Contradiction LoA

[toolbaree]

Allah (the Only God) says in His Holy Book in Shawra Chapter: [49] To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. He creates what He wills (and plans). He bestows (children) male or female according to His Will (and Plan), [50] Or He bestows both males and females, and He leaves barren whom He will: for He is full of Knowledge and Power.

From this verse we know for a fact that couples are into three groups in terms of offspring:
1. Group has either boys or girls offspring
2. Group has mixed; boys and girls
3. Group has neither (infertile forever)

We also acknowledge that no couple on this earth wants not to have babies! We also see that infertile people seeks every medical advice possible to be able to breed. Some however remain infertile and ends up having no babies at all. Similarly, those with male or female offspring would wish that they have mixed.

How do you explain the law of attraction impact here? Did the infertile people intend to be barren? Did the people with one sex only intend to be so?

I could not figure out how the LoA works here! Allah stated clearly in the Holy Qurarn that this the way it’s.

Your comments are highly appreciated. Please comment Steve P.

[Akashic_Librarian]

toolbaree you are making the assumption the Quran is correct, Allah exists, and that reality is Objective.

ALL unproveable assumptions.

The truth is, as long as you hold onto the limiting belief of Allah then the contradiction will exist for ever. They cannot be reconciled.

Its up to you to decide.

[cdn2wheeler]

You're proceeding from some potentially false assumptions:

Originally Posted by toolbaree

We also acknowledge that no couple on this earth wants not to have babies!

There isn't one couple of the planet that chooses to remain childless? Not one? I personally know more than one couple that had already made that decision to remain childless, so the assumption is simply incorrect.

Second assumption:

Originally Posted by toolbaree

To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth.

Maybe. Maybe not. We don't really know.

Third assumption:

Originally Posted by toolbaree

Allah stated clearly in the Holy Qurarn that this the way it’s [sic].

Again, maybe or maybe not. That statement may be in the Qurarn (I'll defer to you on that because I'm not familiar with it) but that doesn't necessarily mean that the statement is true.

[toolbaree]

Ok! what about people who wants children but they can not. By the way, we Muslim have no doubt about the trueness of Holy Quran.

[Akashic_Librarian]

Well us Atlantians have no doubt about the truth of the Ancient Tome of the Spaghetti Monster...it doesn't make it any more true now does it.

I have learned that it is an effort in futility should I try to argue with a religious person about their religion. Surfice it to say frankly I think your beliefs are ridiculous. They lead only to death, hatred, pain and confusion. If you want to live a better life remove the cloak of delusion and see whats really out there.

Until then, you will not read anything I say. Instead you will just block me off...frankly I don't care. I am out of this conversation before I say something stupid.

[Lola]

toolbaree - I highlighted portions of your posts which IMO provide the answer to your question within the parameters of your belief system.

Originally Posted by toolbaree

Ok! what about people who wants children but they can not. By the way, we Muslim have no doubt about the trueness of Holy Quran.

Originally Posted by toolbaree

Allah (the Only God) says in His Holy Book in Shawra Chapter: [49] To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. He creates what He wills (and plans). He bestows (children) male or female according to His Will (and Plan), [50] Or He bestows both males and females, and He leaves barren whom He will: for He is full of Knowledge and Power.

The childless couples are manifesting a God that exists outside of and separate from them, who controls all things "according to his will". Therefore, their childlessness is not their doing but the will and action of God. They may desire to have children, but the desire to believe the Holy Quran is much greater. Therefore they have abdicated any influence in their own lives.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by toolbaree

We also acknowledge that no couple on this earth wants not to have babies!

Danger Man and I are a couple on this earth who want not to have babies.

By the way, toolbaree, we don't call ourselves "barren," we call ourselves, "child-free"! Every once in awhile we look around at our wonderful life and we do the "Yay! We don't have kids!" dance.

The gods punish us for this attitude by sending children into our paths every chance they get. For some reason, kids can't get enough of us; they think we're magic beings. It's just like people who are allergic to cats.

[munish]

Originally Posted by Angela

Danger Man and I are a couple on this earth who want not to have babies.

By the way, toolbaree, we don't call ourselves "barren," we call ourselves, "child-free"! Every once in awhile we look around at our wonderful life and we do the "Yay! We don't have kids!" dance.

The gods punish us for this attitude by sending children into our paths every chance they get. For some reason, kids can't get enough of us; they think we're magic beings. It's just like people who are allergic to cats.

Population of the Earth suggests that we dont need anymore babies. It is already overpopulated.Why not live a life without babies?

[munish]

Originally Posted by toolbaree

We also acknowledge that no couple on this earth wants not to have babies!

Your comments are highly appreciated. Please comment Steve P.

Who told you?

People want to have babies ,so that they can continue in the form of their family after death.It is all about continuity after death.

[Sam988]

toolbaree, it will be very hard for us to help you. At least while you have this set of beliefs of yours.

[Jennihul]

If a person will only look at the world through the filters of their own beliefs, other cultures look very very strange, sometimes.

But this works both ways. So no one should be berating anyone here. Nor their beliefs.


Jennifer

[toolbaree]

Those who want not to have babies are exceptions any way! I just got a baby after nine years of marriage- How do you explain this? Did I intend not to have babies until the year ninth? - Certainly not

[Angela]

It's true. I am exceptional! Thank you for the compliment.

Congratulations on your new baby.

[toolbaree]

Thanks Angela

[Angela]

Originally Posted by munish

People want to have babies ,so that they can continue in the form of their family after death.It is all about continuity after death.

Is that true??? I thought it was because they smelled so good.

[Rose of Cairo]

toolbaree, I think it depends on your belief system. Being a vibrational match for your intentions isn't enough. They can only manifest if they are in accordance with your beliefs.

In your reality all couples want to have babies. In your reality there are couples who want to have babies and have none. In your reality, there is Allah, arbitrarily deciding who has children and who doesn't. So, in your reality, yes, Allah is more powerful than people's intentions and the LoA cannot work to have children.

That's your reality.

In my reality the exception are couples who want to have children. (I don't) In my reality there is no couple who wants children but has no children either. One couple I know couldn't have biological children, so they adopted a few. That's all, no problem. In my reality there is no God more powerful than the Loa. So, you see, in my reality the LoA always works

You can choose your belief system.

[toolbaree]

Dear Akashic,
Since I was born, my operating system has been Islam and it will continue as is as long as I live. Now, I am not saying anything about your religion or my religion .... and I am not in a position to say so. I wish that you turn to Christian priests and preachers who change thier operating system by converting to Islam then and only then you can judge ... Check this Islam Always Tomorrow Yesterday Today.
Thanks for your comments

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by toolbaree

Dear Akashic,
Since I was born, my operating system has been Islam and it will continue as is as long as I live. Now, I am not saying anything about your religion or my religion .... and I am not in a position to say so. I wish that you turn to Christian priests and preachers who change thier operating system by converting to Islam then and only then you can judge ... Check this Islam Always Tomorrow Yesterday Today.
Thanks for your comments

If you are devoted to Islam, why do you ask questions here? Doesn't Islam, like all major religions, purport to have all the answers necessary for life? The fact that you are seeking outside your 'operating system' tells me it must not satisfy your needs, Or, you are just rocking the boat here. If you are truly seeking knowledge you will have a difficult time grafting the liberating ideas found here onto the authoritarian and oppressive ideology found in your religion. In other words, you cannot pour any more into a full cup. Empty your cup first, then ask.

[Frans]

Originally Posted by jeff3

If you are devoted to Islam, why do you ask questions here? Doesn't Islam, like all major religions, purport to have all the answers necessary for life? The fact that you are seeking outside your 'operating system' tells me it must not satisfy your needs, Or, you are just rocking the boat here. If you are truly seeking knowledge you will have a difficult time grafting the liberating ideas found here onto the authoritarian and oppressive ideology found in your religion. In other words, you cannot pour any more into a full cup. Empty your cup first, then ask.

Excellent remarks (and advice!).

[toolbaree]

I do not like assumptions - get clarification first then ..

[Akashic_Librarian]

toolbaree, your trying to join a Grand Prix race with a ford fiesta...what you have just isn't good enough, it might be fine for certain types of journeys, but the fact is, the LoA is the Grand Prix of life, and Ford Fiestas just arn't the right vehicle for the track. So you won't be able to race at all...

[toolbaree]

Thanks. Thanks again for the analogy. I do not want to switch this to a religious discussion but since you brought this up, I will. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to tell you that my religion is the fastest growing religion in the world. So, your analogy need to be revisited.
In terms of LoA, we believe in it too but to a certain degree, not to the degree to ignore the will of Allah, “The only God”. For example, our Prophet (Peace be Upon Him) told us to not tell our dreams if they are not what we like because of we do speak them out, they could occur. This may be explained as something to do with LoA. Our base believe however is that if such thing occurs, it would be something that have been already (recorded) and decided by Allah to happen.
Going back to my original post, Allah may decide to deprive certain people from children forever. The way you justify this, LoA or something else is just like working on the margin.

Other people mentioned something about the quality of Islam and I am saying to them that whatever bad stuff you mentioned are falsified statements. Islam tells us so many things that other people are desperately searching for. LoA, life after death, right spiritual routine, relationships with self and others, good and bad dead, and the list continues. I am trying to take your hands to light, so please visit Islam Always Tomorrow Yesterday Today to learn from a Texan man who willingly has changed his operating system to Islam after he realized the true reality and discovered the real purpose of life. Go a head and clear all assumptions and doubts. He will help you debug your believe system as he has been helping thousands of people around the glope to identify and clear all the bugs they have. You will never regret if you do. Promise!

[Parthon]

Beliefs though will always limit you, no matter how good they are. It's what belief does, the fundamental purpose of a belief is to limit. If you believe that stealing is bad, and you believe you should avoid bad things, then you will avoid stealing.

Now when you have two conflicting beliefs, the one that is strongest will win. If you believe the will of Allah determines whether people have children, then that's how it is so. The people in your life didn't attract their circumstances because it's the will of Allah, and that's how reality will be for you because of your beliefs.

As for Islam, the pure scriptures are good, very good, but the religious organisation of Islam, as practiced by those many in the middle east, has been corrupted and is not the religion it should be. Much like the christians and their crusades and fundamentalism, the Jewish people and their current faith and even the hindu, muslims, buddhists, pretty much all religions.

Beliefs are not worth fighting over, we each have our own. The important is that we explore them and see those which limit us in ways we don't like and cull them from our lives in order to expand the expression and possibility of what we could be, compared to what we are. I think it's this that all religions are leading us to eventually, some of us just want to do it faster.

Much faster.

[jeff3]

The fact that you refer to your religion as an operating system indicates that deep down you know it is not the "ultimate truth" or "basis of reality", somewhere in your inner wisdom, that is obscured by your belief system, is the truth that will set you free..... that your beliefs create your reality (period). To refer to it as an operating system is very accurate, you were programmed, probably from birth to believe what you believe, It is not the will of allah, it is the will of your parents and their parents and so on. Your religious belief is determined by where you were born, not by allah.

Belief systems also have inertia and do travel in ways other than physical contact , most likely via the collective unconscious, which explains the times when people are infected with them from within, ie: god telling them to go to church, go buy a bible or koran ect... It is like a virus and your best chance of getting rid of it is to stop reading their literature, stop any observances associated with it , try not think at all about allah and the prophet guy you mentioned, instead, you should concentrate on finding the truth. Good luck, islam is a very difficult one to shake off, probably harder than fundy christianity, but if you are persistent you can escape.

[toolbaree]

Dread friends,

In this reply, I will address some of the comments mentioned above starting with an analogy. Thanks to Steve, I learned it from him! Not this particular one, but others where he make analogies to computing stuff.

Think of this for a moment! If a manufacture produce a very complex device and release it to the universe without an operating manual, what would happen? You would agree with me that other than the manufacture, no body else can operate it accurately. If someone tries his/her best to operate it without the manual, he/she is involved in a trail and error experiment that would definitely lead to some mistakes.

Going back to my original post containing the verse I quoted from a translation of the Holy Quran, the human operating manual. The fact that Allah deprived certain people from children, as the verse states, does not mean that someone would consider (intend for) his/her self (to be) an infertile person forever and remain without taking any action! Allah has kept this a secret so no one other than Him knows whether he or she is going to be among the infertile people. Prophet has also explained that Allah has made the sexual desire in people as magnetic tool that would drive people to continue breeding. In another situation, Prophet Mohammed also sates that we should seek children.
As I mentioned earlier, this is my ninth year of infertility … Did I intend not to have babies? Of course not otherwise why I’ve been searching all possible solution until my Lord lately has guided me to think of the IVF clinic where we received God’s help and got a lovely baby girl. Have I ever thought or intended of having babies thru IVF? Never is the answer! I never know that there is such procedure!

From the replies, I realized that some people are lacking knowledge in what Islam all about and some speak out of a vacuum. You should know that both Christianity and Islam came with same exact message, that’s to worship none but Allah, the Creator who sent the original Bible and the current human operating manual, the Quran. The earlier manual, the Bible, has been superseded by Quran, the new manual. The available versions of Bible are not the exact Bible came down from God; they suffer from a lot of manipulations. How many of Christians by the way memorize their operating manual? None is the answer while millions of Muslims, even non Arabic speaking, memorize their whole operating manual (600+ pages) from cover to cover! Why? Because they want to know how to operate themselves

Some people, especially Western, think that Quran and Hadeeths (Prophet’s sayings) are limiting Muslims’ thinking and creativity! The fact is that Quran and Hadeeths take care of the foundations; they are just like the traffic roads and signals. They are a source of guidance for Muslims. They set the paves and clear directions. These guidance tell us about problematic and dead end roads.
Take for example; Muslims know that legal marriage is the only way to have sexual relationships (manXwomnan) other than this is wrong! Let me take this to illustrate western views about Muslims. Non Muslim Westerns say poor Muslims; they are miserable and stupid, they do not enjoy life and have dating and get into sexual relationships without a marriage!
As Muslims, we profoundly belief that Islam will not erect a “non entry sign” to an area that has benefit for people. You may say that sexual relationships has.. I would say: yes but it’s temporarily.. the minute it goes, self blame and guilt feeling will last forever ..if you do not agree … can you explain the main causes of HIV cases that Western societies are suffering from! This is one example of thousands I can share with you if you like.

I wish that you turn to Islamic Chatroom - Learning islam - In Simple English Terms to see people chatting about Islam.. Muslims and non Muslims are welcome.

If you want to talk further about this , you can email me at toolbaree@gmail.com

Thanks to all and I ask Allah to give you all the guidance you need.

[jeff3]

I think the reason people so readily adopt religions is that it helps them make sense of the world, and in the case of the major religions ,they provide a complete "world view" , a way to make sense of everything. Since they are pretty subjective it is easy make them fit any situation, and where nothing really fits they just say ,"it is gods will" or "it is allahs will". It sounds like you caught islam at an early age and it is hard to cure, like most religious memes (mental viruses) it digs into every part of your life, the fact that you are spreading the virus means that it may be to late for you to recover but don't give up hope. Maybe you will discover that your religion is just the lens you view the world through, nothing more, then you will be free.


Thanks

I will hold the intention that infinite intelligence will lead you to freedom.

[toolbaree]

Originally Posted by jeff3

then you will be free.

I am already free! This is purely the misconception.

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by toolbaree

I am already free! This is purely the misconception.

If you are happy, I am happy for you.

[Akashic_Librarian]

OK Toolbaree you have a very good argument, however you offer no proof. You offer only anecdotal reasons as to why Islam is better....ok so it might be the fastest growing religion, that doesn't make it better. Just because Violent crime is increasing, does that make it the best crime?

Now my analogy relating to the grand prix was not about speed, it was more about compatability.

Unfortunately you can't and won't see that. You think Allah is the only true god, thus, everything else is wrong. In fact in a blatant contradiction, you say you went to an IVF clinic...a product of meticulous scientific research - I thank you - and yet you also shun anything scientific that argues against Allah. You vehemently implore the edict of Allah's supremacy, specifically (in this case) relating to fertility in couples...however if Allah made you infertile, then why did you go to an IVF clinic? Arn't you going againsts Allah's word?

Secondly, you clearly don't have any personal freedom, you think sex outside of marriage is wrong...why? Becuase Allah says so. Not because you had a bad experience, NOT because its scientifically proven to be better for you...simply because a book tells you that...

Where is the proof that the Quran is actually the true word of God? Didn't man write it? Do you have video evidence of Allah telling you that it is his word? Can you even give me any sort of testable hypothesis which is subject to rigorous scientific test, that can show me, without a shadow of a doubt, that God is actually real?

. . .

[toolbaree]

Thanks Akashick for keeping this on. May be my English is not helping me deliver my pointview clearly. Please turn to Islam Always Tomorrow Yesterday Today to learn about the words of Allah and how they came dwon. You sould keep in mind that Quran means something recited not to written, so it was in people hearts before it get to paper. Thanks