciously. So yes, we did attract those illnesses into our present lives. Our thoughts and habits in this life may have been perfect, but that doesn't mean we didn't come into this life with engrams in our subtle bodies already ready to be expressed.

Here's the kicker though: we are all one collective consciousness, the same source manifested as different bodies, like holographic images of an underlying formless reality. So, in essence, by wishing health, happiness for ourselves, and functioning from a pure loving consciousness, we wish it for the entire universe. Hence, "love thy neighbor as thyself"; because loving him/her is loving yourself also, and in turn loving the universe.


Of course, all what I have postulated presupposes the theory of reincarnation

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by Radical

The Secret claims that every problem in your life, or any negative thing that has ever happened to you, was somehow manifested into your life by your own thoughts. In other words, everything bad that has ever happened to you or will ever happen to you, (regardless of other peoples actions) is all your own fault.

It even goes as far as claiming that people who get cancer or people who have been involved in serious accidents, attracted these things into their lives via their negative thoughts.

I haven't seen The Secret, although I've been intending to see it (or I guess I haven't been since I haven't seen it yet ), but I do believe that people have complete control over their lives. Everything that has happened to you is ultimately a result of some action that you've taken. For instance if you go out and get hit by a car, it's your fault. The car didn't ride into your house to hit you, you went out there and put yourself in front of the car. Since you can only perform an action because a thought triggered it, your thought (of wanting to go somewhere in this case) ultimately was responsible for the outcome.

That example is probably not quite what The Secret is trying to convey but perhaps it makes more sense analytically. Personally I believe that one thing is definitely true -- that your current situation, whatever it is, is a direct result of the sum of the actions you've taken up to this point in your life (I heard this first spoken by Brian Tracy on a tape set I have). Since every action you've taken was a result of a thought you had, your thoughts are ultimately responsible for what happens to you in life. I don't know if your thoughts can cause you to get cancer, but if you have thoughts that lead to actions that cause self-destructive behavior then you certainly can cause your own death (by overdosing on drugs for instance).

Whatever the reality may be in terms of the law of attraction, the most important and empowering thing I've learned so far is that I'm responsible for what happens to me in life. If your life is not working out, you can blame other people, you can blame your financial situation, mental/physical disabilities, even God. Or you can take responsibility for your life and make the best of what you've got. And I think that's really what the law of attraction is about -- taking responsibility. If you decide that you can't achieve anything, you won't. It's a very easy road that many people take. But if you decide that you can achieve great things, then the universe will provide you with all the help you need.

[Antarananda]

Well said, Baltar! We're in agreement.

[Akashic_Librarian]

I don't think it is offensive at all. I think though that you have missed the point of what it is saying. You have to understand that everything is spawned of the SAME consciousness there are no objective parts to life. Its all subjective.

[Alvin]

LoA extremisim?! Are we seeing the beginnings of Law of Attraction terrorists?!

Just kidding!

[songwriter]

I'm gonna say it again (I think I should put this in my signature). I don't agree at all with The Secret, the standard Subjetive Reality model and that you are responsible for everything in your life... and in the world!.
I believe in IM but in a different way, everyone's got his intentions, etc...

[Michelle]

Taking responsibility for one's own life does not cancel out receiving or giving help and compassion. Responsibility also says nothing about the value or worth of a person, nor does it label events as "good" or "bad".

What it does is give someone in a dire situation power. Power to help themselves, get out, get help, whatever. Someone with cancer can say "I don't like what is happening to me, but I accept it, it is my experience". This takes a person from being victimized by something uncontrollable to being in control and powerful.

[Radical]

Originally Posted by Michelle

What it does is give someone in a dire situation power. Power to help themselves, get out, get help, whatever. Someone with cancer can say "I don't like what is happening to me, but I accept it, it is my experience". This takes a person from being victimized by something uncontrollable to being in control and powerful.

In other words it gives people false hope?

I don't have a personal vendetta against LoA or anything, in fact I think it's an intriguing concept (which may have scientific grounds). However, taken to the extreme it has the capacity to cause more harm than good.

[Erki]

Originally Posted by Radical

In other words it gives people false hope?

I don't have a personal vendetta against LoA or anything, in fact I think it's an intriguing concept (which may have scientific grounds). However, taken to the extreme it has the capacity to cause more harm than good.

I don't think any hope is false. A hope can only seem to be false to the one who's not hoping, i.e. the hopeless.

Also, anything can make harm if taken to the very extreme. Science being one of them as well.

[Richard_Todd]

Originally Posted by Radical

It also suggests that every attempt at solving one of the worlds problems, i.e. terrorism, hunger, poverty etc (causes people have died for) has all just been a waste of time and energy. Instead it suggests we simply think positive thoughts, in the hope that the universe will somehow magically solve all our problems and make all our dreams come true... you can't be serious?

I saw the movie, and have read online and offline LoA material. I don't remember any of them saying that you shouldn't do anything. They don't claim you are a genie that can just blink or twitch your nose to make things happen. Sometimes it may work that way, and other times, not.

In my view, the most important thing to understand when debating these things is: one event + two sets of beliefs == two completely different experiences. A person's reality is seen through the lens of their beliefs.

So, Bob believes that he can stop his cancer, and let's say it does stop. Bob claims it's due to LoA. Joe says, no, I've run some tests and found this medical fluke that could explain it. Bob says, I accept your explanation, and it was set in motion by my intention. Joe internally labels Bob a nut, and wonders why Bob doesn't also stop terrorism while he's at it. Whether you're Bob or Joe, you're still 100% right, because your beliefs make you so.

[Radical]

Originally Posted by Erki

I don't think any hope is false. A hope can only seem to be false to the one who's not hoping, i.e. the hopeless.

Also, anything can make harm if taken to the very extreme. Science being one of them as well.

I would rather face up to reality than have false hope. I value truth too much.

Also, LoA extremists would no doubt claim the Jews somehow brought the holocaust upon themselves, or people involved in accidents can merely think their way out of hospital. Science on the other hand provides practical solutions to help rebuild peoples lives.

[Radical]

Originally Posted by Richard_Todd

Whether you're Bob or Joe, you're still 100% right, because your beliefs make you so.

This is where I disagree. I believe in a world outside of my own mind - I don't buy in to the idea of subjective reality.

[Frans]

Originally Posted by Radical

LoA extremists would no doubt claim the Jews somehow brought the holocaust upon themselves

"When 'Hitler', 'holocaust' or 'nazi' is being used in a forum thread, it's time to lock that thread."

Anonymous Webmaster (21st Century)

[Erki]

Originally Posted by Radical

I would rather face up to reality than have false hope. I value truth too much.

Also, LoA extremists would no doubt claim the Jews somehow brought the holocaust upon themselves, or people involved in accidents can merely think their way out of hospital. Science on the other hand provides practical solutions to help rebuild peoples lives.

Well, that guy in "The Secret" who was told by doctors that he'd be paralyzed for life still recovered.

And what is the truth anyway?

[Radical]

Originally Posted by Frans

"When 'Hitler', 'holocaust' or 'nazi' is being used in a forum thread, it's time to lock that thread."

Anonymous Webmaster (21st Century)

Grow up and stop trolling.

[Radical]

Originally Posted by Erki

And what is the truth anyway?

I don't know, but I'm sure truth exists. Otherwise everything is one big delusion, which I cannot accept.

[Antarananda]

Originally Posted by Radical

I would rather face up to reality than have false hope. I value truth too much.

Your "truth" often seems to turn into dogma. Try an experiment with your own personal consciousness. Meditate sincerely on the sense "I am". Sit in silence and follow the feeling while disregarding all other thoughts, feelings and impressions to its core, for a year, and then come back to us with how your perception of truth has dramatically changed.


What is your personal truth, and what is the underlying Reality of the universe (as recognized by an enlightened one) are two very different things. I have hardcore scientific training and education (in medicine), yet I recognize and accept its limitations.

"A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open" --Frank Zappa.

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by Radical

In other words it gives people false hope?

I don't have a personal vendetta against LoA or anything, in fact I think it's an intriguing concept (which may have scientific grounds). However, taken to the extreme it has the capacity to cause more harm than good.

Nah. Not false hope. Many people who are going to die from something, feel that they are dying. The point is there are two choices:

- To die as a victim. In misery, hopeless, unhappy and abused with the belief that the world is against you.

- To die in acceptance and peace, having taken responsibility for one's own life, treatment, etc. To own your own death experience.

Don't know about you, but I would rather belong to group 2.

[Radical]

Originally Posted by Antarananda

Sit in silence and follow the feeling while disregarding all other thoughts, feelings and impressions to its core, for a year, and then come back to us with how your perception of truth has dramatically changed.

I think I'll pass on that one.

[Ibanez]

Originally Posted by Frans

"When 'Hitler', 'holocaust' or 'nazi' is being used in a forum thread, it's time to lock that thread."

Anonymous Webmaster (21st Century)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

[Richard_Todd]

Originally Posted by Radical

I don't know, but I'm sure truth exists. Otherwise everything is one big delusion, which I cannot accept.

Is it that everything is a delusion, or is it that there doesn't have to be just one truth? I mean, forget about the more new-agey flavor of subjective reality. Physics from Einstein on says that two observers pretty much never exactly agree on what they witness. It doesn't get in the way of everyday life, because most things aren't moving near the speed of light, and we don't have to agree too precisely on the exact location or timing of things in order to get by.

[wolfgang]

To entertain the idea of subjective reality does not mean the illusion of the separate ego view is not going to be experienced.

I'm suggesting that you can have both, that they are not mutually exclusive but more like a duality. Many spiritual writings address that we feel separate from the one of everything and suffer because of this. Isn't that the fall from Eden? The Buddhist's illusion of an existing separate self? But while we are running around perceiving with our ego and carry on about things outside of ourselves as separate from us, we are also one with everything completly and so much so that we really can't completly comprehend that in our limited minds.

I get upset by the extreme case of LoA, that someone with cancer is doing something wrong to be that way. I had an Aunt that died of lung cancer and didn't smoke and was very giving in her ways, voluteer type, and had strong Jesus faith. I haven't talked in depth with my brother about her, but he said her faith was stronger even more by going through that. It's a curious thing and I'm out of my element to see her point of view, since I don't have that specific Christ feeling. Although there's the saying "God works in mysterious ways". And at some level I can stretch the idea that there's way too much that influences how our lives go that we can't perceive or understand, so attracting something or having an experience becomes manifest based on a spectrum that we only feel a small band of normally. So I get to the thought that IM/LoA ideas get me more aligned with the whole of the spectrum, to realize I'm really the one with all that is - instead of a separate ego with worldly desires.

When I start thinking about subjective and objective reality models I also find fate versus freewill in the mix. Where we have an illusion of being separate, we feel we have lots of freewill to operate in. Then if I shift to being one with all that is, it's more of a determined/fated view since it just is and is without time so doesn't have room for freewill or choices? Like, is it ultimately that "being one with all that is", just exists and has no certain way to our illusion of the ego and doesn't really have any choices by it's nature of just existing? Thoughts in progess there and maybe off topic by bringing in fate/freewill stuff.

[Radical]

Originally Posted by Richard_Todd

Is it that everything is a delusion, or is it that there doesn't have to be just one truth?

I believe in a Theory of Everything (TOE).

So did Einstein.

[Brutha]

For example, The Secret claims that every problem in your life, or any negative thing that has ever happened to you, was somehow manifested into your life by your own thoughts. In other words, everything bad that has ever happened to you or will ever happen to you, (regardless of other peoples actions) is all your own fault.

You should keep in mind that "you" does mean something different in the intention/manifestation mindset.

It doesn't necessary mean that the person that is in hospital and has cancer has it because of his thought.
He has the cancer because of my thoughts, because I am the only consciousness.

I don't know, but I'm sure truth exists. Otherwise everything is one big delusion, which I cannot accept.

That is the point, Intention/Manifestation says that no objective truth exists. That truth is subjective.

The point that you can't accept that is fine.
But, it is just one of your beliefs. Other people don't have that belief and that leads them to belief in Intention/Manifestation.

But the thing that your signature suggets is something different, it is: "Question Everything!"

Originally Posted by Radical

Grow up and stop trolling.

The point is that it is the accepted internet netiquette that you using the holocaust as an argument, when you can make your case without using it, is trolling.
The reason is that you use the argument because it is emotional charged. In our society every one is taught that you have to feel bad about the holocaust, that makes the discussion emotional instead of factual which is bad.