LoA - action or no action??

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Max Power

Yes, I'm not saying don't use emotion to enhance focus and intention, but realise it's a tool that can aid in creation, it's not creative by itself.

I've manifested many things with simple thought and no emotion, so the process of manifestation is not dependant on emotion, if it was then we couldn't manifest without emotion, but you do that everyday.

Max

That's weird I was just reading your last post on CC and clicked in here right as your post came up.

I am noticing creation without emotion as well. Like, I'll think of someone and BOOM they are there. The other day it was a slow morning, and I wanted some work to do, so I almost asked my co-worker for an assignment but thought "hey it's too early, give him a while" and he just walks over and puts it on my desk.

A couple days ago, I was writing out my intentions (It's several paragraphs) and had the tv on. Several times, the phrases I wrote just a few moments later would be said word for word on the tv. Then later I re-read one of my journal entries, and as I was reading one of the sentences I wrote, the tv said the exact same sentence, while I was reading it. And it was about creating your destiny. Freaked me out.

I don't know Max. I can see it happening. But it's so weird. As I let go it just happens more and more. My reality has definitely been changing since I just started discussing this stuff with you a few months ago. Part of me says, "there is no way in hell this is happening like this" but it is. Just now wanted to hear the name of someone I care about. Knew it was going to come on this program. Not a common name. Twenty seconds later, hear the name. There's coincidence, then there's this.

Just getting used to it I guess. A baked noodle have I.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by cylon

That's weird I was just reading your last post on CC and clicked in here right as your post came up.

I am noticing creation without emotion as well. Like, I'll think of someone and BOOM they are there. The other day it was a slow morning, and I wanted some work to do, so I almost asked my co-worker for an assignment but thought "hey it's too early, give him a while" and he just walks over and puts it on my desk.

A couple days ago, I was writing out my intentions (It's several paragraphs) and had the tv on. Several times, the phrases I wrote just a few moments later would be said word for word on the tv. Then later I re-read one of my journal entries, and as I was reading one of the sentences I wrote, the tv said the exact same sentence, while I was reading it. And it was about creating your destiny. Freaked me out.

I don't know Max. I can see it happening. But it's so weird. As I let go it just happens more and more. My reality has definitely been changing since I just started discussing this stuff with you a few months ago. Part of me says, "there is no way in hell this is happening like this" but it is. Just now wanted to hear the name of someone I care about. Knew it was going to come on this program. Not a common name. Twenty seconds later, hear the name. There's coincidence, then there's this.

Just getting used to it I guess. A baked noodle have I.

Observation is creation, not passive witnessing, so when you think of something, you're noticing it, observing it and therefore creating it. That's why people keep getting stuff they say they don't want.......they are simply creating through observation and it just so happens the thing they are observing is no good, hence the creation is no good.

Max

[cylon]

Thanks Max, I'm going to dwell on this awhile.

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by Max Power

Yes, I'm not saying don't use emotion to enhance focus and intention, but realise it's a tool that can aid in creation, it's not creative by itself.

I've manifested many things with simple thought and no emotion, so the process of manifestation is not dependant on emotion, if it was then we couldn't manifest without emotion, but you do that everyday.

Max

I have to agree, many if not most of the things I notice being attracted to me are from a 'neutral' place, I think the reason for that is the lack of attachment. Usually if I have a lot of emotion invested it is because the outcome is very important to me, when that is the case I tend to engage in "negative visualization" as I worry about the outcome. Some of the fastest manifestations I have experienced were things that were not 'life or death' but just casually 'wished' for and then they showed up. Another thing I've noticed is that things that I like show up without visualizing or anything. I'm an audio buff and recently I've just happened to be at the right place to get some very good deals on a few things and actually get some great stuff free. I suppose I did all the "wanting" a long time ago and now it's just part of who I am at this moment in time.

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

^ Nope. Honestly? It was among the most perfect intentions I ever put out. You see, my actual "intention" was just sitting down and honestly saying how I wanted each area of my life to be (I have 13 areas), and I put down the traits I wanted in the other person, while also noting what I could give. And then totally detached from it. You see, it wasn't a priority at all for me to do that then, so while I realized I might do that stuff at some point, but not now so I just put it out of my head. A little while later (about a month or so) I met her.

Ok, so this is in direct conflict with what The Secret says to do. Maybe people like me are trying too hard because we are instructed by the experienced people (in The Secret anyway) to keep focusing every day and every moment of every day on the thing we want. I tried to follow The Secret. They tell you you have to focus on it, visualize every day what you want, feel good about it, like you already have it, dwell on it, really want it ok, I have been doing that, because that is what it says on The Secret, which is all I have had to go by at this point and it is here with me, so any time I forget what to do, it is at the tip of my fingers, I can watch it again. Now I am being told, no, don't want it too much, just think the thing on one day and in a month you'll have it, don't take any action, take some action...I can't even well imagine that I could obtain something that I wasn't passionate about having.

At this point, I don't know what is what, LoA just looks like a free-for-all, because all experienced people just say all contradicting things and evidently if you don't intend something in just the perfect way and perfect attitude (whatever that is!! ), you are going to suffer, even if you get what you intended, in which case, I can just do the suffering, get the usual, usually sick mutation of I really wanted and skip all the wasted energy and time focusing, visualizing and meditating for it, because that is pretty much what I have been doing all my life anyhow .

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

Ok, so this is in direct conflict with what The Secret says to do. Maybe people like me are trying too hard because we are instructed by the experienced people (in The Secret anyway) to keep focusing every day and every moment of every day on the thing we want. I tried to follow The Secret. They tell you you have to focus on it, visualize every day what you want, feel good about it, like you already have it, dwell on it, really want it ok, I have been doing that, because that is what it says on The Secret, which is all I have had to go by at this point and it is here with me, so any time I forget what to do, it is at the tip of my fingers, I can watch it again. Now I am being told, no, don't want it too much, just think the thing on one day and in a month you'll have it, don't take any action, take some action...I can't even well imagine that I could obtain something that I wasn't passionate about having.

At this point, I don't know what is what, LoA just looks like a free-for-all, because all experienced people just say all contradicting things and evidently if you don't intend something in just the perfect way and perfect attitude (whatever that is!! ), you are going to suffer, even if you get what you intended, in which case, I can just do the suffering, get the usual, usually sick mutation of I really wanted and skip all the wasted energy and time focusing, visualizing and meditating for it, because that is pretty much what I have been doing all my life anyhow .

Bitsy,

You're right, there's so much info, so many opinions, advice, my way, your way, his way, this guru, that guru, my program, his seminar, that book, this proven technique.

LoA, IM, CM, polarity, mystics, NLP, HYT, EMT, ELP, EST, BUM..........it's all bullshit.

All I can say is that you are trying to learn from your own creations.

It's like you already know the answer, but play a sick trick on yourself to not know and then have to seek it out in an annoying game of daily denial.

I can tell you who I think you are and what I think is going on, but that may probably make it worse, so I won't.

Max

[RT Wolf]

The underlying principle behind visualizing and emotion and all that is this:

Wanting + Believing (or expecting, or Allowing) = Manifestation

Say you need a total of 5 to have manifestation. Your believing is low, like a 1 cause you don't think it'll happen or you're just a very resistant person, so you have make your wanting really high, say a 4 by putting in a lot of time visualizing and getting your emotions going, etc. However, if your believing is high, like a 5 (which is the state Max Power is talking about), then a simple want of 1 gets it through. Allowing/letting go of resistance is a major part of manifestation but one that isn't normally mentioned. Feeling good also reduces resistance, as does acceptance and peace. That's why I recommend some basic spiritual work, like The Power of Now, because it will help give you a greater sense of peace. It may not be the power of now, but just some other spiritual work that resonates with you and causes you to feel peaceful.

You really would do well to look up other sources of info on IM.

[aabbcc]

Originally Posted by jeff3

I have to agree, many if not most of the things I notice being attracted to me are from a 'neutral' place, I think the reason for that is the lack of attachment. Usually if I have a lot of emotion invested it is because the outcome is very important to me, when that is the case I tend to engage in "negative visualization" as I worry about the outcome. Some of the fastest manifestations I have experienced were things that were not 'life or death' but just casually 'wished' for and then they showed up. Another thing I've noticed is that things that I like show up with visualizing or anything.

This is how it works for me, too. It just seems to work better if I put out the intention and then forget about it ... it is so easy for me to get lost in negative thoughts otherwise. Last week, I was walking on the beach and it occurred to me that every intention I have deliberately sent out into the Universe in the past couple of months has manifested. I can't tell you how incredible that feels ... like I have discovered the secret of life.

Re: the last sentence in the quote ... I had to laugh when I read that because it's been happening to me as well. A song I really like popped into my head one day and I thought to myself, I love that song, it makes me feel so good! And now that song is playing on the radio a lot and it isn't even current.

[RT Wolf]

That sounds pretty much like my experience, as well, but may I suggest a word for that? Peace.

You are simply at peace with the thing, whether it manifests or not, you are at peace and unattached. Just like you are at peace with, say, a rock beside you. It just is and you accept it.

IMO that's the state the Sedona Method goes for, one of peace. Peace comes from Acceptance.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

That sounds pretty much like my experience, as well, but may I suggest a word for that? Peace.

You are simply at peace with the thing, whether it manifests or not, you are at peace and unattached. Just like you are at peace with, say, a rock beside you. It just is and you accept it.

IMO that's the state the Sedona Method goes for, one of peace. Peace comes from Acceptance.

This all makes sense to me, and I agree because I've experienced it. But this discussion on emotion is relevant because I'm struggling with the idea of having a strong desire and not caring if you have it at the same time. I guess the more at peace you are, the less you need things to be a certain way?

That being said I have been practicing acceptance. For the most part it's working for me very well, although there are some things I am still extrememely emotionally involved in and am worried they won't happen (which is creative).

[cdn2wheeler]

Took a brief look through the web page on the Sedona Method and found this:

The two types are, one, action to attract your goal and, two, taking action without wanting anything back in return. Most of us act only for ourselves or those we care about. However, it is important to take both types of action.

(emphasis added)

Tends to lend credence to the notion that action of some sort is necessary.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by jeff3

"negative visualization"

Yeah, what the hell? Why would someone do that to themselves? "Let's imagine really bad things happening, and react to those bad visions like they are real right now, over and over again, for years. This should be interesting."

It's perplexing but I've been doing it for 30 years too.

Not good.

[RT Wolf]

Originally Posted by cylon

This all makes sense to me, and I agree because I've experienced it. But this discussion on emotion is relevant because I'm struggling with the idea of having a strong desire and not caring if you have it at the same time. I guess the more at peace you are, the less you need things to be a certain way?

That being said I have been practicing acceptance. For the most part it's working for me very well, although there are some things I am still extrememely emotionally involved in and am worried they won't happen (which is creative).

Detachment or Desire?

HTH. I found The Law of Detachment in Seven Spiritual Secrets of Success also helpful, I think there's a link to it in that thread. Bottom line was I learned to let go and trust.

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by cylon

Yeah, what the hell? Why would someone do that to themselves? "Let's imagine really bad things happening, and react to those bad visions like they are real right now, over and over again, for years. This should be interesting."

It's perplexing but I've been doing it for 30 years too.

*phew*

And here I thought I was the only one that was doing that..!

Funny this should come up, because the last 48 to 72 hours have been, well, uh, difficult on a number of levels for a whole bunch of reasons. This process has been cascading into and through me repeatedly, and try as I might it just isn't something that I can grit my teeth and white-knuckle my way to eliminating it. Gah...

[cylon]

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

Detachment or Desire?

HTH. I found The Law of Detachment in Seven Spiritual Secrets of Success also helpful, I think there's a link to it in that thread. Bottom line was I learned to let go and trust.

Thanks for the link. What's HTH?

[cylon]

cd--itsn't it crazy? And what's worse is just about everyone does it so we think it's normal and healthy. What's normal and healthy about imagining horrible scenarios over and over? They aren't even real! But we can make them real. But they don't have to be.

So far one of the best things I've found to help me with this is the Power of Now, don't know if you've read it but you may find it useful.

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by cylon

cd--itsn't it crazy? And what's worse is just about everyone does it so we think it's normal and healthy. What's normal and healthy about imagining horrible scenarios over and over? They aren't even real! But we can make them real. But they don't have to be.

So far one of the best things I've found to help me with this is the Power of Now, don't know if you've read it but you may find it useful.

Yea, I know, it's monumentally insane when you think about it.

If there was someone in my life that continually chattered at me the way my own internal dialogue harangues me, I'd tell him to take a long walk off a short pier. But for some reason I accept this internal b!tching as somehow just part of who I am.

WTF is that all about? Makes no sense whatsoever...

I read Tolle's book a couple of years ago and then lent it to someone, then it promptly disappeared. Time to get another copy.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by cdn2wheeler

If there was someone in my life that continually chattered at me the way my own internal dialogue harangues me, I'd tell him to take a long walk off a short pier. But for some reason I accept this internal b!tching as somehow just part of who I am.

I'm reading it for the second time. Before I learned about this, I became very familiar with the concept of the Judge, which is your inner chatterbox who won't shut up (the person you think is YOU). Not to keep throwing books out, but there is a book called the Four Agreements, it's very simple but goes into the Judge and how it works against you. It was a real eye opener for me. For where you're at right now, it may be something that could help. The key is to be aware of what's going on, and learning to distinguish that voice from the real You.

[RT Wolf]

Originally Posted by cylon

Thanks for the link. What's HTH?

Hope this helps. In general you can google most abbreviations and add "abbreviations" to it, like "hth abbreviations".

You're welcome. And yes, I agree with both you, it is insane. Even outside of an IM context, the way most of us talk to ourselves is just ridiculous. I laugh when I catch myself thinking to myself like that sometimes, cause its so funny. We claim we don't want pain but keep creating it.

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by cylon

Yeah, what the hell? Why would someone do that to themselves? "Let's imagine really bad things happening, and react to those bad visions like they are real right now, over and over again, for years. This should be interesting."

It's perplexing but I've been doing it for 30 years too.

Not good.

I think it stems from a lack of faith ,then the error reinforces itself and 'trains' us to expect bad outcomes. Example: I desire to give a good speech- I visualize everything going great, great delivery, great response ect.... / then I begin to worry ( because I doubt my visualized outcome) , what if they don't like me?, what if I choke?, what if I just stand up there and turn red? .
Outcome: my fear projections win out, it goes horribly, now I begin to think ...this doesn't work- I try again, but with "this doesn't work" running in the background, repeat over and over = trained to fail.

[cylon]

Steve had a good audio about this topic, imagining bad scenarios. Think it's time to listen to it again.

[qed]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

At this point, I don't know what is what, LoA just looks like a free-for-all, because all experienced people just say all contradicting things and evidently if you don't intend something in just the perfect way and perfect attitude (whatever that is!! ), you are going to suffer, even if you get what you intended, in which case, I can just do the suffering, get the usual, usually sick mutation of I really wanted and skip all the wasted energy and time focusing, visualizing and meditating for it, because that is pretty much what I have been doing all my life anyhow .

Since so many people talk about it, and everyone puts a spin on it based on their own beliefs, choice of terminology etc, it gets confusing.

Listen to this podcast. It is rather simple I think:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...t-005-beliefs/

[qed]

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

Detachment or Desire?

HTH. I found The Law of Detachment in Seven Spiritual Secrets of Success also helpful, I think there's a link to it in that thread. Bottom line was I learned to let go and trust.

I think "detachment from the specific way a desire can/should manifest" is the goal. Not detachment from whether the desire can/should manifest or not... You let go of the specifics, but hold onto the desire.

The optimal specifics will eventually reveal themselves and at that point, you gotta walk the path. And in some cases, you might have to try a whole bunch of different paths -each of which representing a specific mental change required to reach the optimal path- before you come across the optimal one...

[torilink]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

Ok, so this is in direct conflict with what The Secret says to do. Maybe people like me are trying too hard because we are instructed by the experienced people (in The Secret anyway) to keep focusing every day and every moment of every day on the thing we want. I tried to follow The Secret. They tell you you have to focus on it, visualize every day what you want, feel good about it, like you already have it, dwell on it, really want it ok, I have been doing that, because that is what it says on The Secret, which is all I have had to go by at this point and it is here with me, so any time I forget what to do, it is at the tip of my fingers, I can watch it again. Now I am being told, no, don't want it too much, just think the thing on one day and in a month you'll have it, don't take any action, take some action...I can't even well imagine that I could obtain something that I wasn't passionate about having.

At this point, I don't know what is what, LoA just looks like a free-for-all, because all experienced people just say all contradicting things and evidently if you don't intend something in just the perfect way and perfect attitude (whatever that is!! ), you are going to suffer, even if you get what you intended, in which case, I can just do the suffering, get the usual, usually sick mutation of I really wanted and skip all the wasted energy and time focusing, visualizing and meditating for it, because that is pretty much what I have been doing all my life anyhow .

I think that one point to look at here is how do you feel when you already have something you wanted - do you keep thinking about how much you desire to have something you possess? no, of course not.

so I'd say this is one error on the part of the "Secret" people -

In the book "Resurrection" by Neville Goddard he discusses that in the old testament, the meaning of the seventh day - the true meaning of a day of rest is that after the "Work" of desiring & visualizing and assuming the State of Having that which we desire, we must also then rest in the assurance we already possess that which we desire.

This, according to him, is the sabbath - it is that point between the desire and the manifestation, which we rest in our belief that although we do not "See" it with our senses, it is there already. It is a state of allowing, because we cannot continue to desire or want what we already possess, so we are "Resting" from the work of creation.

I don't know if I necessarily prescribe to his trying so hard to make it biblical, but I think he is on point about the resting in the assurance of the manifestation. When we believe it is so, we move from the work of creation into the peace of fulfillment.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

So which is it? Action or no action?

It's action and no action, depending on the perspective.

Consider that what you are perceiving is generated moment to moment.
I repeat. It's generated moment to moment.

Common incorrect knowledge is that what you are perceiving is generated in the past.

This is quicksand where one sinks deeper and deeper.
Why?

Because All power is in the Now. All choice happens in the now, not in the past.