Garbage, all of it.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by sadavis00

When you believe in stuff like this, you go into a somewhat half-awake, hypnotized, OTHER-worldly, suggestible state, a state which takes constant attention to sustain, and doesn't really improve your living in THIS world.

Calling me a loser, are you. I can trace the exact date on which I started to use the LOA in earnest. In the 15 months since then:

1. I received a 82% salary increase;

2. I spoke at an international conference organised by a global association representing 852 financial institutions in 56 countries;

3. I attracted half a dozen job opportunities even before sending out a single resume;

4. I got promoted and received the highest bonus of my life (February 2007);

5. I left anyway, took up a new job with even more pay and became one of the youngest persons ever to hold the title of "Director" in that organisation (an international bank with about 70,000 employees worldwide);

6. I manifested my little kids to be smart, and suddenly in February 2007, the kindergarten principal calls up and insists that my daughter is so bright that we must put her in a class for older kids (as for my son, who was attending another school, the principal suggested that we send him for psychological testing, to see if he is some kind of genius);

7. Between October 2006 and now, my investment portfolio more than doubled in value;

8. Lest I be accused of using the LOA only for my own selfish purposes, I also manifested an opportunity to raise awareness of certain social issues. I ended up speaking at a conference on such issues, alongside with prominent academics and politicians in my country;

9. I actively ran a blog on social issues. It recently gained official national recognition from a government body for its "lasting national, historical, research and cultural values".

10. Literature students in my country also started studying my creative works;

So Sadavis00, do you think that I managed to "improve my living in this world"?

I'd write more ... but I need to rush off now for a Christmas party .... Use your imagination - LOA can be used for a wide range of different purposes. I haven't even started telling you about the REALLY fun things and REALLY weird and the REALLY useful things you can do with the LOA, in your day-to-day life.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by mochamajesty

Paul,

It isn't just you. I have just completed the Power of NOW and I have plenty of unanswered questions. Your previous post describes my experience exactly. I am left with plenty of unanswered questions, and I also thought tht he was high when he wrote it. LOL

I guess A New Earth is next on my list.

ROFL. Yeah... I think he was high on something. Even if it is spirituality, he was on something.

Don't get me wrong, I find him very inspirational and the material in the book is gold. It's just that I found the style of writing in the book to follow a different path of questioning/answering than I would.

For every question he answered, it lead me to another question. Instead of answering that one, it went into a tangent which was answered but left me with yet another question, and so on and so on. There's only so many unanswered questions my brain can handle

His new book is MUCH better in my opinion. THEN, when you go back to The Power of Now, it all makes sense afterwords. Perhaps the reason I had trouble is because the material was fairly new to me. Kind of like when people first read a book on LoA.

[Pegasus]

Originally Posted by impaul99

The Power of Now is so fricken confusing for me. I seriously think Eckhart was on something when he wrote it. It's brilliant, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't written in an easy to understand manner ...It's almost like he skips around too much...

I thought I was the only one who wasn’t into The Power of Now. It’s mentioned frequently in these forums. I listened to the audiobook. It was too “out there” for me. I prefer something more concrete and down-to-earth. Maybe reading the book versus listening to it would have provided a better experience for me. Reading tends to be a more pro-active activity than passive listening. I admit I have the attention span of an earthworm.

I just started reading Think and Grow Rich. Hopefully I'll get more out of that one.

...

[Spiritual]

Originally Posted by Pegasus

I thought I was the only one who wasn’t into The Power of Now. It’s mentioned frequently in these forums. I listened to the audiobook. It was too “out there” for me. I prefer something more concrete and down-to-earth. Maybe reading the book versus listening to it would have provided a better experience for me. Reading tends to be a more pro-active activity than passive listening. I admit I have the attention span of an earthworm.

I just started reading Think and Grow Rich. Hopefully I'll get more out of that one.

...

I totally agree with Impaul, I first got the Power of the Now book, man I couldn't finish it! By the way, none of my family could actually, it didn't make sense. You need to have certain insights/knowledge to able to understand it properly.

But then I got A New Earth, and that one is just amazing! It explains everything in easy to understand language, and a very PRACTICAL use of it aswell. So pegasus, you should definitely try A New Earth.
Also think and grow rich is NOTHING like A New Earth. A New Earth is about understanding your true identity, whereas Think And Grow Rich is, in my opinion, more about conditioning the ego to get abundance.

[Pegasus]

Originally Posted by Spiritual

So pegasus, you should definitely try A New Earth.
Also think and grow rich is NOTHING like A New Earth. A New Earth is about understanding your true identity, whereas Think And Grow Rich is, in my opinion, more about conditioning the ego to get abundance.

I'll read them both!

[Spiritual]

Originally Posted by Pegasus

I'll read them both!

Keep us posted about what you got from them!

[danman85]

It is a trend....to have doubters every once in a while to make us question our beliefs. Most times, it is those doubters that reassure us, refine and strengthen our beliefs.

[maryelyn]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

8. Lest I be accused of using the LOA only for my own selfish purposes,

you speak of this as though it were a bad thing.

do you think that it would be a bad thing?

[Jennihul]

Ok, notwithstanding the Tolle hijack, you guys are so inspirational when faced with LOA criticism. Good job.

I'm starting to agree that there are some people for whom this just isn't going to work. Maybe not in this incarnation for them.

Then again, the LOA works best when there is a little 'contrast' to compare what you don't want to what you DO want. As long as the contrast isn't your main focus. So maybe on this higher level, we are getting the 'contrast' from the naysayers just to reinforce our excitment in own growing abilities.

It's working for me.


Jennifer

[sadavis00]

Acting Like Godot,

I have essentially no problem with thinking that the "universe" is "on my side", especially given that there is no proof for thinking otherwise, similar to why a person can retain a belief in God, there is simply no proof to suggest the contrary. Like religion, this belief may provide some comfort and support.

However, retaining this belief is more a decision , the belief is not founded on some proof, because essentially it can't be proven, similar to how God can't be proven.

The main gripe with this stuff is that if I "fail", I am supposed to take "responsibilty" for my "failure". Because I am not "doing it right". Question is, is there any "it" at all, does my decision to believe something justify something's objective existence, such that there is anything like "wrong" or "right"?

On a practical note, your success story made me think, because of course there no stronger attraction than success. I am going to try this stuff out , but I will not pay one cent to any of the irritatingly happy, ever-smiling, doped up, other-worldly, frilly new-age gurus-- scam-artists peddling a simple idea, a religion, for profit. Really, it is the stupid manner in which these people advertise their products that turns me off, it all seems to be targetted at a more docile, wide-eyed suggestible, need-a-break-from-this-life, low IQ, "people of faith in a world without god" type of people.

You seem fairly intelligent and your results are anecdotal, but hard to ignore, so I'll try this LOA, anycase, it doesn't really contradict anything I believe in with proof, so its not that big a leap. Might as well believe the "universe is on my side", than "it is out to get me", or "there is no such thing as the universe".

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by sadavis00

However, retaining this belief is more a decision , the belief is not founded on some proof, because essentially it can't be proven, similar to how God can't be proven.

Actually it can be proven (or tested). You simply have to select a bunch of intentions and go try to manifest them.

(a) If you get no results, you can either conclude:

(i) you were not manifesting correctly (in which case you would refine / adjust your methods and try again, effectively re-running the experiment); or

(ii) LOA doesn't work, or doesn't work for you.

(b) If you do get results, you can either conclude:

(i) LOA exists and works; or

(ii) your results could have been mere coincidences or otherwise attributable to other factors, as opposed to the LOA (in which case, you would select another bunch of intentions and try again to manifest them, effectively re-running the experiment).

Theoretically, in many cases, it should be possible to find ways to investigate the possible effects of various "Thought Affects Reality" theories, under quite tightly-controlled conditions. Examples would be (1) Dean Radin's successful replication, under double-blind conditions, of Masaru Emoto's "Thought Affects the Molecular Structure of Water" theory; (2) the experiments run by Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research lab; (3) Dr Guang Yue's experiments on whether regularly imagining a gym workout will increase the strength of your bicep muscles (the answer is yes); (4) the Rosenthal experiment (where teachers are tricked into believing that certain children have been tested to be bright, and certain other children have been tested to be dumb; the teachers' false beliefs start transforming into reality, affecting the kids IQ scores eight months later)/

But then I personally find it's more interesting to manifest what I really want for my own life (rather than these academic things like whether thoughts can affect the molecular structure of water crystals).

[Frans]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Calling me a loser, are you. I can trace the exact date on which I started to use the LOA in earnest. In the 15 months since then:

1. I received a 82% salary increase;

2. I spoke at an international conference organised by a global association representing 852 financial institutions in 56 countries;

3. I attracted half a dozen job opportunities even before sending out a single resume;

4. I got promoted and received the highest bonus of my life (February 2007);

5. I left anyway, took up a new job with even more pay and became one of the youngest persons ever to hold the title of "Director" in that organisation (an international bank with about 70,000 employees worldwide);

6. I manifested my little kids to be smart, and suddenly in February 2007, the kindergarten principal calls up and insists that my daughter is so bright that we must put her in a class for older kids (as for my son, who was attending another school, the principal suggested that we send him for psychological testing, to see if he is some kind of genius);

7. Between October 2006 and now, my investment portfolio more than doubled in value;

8. Lest I be accused of using the LOA only for my own selfish purposes, I also manifested an opportunity to raise awareness of certain social issues. I ended up speaking at a conference on such issues, alongside with prominent academics and politicians in my country;

9. I actively ran a blog on social issues. It recently gained official national recognition from a government body for its "lasting national, historical, research and cultural values".

10. Literature students in my country also started studying my creative works;

So Sadavis00, do you think that I managed to "improve my living in this world"?

I'd write more ... but I need to rush off now for a Christmas party .... Use your imagination - LOA can be used for a wide range of different purposes. I haven't even started telling you about the REALLY fun things and REALLY weird and the REALLY useful things you can do with the LOA, in your day-to-day life.

Acting Like Godot, I know you want to hide your real identity, but by saying in your blog that you wanted to win the GPA "again", it was very easy to find out in which country you live and what your real name is.

If you would have revealed your true identity, I would have believed you earlier.

[Acting Like Godot]

Actually those blogs are/were really for my personal records. I used to set my blog settings such that only I could access the blog (with a password). Later I gave access to a small number of other people (who were interested in finding out more about LOA). Finally I just opened up the blogs to anybody ... if you stumble upon them, you must have attracted them into your reality for some reason ....

[MrsCogan]

Originally Posted by daveangeles

Hahaha, what angers me is the common response that I am creating "resistance" and that somewhere I secretly don't believe I deserve to be all right financially.

Trust me, there is no resistance. I would love to have prosperity in my life and I deserve it as much as the next guy. It just isn't coming. I would do a rain dance right now if I thought it would change anything.

If it's working well for you, then I'm glad to hear that. Maybe it is just dependent on the individual. Makes sense: not everyone can be a master pianist, for example. Why assume that everyone can use LOA?

I agree that intention-manifestation and The Secret are all hogwash with earflaps. (I have a very foul mouth and I'm working on it.) They are based on an ignorance of how the world works. In physics negatives attract positives and vice versa. The yin-yang symbol is much more indicative of the real world than the medieval sympathetic magic of "if I think about it, it will drop in my lap."

There is an objective reality out there that has nothing to do with us. It is our duty to use our brains to comprehend that reality and learn how it works. It will completely ignore any amount of wishful thinking we engage in.

And I don't see Steve ignoring objective reality in his essays, though I haven't read his intention-manifestation material yet. You have decide what you want in life and make goals and action plans. But then you have to get up off the couch and work for what you want. THAT will cause things to manifest, not just wishing for it or "asking the universe" for it. The universe isn't standing around waiting to take your order. If anybody tells you it is, take a deep breath. That scent is the smell of snake oil.

[Frans]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Actually those blogs are/were really for my personal records. I used to set my blog settings such that only I could access the blog (with a password). Later I gave access to a small number of other people (who were interested in finding out more about LOA). Finally I just opened up the blogs to anybody ... if you stumble upon them, you must have attracted them into your reality for some reason ....

I wanted to show you that you cannot keep your identity secret on the Internet, even if you vent your personal opinions anonymously on a blog or a forum.

IMO, anonymous testimonials are worthless, so if you would have posted your LOA experiences here under your real name, you could have convinced more people to practice I-M.

[mochamajesty]

It amazes me that some of the same people who dismiss LOA readily believe in a God who may or may not exist, either. There is no proof of God's existance except a book that tells us so. Sort of like LOA, right? The naysayers are in fact proving that LOA works. How? Well, if you do not think that LOA works, then it won't.

For those people who insist that action is required, what about people who have worked their entire lives and still end up miserable and with nothing? They got up off the couch, but they still do not have what they want. Seems like something is missing there.

The reason that I believe so strongly in LOA is that I was the person who worked very hard, did all the "right" things, and still woke up miserable each and every day. What LOA taught me is that in the end, it is about self-worth. If I do not believe that I deserve any of the things that I am working so hard for, then they will not come, no matter how much I work for them.

So..I still get up every morning, go to the same job (so I am not using LOA to have money fall into my lap...although I am not dismissing it, either ), and do the same things that I was doing before I was conscious of LOA. The difference is that I love myself. I go to work with a smile on my face. I get up every morning and ask, "How can I create my day?" Instead of "Oh geez, what does the day have in store for me NOW?"

So...I guess you could say that LOA has made me take responsibility for my life. Instead of praying to some God "up there" , I realize that I have control over my thoughts and feelings...and my life. Sounds good to me.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by MrsCogan

There is an objective reality out there that has nothing to do with us.

Oh, don't be so unscientific, Mrs Cogan.

""Some physicists would prefer to come back to the idea of an objective real world whose smallest parts exist objectively in the same sense as stones or trees exist independently of whether we observe them. This however is impossible." - Werner Heisenberg, Nobel Laureate for Physics

"The doctrine that the world is made up of objects whose existence is independent of human consciousness turns out to be in conflict with Quantum Mechanics and with facts established by experiment." - Bernard d'Espagnat, former director of the Laboratory of Theoretical Physics and Elementary Particles at the University of Paris XI (Orsay).

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Frans

IMO, anonymous testimonials are worthless, so if you would have posted your LOA experiences here under your real name, you could have convinced more people to practice I-M.

I'm happy to share my personal LOA experiences with people who are interested to know more about LOA. But it is not really my mission to convince more people to practise IM. LOA isn't a religion which imposes an obligation on any LOA user to go "convert" new LOA users.

There are already many people in the world who talk about LOA and use their real names. You know - Steve Pavlina, Esther Hicks, Oprah Winfrey, Joe Vitale, Deepak Chopra, for example. My own blogs are really more for my personal records than anything else.

[Lil Chris]

Originally Posted by MrsCogan

I agree that intention-manifestation and The Secret are all hogwash with earflaps. (I have a very foul mouth and I'm working on it.) They are based on an ignorance of how the world works. In physics negatives attract positives and vice versa. The yin-yang symbol is much more indicative of the real world than the medieval sympathetic magic of "if I think about it, it will drop in my lap."

There is an objective reality out there that has nothing to do with us. It is our duty to use our brains to comprehend that reality and learn how it works. It will completely ignore any amount of wishful thinking we engage in.

And I don't see Steve ignoring objective reality in his essays, though I haven't read his intention-manifestation material yet. You have decide what you want in life and make goals and action plans. But then you have to get up off the couch and work for what you want. THAT will cause things to manifest, not just wishing for it or "asking the universe" for it. The universe isn't standing around waiting to take your order. If anybody tells you it is, take a deep breath. That scent is the smell of snake oil.

You have decide what you want in life and make goals and action plans. But then you have to get up off the couch and work for what you want. THAT will cause things to manifest, not just wishing for it or "asking the universe" for it. The universe isn't standing around waiting to take your order.

Perhaps, but no amount of arguing is going to convince you otherwise...

You're absolutely right, for you (and the others who agree with you).
Truths are individual, there is no right or wrong for anyone... While what you say is true for the non-believers, what Steve, ALG, impaul99, myself, cylon and others says is true for the believers. This is based on experiences, not just wishful thinking as you put it...

If anybody tells you it is, take a deep breath. That scent is the smell of snake oil

The way I see this being true, is only if they're trying to sell you something.
I don't sell anything related to PD (personal Development), I'm just looking for my truth in what reality is... Just because I haven't experienced something that Steve or anyone else suggests as a reality, doesn't NOT make it true, the only thing that would be true in their suggestion is that I haven't experienced it yet... But here's the thing, I have experienced or caught "glimpses" of my thoughts being directly connected to the external events in which I refer to as reality.

Look,
I have had experiences that to me are quite unexplainable (telepathy being one of them) and yes, some are really out there.

Some people here in the USA believe that we have the greatest medical community in the world, even though they're not actually curing many diseases (yet they still believe it)... Why...? Perhaps they see something that I don't currently see yet (perhaps that's the snake oil you refer to)... The rates of curing cancer are spotty at best, some get cured and some don't... Yet, some consciously get LOA to work and some don't, based on what I'm observing...

But, your implication that I'm gullible is offensive... So I have the choice, I can believe what Steve suggests or because you think your absolutely right well I must believe you then (because you're always right aren't you... Yes you are, you're always right) and those who don't believe you are wrong, aren't they...

[Acting Like Godot]

Hey Lil Chris:

I wrote about you on my blog once. About the time I did a psychic diagnosis on you long-distance (btw, folks, I have never seen Lil Chris before). The link is here.

Unfortunately I haven't practised all that psychic healing stuff much since then.

[Lil Chris]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Hey Lil Chris:

I wrote about you on my blog once. About the time I did a psychic diagnosis on you long-distance (btw, folks, I have never seen Lil Chris before). The link is here.

Unfortunately I haven't practised all that psychic healing stuff much since then.

Thanks,
I had no idea you did that, I will check it out today (all good things right...?)

If you ever wnat to try some psychic healing I'm totally game (I have plenty to work on)

[MrsCogan]

Originally Posted by Lil Chris

Perhaps, but no amount of arguing is going to convince you otherwise...

You're absolutely right, for you (and the others who agree with you).
Truths are individual, there is no right or wrong for anyone...

is that true for just you, or for everyone?

The way I see this being true, is only if they're trying to sell you something.

Most New Age people are trying to sell you something in case you hadn't noticed.

Some people here in the USA believe that we have the greatest medical community in the world, even though they're not actually curing many diseases (yet they still believe it)... Why...?

Have you ever heard of diphtheria? Have you ever seen a person sick with it? I haven't and I'm pushing 60 years old. Millions of women held their babies in their arms and watched them die of that horrible disease and now it's considered something historical like buggy whips and high-button shoes--along with scarlet fever, polio, typhoid fever, small pox and the plague. Plague once wiped out 2/3 of the population of Europe. Now when someone gets it they spend a few days in the hospital and it's so unusual it might make the evening news. How many lepers did Jesus cure? A dozen? Two dozen? Science found a way to cure them ALL.

HIV used to be a death sentence. When Magic Johnson was diagnosed HIV positive I cried because I thought the world was going to be robbed of that beautiful smile. Wrong. Modern medicine saved him and he's still going strong. HIV is now a chronic illness.

Perhaps they see something that I don't currently see yet (perhaps that's the snake oil you refer to)...

perhaps you've been fed a load of bull. Human lifespans have doubled in the last 100 years. Without modern medicine I would have been dead 20 years ago. Thanks anyway.

The rates of curing cancer are spotty at best, some get cured and some don't... Yet, some consciously get LOA to work and some don't, based on what I'm observing...

cancer cure rates are constantly growing. If I get a tumor I'm not going to light incense and chant. I'm going to a doctor. I might die anyway, but nobody gets out alive.

But, your implication that I'm gullible is offensive... So I have the choice, I can believe what Steve suggests or because you think your absolutely right well I must believe you then (because you're always right aren't you... Yes you are, you're always right) and those who don't believe you are wrong, aren't they...

yes!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by MrsCogan

You have decide what you want in life and make goals and action plans. But then you have to get up off the couch and work for what you want.

Hello, Mrs.Cogan. Welcome to you and your Newcomer Mandates! I don't begrudge you your point of view, but I'd like to let you know that in fact, I don't have to decide what I want in life, I don't have to make goals and action plans, and I don't even have to get up off the couch and work for what I want! Some of my most fun and rewarding work is done on my couch, as a matter of fact.

You are very welcome to your belief in these requirements in your life, you may be right, and thank you for sharing them, but they have nothing to do with me and creating a life I love.

I would like to invite you to try on a communication style that generates a space of freedom, as opposed to the Bossy Boots Operational Method (Bossy Boots' motto: "I'm right and you're wrong!") . Just to see how it goes.

Lots of love,
Angela

[dancer]

My gut feeling is MrsCogan is curious about LOA, otherwise she wouldn't waste her time here.

[Lil Chris]

And to think... You've had all the answers all along for everyone, stop the presses I think I've located GOD...

My point was that YOU are ALWAYS right, the point in which you are right with can always change (by you) and YOU will still always be right...

In your eyes I'm wrong, and that's fine... Because YOU are always right, and ALWAYS will be... Just like I believe that what I am saying is the truth and I believe I'm right...

As far as the finding cures thing, there is no money in curing people (so it's not in their best interest)... Yes, the medical community has cured some horrible diseases (most notably the ones that could potentially wipe out humanity). The rest they've managed to find a way to charge a monthly fee to make you comfortable living with it... YES, this is my current belief and when I am able to change this perhaps I will see many, many more cures...

[RT Wolf]

Main points:

- The belief in objective reality is not uncontestable, it is a position that needs to be examined critically and defended, not simply said to be accurate because everyone else believes it, becuase it has simply become naturalized in our society (ie made to seem natural and common sense).
- IM is not a totally uncontestable belief, either, but! It does have some proofs for it.
- To test IM, just start testing it yourself. You're the best person to judge this sort of thing anyway.
- Why are you resisting this so much? On all sides of the argument, I mean. Note the quotations in the middle of my post.

I'd rather side with the LoAers just cause they've taken the challenge to examine their fundamental beliefs about reality critically.

The person who came closest (IMO, since I'm not a practicing scientist) to an understanding of how the scientific method works (at least according to Popper) is sadavis. Scientific method cannot prove anything works, only disprove things. That's one of the reasons a claim like, Thoughts affect reality is so hard disprove, sorta like saying All men are mortal is hard to disprove, because you haven't observed all men. So, claims have to be falsifiable to be testable. If I take the claim that "thoughts don't affect reality outside of direct action", there is a shadow of doubt in that from the studies ALG posted, as well as in The Intention Experiment. Is it fool-proof evidence that LoA works? Not in my opinion, not yet, anyway, but it does make me question the basis of the way we assume reality works. Thus negatively giving some proof for the idea that thoughts do affect reality outside of direct action.

BTW, in physics there is a single attractor force, gravity, and as far as we know, there are no confirmed cases of gravity repelling.

Otherwise, many of us believe we've learned since growing up, things like "reality is objective" or that "thoughts can't do anything outside my own skull". The root of that belief, IMO, is Rene Descartes, especially in his Meditations on First Philosophy, in which I believe he makes some critical errors, which is fine because most philosophers do, however his beliefs became well integrated into our society and societal way of thinking, became "naturalized" and "truthified". One of the key errors, imo, was that Descartes was a substance dualist, which means that he drove a very strong line between the mind and its products and the physical world and its products, especially discounting the importance of the physical. I dunno about you, but that belief messed with me for a long time.

One cool thing about the meditations, though, is when he completely destroys his beliefs in everything in the first chapter. Then he proceeds to build it all up again (with certain holes, but it is a fascinating read, very esay to read, too, highly recommended).

I will post this link again, because no one seems to have indicated that they have read it:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...nd-resistance/

Resisting an idea emotionally and becoming defensive isn’t the same as disagreeing with an idea. If I tell you that I’m really 250 years old, you may dismiss me as a liar or an idiot, but my statement is unlikely to provoke your emotional resistance or make you defensive. You simply disagree, but you don’t resist. However, if I tell you that you look fat and should change your diet, that may indeed provoke some emotional resistance, depending on the degree to which that statement reflects back to you an area where you need to grow.

Resistance shows us where we need more conscious clarity. As you recognize and explore resistance in yourself and become more courageous in facing the unfaceable parts of your life, you will in fact become much more conscious and aware, which will increase your ability to face down other areas of resistance with greater success.

If anyone's interested, my main point of resistance was and still is with LoA that I'm afraid someone will come upto me and say I'm wrong or an idiot or what have you, that sort of just insulting, and just not like me as a person. Food for thought?

Some more food for thought:

Prove that someone in your life loves you. What is your reasoning, evidence and assumptions that lead you to that conclusions?
Prove that rationality is a good tool to use, but since we don't like things that prove themselves (circular arguments), prove rationality is teh awesome using irrational arguments. Even rationality is not uncontestable.

Basically what I want to say is that believing in an objective reality is not the "truth", it is in fact a position that needs to be defended. Just because everyone around you believes it, or that you grew up believing it doesn't mean that its true (depending on how you define truth, anyhoo). I'm not trying to prove LoA works here, just highlight that its much harder to dismiss it than you might think, because proving reality is objective is much harder than you think, and distinguished scientists and philosophers hold positions other than the objective one (as ALG noted). You would aslo want to look at the fact that LoA has been written about for over a hundred years at this point. Its not just New Age (it'd be more accurately called New Thought), or even particularly new.

Ok, but let's ignore Popper for now and say you want proof that LoA works. You have a theory, you just need to find an experiment which is rigourous, methodological and above all, repeatable. There are a few ways to go about it: self-reporting (you might as well call this anecdotal, its pretty unreliable in general but when you get someone like ALG or Paul, its harder to ignore), case studies (again like ALG or Paul, ie get a case study case to repeat an experiment, such as, say, attracting taxi cabs, compared to a normal wait time), and some form of larger experiment in which one would try to influence random events using a group of LoAers, ie, either trying to win some sort of contest and seeing if they win a disproportionate number of prizes, etc. There are, however, problems with each of these methods, the least of which being that certain thoughts could contaminate the results.

You don't even need to go that far, though, just start applying it in your life. When I was first getting into this, I was pretty resistant, too. Some things that helped me was reading The Power of Now, starting to meditate and then starting to intend specific things. I also started to keep a journal of odd coincidences or when things in the outside world reflected my thoughts. The biggest one for me has been finding my bike again, which I described in the Quantum Leap link in my sig.

There used to be a moderator, actually, who wrote on this issue from a philosophical perspective, Brutha maybe, I think ALG remembers him.

I just woke up so I hope all this makes sense. Long post, I guess I haven't written in a while now.

[MrsCogan]

Originally Posted by Angela

Hello, Mrs.Cogan. Welcome to you and your Newcomer Mandates! I don't begrudge you your point of view, but I'd like to let you know that in fact, I don't have to decide what I want in life, I don't have to make goals and action plans, and I don't even have to get up off the couch and work for what I want! Some of my most fun and rewarding work is done on my couch, as a matter of fact.

same here. Obviously I was speaking metaphorically. And obviously you don't have to make goals, etc. but wishful thinking isn't a substitute for making goals.

You are very welcome to your belief in these requirements in your life, you may be right, and thank you for sharing them, but they have nothing to do with me and creating a life I love.

clearly it's a different viewpoint from yours. That's the value of discussion.

I would like to invite you to try on a communication style that generates a space of freedom, as opposed to the Bossy Boots Operational Method (Bossy Boots' motto: "I'm right and you're wrong!") . Just to see how it goes.

Lots of love,
Angela

I tend not to mince around and hint at what I think. I just out with it. I'm also of a very scientific bent which means that evidence is everything. Anecdote and wishing are nothing.

To say there is no objective reality invites magical thinking. In my [not so] humble opinion magical thinking is a waste of a powerful intellect. Thinking can affect doing and that's important. Otherwise the universe doesn't care what you think. It only "cares" what you do.

And in physics like repels like. Only opposites attract.

[Spiritual]

Originally Posted by MrsCogan

I'm also of a very scientific bent which means that evidence is everything. Anecdote and wishing are nothing.

People who always want scientific assurance of something to work always make me laugh! Makes me think of the time where people believed the earth was flat as a pancake. They were seeing that it was flat, so ofcourse it was flat (how's that for evidence?). They even laughed at the folks who said the planet was round!

Oh wait, was that another anecdote?

[cylon]

I'm going to have to add "Bossy Boots" to my everyday vocabulary. Can't wait for the right opportunity to arise.

[dancer]

Originally Posted by cylon

I'm going to have to add "Bossy Boots" to my everyday vocabulary. Can't wait for the right opportunity to arise.

Be careful what you ask for...